Interview with Professor Shlomo Sand - Zionism (and anti-Semitism) is Stupid

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Interview with Professor Shlomo Sand - Gnostic Media Mars 2010

http://gnosticmedia.podomatic.com
http://gnosticmedia.podomatic.com/playe ... 4_55-07_00

This show is titled "Zionism (and anti-Semitism) is Stupid" and is being released on Monday, March 22, 2010. My interview (Jan Irvin) with Prof. Shlomo Sand was recorded on March 03, 2010.



This is yet another Gnostic Media controversial interview with Professor Shlomo Sand. Shlomo is currently Professor of History at Tel Aviv University in Israel; and has also taught at the University of California, Berkeley. His book, The Invention of the Jewish People, spent more than 19 weeks on Israel's bestseller list.

Shlomo and I got into it a little bit, and he attempted to use emotive accusations to thwart intelligent discussion instead of properly inquiring about the evidence. So, while occasionally the interview did get a little edgy, we still had a good interview and things turned around by the end. But it's my opinion that he's mistaken with regard to banker involvement in the dialectics to establish a Zionist state, their involvement in funding communism, and Rothschild power in international banking, which the following information seeks to prove.

The Trivium method with Gene Odening (podcast #49), and my interview on logical fallacies with Dr. Labossiere (podcast #62), are essential prerequisites to this interview.

I shared with Richard Grove of Tragedy & Hope magazine the interview earlier this week because this is his area of expertise. We can all thank Rich for writing the linked article which contains no less than 18 excellent primary and secondary references to the bankers and Rothschild and their involvement in the items mentioned above, which, during the interview, Shlomo dismissed the idea claiming that it was unfounded and "anti-Semitic". http://www.tragedyandhope.com/profiles/ ... iddle-east

List of references:

Facts are Facts, by Benjamin H. Freedman, 1954
The Revival of Israel: Rome and Jerusalem, the Last Nationalist Question, by Moses Hess, 1862
The House of Rothschild, 1934 Feature Film
1911 Encyclopedia Britannica entry on Rothschild
The House of Rothschild Volume 2: The World's Banker 1849-1999, by Niall Ferguson, 1998
The House of Rothschild Volume 1: Money's Prophets 1798-1848, by Niall Ferguson, 1998
The Warburgs by Ron Chernow, 1993
The House of Morgan, by Ron Chernow, 1990
Memoirs, by David Rockefeller, 2002
The Panic of 1907: Lessons Learned from the Market's Perfect Storm, by Robert Bruner and Sean Carr, 2007
Tragedy & Hope: A History of the World in Our Time, by Prof. Carroll Quigley, 1966
Trilaterals over Washington, by Antony C. Sutton, 1978
With No Apologies: The Personal and Political Memoirs of United States Senator Barry M. Goldwater, 1979
Fire in the Minds of Men: The Origins of Revolutionary Faith, by Dr. James H. Billington, 1980
The Anglo-American Establishment, by Carroll Quigley, 1981
The Lost Science of Money, by Stephen Zarlenga, 2002
The Tavistock Institute of Human Relations: Shaping the Moral, Spiritual, Political and Economic Decline of The United States of America, by Dr. John Coleman, 2005

We hope this article opens dialog and clears confusion regarding the historical evidence and, while Sand is correct that the Rothschilds were not Zionist, the evidence shows that they were instrumental in creating a Zionist dialectic - regardless of their own beliefs - because it profited them.

Rich's response to Shlomo's points is available at: http://www.tragedyandhope.com/profiles/ ... iddle-east



http://gnosticmedia.podomatic.com/playe ... 4_55-07_00

http://gnosticmedia.podomatic.com/player/web/2010-03-22T01_14_55-07_00

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Sand Storms the Middle East! World-Famous Israeli Professor Proclaims "Zionism is Stupid" in latest Interview- and not surprisingly- Ahmadinejad Agrees

Posted by Richard Grove on March 22, 2010 at 11:00pm

Richard Grove



Reconcilable Differences: If you Dream of Peace in the Middle East, Begin Here to Real-ize the Reality

Summary

During a recent interview, wherein Professor Shlomo Sand was being interviewed by a colleague of mine; I found myself witnessing a rare opportunity to take an apparent contradiction in history. As a result, herein I offer the data which helps to dissolve the illusions which are the root cause of these contradictions, thereby offering a unifying solution to the apparent schism. This article is an attempt to form a logical, reasonable, and objective response to 3 points asserted by Sand, which appear to be inaccurate; at least on the surface. (If you would like to download, print, or embed this article; please click here.)


The week before reviewing the interview with Sand, I had written down this precious gem


"Georg Wilhelm Hegel taught that you can take control of history by provoking crisis. This silences dissidents and surprises the enemy." John Taylor Gatto, interviewed by Gnostic Media Feb. 2010



Understanding what had been offered by Gatto, I added to it what I learned from Prof. Sand; the sum of which led me to pose a new hypothesis regarding potential peace in the Middle East:



If we can explore our fears and learn how to resolve contradictory logic; then we can liberate ourselves and others in the process, simply by sharing the results.


In order to precisely address the incendiary ideas of Zionism, anti-Semitism, and the other emotionally-charged topics contained in Prof. Sand's book, this article leverages a classical methodology of discerning certainty and a process of discovering meaning; and is presented in the style of a scientific experiment in communicative media.


Part 1: Background information on the topic of discussion.

Part 2: Transcript containing the apparent contradictions which form the basis for this article.

(found @ 38 min:56 sec of the interview)

Part 3: Analysis of the data collected, reconciliation of the apparent contradictions; and the formulation of a Conclusion.

You can listen to the entire Interview here ( http://gnosticmedia.podomatic.com/entry ... 4_55-07_00 ), and the extensive list of References can be found here (as well as at the end of this article)  http://www.tragedyandhope.com/profiles/ ... esponse-to .

Sample quote from the Interview

Jan Irvin



Jan Irvin: Is Judaism a Race or a Religion, and what do you say to those that claim that it is a Race?


Prof: Shlomo Sand: they are stupid, exactly like the anti-Semitics, I think the Zionists that thought in the past that Jewishness is a race, pure or not pure, are stupid- exactly like the anti-Semitics that thought that the Jewish are a Race. All my book is a kind of declaration, that Jewishness cannot be a Race, the origins of most of the Jews is not from Palestine... and most of the Jewish came from conversion.


Note that a few weeks prior to all of this, Irvin published this iconoclastic conversation, with a Rabbi who had presented Mahmoud Ahmadinejad with an award for his good will and outstanding relationship with Orthodox Jews living in Iran: "Against Zionism- An Interview with Rabbi Yisrel Dovid Weiss"; therein demonstrating Ahmadinejad to be anti-Zionist, not anti-Semitic.


