“Off Tangent Show” # 18 with your host Latin

[LatinAmericanview]

Latin takes a look at the claims made by Daryl Bradford Smith. Latin asks do the numbers matter?

Who controls the past, controls the future; who controls the present, controls the past - George Orwell, 1984

Source for my observations

George Orwell
Looking back on the Spanish War

The struggle for power between the Spanish Republican parties is an unhappy, far-off thing which I have no wish to revive at this date. I only mention it in order to say: believe nothing, or next to nothing, of what you read about internal affairs on the Government side. It is all, from whatever source, party propaganda — that is to say, lies. The broad truth about the war is simple enough. The Spanish bourgeoisie saw their chance of crushing the labour movement, and took it, aided by the Nazis and by the forces of reaction all over the world. It is doubtful whether more than that will ever be established.

I remember saying once to Arthur Koestler, 'History stopped in 1936', at which he nodded in immediate understanding. We were both thinking of totalitarianism in general, but more particularly of the Spanish civil war. Early in life I have noticed that no event is ever correctly reported in a newspaper, but in Spain, for the first time, I saw newspaper reports which did not bear any relation to the facts, not even the relationship which is implied in an ordinary lie. I saw great battles reported where there had been no fighting, and complete silence where hundreds of men had been killed. I saw troops who had fought bravely denounced as cowards and traitors, and others who had never seen a shot fired hailed as the heroes of imaginary victories; and I saw newspapers in London retailing these lies and eager intellectuals building emotional superstructures over events that had never happened. I saw, in fact, history being written not in terms of what happened but of what ought to have happened according to various 'party lines'.

When one thinks of all the people who support or have supported Fascism, one stands amazed at their diversity. What a crew! Think of a programme which at any rate for a while could bring Hitler, Petain, Montagu Norman, Pavelitch, William Randolph Hearst, Streicher, Buchman, Ezra Pound, Juan March, Cocteau, Thyssen, Father Coughlin, the Mufti of Jerusalem, Arnold Lunn, Antonescu, Spengler, Beverley Nichols, Lady Houston, and Marinetti all into the same boat! But the clue is really very simple. They are all people with something to lose, or people who long for a hierarchical society and dread the prospect of a world of free and equal human beings. Behind all the ballyhoo that is talked about 'godless' Russia and the 'materialism' of the working class lies the simple intention of those with money or privileges to cling to them. Ditto, though it contains a partial truth, with all the talk about the worthlessness of social reconstruction not accompanied by a 'change of heart'. The pious ones, from the Pope to the yogis of California, are great on the' change of heart', much more reassuring from their point of view than a change in the economic system.

THE ROTHSCHILDS AS "PROPHETS"

One item stands out as a person listens to the International Bankers and reads their books. They believe money is what makes the world go round. If you have money, you can do anything. Money is "God", and it is worshipped and served. Even after these families accumulate more than can be spent, these devotees continue selling their souls for this false but powerful god. The great poet-philosopher Heinrich Heine (a Banker's son) said, "Money is the god of our time, and Rothschild is his prophet."6 Following the cue of the Rothschilds, Heinrich Heme, a Jew, signed his name by drawing a Seal of Solomon.7 Amsel Rothschild is reported to have said, "Give me control of the economics of a country; and I care not who makes her laws. ( Today his descendents meet twice daily in London to dictate to the world what the world price of gold will be. They also dictate what the "Federal Reserve System" will do with America's finances.

http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/bloodlines/rothschild.htm

Father Charles Edward Coughlin (October 25, 1891 – October 27, 1979) was a Canadian-born Roman Catholic priest at Royal Oak, Michigan's National Shrine of the Little Flower Church. He was one of the first political leaders to use radio to reach a mass audience, as more than forty million tuned to his weekly broadcasts during the 1930s. This radio program included commentary about Jews that was widely regarded as antisemitism, as well as rationalizations of some of the policies of Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini[1] that many people found objectionable. The broadcasts have been called "a variation of the Fascist agenda applied to American culture".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Coughlin

