Being Savage # 52 - Koestler's 13th tribe

[JohnSavage]

Being Savage # 52

how to deal with disinfo agents, shills,and dupes
putting a bullet in a lizard
review of 13th tribe, koestler and sources

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=4939

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=4965

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=5019

[maz]

The was a good idea about making a list of criminals to handle the disinfo people.

[evanlong]

Interesting point about this story being, perhaps, a weapon to be used to line up the Jews and move them to Israel, where they would eventually be destroyed in a war. The Mazzini-Pike correspondences state that:

The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other.

- from http://www.threeworldwars.com/albert-pike2.htm

In other words, according to this, the Zionists would not be slated to survive WWIII.

[JohnSavage]

Interesting point about this story being, perhaps, a weapon to be used to line up the Jews and move them to Israel, where they would eventually be destroyed in a war. The Mazzini-Pike correspondences state that:

The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other.

- from http://www.threeworldwars.com/albert-pike2.htm

In other words, according to this, the Zionists would not be slated to survive WWIII.

or Jews who are considered from the line of Cain and not of "The house of Israel" and the House of Judah.

According to some sources

my next show will have some info on this.

chapter 6 of fomenko's work is very interesting, especially the lineage of 1-2 samuel, 1-2 kings and chronicles compared with the different epochs of history.
Fomenko compares the "Kings of Israel" and the "Kings of Judah" don't confuse the State and Jews of Israel with the tribes of Israel and Judah

Chapter 6

[rmstock]

Hello Savage,

After I listened to your audio, where you mentioned and verbatim read
from " The History of the Jewish Khazars" by D. M. Dunlop, I also
took my copy of Dunlop's book and found some amazing flaws
in Dunlop's research. Here's what i found and emailed to my smal
maillinglist :

Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 03:07:51 +0200 (CEST)
From: Robert M. Stockmann <stock@stokkie.net>
To: [list]
Subject: The Khazar Conversion to Judaism


Hi,

According Dunlop's "The History of the Jewish Khazars" [1], the
conversion to Judaism of the Khazars has been documented by
the Khazars themselves. From the index [1] page 281 we read :

Judaism: Khazar, x, 76, 86, Chap-
ters v and vi, passim (see also
under Khazars); Byzantine, 89,
125, 157, 169, 256; conversion
of "Meshech" to, 220

Checking on page 76 (Chapter IV, THE SECOND ARAB-KHAZAR WAR (722-737),
we read :

" For the events of 112/730 our narrative gains confirmation
once again from the Khazar side. The memory of the capture
of Ardabil appears to have been retained long afterwards. Ac-
cording to the Reply of Joseph, when the Jewish religion had
already been established among them, the King of the Khazars
was inspired to set up a place of worship, and for the purpose
of obtaining the necessary means undertook an expedition by
way of the Darial pass, into the country south of the mountains.
The principal objective of this expedition was Arbadil. The
Khazar returned with a treasure of gold and silver, and this
was dedicated and used for providing the furniture -- ark,
lamp-stand, table, etc.-- of a tabernacle on the Biblical model.
The Reply adds that these still existed (c. A.D. 960).{80}

{80} See Chapter VI."

Apparently there is a old document written by the Khazars themselves,
titled "The Reply of Joseph". Geee, did they already have email back
then? Sorry for my humor, but according the above quote it had more
todo with the "acquisition" of gold and silver, then the worship of
Yaweh inside their mobile tabernacles on horseback. Looking for "The
Reply of Joseph" inside Dunlop's index, we find that both a "Short" and
"Long Version" of "The Reply of Joseph" exist(ed) :

Reply of Joseph, 42ff., 76, 91, 94n.,
98n., 125, 132, 133, 139, 144ff.,
186n., 195, 208n., 240; Long
and Short Version of, 130ff.,
139ff., 146ff.; grandiloquent tone
of, 147; different Hebrew style
from Letter of Hasday, 148,
151ff.

... How about that eh? Going to page 130 we read :

page 130 :

" So much for the possibility of interpolation in the work of
Aqrish. If anyone thinks that the Khazar Correspondence was
first composed in 1577 and published in Qol Mebasser, the onus
of proof is certainly on him. He must show that a number of
ancient manuscripts, which appear to contain references to the
Correspondence, have all been interpolated since the end of the
16th century. This will prove a very difficult or rather an
impossible task.
When we try to get behind the printed editions of Qol
Mebasser, the results are not entirely satisfactory. The only
known manuscript containing both the Letter of Hasday and
the Reply of Joseph is in the library of Christ Church, Ox-
ford. {37} This manuscript presents a remarkably close similarity
to the printed text, as may be seen from Kokovtsov's edition
and as I have personally checked. It is not easy to say what
is the genetic connection between the two, but it is unlikely
that the manuscript, as has several times been suggested, is
actually a transcript of the printed text. Rather, as Kokovtsov
says, the manuscript served directly or indirectly as a source
of the printed text. But it has no claims to great antiquity.
Undated like the Christ Church manuscript is another in

{37} No. 193. Owing to the liberality of the Christ Church
authorities I was able to consult this valuable MS. not
only in the Bodleian but also in the Glasgow University
Library. Though collated once again by myself, the MS.
yielded little or nothing which had escaped Kokovtsov.