Part 1. Purpose and Scope of this Article


Primary purpose: As the output of critical thinking and through the presentation of source material relevant to the topic; I seek to encourage the audience to consume the 18 reference sources used to formulate the experiment (which in practical application is itself this article). Publication of this article is a measure of stimulating a higher-level of awareness, communication, and mutual understanding on the subject matter; for the purposes of inspiring peace.


Secondary purpose: To inspire Professor Sand to expand his research and future books to include the information provided herein, which is complimentary to his claims. Moreover, there exists the further potential to resolve the apparent contradictions which appear in his interview (through the clarification of definition, addition of grammar, identification of fallacies, contradictions, and other uses of rhetoric which form the illusion of contradiction); revealing how the Hegelian dialectic has been used against all of us.



Background on the Author: Shlomo Sand, is currently Professor of History at Tel Aviv University in Israel; and has also taught at the University of California, Berkeley.

Shlomo Sand



Recently Sand was interviewed on the Gnostic Media Podcast; a common ground provided by host Jan Irvin to inspire academics, authors, and experts to share their research and provide the audience with Cognitive Liberty.
The Gnostic Media Podcast has a global audience of almost 200,000 participants, with its goal being to satiate the hunger of listeners and voracious readers alike; inspiring the group to sharpen each other through critical thinking and debate, rather than breaking each other through conflict.


Prof. Sand's book is a presentation of the invention of what he refers to as "the myth of the Jewish people having a common ethnic origin"; and is best illustrated in my opinion, by this quote:


"[a]t a certain stage in the 19th century intellectuals of Jewish origin in Germany, influenced by the folk character of German nationalism, took upon themselves the task of inventing a people "retrospectively," out of a thirst to create a modern Jewish people. From historian Heinrich Graetz on, Jewish historians began to draw the history of Judaism as the history of a nation that had been a kingdom, became a wandering people and ultimately turned around and went back to its birthplace." (Source: Shattering a 'national mythology' by Ofri Ilani, Haaretz, March 2008)


Background on: The Invention of the Jewish People by Shlomo Sand, 2009

About the book: "Shlomo Sand argues that most Jews actually descend from converts, whose native lands were scattered far across the Middle East and Eastern Europe."


"Shlomo Sand has written a remarkable book. In cool, scholarly prose he has, quite simply, normalized Jewish history. In place of the implausible myth of a unique nation with a special destiny – expelled, isolated, wandering and finally restored to its rightful home – he has reconstructed the history of the Jews and convincingly reintegrated that history into the general story of humankind. The self-serving and mostly imaginary Jewish past that has done so much to provoke conflict in the present is revealed, like the past of so many other nations, to be largely an invention. Anyone interested in understanding the contemporary Middle East should read this book." — Tony Judt

Tom Segev in Haaretz: "One of the most fascinating and challenging books published here in a long time."Jonathan Cook in The National: "Shlomo Sand's latest work has spent 19 weeks on Israel's bestseller list."Morgan Strong in Consortium News: "There has been no serious rebuttal to Sand's book, which has been a bestseller in Israel and Europe."Israel Bartal in Haaretz: a "learned, captivating study ... certainly worthy of a serious discussion".
Situational Background:
Having made myself familiar with Professor Shlomo Sand's recent book, titled: The Invention of the Jewish People; I had built up a great deal of respect for Sand's extensive research, and courageous proclamations of his findings despite the status quo. I agree for the most part with the conclusions reached in Sand's book, based on the evidence cited; and that upon which we do not agree, I readily admit my ignorance and thus recognize my need to invest more time in order to understand.

Observation

In listening to the raw-recording of Irvin's interview with Sand; I found myself in agreement with all but 3 points he asserted. These 3 points being related to, but outside the bounds of, Sand's book; it is my hope that readers (including Sand) will indulge themselves by reviewing the books (and the respective pages therein) listed at the end of this article.


The observation which led to the undertaking of the research (to clarify the apparent contradictions) arrived in the form of my surprise- to Sand's emotional reaction- in the face of Irvin's question regarding the Rothschild banking family.


It often occurs that when someone is apprised of information which contradicts that which they think they "know"; as a result of the cognitive dissonance which rushes in when we're adverse to taking in new information, that is when emotional reactions are given precedent over intellectual capacity to think before taking action. It happens to all of us, at one time or another; and keeping emotional reactions in-check by applying our intellectual capacity to learn, provides the solution.


To get to the root cause of what's being lost due to the misdirection, ad hominem attacks, and emotional delivery of Sand's claims; one must first try to understand that to which Sand is reacting, that being- the unknown- and over come the fear through a structured process of learning, critical thinking, and communication.

Collecting Data

Understanding that I do not know, and extending the benefit of the doubt to Prof. Sand; I went about exploring, assessing, and choosing the tools through which I could raise my level of understanding.


Having over 600 volumes in my library, I invested 20 minutes of my time, during which I pulled the 17 most relevant books (and one film) published between 1862 and 2007, which illustrate that Sand's assertions are not entirely accurate; with the intention of offering my findings to aid the audience in attaining a more-accurate, comprehensive, and objective perspective of this complex, murky, and emotionally charged subject matter.


During this process, I continually asked myself: "Would this reference/book be available to Sand, and if so; could it assist in communicating or explaining the apparent contradictions?"


Hypothesis

By providing credible and relevant references which clarify the points of contention identified within Prof. Sand's interview; a new perspective can be realized, from which observers can reconcile the apparent contradictions in exchange for a more comprehensive perspective.

Experiment


By inspecting the apparent contradictions for the purpose of discovering common ground; we can thereby discover the unity within the opposites, as a result of dissolving the illusion of their apparent contradiction.

Sand contradicts the facts which are widely available:


1. Prof. Sand asserts that the Rothschild Banking Family had no role as world-dominating financiers.2. Prof. Sand asserts that the Rothschilds were not Zionists, had no influence in the Balfour Declaration, and were not instrumental in the creation of the State of Israel.3. Prof. Sand reacts emotionally to Irvin's citations of historical references, and responds with the term "anti-Semitic" in an ad hominem attack; a defense mechanism often employed as a tactic to generate fear and intimidation, and to ward off an opponents questioning or further investigation of assertions.
Irvin doesn't consent to the tactic, and the questioning that followed led to doing a lot of homework on my end.