George Orwell
Toward European Unity

A Socialist today is in the position of a doctor treating an all but hopeless case. As a doctor, it is his duty to keep the patient alive, and therefore to assume that the patient has at least a chance of recovery. As a scientist, it is his duty to face the facts, and therefore to admit that the patient will probably die. Our activities as Socialists only have meaning if we assume that Socialism can be established, but if we stop to consider what probably will happen, then we must admit, I think, that the chances are against us. If I were a bookmaker, simply calculating the probabilities and leaving my own wishes out of account, I would give odds against the survival of civilization within the next few hundred years. As far as I can see, there are three possibilities ahead of us:

http://orwell.ru/library/articles/Europ ... lish/e_teu

[LatinAmericanview]

http://theinfounderground.com/ftp/lav/audio/oft18.mp3

[Anonymous]

Good show, we can't know when it will collapse, DBS has said at times it's going to likely happen by a certain time period given the "numbers", so that is a guessing game, but at times he supplements that we are in "unchartered waters" and we can't really know how things will go.  

But one thing I think we can agree on, with the influx of money created from no where via derivatives (and other fiat creation schemes), the economy has too much money, inflation will eventually hit, and the money will be worthless.  We just don't know when they will decide to make it fall.  

Maybe they want to give more PR that the government is "helping" to "prevent" the disaster, or maybe they want to inflate it and pump the money whore for all shes got and keep hiding and manipulating the "numbers" until they can't anymore...

[LatinAmericanview]

the economy has too much money, inflation will eventually hit, and the money will be worthless. We just don't know when they will decide to make it fall.

Lets put it this way- When will the ends times occur? Clearly all the signs suggest that we are close. When will the Roman Catholic Church collapse? Apostate Christians, Homosexual priests,Jewish popes- Clearly it can not last much longer! The answer is never. Faith can sustain anything indefinitely!  

Federal deposit insurance protects the first $100000 of deposits that are payable in the United States.

This is because of faith and good credit of the United States. The credit is shot! All we have is faith!  So when will people stop believing?  Suppress all real information and this thing can go on forever.



Forever!!!



   

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4000 - FDIC Advisory Opinions


Full Faith and Credit of U.S. Government Behind the FDIC Deposit Insurance Fund

FDIC-87-36
November 9, 1987
Alan J. Kaplan, Counsel

  Your October 7, 1987 letter asks whether the full faith and credit of the United States Government stands behind the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation and its deposit insurance fund. You noted that in my earlier letter to you, dated August 26, 1985, I stated that a joint resolution of Congress (H.R. Con. Res. 290) adopted in March 1982, which reaffirmed that the United States pledges its full faith and credit behind the federal deposit insurance funds, may have served as a moral pledge on the part of Congress to support the deposit insurance funds should they ever need it, but, because of its status as a non-binding resolution, did not serve to create any legal liability on the part of the United States Government to support the funds. You now ask whether Congress has passed a statute that makes the United States Government legally liable for any and all obligations of the FDIC.
  Title IX of the Competitive Equality Banking Act of 1987 ("CEBA"), signed into law by President Reagan on August 10, 1987, provides:

http://www.fdic.gov/regulations/laws/ru ... -2660.html


PLEASE PROVIDE SUPPORT FOR YOUR OPINIONS

[Anonymous]

Faith indeed.  Just like the "legal" system, it only works because we all surrender our authority to all the acts and statutes.  Stop accepting it and it goes away...

[Canard]

You summarize a brilliant and elusive point, the numbers don't add up.  Kudos on another fine voyage into insight. Off Tangent?  They wish!!!

[LatinAmericanview]

Think of it as Numerology codified.  The High priest of bullshit.  They are truly the Wizards of ZOG

[Ognir]

Keep asking the questions Latin, on our way to knowledge
Trust your lying eyes lol

Since you lived in Ireland, we say it differently
If it smells like shite ......

As for DBS/Rafeeg's numbers,   besides them, everyone would think things are great
It also about ideas and ways of moving forward imho

We have a talmudic enemy that is very much ahead of us and we are still trying to figure it out

[Roy Hobs]

LAV..............(or whoever)

I really appreciate your insights into things.  Must be the philosopher in you.  

Question for you.................

Why do you think there has been so much hype these past months from the so called "Truth Movement" to buy Gold???

There is a certain someone, who does not appear to be transparent IMO, who always says, "Buy Gold and lots of it."  

