How can a small family survive?

[MayBe]

How much land do you need to survive solo (partner and 2 kids included) with some limited public services still going?

I have been looking at this and these are my thoughts on the most likely scenario short term. There will be some limited services but if you help your self via plans it will be better. Long term is a different topic.

This scenario assumes these main points:

On the positive: We have
- No fallout or air born issues or bio whatever
- Access to good natural water supply for those that live near it (ie. river)
- Public/property security (ie. Boots)
- No public disease
- ie no other direct physical issue but your land and whats on it

On the negative: We lose on and off daily the following:
- Power
- Internet gateways
- Public clean water
- Road clearing/fire/emergency response
- Shops have problems sourcing goods etc.
- ie. cant depend of these on any given day

I ignore the public order issue. I'm thinking about eating.

We can not plan for everything so I guess start somewhere.

I have heard that you can live on 1 acre with intense gardening. Is it possible? I understand you need to have things in motion ages before hand so crops/seeds/storage of last season crops are in. Assuming good soil and water could I sustain a 'small' family on 1 acre.

Protein is my main concern. Herbs and vegs should be ok and stock piled salt and rice till my crop can be harvested.

MAIN problem: protein
Can chicken eggs be enough? They look to be low maintenance.

I could rely on trade with my veg but that is risky. How do I get enough protein?
I can stock pile 10 years of rice and vit pills I guess. I have water which I get buying a property on a river (up river hopefully).

So in theory im good for 10 years of carbo/vitimins/minerals/water. Cant stock protein - any solution?

[Negentropic]

Get the 25 pound barrell of Hemp Protein from HempUSA.org.  Get as many 25 pound barrells as you need for your family. It doesn't spoil for a long time even without vacuum packing , ants and insects don't go near it and it's the most nutritious plant in the world. It's basically a complete food and you don't need anything else but clean non-fluoride water. If there's still electricty and access to fruit, you mix 1 banana plus  2 or 3 tablespoons of that and some cold spring water in a blender and drink it 2 or 3 times a day and  you will get optimum nutrition and more than enough protein of the best variety including all the essential fatty acids and enzymes. Now, it's not a very exciting meal but it's much easier than growing your own garden and having to eat 10 different vegatables plus beans plus eggs from chickens etc. to get not nearly the same amount of nutrition of a lesser quality while wasting large amounts of time you could put to better use than chasing the homemade gourmet meal of the apocalypse. Also vegetables go bad after a few days even with refrigeration. Hemp you can just leave in the barrell in room temperature and it does not spoil for a year or more. Even if there is nothing else available, you can chew the hemp protein and drink some water with it and it will provide everything you need.   The seeds are easier to chew but not as concentrated, not as good of a value for your money and due to the higher fiber content (the seed shells) will give you the runs and diarrea if you don't eat a couple of bananas before chewing them.  The hemp protein will not give you the runs since it's basically the meat of the seed drained of excess oil and with the shells milled and sifted from billions of seeds.

And no, none of this type of cannabis sativa will get you or your kids and grandmother high since it has to have 0 THC to be legal to sell from Canada. The hemp grown for food is grown in a totally different way than the hemp grown for THC.  

I've been eating hemp every single day for over a year now and it's basically made me the healthiest I've ever been my whole life. I don't eat any refined sugar either and that's very important sice refined sugars drain vitamins and nutrition from the body. If you have time to do some cardiovascular exercise about 20 minutes a day and light weight training of different muscle groups another 20 and drink a hemp shake afterwards while cutting down carbohydrates and eliminating refined sugars in the rest of your diet you'll be in the best shape of your life very quickly.

I  recommended hemp in an e-mail to DBS once when he was getting sick all the time but I doubt that he ordered any since he has a problem with anything advertised on Rense & Infowars.  Alex himself obviously doesn't eat hemp or he wouldn't be as fat and out of shape as he is.

[Anonymous]

I don't know about the hemp but I'll tell you what I have been doing.

I pretty much just eat potatoes and tinned fish, sardines, samon, tuna. I also eat eggs. I also eat fruit but I would not need it if i did not have it. I also eat alot of coconut oil, I generally mix it into the mashed potatoes. I do not eat any wheat/grain products and avoid all dairy.

I think potatoes are the way to go, mash them up and add fat and then add 1 tin of sardines on top and it is pretty much a complete meal.

I have not done any preparedness but this diet of mine keeps me healthier than before. Don't overlook fat in the diet, alot of people just focus on carbs and protein but I consume as much as I can. Fat is filling and important in a meal.