The irony which inspired me to formulate a formal response to these assertions can best be described from these two passages excerpted from Sand's book (pp. 268, 271):


"The broad Israeli historiography contains a good deal of apologetics excusing the presence of "biology" in the Zionist discourse, noting that this was a common fashion at the end of the nineteenth and first half of the twentieth century. True, many scientific publications, as much as daily newspapers and popular weeklies, carried articles that confounded heredity and culture, blood and national identity. The term "race" was frequently used by anti-Semites, but it was also used by the respectable press and in liberal and socialist circles. The Zionist thinkers and promoters who discussed theories of blood and race, the argument goes, did not really take them seriously, and certainly they could not have anticipated the horrific developments that these ideas would help bring about. But this contextual historical argument, though convenient, is far from accurate."


"If certain Jewish communities had distinctive qualities, they were due to history, not biology. The economic functions to which they were diverted gave rise to a specific subculture and concomitant linguistic markers. But modernization was slowly eroding the traditional Jewish separation and was integrating Jewish believers into the new national cultures. Thus, if the arguments of anti-Semitism were scientifically worthless, so, too, were those of the Zionist ideology that complemented them with similar reasoning." (emphasis added)


One can hardly blame Irvin for asking well-researched questions which are fully pertinent to the topic of conversation; having read not only Sand's book, but numerous others, in preparation for an interview of such magnitude.

Part 2: The Transcript

Partial Transcript of Gnostic Media podcast #070 with Prof. Shlomo Sand:


Jan Irvin: What do you know about the influence of the Rothschild family, pertaining to their involvement in the creation of World War I, the Balfour Declaration, and the subsequent creation of (the State of) Israel?


Prof. Shlomo Sand: (un-intelligible response)


Jan Irvin: Have you found any relationship between the banking family the Rothschilds and the...


Prof. Shlomo Sand: What is the Rothschilds?


Jan Irvin: The Rothschilds are a famous banking house, originally from Frankfurt Germany, that controls much of the world's economy today... and many historians argue that the Rothschilds played a large influence in...


Prof. Shlomo Sand: I don't know about this (un-intelligible). Really, I cannot express... I didn't hear about it, I don't know what you mean exactly. I am sorry.


Jan Irvin: Basically, the Rothschild family in the 1700's I believe, began a banking house that pretty much came to take over most of the world's monetary...


Prof. Shlomo Sand: You are speaking about the Rothschilds' House?


Jan Irvin: Yes.


Prof. Shlomo Sand: The Rothschilds?


Jan Irvin: Yes.


Prof. Shlomo Sand: No. First of all, it was one, they never dominate the world bankers. They never dominate. It's imagined, it's an anti-Semitic myth. They have a lot ... they had a lot of influence, it's true, they have agencies in London, in Paris, in Frankfurt, but that family is a very very important family, with a lot of money- they make a lot of money- but to compare them to the Rockefellers, for example, is um...


Jan Irvin: What I was getting at is that some historians argue that the (Rothschilds) had a large influence on England and the creation of the Balfour Declaration, which...


Prof. Shlomo Sand: No, no, I don't think that the Rothschilds were Zionists; first of all.


Jan Irvin: Hmm.


Prof. Shlomo Sand: You know, there were differences between the (Rothschild) family in Paris and the (Rothschild) family in London. No, no, I don't think that the Rothschilds are responsible for the Balfour Declaration in 1917. I think that its much more the interest of the British Israelism towards the end of the first world war, and their willing to dominate the Middle East. And I think it's also... if you are looking for an ideological component in the (Balfour) Declaration, I think the Protestant background of (Lord) Balfour played much more, than the Rothschild influence. You have to know, that the Rothschilds, basically, were not Zionists. You see, when Anselm (Rothschild)... I don't remember exactly the year, in think in '98, fixed a rendezvous with a Rothschild in Paris... Rothschild (in Paris) didn't want to help him (Amschel Rothschild in London). The Rothschilds wanted to push this wave of emigration from the East(ern European countries) to Palestine, but not in an Zionist ideological state at all. The Rothschilds, were not Zionists. Now, sometimes they could help other Jews, but mostly they didn't care a lot about the Jewish people... ...now there is in their family, one or two of them who are sympathetic with Zionism.


Jan Irvin: Right.


Prof. Shlomo Sand: but as a family, especially the (un-intelligible) branch of this family, wasn't at all Zionist, you have to understand, they were against Zionism.


Jan Irvin: Isn't one of the Rothschild family members on the back of the 500 shekel bill in Israel, as the King of Israel?


Prof. Shlomo Sand: No, I didn't see it... I didn't see... Rothschild?


Jan Irvin: Yes

...

Prof. Shlomo Sand: No, no, this is an anti-Semitic legend.


Jan Irvin: Really?


Prof. Shlomo Sand: It's an anti-Semitic legend, because you have to understand that... there is a street in Tel Aviv of the name of Rothschild, and some of (unintelligible) the more and more a few of the families are sympathetic to Zionism, but basically in the 19th Century, at the end of the 19th Century, the Rothschild Family was against Zionism.


Jan Irvin: Huh.


Prof. Shlomo Sand: It's not the Rothschild Bank that created Israel, it's the authentic movement, nationalist movement...


Jan Irvin: I'm looking at http://www.BankNotes.com at world bank notes, it's a website that has images of bank notes from all over the world; and I'm looking at one right here that shows Rothschild on the back of the 500 Shekel bill... it says "Baron Rothschild", right on the back.

Prof. Shlomo Sand: 500 shekel?

Jan Irvin: Yes.

Prof. Shlomo Sand: 500 shekel? I never see in my life a 500 shekel.

Prof. Shlomo Sand: By the way, not all the things on the internet are... you know?


Jan Irvin: Well, obviously, but this is coming from the website Bank Notes dot com... ...it's probably an uncommon denomination I would suspect.


Prof. Shlomo Sand: Or, it is an anti-Semitic site.




Part 3: The Analysis


Finding Certainty with the Trivium Method of Thinking Critically


1. Grammar / Knowledge (Who, What, When, Where): These are the facts of the matter or "basic knowledge" level. (i.e. Input)


2. Logic / Understanding (Why): The science of reasoning, understanding how the parts fit together. (i.e. Processing of Input)


3. Rhetoric / Wisdom (How): The presentation of information in the form of communication. (i.e. Output)


1.Grammar: Prof. Sand omits several pieces of grammar (or basic knowledge) in order to climb out to a perspective which (at first) denied any knowledge of Rothschild involvement in Zionism, the Balfour Declaration, and the subsequent creation of Israel.
2.Logic: When including the missing data (grammar), the contradictions in Prof. Sand's comments become apparent.
3.Rhetoric: Prof. Sand employs use of the term anti-Semite as a defense, which is on the surface a misnomer; and in its emotional deployment in response to Irvin's line of questioning, it is leveled as a Red Herring to further obscure the Why of the situation. This failure to give a rational meaning to the term Semite proves to play out as a use of rhetoric relying on numerous fallacies.
It will be left up to the reader to decide as to whether it is the purpose of Prof. Sand to obscure and confuse the audience with regard to the three points of contention; or if it is nothing more than a miscommunication which leads to progress. In any case, that is not the point of this examination of this situation; we are seeking certainty pertaining to the origins of Zionism and anti-Semitism, in the hopes of understanding the ongoing conflict in the Middle East.