I completely agree with you that even if the so called 'numbers' points to a collapse; the Economy or Economies will ONLY collapse if they want it to.  They can keep Gold wherever they want and they can manipulate the dollar to whatever they want.  

So.............why the hype for us Goyim to buy Gold???

My paranoia says it is to rob this particular community -- namely us.  

I have 90% of my net worth in Gold and Silver.  Now I'm crapping my pants.  I wonder how many others feel as I do and if things continue, I will suffer a very large loss.

This is obviously my paranoia.  

Can you speculate in any way as to why the so called Truth Movement would push Gold as they have RELIGIOUSLY for the past year or more.  You can't escape it, the hype is everywhere.  It almost seems like a script.  

Or is it simply a way of presenting themselves as "on our side" or "trying to help us" or some other form of legitamacy.  The Pied Piper strategy/Judas Goat strategy.  

Any thoughts?

[Anonymous]

LAV..............(or whoever)

I really appreciate your insights into things.  Must be the philosopher in you.  

Question for you.................

Why do you think there has been so much hype these past months from the so called "Truth Movement" to buy Gold???

There is a certain someone, who does not appear to be transparent IMO, who always says, "Buy Gold and lots of it."  

I completely agree with you that even if the so called 'numbers' points to a collapse; the Economy or Economies will ONLY collapse if they want it to.  They can keep Gold wherever they want and they can manipulate the dollar to whatever they want.  

So.............why the hype for us Goyim to buy Gold???

My paranoia says it is to rob this particular community -- namely us.  

I have 90% of my net worth in Gold and Silver.  Now I'm crapping my pants.  I wonder how many others feel as I do and if things continue, I will suffer a very large loss.

This is obviously my paranoia.  

Can you speculate in any way as to why the so called Truth Movement would push Gold as they have RELIGIOUSLY for the past year or more.  You can't escape it, the hype is everywhere.  It almost seems like a script.  

Or is it simply a way of presenting themselves as "on our side" or "trying to help us" or some other form of legitamacy.  The Pied Piper strategy/Judas Goat strategy.  

Any thoughts?

I think what LAV was trying to put accross was that the concept of Money is an illusion, so when you talk about numbers it really doesn't matter. Faith or belief is what holds it together.

as far as gold, people will take advantage of people, scare you and move the herd. I think having silver coins and food supply is not a bad thing, but just listen to the advertisements on patriot radio. cue scary music
these are the end of days - buy gold - the world is going to end - buy gold.

now when you say you have 90% in gold and silver do you have the metal in hand or in paper in the market?

if in hand you better have a gun to protect it.

if paper on stock market you are gambling, just cash out and head to vegas

[Anonymous]

you'd have to define collapse to predict it... the way I see it, it's all an illusion and everything has been suspended in mid-air for about a century, waiting to fall.

[LatinAmericanview]

you'd have to define collapse to predict it... the way I see it, it's all an illusion and everything has been suspended in mid-air for about a century, waiting to fall.

Ding, DIng, DIng, We have a winner! Actually It goes much further then that; however, my interest is specific. How could anyone make predictions about something like that? Hell how could they be six months ahead of the curve in finanacial predictions?  I think that it is not all bullshit - there is some sort of loose correspondence to reality but not much. Let me leave you with this.

If Rothschild had the absolute power to set the price of gold every morning, then how could anyone predict his behaviour? And by extension the price of gold?

So how could DBS be leading the pack?  What are his conclusions based on?

[LatinAmericanview]

Hey guys I want to merge a couple of different threads.  This is from WUFYS



hmmmm... Guess what they are beliefs also.

 

Although the corporations audits were thrown into doubt with the Enron/Anderson scandal, I still place some trust in the GAO; If only because they are still coming out with reports that would be highly damaging to the government if anyone in Congress were paying attention.

I have come to the conclusion that 1984 happened in 1948.  I simply have no faith in government.

    So while we are near to the 1984 world where ALL the numbers are lies, I don't think we are quite there yet. Some of the numbers are still correct. But you are right to question which numbers are correct. Marlowe

Lets say that is true. Could you tell what those numbers are?

   

Someone that I know makes software that tracks shipping containers. He says that the overall numbers of these containers are way down. So, to use your other analogy, there is snow falling on the ground.