[MayBe]

Thanks for the two posts. You raise products I never considered.

Re Negentropic:
Hemp is an interesting idea. I didnt know it can be used as a food. But its still regulated in my country. Cant even make a hemp coat. However there is presure to change the law so thats good. However you say it has a shelf life of 1 year or so. That would be a problem as I want to survive for say 5 to 10 years and can not rely on restocking and cant grow enough on a small residential property.
You mention vacuum packing. Maybe that might work with sealed plastic barrels. Could it be freezed dried to last longer?
Your exercise idea for survival is a good reminder. I could get focused on food but not exercise the family.

Re bluejelly:
Potatoes is a good idea and I think that would be my main ground crop to suppliment the rice stock pile.
I didnt consider fat. Eggs have some. By adding fat to mashed potatoes (which I love so much that you have me excited about planting them cause im sure we would get sick of rice after the first year) do you mean adding coconut oil? Does that oil keep 5 or more years?

Cans of anything I have decided to ignore other than buying heaps at the time to be used over the next 2 years. They dont last more than 2 years in a humid climate before rusting and contaminating the contents. Although Im sure I will eat rust and plastic leaching from the lining if it comes to it. However I want to avoid reliance on cans for pre planning as you dont know how long it will be before you need them.

I am also starting to consider what low cost things could be stock pile in advance and what I could grow that would have the biggest trading value for swapping with neighbours for items I cant produce like cheese/wood for repairs etc. I am thinking salt and potatoes/rice. Fuel is an obvious but I want to stay focued on food at the moment.

[Anonymous]

This is a topic I have a fair bit of knowledge.

The first mistake preppers make is this notion of trying to figure out a way to maintain something resembling their current lifestyle. Forget it fast.

With what were facing you should be thinking ULTIMATE survival and that means extreme simplicity and adaptability.

Many mistakenly quote that Zionist Jewish prick Darwin, "survival of the fittest' and all that. However what he really said is very important to the topic at hand.

"Its not the strongest of the species that survives, nor is it the most intelligent, it is those MOST ADAPTABLE TO CHANGE that survive".  

I'm not a religious guy, its all crap imo but somewhere in the book it refers to "and the Meek share inherit the Earth".  Many seem to think Meek means weak or simple or I don't know what the feck they think it means. Well, Meek is an ancient word meaning "teachable" which is really referring to ADAPTABLE. I'm sure you get the point.

For you to be alive an breathing right now you need what I call the "Eight elements of survival".  Think I'll start a new thread covering this.

As for protein, I'll get right to the point. "Learn to trap or die". Got it?

Now, stock up on PROPER small and medium game aircraft cable snares, forget this brass picture frame wire crap. Your looking for 7x7-1/16"  and 7x7 -3/32" for most purposes to stay alive. 7 foot 7x7-3/32" with a cam-lock can EASILY snare a deer as well. Illegal in most places but were talking survival so screw Jewish "laws".
Get proper locks, swivels & springs and support wire. Some good lure goes a long way as well. I can detail the gear, where to get it and how to use it more if you like. But THE man to learn from is "Buckshot".
http://snare-trap-survive.com/

Since snares are essentially single use you must also stock up on CONIBEAR traps. Keep it simple so forget leg-hold traps and the like. Your looking at #110 for rabbits and squirrels, #220 for raccoon sized animals and #330 for beaver sized animals. This will keep you ALIVE and much of it is very portable. I almost always have some of the above within arms reach.

A person who knows how to snare can out do ANY hunter. Obviously snares work for you while your off doing something else like gather firewood of running security. However, you need firearms as well. A .22lr rifle is essential to help feed your family. One of the best rounds for this purpose is "Remington Yellowjacket", excellent expansion. A compact .308 is the way to go for higher caliber but learn how to use them. That should be another thread as well.

Now seriously look into flax seed and sprouting seeds of various types for nutrition. Look into it, you will learn why I'm recommending it. Thats another thread too.

Z. Sniper

[MayBe]

You raise some useful thoughts. Building up my bush craft and trapping skills is a very good idea if it all turns to custurd. I saw a link to download a bushcraft survival manual and that makes sence as a backstop.That and feild first aid manual.

However my concern is about the most likely short term 'disruption to services' for say 5 years.

I am wondering about a middle earth scenario which is more likely in the short term before the ring gets tossed.

I dont want to even think about how to capture things. I live in an urban area with a big native forest near but traps are just as likely to catch the neighbors 2 year old girl as a dog to eat.

I am not going full survival with guns ever, so my origional post in a given secenario is my current concern. This is an issue of probiblity and we need to bet on where is the best payoff.