The Tyranny of (Misunderstood) Words: The Issues of Grammar and Definition


First, since the axis of controversy is Prof. Sand's use of the term "anti-Semitic", let's do a bit of research to ensure we understand what a Semite is; before we go assuming we understand what its opposite, or "anti" meaning is.


Semite: 1) an Arab. Source: 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica.


That's ironic, because it seems the only group pitted against the Arabs are the Zionists; which in point of fact would make Zionists the (most notable) of the anti-Semitic groups.


Referencing another popular book, The Holy Bible also provides what we'll refer to as "traditional Biblical, speculative anthropology", and therein presents us with this summary of the origin of the Shemites, or what we today call Semites; and it goes something like this:


The 3 sons of Noah are said to have provided the racial line to repopulate the earth after the deluge. Ham (according to The Holy Bible) peopled black Africa; Japheth, Eur-Asia; and Shem, the nations of the Near East. The [mythical] bloodlines of Shem were developed in North Africa and the Near East as dark complected brunettes. The post-Noahide prophet, Abraham, is the origin of the desert monotheistic traditions, to which both the racial Hebrews and Arabs trace their lineage. Using strict term definition - these, and only these people, are the descendants of Shem, today referred to as the Semites.


To quote Sand: "Thus, if the arguments of anti-Semitism were scientifically worthless, so, too, were those of the Zionist ideology that complemented them with similar reasoning."


Therefore: Starting in 1862 with Hess's work in collaboration with the Rothschild family, the claims made regarding the future re-establishment of a Zionist homeland (using the territory of Palestine as the new Israel); appear now in full light to be yet another ploy of misdirection. Examination of this article demonstrates that the language used in the sophisticated rhetoric, which is embedded throughout the myriad of arguments for the creation of Israel; is fraught with inconsistency and devoid of logic, reason, or rational thought.

No wonder there's such a long history of conflict over this topic; and it seems now, that none of it was truly necessary- or justifiable.


Lastly, in view of the inconsistency in definition, grammar, and logic with respect to the basic tenets of Zionism (and anti-Semitism); it is clear that the Zionist use of "traditional Biblical, speculative anthropology" has been employed as a technique of rhetoric and misdirection, to justify Zionist actions in the occupation of Palestine.


"You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." –Richard Buckminster Fuller

My Argument disputing Prof. Sand's assertions made with reference to the Rothschild family:

Re. 1: The Rothschild Banking family has been a major influence in world finance for over 200 years.


The nature of this assertion is so vast and deep that it would not be in anyone's best interest for me to attempt to pull a single quote or passage to illustrate this point; so I have decided to include the books which discuss this fact of history. The pages within each book pertaining to the aforementioned assertion are listed in full under the References section of this article.


The Revival of Israel: Rome and Jerusalem, the Last Nationalist Que... by Moses Hess, 1862; Reformed Judaism, Origins of, p. 95, 112-117; Zionism, Origins of, p. 95, 112-117; Rothschild, role in Zionism and Colonization of Palestine, p. 173-174


The House of Rothschild, 1934 Feature Film (nominated for an Oscar)


1911 Encyclopedia Britannica entry on Rothschild


The House of Rothschild Volume 2: The World's Banker 1849-1999 by Niall Ferguson, 1998; Balfour, Arthur, p. 319, 327, 329, 350, 366, 371-372, 388, 391-95, 397, 412, 430, 443, 451-453; Balfour, Declaration, p. 449-453; Palestine, p. 27, 279-282, 445, 473-474; Zionism, p. 280-283, 449-453, 474, 489


The House of Rothschild Volume 1: Money's Prophets 1798-1848 by Niall Ferguson, 1998; Hess, Michael, p. 75; Warburg, Banking Family, p. 26, 285; Warburg, Paul, p. 26; Zionists, Zionism, p. 22, 26, 398


The Warburgs by Ron Chernow, 1993; Rothschild, Alan de, p. 472, 526-527; Rothschild, Anthony de, p. 326, 479-480; Rothschild, Baron Alfred de, p. 32, 38; Rothschild, Baron Edmund de, p. 247, 252, 450; Rothschild, Baron Lionel de, p. 100, 350, 389, 412, 436, 480, 526; Rothschild, Baron Louis von, p. 326, 466; Rothschild, Baron Robert de, p. 489-490, 525-526 Rothschild, Carola Warburg, p. 91; Rothschild, Eliede, p. 526; Rothschild, Eric, p. 526; Rothschild, Meier Carl, p. 10; Rothschild, Walter, p. 219, 40, 326, 338, 342, 601; Rothschild, Willy, p. 10; Rothschild, Nathan Mayer & Sons, p. 38, 350, 358, 413, 550, 584, 694; Rothschild, Family, p. 10, 38, 100, 412, 413, 437, 545, 645

The House of Morgan by Ron Chernow, 1990; Rothschild, Baron Henri, p. 114; Rothschild, Jacob, p. 574, 677, 682; Rothschild, James de, p. 5; Rothschild, Lionel, p. 25; Rothschild, Baron Louis von, p. 433; Rothschild, Nathan Mayer, p. 519, 680, 684; Rothschild, House of, p. 3, 5, 13, 36, 90, 99, 236, 304, 328, 472, 637

Memoirs, by David Rockefeller, 2002; Rothschild, Evelyn de, p. 207

The Panic of 1907: Lessons Learned from the Market's Perfect Storm, by Robert Bruner and Sean Carr, 2007; Morgan, J. Pierpont, p. 106; Rothschild, Lord (tribute) p. 106; see Morgan; Warburg, Paul, p. 145
Tragedy & Hope: A History of the World in Our Time, by Prof. Carroll Quigley, 1966; Rothschild family, p. 51, 56, 60, 130-131, 133, 135, 215, 246, 311, 500, 516-517, 520, 525-528, 539; Zionism, p. 1064-1066; see also Israel

Trilaterals over Washington, by Antony C. Sutton, 1978; Rothschild, Baron Edmund de, p. 141, 162
With No Apologies: The Personal and Political Memoirs of United Sta..., 1979; Rothschild, Anselm, p. 282

Fire in the Minds of Men: The Origins of Revolutionary Faith, by Dr. James H. Billington, 1980; Hegel, Hegelians, p. 224-303; Hess, Moses, p. 265; Zionism, p. 263, 334, 445-446; antecedents of 162
The Anglo-American Establishment, by Carroll Quigley, 1981

America's Secret Establishment , by Antony C. Sutton, 1983: Rothschild, Lord, p. 23

The Lost Science of Money, by Stephen Zarlenga, 2002; Rothschild, Alfred de, p. 501; Rothschild, James, p. 487, 498



Re: 2. The Rothschilds created Zionism, were influential in the Balfour Declaration, and incited the creation of Israel.