This claim I would take seriously.  However, I wonder what part we play in this self fulfilling prophesy? Kinda like a false rumor.  Rumors or speculation have and do effect the market.  hmmmm... Guess what they are beliefs also.

LatinAmericanview | Sat, 2008-08-16 23:10

It's Good to be Skeptical

and it's good to look at sources, especially when you are getting info from people you don't trust.

Looking at your point again, it does make a lot of sense. Above all, we must be skeptical when dealing with factual matters.

LAV said: "[H]ow can anyone [come] to know something like an impending economic collapse based on numbers provided by people who an interest in deceiving us and have a history of deception?"

Your inclusion of Winston dealing with a succession of fictitious numbers of shoes is particularly apropos. None of those numbers had any factual basis, so they meant nothing.

In our current system, we are dealing with several groups of liars: the government(s); the Fed (and all the central banks); and corporations. Supposedly there are independent auditors: the GAO for the government; corporations have independent auditors; and the Fed is audited regularly by a guild of Goblins.

Although the corporations audits were thrown into doubt with the Enron/Anderson scandal, I still place some trust in the GAO; If only because they are still coming out with reports that would be highly damaging to the government if anyone in Congress were paying attention.

So while we are near to the 1984 world where ALL the numbers are lies, I don't think we are quite there yet. Some of the numbers are still correct. But you are right to question which numbers are correct.

Someone that I know makes software that tracks shipping containers. He says that the overall numbers of these containers are way down. So, to use your other analogy, there is snow falling on the ground.

-----------------------

"Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly."
Christopher Marlowe | Sat, 2008-08-16 22:55
Exactly

   

I would say that the end cannot be postponed FOREVER by Faith. I believe that God will determine the end.

In other words, it is not knowable?  I think you miss my point- how can anyone can to know something like an impending economic collapse based on numbers provided by people who an interest in deceiving us and have a history of deception?  I remain skeptical.
LatinAmericanview | Sat, 2008-08-16 21:34

To Use Your metaphor

I would say that the end cannot be postponed FOREVER by Faith. I believe that God will determine the end.

I agree that there are so many signs that point to the end times. But we can't stop the end by refusing to recognize it. God, in His infinite Mercy, will end things when He sees fit.

(Out of curiosity, are you interpreting the Awful Horror of Mk 13:14 as the perversion of the Catholic faith?)

As this metaphor applies to economics, I'm sure the faith of the people is a large factor, but faith alone cannot control the outcome of the markets. We are not in control there either.

I suppose the situation could be one where the truth is completely suppressed, as in 1984: everyone is impoverished, nothing is created, and no one officially recognizes that there has been a crash. But that would require a radical redefinition of the term. It always comes down to terms.

I would define a market crash as: a major loss of wealth, or redistribution of wealth, from the majority of the people; severe unemployment, and large amounts of business failures and home foreclosures.

I would say if we have these things, there has been a crash, no matter what AP or Reuters says.

It is my belief that Bernanke is trying to bring everything down at once, so that the market continues despite the loss of wealth. He has shown an intent to solve market failures by applying liquidity. I suppose that by preventing a liquidity crisis, everyone will continue lending, and not as many businesses will close. This will avoid a catastrophic collapse on Wall Street, and people will keep their jobs.

The ending in that situation is just a dollar that is worth .25 in 2000 dollars. It appears that the central banks are aiding in this plan by buying dollars, which would bring their currencies down as well. By suppressing the gold price, they are hoping to stop the flight from stocks, and everyone can look at the Dow and think, "It's not that bad. The Dow is still above 10,000."

Perhaps this is what you are getting at. This soft landing plan, where all the middle class are equally impoverished. Perhaps that is what you mean by the non-recognition of a market collapse, and the retention of faith.

Perhaps this sort of soft landing is possible. In my definition of a crash, it would be missing some of the factors. I think we both see that there would be no more free market at that point. Maybe we're already there. It seems like a slow descent into communism without a shot being fired.

Maybe Orwell should have written "2014".

-----------------------

"Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly."
Christopher Marlowe | Sat, 2008-08-16 07:29
Faith

 

"On July 16, 2008 . . . , the Federal Reserve reported holding $2,349 billion of US government paper in custody for central banks. In its report released today, this amount had grown over the past three weeks to $2,401 billion, a 38.4% annual rate of growth. . . ."