I will look at the seed ideas you mentioned.

[Anonymous]

You raise some useful thoughts. Building up my bush craft and trapping skills is a very good idea if it all turns to custurd. I saw a link to download a bushcraft survival manual and that makes sence as a backstop.That and feild first aid manual.

However my concern is about the most likely short term 'disruption to services' for say 5 years.

I am wondering about a middle earth scenario which is more likely in the short term before the ring gets tossed.

I dont want to even think about how to capture things. I live in an urban area with a big native forest near but traps are just as likely to catch the neighbors 2 year old girl as a dog to eat.

I am not going full survival with guns ever, so my origional post in a given secenario is my current concern. This is an issue of probiblity and we need to bet on where is the best payoff.

I will look at the seed ideas you mentioned.

Middle Earth scenario?  Please explain.

#1. I wouldn't bet on disruption for 5 years. IMO people need to stop that line of thinking. Start from the idea of having nothing for good and go from there. Its all up hill at that point!

#2. No need to worry about capturing your neighbors child if your using snares vs traps. Chances of a person getting hurt there is extremely low. One of the only good things about being in an urban area is there tends to be many raccoons, great food source.  Personally, no matter how hard it is I'd say move from an urban area for obvious reasons.

#3. Bet for best payoff?  Thats a dangerous game. Give that idea some more thought my friend.

As for guns, I'll be as frank as possible; you do not want to have a sudden realization you should have bought some and learned how to use them. This is a grave error.

As for what your calling short term 3-5 years, start with a lot of canned goods like tuna, salmon, sardines, mackrel etc. Your good for a couple years or more with that so not sure what your worked up about. Stock up on a bunch of the above (least amount of chemicals and soya oil possible) , constantly use and rotate, store in a cool dry place, to make cans last as long as possible without rusting remove label & spray with a light coat a lacquer, relabel and re-date.
You don't want to go down this road and be several years into it and then realize your wrong about the short term idea. Then what? Get some proper snares and conibear traps just incase.
Word of caution though, DO NOT use up all your supplies and then start snaring for food. People with best chances will start transitioning to natural resources right out of the gate.

Again, IMO your being foolish with the firearm issue. Don't be afraid of going down this path. Be afraid of the path being taken for you and not being prepared. Think about your family.

ZS

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

You might want to check out an Asian food store for lot size bags of brown rice. Usually you can get decent quality rice brands  at pretty fair prices from Vietnamese, Korean or Chinese food stores.  Rice typically can store well for years. American rice brands are actually a good bargain.

In a weird way, you can find pretty much all your survival food except for hemp at Asian food stores including quality can Tuna in bulk. I guess Asians survived so many wars in the 20th century they came out with "how to survive" by necessity.

[Anonymous]

You might want to check out an Asian food store for lot size bags of brown rice. Usually you can get decent quality rice brands  at pretty fair prices from Vietnamese, Korean or Chinese food stores.  Rice typically can store well for years. American rice brands are actually a good bargain.

In a weird way, you can find pretty much all your survival food except for hemp at Asian food stores including quality can Tuna in bulk. I guess Asians survived so many wars in the 20th century they came out with "how to survive" by necessity.

Good advice CSR. Asian & Middle Eastern stores are excellent resources.  Brown rice is great but it doesn't store well compared to white rice (typically 2 yrs at most) because the oils it contains goes rancid.

ZS

[Negentropic]

Re Negentropic:
Hemp is an interesting idea. I didnt know it can be used as a food. But its still regulated in my country. Cant even make a hemp coat. However there is presure to change the law so thats good. However you say it has a shelf life of 1 year or so. That would be a problem as I want to survive for say 5 to 10 years and can not rely on restocking and cant grow enough on a small residential property.
You mention vacuum packing. Maybe that might work with sealed plastic barrels. Could it be freezed dried to last longer?
Your exercise idea for survival is a good reminder. I could get focused on food but not exercise the family.