Ibid.

1911 Encyclopedia Britannica entry on Zionism

The Revival of Israel: Rome and Jerusalem, the Last Nationalist Que..., by Moses Hess, 1862; Reformed Judaism, Origins of, p. 95, 112-117

Zionism, Origins of, p. 95, 112-117; Rothschild, Role in Zionism and Colonization of Palestine, p. 173-174

The House of Rothschild Volume 1: Money's Prophets 1798-1848, by Niall Ferguson, 1998; Hess, Michael, p. 75; Warburg, Banking Family, p. 26, 285; Warburg, Paul, p. 26; Zionists, Zionism, p. 22, 26, 398

The House of Rothschild Volume 2: The World's Banker 1849-1999, by Niall Ferguson, 1998; Balfour, Arthur, p. 319, 327, 329, 350, 366, 371-372, 388, 391-95, 397, 412, 430, 443, 451-453; Balfour, Declaration, p. 449-453; Palestine, p. 27, 279-282, 445, 473-474; Zionism, p. 280-283, 449-453, 474, 489
The Warburgs, by Ron Chernow, 1993; Rothschild, Alan de, p. 472, 526-527; Rothschild, Anthony de, p. 326, 479-480; Rothschild, Baron Alfred de, p. 32, 38; Rothschild, Baron Edmund de, p. 247, 252, 450; Rothschild, Baron Lionel de, p. 100, 350, 389, 412, 436, 480, 526; Rothschild, Baron Louis von, p. 326, 466; Rothschild, Baron Robert de, p. 489-490, 525-526

Rothschild, Carola Warburg, p. 91; Rothschild, Eliede, p. 526; Rothschild, Eric, p. 526; Rothschild, Meier Carl, p. 10; Rothschild, Walter, p. 219, 40, 326, 338, 342, 601; Rothschild, Willy, p. 10; Rothschild, Nathan Mayer & Sons, p. 38, 350, 358, 413, 550, 584, 694; Rothschild, Family, p. 10, 38, 100, 412, 413, 437, 545, 645; Palestine, p. 101, 122, 247-253, 292-293, 296-305, 421, 518, 602; World War I and, p. 163, 165; Balfour Declaration and, p. 204-247, 300, 303; Jewish Immigration to, p. 247, 299, 303, 389, 400, 422, 436-437, 448-455, 465, 477, 604


The House of Morgan, by Ron Chernow, 1990; Rothschild, Baron Henri, p. 114; Rothschild, Jacob, p. 574, 677, 682; Rothschild, James de, p. 5; Rothschild, Lionel, p. 25; Rothschild, Baron Louis von, p. 433; Rothschild, Nathan Mayer, p. 519, 680, 684; Rothschild, House of, p. 3, 5, 13, 36, 90, 99, 236, 304, 328, 472, 637, gold standard and, 75-76; government loans of, 25, 26, 40; insignia of, 19-20; intelligence information of, 21; miscalculating America's importance, 40

Facts are Facts, by Benjamin H. Freedman, 1954; Balfour Declaration, p. X, XI, 94-99; Baruch, Bernard, p. X, XI, 87-90; Palestine, p. X, XI, 85-101; Paris Peace Conference, p. X, XI, 94-101; Rothschild, Involvement in Zionism, p. 112-117; Rothschild, Involvement in Balfour Declaration, p. 112-115; Rothschild, Involvement in creation of Israel, p. 112-117

Warburg, p. XI, 87, 99; Zionism, p. X, XI, 85-116

Tragedy & Hope: A History of the World in Our Time, by Carroll Quigley, 1966; Balfour, Arthur, p. 131, 148, 269, 474, 475, 481; Balfour Declaration (on Zionism), p. 148, 246-247; Palestine, p. 114; Conquest by Britain, 233, 240; Balfour Declaration, 246-247; Zionism, British, and Arabs, 1064-1066; see also Israel; Rhodes, Cecil, p. 39, 130-132, 133, 135-137, 143, 148, 151; Rhodes Scholarships (Rhodes Trust), p. 131, 139, 149, 152, 581-583, 950, 951, 953; Rothschild family, p. 51, 56, 60, 130-131, 133, 135, 215, 246, 311, 500, 516-517, 520, 525-528, 539; Zionism, p. 1064-1066; see also Israel

Fire in the Minds of Men: The Origins of Revolutionary Faith, by Dr. James H. Billington, 1980; Hegel, Hegelians, p. 224-303; Hess, Moses, p. 265; Zionism, p. 263, 334, 445-446; antecedents of 162
The Anglo-American Establishment, by Professor Carroll Quigley, 1981; Balfour, Arthur J., p. 7, 16, 17-18, 20, 27, 29, 31, 38, 41, 48, 51, 58, 142, 186, 227, 230; Balfour Declaration of 1917, p. 159, 169, 172; Palestine, p. 5, 169-176; Rhodes, Cecil, p. 3, 4, 12, 33, 64, 84, 127, 129, 237; wills, 33-35, 36-37, 38, 43; See also: Rhodes Scholarships, Rhodes Trust

Rhodes secret society, p. 3-4, 5, 33-50; Rothschild, Lord, p. 34, 37, 38, 40, 45, 48, 109, 110, 135; Rothschild and Sons, p. 190; Zionism, p. 170, 171-173

Paris 1919, by Margaret MacMillan, 2003; Balfour, Arthur, p. 10, 29, 46, 63, 68, 69, 150, 290, 330, 394, 438, 474; on Arab territories, 385, 393, 398, 400, 405; Zionist commitment of, 410, 413, 414-418, 421-426; Balfour Declaration (1917), p. 388, 416-424; Herzl, Theodore, p. 412, 420; Milner, Lord Alfred, p. 105, 393, 469, 486-487, 493; Palestine, p. 410-426; Arab claims to, 390, 409, 420-426; British control of, p. 381-384, 409, 417, 423, 424; as Jewish homeland, 382, 388, 390, 409-426; Rhodes, Cecil, p. 363, 427; Rothschild, Lord Lionel Walter, p. 413, 416; Zionism, p. xxvviii, 233, 381, 410-426; Arab resistance to, 390, 409, 420-422, 423, 424-426; British support of, 413-417, 418, 421-425; development of, 411-413; Peace Conference Presentations on, 410-411, 417-421

The Tavistock Institute of Human Relations: Shaping the Moral, Spiritual, Political and Economic Decline of The United States of America, by Dr. John Coleman, 2005; Rothschilds, p. VII, IX, 4, 7, 66, 125, 196



Re: 3. Prof. Sand's emotional response and use of an ad hominem attack involving the incendiary term


Sand's use of the term "anti-Semitic" is not indicative of what can be referred to as valid or accurate; rather it is the use of rhetoric to misdirect, intimidate, or otherwise dissuade conversation further on this matter. Provably, Sand's comments (according to the interview and the transcript provided above) are in error; and instead of just saying... "wow, I didn't know that... let's explore together and see where this goes...", or the equivalent in colloquial Hebrew, he reacted with emotion, instead of employing use of intellectual capacity to learn.