Who is providing these numbers? Mathematical theories need numbers and those number need to co response to reality. I suggested that the numbers don't matter. However we do agree that the TPTB will determine when. HOWEVER, the when is partly determined by way the Masses can psychologically accept and justify the calamity.  Here is quote from and thread on my show:

   

the economy has too much money, inflation will eventually hit, and the money will be worthless. We just don't know when they will decide to make it fall. Azixx

Lets put it this way- When will the ends times occur? Clearly all the signs suggest that we are close. When will the Roman Catholic Church collapse? Apostate Christians, Homosexual priests,Jewish popes- Clearly it can not last much longer! The answer is never. Faith can sustain anything indefinitely! This is because of faith and good credit of the United States. The credit is shot! All we have is faith! So when will people stop believing? Suppress all real information and this thing can go on forever.

Forever!!!

 

.

 

4000 - FDIC Advisory Opinions

 

Full Faith and Credit of U.S. Government Behind the FDIC Deposit Insurance Fund

 

    FDIC-87-36
    November 9, 1987
    Alan J. Kaplan, Counsel

    Your October 7, 1987 letter asks whether the full faith and credit of the United States Government stands behind the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation and its deposit insurance fund. You noted that in my earlier letter to you, dated August 26, 1985, I stated that a joint resolution of Congress (H.R. Con. Res. 290) adopted in March 1982, which reaffirmed that the United States pledges its full faith and credit behind the federal deposit insurance funds, may have served as a moral pledge on the part of Congress to support the deposit insurance funds should they ever need it, but, because of its status as a non-binding resolution, did not serve to create any legal liability on the part of the United States Government to support the funds. You now ask whether Congress has passed a statute that makes the United States Government legally liable for any and all obligations of the FDIC.
    Title IX of the Competitive Equality Banking Act of 1987 ("CEBA"), signed into law by President Reagan on August 10, 1987, provides:

http://www.fdic.gov/regulations/laws/ru ... -2660.html

 

LatinAmericanview | Sat, 2008-08-16 04:30

Interesting Point RE: Faith in the System

What is LAV doing on WUFYS? I thought I banned him last week. (ho ho)

LAV makes an interesting point about the imminent crash. I will attempt to summarize: The numbers don't matter. The system won't crash unless the powers LET IT. In response, I would say yes and no.

I think The Powers That Be (TPTB; I thought writing THEY all the time was making me start to look paranoid.) are going to crash the system, just like in '29, but they are going to put it off until the time is convenient for them.

This sort of makes LAV's point moot, or at least unprovable. If the system crashes, we are still left wondering whether: they CAUSED the crash at a time when TPTB were holding all the REAL assets; or they just knew when the game was up and grabbed all the good stuff.

I think there is a lot of power in the central banks, but they cannot get around the flaw in their own system: interest. Interest is the BEAST. The economy is required to create more money to feed the ever-growing interest. The amount of interest owed is worsened by the practice of fractional lending, which allows more of a debt-beast to be created from the same amount of capital.

The debt-beast grows and grows. It is never paid off, rather more debt is created to pay down the debt. It is like a drug habit. It is never satisfied, but rather the tolerance is increased, so that more and more of the drug is needed to get that high. Desperate for cash, the junkie soon finds himself on the street, hungry and alone, offering to do sordid things for European Central Bankers. I believe people cook up many of these hare-brained money schemes (e.g. CDOs) not only because of greed, but out of desperation to turn a profit in the fact of the ever growing debt.

It seems to me that the Kondratieff cycle is based on the fact that system becomes rife with bad credit over time. This bad credit has to be burned out of the system. Why does bad credit build up? Why does the debt become unsustainable? Because the ever growing debt-beast. Because of Interest. Why does every major religion say Usury is a sin? Why do Bishops wear yarmulkes? Why do dogs get mad when you blow in their face?

Long tangent to say that the cycle is unavoidable. The music will stop, and those without chairs will be out of the game. But TPTB can make sure they have all the chairs.