Hemp's got a shelf life in room temperature without canning or vacuum packing for an easy 1 to 2 years. With vacuum packing 5-10 years. You can never get more nutrition from eating tuna (with plenty of mercury) out of cans and Rice than by just eating hemp.  Like I said in the previous post, out of the millions of plants known to man the meat of the hemp seed is the single most nutritious on the planet. It is not just a complete food but a superfood. You don't need to stock up on hundreds of traps that can only be used once. You can get traps and learn how to set them in case you want some 'gourmet' food in the wilderness.  Hemp isn't gourmet, it's just able to replace all protein sources.  People who refuse to eat hemp because they think that it's marijuana and will screw them up and make them lazy and forgetful really have no friggin idea of the benefits of eating hemp. Survivalist skills are definitely important but having hemp in storage instead of just bags of rice will give you the ULTIMATE back-up and save you a lot of time and unnecessary trapping and hunting and gathering, which you should practice concurrently and get good at just in case you need to live out in the boondocks for more than 2 years and al your stored food runs out. You can still trap and eat trapped animal meat but you won't be dependent on it until everything else runs out.


http://www.botanical.com/products/learn/h/hemp_seed.html

Hemp Seed
Also known as- as: Cannabis sativa, Bangue, Bhang, Canamo, Canamo Indio, Cannabis, Chanvre, Ganeb, Ganja, Han Ma, Hanf, Hemp fruit, Hemp Protein, Hennep, Hint Keneviri, Hops, Huang Ma, Huo Ma, Indian Hemp, Kenevir, Kif, Ma Fen, Ma Jen Chiu, Mariguana, Marijuana, Qunnab, Ta Ma, Tchene, Tekrouri.

Introduction
Hemp has a bad reputation as being an illegal narcotic, which deters many people from the hemp plant, Cannabis sativa. However, the plant's Latin name means "useful hemp", and the seeds are one of the most nutritious substances on earth. Hemp seed contains all the essential amino acids and essential fatty acids that our bodies need, which makes it a perfect protein supplement. No other single source provides such a complete protein in a form that is so easily digested and absorbed by the body.

Constituents
Hemp Seed contains: Protein, Omega 3, 6, and 9 fatty acids. fiber, Vitamin A, Vitamin B1, Vitamin B2, Vitamin B6, Vitamin C, Vitamin D, Vitamin E, Sodium, Calcium, Iron, Phosphorus, and Niacin.
Our hulled Hemp seed does not contain any traceable levels of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the psychoactive substance found in marijuana.

Parts Used
Seed and Leaf.

Typical Preparations
The seeds have a nutty flavor similar to sunflower seeds, and may be eaten raw or added to salads, baked goods, granola, sauces, dips, and can be processed into milk, cheese, ice cream, margarine, or ground into flour. A normal dosage is 1 tablespoon (15 grams) of shelled Hemp seed taken twice per day.

Summary
Hemp seeds contain all the essential amino acids and essential fatty acids necessary to maintain healthy human life. No other single plant source has the essential amino acids in such an easily digestible form, nor has the essential fatty acids in as perfect a ratio to meet human nutritional needs.
Medicinally, Hemp seed is anodyne, anthelmintic, demulcent, diuretic, emollient, emmenagogue, febrifuge, laxative, and tonic. It is used to treat constipation, nervous diseases, and is shown to be effective at lowering the risk of heart attack, heart disease, cholesterol, and it also has anti-inflammatory effects making it beneficial for arthritis and autoimmune disorders.
Nutritionally, Hemp Seed contains by weight: 30.6% Protein, 5.8% Omega-9, 27.56% Linoleic 18:2 (Omega-6), 8.68% Linolenic 18:3 (Omega-3), 6.0% dietary fiber. In milligrams per 100g weight, Hemp Seed contains: Calcium: 139 mg, Phosphorus: 1123 mg, Iron: 13.9 mg, Vitamin A: 518 mg, Thiamine (Vitamin B1): 0.37 mg, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2): 0.2 mg, and Niacin: 2.43 mg.
Plus, it also contains Vitamin B6, Vitamin C, Vitamin D, Vitamin E, and Sodium. Sixty-five percent of the protein content in hempseed is in the form of globulin edestin, so that it can actually be used by the body in its raw state (unlike that in soybeans, which have to be cooked or sprouted). Hemp's ratio of Omega 6 to Omega 3 fatty acids is about 4:1 which mirrors the primitive diet the human race evolved on for 2.5 million years.

Precautions
May cause loosening of the stool.  (only the seed, hardly ever the protein poweder)
Should not be used if taking anticoagulant drugs as bleeding can occur due to the presence of omega oils which are a natural blood thinner.

http://www.hempusa.org/


And here are all the archived radio interviews:

http://www.hempusa.org/pages.php?CDpath=3


[youtube:1fntn4r2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rgDyEO_8cI[/youtube]1fntn4r2]

[youtube:1fntn4r2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9Am3yUDt3M[/youtube]1fntn4r2]


I don't think even in the case of complete economic collapse the world will turn into the wild west or mad max or the Lewis & Clark expedition for more than a year or two at most, but you never know so better prepared than sorry.