My Counter-Argument defending Prof. Sand's assertions:
Re: 1. I cannot defend this assertion without being asked to forget valid facts.
Re: 2. I can see the possibility of Prof. Sand's assertion (that the Rothschilds were not Zionists) as being factual IF: we can both agree on the history that the Rothschilds were intimately involved in A) the creation of Reformed Judaism, B) the creation of Zionism, and thus as a consequence, C) the creation of anti-Zionism or anti-Semitism; being that the Rothschilds continually worked with Arab factions (as contended by Sand) as well as funding aspects of the Bolshevik Revolution and Nazi Germany. Being that the Rothschilds were instrumental in the creation of Zionism, which thereby provoked anti-Semitism; I could see how Sand regards them as "non-Zionist".

Re: 3. I can overlook Sand's emotional reaction, as I myself have reacted to (not knowing) in an emotional way; and in the past I too might have relied on a fallacy, misnomer, or misdirection as a way to protect my ego.

Conclusion
From a traditional perspective of the facts available, on the surface, it appears that Prof. Sand is in error- or at least severely underestimating- the gravamen of the Rothschild family in history, specifically the role they have played in the creation of Israel.

From a critical thinking perspective, Sand has identified a yet-to-be named group of international financiers; who themselves do not follow any of the major religions, nor adhere to the moral standards of the masses- but rather pursues endless greed -- A group which concocts myths and creates nationalist movements like Zionism (but are not Zionists themselves), only to then manipulate and provoke the equal and opposite reaction- that being anti-Semitism- in order to achieve the synthesis provided by putting the thesis in conflict with the anti-thesis.

We might consider defining a name for the group which worships greed, and is truly responsible for creating so much misdirection and chaos; now that Sand has provided the opportunity wherein we can teach

ourselves to learn our way out of the proverbial wilderness.


Lacking this nomenclature, we are left unable to name that which we are trying to describe, and in naming it, we take the first step toward overcoming our fear of the unknown and learning to understand as a way of life.

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About the Author: Richard Grove is a former Wall Street Whistleblower, long-time Artist, and current Editor of Tragedy and Hope Magazine. You can find his contact information here, and screen his latest film here.




Re: Defining Peace:


Martin Luther King, Jr.: One day we must come to see that peace is not merely a distant goal we seek, but that it is a means by which we arrive at that goal. We must pursue peaceful ends through peaceful means.


R. Buckminster Fuller : Either war is obsolete or men are.



Moshe Dayan : If you want to make peace, you don't talk to your friends. You talk to your enemies.



Indira Gandhi: You can't shake hands with a clenched fist.

Click here to read the entire article, these are just the references. Thank You!


References and Recommendations for Reading:

The House of Morgan, by Ron Chernow, 1990

Bio Note: Ron Chernow is an American biographer. He is the author of Alexander Hamilton, The House of Morgan, and Titan: The Life of John D. Rockefeller, Sr., among other works. Chernow graduated with honors from Yale University and Cambridge University with degrees in English literature. He then began a career as a freelance journalist. From 1973 to 1982, he published more than 60 articles in national publications.

Rothschild, Baron Henri, p. 114
Rothschild, Jacob, p. 574, 677, 682
Rothschild, James de, p. 5
Rothschild, Lionel, p. 25
Rothschild, Baron Louis von, p. 433
Rothschild, Nathan Mayer, p. 519, 680, 684
Rothschild, House of, p. 3, 5, 13, 36, 90, 99, 236, 304, 328, 472, 637, gold standard and, 75-76; government loans of, 25, 26, 40; insignia of, 19-20; intelligence information of, 21; miscalculating America's importance, 40

The Warburgs, by Ron Chernow, 1993
The Twentieth-Century Odyssey of a Remarkable Jewish Family

Rothschild, Alan de, p. 472, 526-527
Rothschild, Anthony de, p. 326, 479-480
Rothschild, Baron Alfred de, p. 32, 38
Rothschild, Baron Edmund de, p. 247, 252, 450
Rothschild, Baron Lionel de, p. 100, 350, 389, 412, 436, 480, 526
Rothschild, Baron Louis von, p. 326, 466
Rothschild, Baron Robert de, p. 489-490, 525-526
Rothschild, Carola Warburg, p. 91
Rothschild, Eliede, p. 526
Rothschild, Eric, p. 526
Rothschild, Meier Carl, p. 10
Rothschild, Walter, p. 219, 240, 326, 338, 342, 601
Rothschild, Willy, p. 10
Rothschild, Nathan Mayer & Sons, p. 38, 350, 358, 413, 550, 584, 694
Rothschild, Family, p. 10, 38, 100, 412, 413, 437, 545, 645
Palestine, p. 101, 122, 247-253, 292-293, 296-305, 421, 518, 602
World War I and, p. 163, 165
Balfour Declaration and, p. 204-247, 300, 303
Jewish Immigration to, p. 247, 299, 303, 389, 400, 422, 436-437, 448-455, 465, 477, 604

The House of Rothschild Volume 1: Money's Prophets 1798-1848, by Niall Ferguson 1998

(From the Cover: National Jewish Book Awards Finalist by the Jewish Book Council; One of Business Week's Ten Best Books of the Year; "Rich and Compelling... a Feast" – The Wall Street Journal)

Bio Note: Niall Ferguson is a British historian who specializes in financial and economic history as well as the history of colonialism. He is the Laurence A. Tisch Professor of History at Harvard University[2] and the William Ziegler Professor of Business Administration at Harvard Business School. He was educated at the private Glasgow Academy in Scotland, and at Magdalen College, Oxford.