It's interesting that, as I was listening to your show, I opened this post by Ellen Brown, who I believe has been posted here at WUFYS before.

http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/wag_the_dog.php

Ellen describes the situation at the beginning of her article this way:

"Last week, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had just announced record losses, and so had most reporting corporations. Unemployment was mounting, the foreclosure crisis was deepening, state budgets were in shambles, and massive bailouts were everywhere. Investors had every reason to expect the dollar and the stock market to plummet, and gold and oil to shoot up. Strangely, the Dow Jones Industrial Average gained 300 points, the dollar strengthened, and gold and oil were crushed. What happened?"

What happened indeed? She notes the presence of the Plunge Protection Team, who guarantee the stability of the Ponzi Scheme, I mean the Dow. Ellen also quotes James Turk from Goldmoney, who credited the wall street rebound to intervention: "Central banks have propped up the dollar, and here's the proof.

"When central banks intervene in the currency markets, they exchange their currency for dollars. Central banks then use the dollars they acquire to buy US government debt instruments so that they can earn interest on their money. The debt instruments central banks acquire are held in custody for them at the Federal Reserve, which reports this amount weekly.

"On July 16, 2008 . . . , the Federal Reserve reported holding $2,349 billion of US government paper in custody for central banks. In its report released today, this amount had grown over the past three weeks to $2,401 billion, a 38.4% annual rate of growth. . . ."

I had seen Turk's article before and it seemed to explain a lot. Of course, I don't know much.

But Ellen Brown goes on to note that while central banks can manipulate currencies, gold and oil and virtually "any other market....markets can be manipulated by only so much and for only so long without fixing the underlying problem. There is more bad news coming down the pike, news of such magnitude that no amount of ordinary manipulation is liable to conceal it."

What is it that they say about Great Minds? I forget, but I am in concordance with Ellen Brown. TPTB will LET the market fall, but they will let it fall because inherent flaws (Interest) make it unsustainable.

-----------------------

"Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly."

[sirbadman]

This podcast was seriously cuckoo. Only one valid point was made in my opinion, being where are Rafeeq and DBS getting their stats? But think about this... details on up-to-date financial info costs money. I'll use an example. Say If the S&P 500 gets to an average PE of over 21 then there is a good chance a crash may occur "at some time" in the future. As other crashes have happened at or above that level. Yet the latest weekly info on the S&P 500 average PE is not available for free on the net. You cannot post a link to that. You can get the PE averages say from six months ago at the latest available for free.

If Rafeeq is a financial insider, and i believe he is, he would have access to the latest financial figures not freely available, that is available through various services. To provide that info willy nilly would be like stealing the info and would be breaking terms and conditions of that service and could also make DBS and Rafeeq face legal action. This is my logical conclusion on why they do not provide data sometimes. However, there are figures on the massive amount of trillions out there that are in the derviatives markets that will give you all an indication of how overly leveraged the whole world is right now and this has also been discussed on DBS and Rafeeq shows.

I believe all this numbers stuff Latin has taken out of context from the DBS show.

The numbers do matter. I'll try to explain this. I'll also remind you all on previous DBS and Rafeeq shows the latter has said the numbers dont add up when reffering to JPMorgan Chase and that company's twice now "better than expected" results which might be why there are implications made to Enron. Rafeeq has oftens said there is no way out of a financial meltdown.

I'll assume we all know inflation is sky-high and above the official inflation levels, if you dont believe this is the case then you dont go outside or something.

When companies and banks owe a severe amount of money, which they cannot possibly pay back (because they lost it from subprime related stuff), they will not be able to pay their creditors off, whether they be mutual fund groups that lent them the money or whatever. If they have too much money owing they are insolvent. DBS and Rafeeq say a lot of companies are insolvent but are still trading because the lenders are too scared at this stage to demand the money back (yet), perhaps fearing what it might do to their own stock/fund price when they have mark down their assets columns.

Since they have started their analysis last year they have been proven right about their assessment of world economic conditions. There have been major bank collapses such as IndyMac, that big french bank lost a lot of billion, there are the British bank collapses, there is the Bear Stearns one, all this stuff has happened after they started talking about it.