page 131:

"the Leningrad Public Library, {38} which contains along with
midrashic material a longer version of the Reply of Joseph
than is found in the Christ Church manuscript and the printed
text of Aqrish, but lacks the letter of Hasday. Attention was
directed to this manuscript by Harkavy, a most diligent student
of Khazar antiquities, in 1874, and hailed by him as the un-
doubted original of the previously known version. {39} Unfortu-
nately the Long Version of the Reply of Joseph passed to the
Leningrad library via Firkovitch, who had apparently acquired
it in Egypt in the sixties of last century. {40} This connection with
Firkovitch did not predispose investigators to regard it as an
undoubted relic of antiquity. It would appear, however, that in
this case we need not immediately suspect a forgery. Chwol-
son, who had examined it, states that the whole manuscript
is written in the same hand and there are no additions of any
kind. {41} It is supposed to date from the 13th century. {42} Unless
therefore this indication of date is completely wrong and
Firkovitch is responsible for the whole -- contrary to his usual
method of fabrication, which was to make alterations and ad-
ditions in authentic documents -- we probably have to reckon
with the Long Version as considerably older than the printed
text of Aqrish. Harkavy, in spite of his very critical attitude to
Firkovitch and his discoveries, had no hesitation in accepting
it as the original of the Short Version in Aqrish, as already said.
If the view of Harkavy, which for once coincides with Chwol-
son's, is not right, most people will agree with Kokovtsov's
cautious statement {43} that as basis for both versions there is
certainly the same original text, which is in general better
preserved in the Long Version.
That the Khazar Correspondence is a forgery of the 16th
century can scarcely be taken seriously in view of what has

{38} MS. Heb. 157 of the 2nd Firkovitch Collection.
{39} Measeph Niddahim, I, no. 8.
{40} Chwolson, Corpus, German ed., St. Petersburg 1882, 143, n. 6.
{41} Ibid., 520 (quoted similarly by Kokovtsov from the Russian ed.,
1884, 499)
{42} Ibid., 143 n. 6. {43} Op.cit., Introduction"

Anyone who had the slightest belief that Dunlop's work is a most solid
documented publication on the Khazars and their history, should think
again, as we are dealing here, only, with manuscripts originating from
the hands of Soviet Communist professors and researchers, where the
Oxford connection does not shine brightly for this University's
much admired reputation.

Best regards,

Robert
PS.
[1] The History of the Jewish Khazars
by D. M. Dunlop
Paperback: 293 pages
Publisher: Schocken; First edition (1967)
Language: English
ASIN: B000E3WIZS
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E3WIZS
--
Robert M. Stockmann - RHCE
Network Engineer - UNIX/Linux Specialist
crashrecovery.org stock@stokkie.net

[JohnSavage]

Thanks for the added info R.

I don't know if I would post my private details as you did, maybe an admin can help you remove it.

I only had a limited version of Dunlap's, so I read from J Bury's and Arthur's versions as well. They all sound the same after a while. But J Bury does state that the Khazar's did not practice circumcism and other intolerant Jewish customs. Which I found interesting.

[evanlong]

@ John Savage:

Are you familiar with the work of Barbara Aho? She contests the notion that the conspirators are Khazarian Jewish converts while maintaining that the conspiracy is Judeo-Masonic:

http://watch-unto-prayer.org/audio.html

[keeptruthfree]

I need more shows. I really sincerely like this show.
I'm considering listening to the whole thing again.
MORE! keep going.

I mean ALL the shows. To be clear,
I have listened to FIFTY-FIVE shows.

I ordered the four Anatoly Fomenko
"History: Fiction or Science?" that are available.

I also figured out how to make the first two books
that are available on Google Books
but in that weird non-PDF way
into PDFs if anybody wants them.

I already had the Koestler book.

[jai_mann]

@ John Savage:

Are you familiar with the work of Barbara Aho? She contests the notion that the conspirators are Khazarian Jewish converts while maintaining that the conspiracy is Judeo-Masonic:

http://watch-unto-prayer.org/audio.html

Man I'm halfway through the 1st audio on that site. I have to say it's quite good. I had been wondering about old european ties with regards to what is happening now. And the whole separation between the "synagogue of satan" and jews. Fritz Springmeir seems to have done some good work on this also. Now he sits in a Federal prison. Good times eh? I'll definitely listen to all of the audio as the ladies involved appear to have done good research.

[mgt23]

your idea of a list that would take out the leaders is gold. I have a post on deathflag.com for this.

[evanlong]

your idea of a list that would take out the leaders is gold. I have a post on deathflag.com for this.

Could you post a link for that?

[mgt23]

i'm trying to trace them as we speak. otherwise we will be just targeting the front men. i agree with punishing the collaborators using irony, but unless we get the people issuing the orders we will have made nil progress in the overall info war. when i have succeeded i will release the list for swarming in the public domain, until then it is not strategic to do so which is why i haven't. My next show will explore a possible avenue of tracing them. stay tuned.

[JohnSavage]

your idea of a list that would take out the leaders is gold. I have a post on deathflag.com for this.

It came to me in a dream. God spoke to me and told to pass it on.