Hess, Michael, p. 75


Warburg, Banking Family, p. 26, 285
Warburg, Paul, p. 26
Zionists, Zionism, p. 22, 26, 398

The House of Rothschild Volume 2: The World's Banker 1849-1999, by Niall Ferguson, 1998

(From the Cover: A New York Times Notable Book; "A stupendous achievement, a triumph of historical research and imagination. No serious historian can write about politics, diplomacy, and economics of the 19th century in the same way." –Robert Skidelsky, The New York Review of Books)

Balfour, Arthur, p. 319, 327, 329, 350, 366, 371-372, 388, 391-95, 397, 412, 430, 443, 451-453
Balfour, Declaration, p. 449-453
Palestine, p. 27, 279-282, 445, 473-474
Zionism, p. 280-283, 449-453, 474, 489

Memoirs, by David Rockefeller, 2002

Bio Note: David Rockefeller studied under John Dewey at Columbia University before graduating cum laudeHarvard University, doing his senior thesis on Fabian socialism. He did a postgraduate year in economics at Harvard and then a year at the London School of Economics, which had strong links to the family through his father and the family-run Rockefeller Foundation. from

Rothschild, Evelyn de, p. 207
Rothschild Group of Banks, p. 207-208, 212

Fire in the Minds of Men: The Origins of Revolutionary Faith, by Dr. James H. Billington, 1980


Bio Note: Dr. James H. Billington received his doctorate as a Rhodes Scholar at Oxford, and taught history for seventeen years at Harvard and Princeton Universities. Dr. Billington was sworn in as the Librarian of Congress on September 14, 1987. He is the 13th person to hold the position since the Library of Congress was established in 1800.

Hegel, Hegelians, p. 224-303
Hess, Moses, p. 265
Zionism, p. 263, 334, 445-446; antecedents of 162

The Anglo-American Establishment, by Prof. Carroll Quigley, 1981

Bio Note: Carroll Quigley (1910-1977) was a highly respected professor at the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University; subsequent to his years spent teaching at Harvard and Princeton universities.

Balfour, Arthur J., p. 7, 16, 17-18, 20, 27, 29, 31, 38, 41, 48, 51, 58, 142, 186, 227, 230
Balfour Declaration of 1917, p. 159, 169, 172
Palestine, p. 5, 169-176
Rhodes, Cecil, p. 3, 4, 12, 33, 64, 84, 127, 129, 237; wills, 33-35, 36-37, 38, 43; See also: Rhodes Scholarships, Rhodes Trust
Rhodes secret society, p. 3-4, 5, 33-50
Rothschild, Lord, p. 34, 37, 38, 40, 45, 48, 109, 110, 135
Rothschild and Sons, p. 190
Zionism, p. 170, 171-173

Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in Our Time, by Prof. Carroll Quigley, 1966

Balfour, Arthur, p. 131, 148, 269, 474, 475, 481
Balfour Declaration (on Zionism), p. 148, 246-247
Palestine, p. 114; Conquest by Britain, 233, 240; Balfour Declaration, 246-247; Zionism, British, and Arabs, 1064-1066; see also Israel
Rhodes, Cecil, p. 39, 130-132, 133, 135-137, 143, 148, 151
Rhodes Scholarships (Rhodes Trust), p. 131, 139, 149, 152, 581-583, 950, 951, 953
Rothschild family, p. 51, 56, 60, 130-131, 133, 135, 215, 246, 311, 500, 516-517, 520, 525-528, 539
Zionism, p. 1064-1066; see also Israel

Paris 1919, by Margaret MacMillan, 2003

Bio Note: Margaret MacMillan is a historian and professor at the University of Oxford, where she is Warden of St. Antony's College. She is former provost of Trinity College and professor of history at the University of TorontoRyerson University. A leading expert on history and international relations, MacMillan is a frequent commentator in the media.Her maternal grandmother, Olwen Elizabeth Lloyd George, was a daughter of David Lloyd George, Prime Minister of the
United Kingdom and his first wife Margaret Owen.

Balfour, Arthur, p. 10, 29, 46, 63, 68, 69, 150, 290, 330, 394, 438, 474; on Arab territories, 385, 393, 398, 400, 405; Zionist commitment of, 410, 413, 414-418, 421-426
Balfour Declaration (1917), p. 388, 416-424
Herzl, Theodore, p. 412, 420
Milner, Lord Alfred, p. 105, 393, 469, 486-487, 493
Palestine, p. 410-426; Arab claims to, 390, 409, 420-426; British control of, p. 381-384, 409, 417, 423, 424; as Jewish homeland, 382, 388, 390, 409-426
Rhodes, Cecil, p. 363, 427
Rothschild, Lord Lionel Walter, p. 413, 416
Zionism, p. xxvviii, 233, 381, 410-426; Arab resistance to, 390, 409, 420-422, 423, 424-426; British support of, 413-417, 418, 421-425; development of, 411-413; Peace Conference Presentations on, 410-411, 417-421

The Revival of Israel: Rome and Jerusalem, the Last Nationalist Que..., by Moses Hess 1862

From the Back Cover: "Important, as the first book to give theoretical expression to Zionism, The Revival of Israel was originally published in 1862; laying the foundations of Zionism that Theodore Herzl, founder of the political Zionist movement, would popularize four decades later."

Bio Note: Moses Hess originally advocated Jewish integration into the universalist socialist movement, and was a friend and collaborator of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. He was an early proponent of socialism, and a precursor to what would later be called Zionism. Hess converted Engels to Communism, and introduced Marx to social and economic problems. He played an important role in transforming Hegelian dialectical idealism theory of history to the dialectical materialism of Marxism, by conceiving of man as the initiator of history through his active consciousness. Wladimir Ze'ev Jabotinsky honored Hess in The Jewish Legion in World War as one of those people that made the Balfour declaration possible, together with Herzl, Rothschild and Pinsker.

Reformed Judaism, Origins of, p. 95, 112-117
Zionism, Origins of, p. 95, 112-117
Rothschild, Role in Zionism and Colonization of Palestine, p. 173-174

With No Apologies: The Personal and Political Memoirs of United Sta..., 1979

Bio Note: Senator Barry Goldwater was a five-term Senator from the state of Arizona, who worked closely with Nelson Rockefeller and later disclosed the fraud ongoing, as described in chapter 33 of his memoirs; "The Non Elected Rulers".

Rothschild, Anselm, p. 282

The Lost Science of Money, by Stephen Zarlenga, 2002

Rothschild, Alfred de, p. 501
Rothschild, James, p. 487, 498

The House of Rothschild 1934 (Feature Film)

Bio Note: The House of Rothschild was presented by 20th Century Fox and nominated for an Oscar; illustrates the history of the Rothschild Banking Family dominating world economics and being the first to make loans to nations.

Facts are Facts, by Benjamin H. Freedman, 1954

Bio Note: Benjamin H. Freedman was a Jewish businessman from New York City who was for many years a Zionist... and so were some of his closest colleagues, including Bernard Baruch, Samuel Untermeyer, and Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis. Benjamin Freedman was also present at the Versailles Peace Conference, and his book is a testimony to what he witnessed there.