Clearly a lot of people have lost investment dollars from the devaluation of the US property market and its related debt-securities. This has caused panic in the market and has caused loans to dry up severely. This led to action, starting from last year with central banks around the world providing liquidity to banks and other groups so there was lending money still floating around the world. Of course the Fed has continued this stuff throughout this year. Because we have a debt-based financial system new money must be introduced to keep enough money flowing throughout the world economies. A depression is simply caused by a lack of money supply. Now when DBS and Rafeeq say the numbers dont add up on previous shows, maybe they mean the losses are so big they are larger than the actual GDPs of leading nations. This means that central banks cannot possibly introduce enough money to recover the smashed lending markets (all the lenders who got burned by subprime cant or wont lend anymore) to make up for the amount of losses made by banks and other lenders. Even if they did, it would trigger massive inflation. Already a lot of inflation has been caused this year by central banks introducing more currency into the world economies. Lacking food and fuel supply have added to this of course, there are various different reasons involved there.

So basically the financial meltdown is impending. It will either be massive hyperinflation or it will be a depression. The bond markets and money lending markets have been in dissarray for almost a year now. Companies that need to borrow money to maintain operations or to fuel more growth are having problems either finding finance in the first place, or finding affordable finance, as anyone who knows anything about stocks would know. This kind of stuff is released to market in announcements all the time these days. This will utlimately mean that more companies will become insolvent.

Now the latest DBS and Raffeq shows have said the Fed has reached its upper limit of the new currency it can introduce for the year. The Fed could maybe break this rule and continue to print more bills, resulting in the hyperinflation scenario, or they will stop. If the central banks stop propping up the system then the crap will hit the fan as lending markets will have nothing else to support them. Lending will drop off. There will be less money in circulation. More companies will go bust. More people will not have jobs. Less money again. It is a depression. Either way it is a financial meltdown.

On the "faith" stuff brought up by Latin, faith in terms of the currency meant acceptance of use as a medium of exchange and to pay taxes. Yes money matters because you need it to live unless you have you have an independent substinence farm or something. The numbers clearly do matter. The numbers put out by enron were fake, and maybe dbs and rafeeq were suggesting the numbers by other financial institutions were of the same elk, meaning they meant to say "the numbers these companies are releasing to the public do not matter", as they are deceptive of the real fiscal position they are facing.    

Lastly, all financial markets have manipulation and predicting the future is therefore incredibly difficult! Both DBS and Rafeeq have said they are suprised how long the impending financial doom has been delayed. But it is inevitable. This current drop in the gold price, which is apparently about 60% or so owned by institutions such as the European Central Bank, could be the result of manipulation. If you sell 7% of the world's gold now you can push the price low then you can buy it back up before the really bad financial news comes out and watch your profits soar as gold shoots up again.

The oil price drop smacks of manipulation as well. It has honestly dropped on the back of US Energy reports and a Chinese report of a drop in demand or something. The chinese stock market got smashed recently by the way.

Latin you need to watch "the money masters" again. You need to make your points more succinctly. That thermometer analogy was very laboured. You should ask DBS questions yourself before making a podcast such as you have. It really was a slice and dice job and a piece of misinfo but i dont think it was deliberate.  

Disclaimer: all of the above should only be considered my opinion.

[LatinAmericanview]

I think it is always important to show all comments. Good and Bad.  Additionally Sirbadman could you record your comment and I will incorporate it into the next show. Abdul Jabbaar the same applies to you and anyone wishing to voice and opinion.

One Response to ""Off Tangent Show" # 18 with your host Latin"

   1.
      Abdul Jabbaar Says:
      August 17, 2008 at 6:58 pm e

      Enjoyed listening to your show. I wished to clarify on the central issue of predictions and the basis for those predictions that you discuss on your show. Daryl tries to give time frames to predictions. Muhammad Rafeeq however tries to avoid giving time frames to predictions preferring instead to say that while something is inevitable it is not possible to give a precise time frame for it. There are two examples of this that are given over a series of audio files with Daryl as the events unfolded back in December 2007 to May 2008. Muhammad Rafeeq is himself a professional financial analyist who has access to company reports and accounts not easily understood by the general public. He also understands the regulatory regime for international banks.

      The first example was the case of the MBIA - AMBAC Bond Insurance Companies. In December 2007 Muhammad Rafeeq stated that the down grading by the rating agencies of these two companies was an inevitability otherwise the rating agencies would lose all credibility. The basis for this prediction was the financial situation of these companies which demonstrated that the companies were not worthy of the ratings given to them by these rating agencies. The companies were in fact over-rated. It was fraudulent to give these companies a triple A rating when the financial situation made it clear they were not worthy of such a status. It was only a matter of time before they were down-graded. Muhammad Rafeeq however avoided giving any specific time frame to when that would happen as it is impossible for him to predict timing, especially given the fact that the Zionist banking network is trying to buy time in order to rescue themselves from the current collapse.