Balfour Declaration, p. X, XI, 94-99
Baruch, Bernard, p. X, XI, 87-90
Palestine, p. X, XI, 85-101
Paris Peace Conference, p. X, XI, 94-101
Rothschild, Involvement in Zionism, p. 112-117
Rothschild, Involvement in Balfour Declaration, p. 112-115
Rothschild, Involvement in creation of Israel, p. 112-117
Warburg, p. XI, 87, 99
Zionism, p. X, XI, 85-116

Trilaterals over Washington, by Antony C. Sutton, 1978


Bio Note: Antony C. Sutton studied at the universities of London, Goettingen and California and received his D.Sc. degree from University of Southampton, England. He was an economics professor at California State University Los Angeles and a research fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution from 1968 to 1973. During his time at the Hoover Institute he wrote the major study Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development (in three volumes), detailing how the West played a major role in developing Soviet Union from its very beginnings up until the present time (1970). In 1973 he published a popularized, condensed version of the three volumes called National Suicide: Military Aid to the Soviet Union, and was thereby forced out of the Hoover Institution.
Sutton's next three major published books Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution, Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler and Wall Street and FDR detailed Wall Street's involvement in the Russian Revolution as well as its decisive contributions to the rise of Adolf Hitler and Franklin Delano Roosevelt. His books became classics in the study of covert politics and economics in the twentieth century. In Sutton's own words he was "persecuted but never prosecuted" for his research and subsequent publication of his findings.
Rothschild, Baron Edmund de, p. 141, 162
America's Secret Establishment, by Antony C. Sutton, 1983

Rothschild, Lord, p. 23

The Tavistock Institute of Human Relations: Shaping the Moral, Spir..., by Dr. John Coleman, 2005

Rothschilds, p. VII, IX, 4, 7, 66, 125, 196

The Panic of 1907: Lessons Learned from the Market's Perfect Storm, by Robert Bruner and Sean Carr, 2007

Morgan, J. Pierpont, p. 106
Rothschild, Lord (tribute) p. 106; see Morgan
Warburg, Paul, p. 145




Last but not least, this reference was submitted by Jan Irvin moments after publication of this article, received via email from someone who had already listened to the interview:




NILES' WEEKLY REGISTER, from Baltimore, Maryland, dated November 28, 1829


"There is a report that the Rothschilds have purchased Jerusalem. We see nothing improbable that, in the pecuniary distress of the sultan, he should sale some part of his dominions to preserve the rest; or that the Rothschilds should purchase the ancient capital of their home land. They are wealthy beyond the desire, even of avarice; and so situated, it is quit reasonable to suppose that they may seek something else to gratify their ambition that shall produce most important effects. If secured in the position, (and may be brought about by money), they might instantly, as it were, gather a large nation together, soon to become capable of defending its self, and having a wonderful influence over the commerce condition of the east--rendering again Judea deposite of wealth of the "ancient world." To the sultan, the country is of no great value; but in the hands of the Jews, directed by such men as the Rothschilds, what might it not become, and in a short period of time?


The sultan is in great difficulty--Baron Rothschild was proceeding to Constantinople; and a second re-building of the temple is not among the most strange expected in these strange times, by some of the Jews."


Trivium References:

One possible path of learning I would like to bring to your attention is the Trivium Method of Thinking, which has also been referred to as the "Lost Tools of Learning". This is why we like to use the Trivium Method here at Tragedy and Hope:

In short, the Trivium is a method of critical and creative thinking that was utilized by intellectuals throughout human history to discern truth from fallacies; organizing grammar, logic, and rhetoric to cogently and effectively communicate ideas to others.

The Trivium Method of Thinking was systematically removed from our education in the last century to effectively "dumb down" the vast majority of people; thereby creating super-consumers, who react emotionally, capitulate to so-called authority figures, are pretty much incapable of independent thought, analysis, and constructive communication.

Special thanks goes out to Gene Odening, recent guest on the Gnostic Media Podcast; and the messenger who delivered the Trivium Method of Thinking back to some people who choose to use it to express- rather than suppress- consciousness.

Gnostic Media podcast 049 as well as episodes 050, 062, 063, 068, 069

Zionism / anti-Semitism References:

Gnostic Media podcast 054: Against Zionism Rabbi Ysrael David Weiss
What is truth and what is propaganda? Tonight we'll be discussing what is probably the single most controversial subject in the world today: Zionism. What is Zionism, and why is it important to understand? Is anti-Zionism related to anti-Semitism? Are Zionists attempting a world takeover, or is it just "good business"? Does the state of Israel have the right to exist? What are the local and global consequences of Zionism? What is the real purpose behind groups like the ADL? Are all Jews Zionist, and do all Jews support Israel? And what is AIPAC? This is the other side of the story that you won't hear on the mainstream news, or for that matter, just about anyplace else.
In the name of free speech and stirring controversy and thinking outside the box, my guest is Rabbi Yisrel Dovid Weiss from Neturei Karta here to discuss Zionism and the end of Israel. Rabbi Weiss is the man who gave President Ahmadinejad of Iran an award for NOT being a racist and for understanding the real dangers of Zionism. This is an interview that counters everything we've been told about Israel and Zionism, and Iran in the mainstream media.
So lay your emotional arguments aside and put on your thinking caps because I've got one heck of a show for you - and please, leave your prejudices at the door.
http://www.nkusa.org




Defamation (feature film), Yoav Shamir

What is Antisemitism today, two generations after the Holocaust? In his continuing exploration of modern Israeli life, director Yoav Shamir travels the world in search of the most modern manifestations of the "oldest hatred", and comes up with some startling answers.

In this irreverent quest, he follows American Jewish leaders to the capitals of Europe, as they warn government officials of the growing threat of anti-Semitism, and he tacks on to a class of Israeli high school students on a pilgrimage to Auschwitz. On his way, Shamir meets controversial historian, Norman Finkelstein, who offers his unpopular views on the manner that anti-Semitism is being used by the Jewish community and especially Israel for political gain.

He also joins scholars, Stephen M. Walt and John J. Mearsheimer, while they give a lecture in Israel following the release of their book "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy", about the disproportional influence the Israel lobby in Washington enjoys. Yoav visits Yad Vashem, the Holocaust memorial museum in Jerusalem, the must stop for all world leaders on their visits to Israel. While in Jerusalem, he drops by the house of his grandmother that offers her insight on the issue and declares that she is the "real Jew".

Defamation Part 1

[youtube:1grvmurn]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qR1h-H7vNU[/youtube]1grvmurn]

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