      The second example is the case of The Royal Bank of Scotland. Again in December 2007 Muhammad Rafeeq was saying that The Royal Bank of Scotland would have to raise cash with a RIghts issue or something similar, to raise the capital to balance its solvency ratio. This position was also supported by a senior financial analyst within Credit Suisse. In response to this analysis the CEO of Royal Bank of Scotland made a public statement that was reported in all the UK mainstream media that the banks position was financially sound and that there was not going to be a RIghts issue on the banks shareholders. Two months after this statement the same CEO publically announced that there was going to be a RIghts issue to raise 5 billion pounds to balance its solvency ratio.

      Both these examples illustrate that Muhammad Rafeeq has given the basis for the prediction, which is professional financial publications and not mainstream media. He almost always avoids giving any specific time frames for these predictions. Peace, AJ.

[LatinAmericanview]

Correct me if I am wrong but the Money masters video placed blame of the contraction of the money supply as the reason for the crash. I believe that was also stated in 1933?? Silver Commission Report.  Civilization requires a means of exacting complex transaction.  Less physical money hindered that.  Today, we have not idea how much money is out there! Those reports have not been printed in several years.  However, I am expected to believe that an insider has broken ranks and is letting out the real numbers.  Just for starters that would require a small team to look at the world economic numbers and we would have to assume the numbers are real. The best way to explain this is that different rule sets are used at various times.  Moreover the rules sets are implement randomly but they are established rules so people have developed systems that have some predictive value for a specific rule set in a given environment.  Hence various dupes assume that their models work but not perfectly since human behavior is not always rational. This again is bullshit since the psychology has progressed light years and yet we are o closer to understanding rational self interest. Lastly, all this can be trumped by the golden rule.   I will address this point in my next show.

He who has the gold makes the rules.


Or at least sets the price!

[GordZilla]

Correct me if I am wrong but the Money masters video placed blame of the contraction of the money supply as the reason for the crash. I believe that was also stated in 1933?? Silver Commission Report.  Civilization requires a means of exacting complex transaction.  Less physical money hindered that.  Today, we have not idea how much money is out there! Those reports have not been printed in several years.  However, I am expected to believe that an insider has broken ranks and is letting out the real numbers.  Just for starters that would require a small team to look at the world economic numbers and we would have to assume the numbers are real. The best way to explain this is that different rule sets are used at various times.  Moreover the rules sets are implement randomly but they are established rules so people have developed systems that have some predictive value for a specific rule set in a given environment.  Hence various dupes assume that their models work but not perfectly since human behavior is not always rational. This again is bullshit since the psychology has progressed light years and yet we are o closer to understanding rational self interest. Lastly, all this can be trumped by the golden rule.   I will address this point in my next show.

He who has the gold makes the rules.


Or at least sets the price!

Good show Latin,

Indeed a very excellent question you posed of DBS. Money is indeed fiction, you can't simply admit that then start making 'real' predictions based of fictional numbers. It's that simple really, but rather a hard concept to explain when you mix in all the economic newspeak. You did it justice. Problem is; fictional or not, it's not just debtors that put their faith into it, it is also their creditors. They just might one day wish to collect real wealth based on this fiction of theirs.  A very critical mind you must possess to have noticed DBS and Rafeeq have economic predictions which must be explained further. Either that or they should confess to insider knowledge.

 As far as your post above, before you explain 'the golden rule', don't forget you left us hanging with your opinion on Father Coughlin.  

-Gord

[Abdul Jabaar]

Both DBS and Rafeeq have said they are suprised how long the impending financial doom has been delayed

Daryl is maybe surprised how long this is taking but Muhammad Rafeeq is not. And Muhammad Rafeeq says if it were not for the intervention the financial system would have already collapsed. But their intervention is at the highest levels globally and is coordinated at the highest levels between central and private zionist banks, who instruct the heads of governments on how to sell their solutions to their publics.
Muhammad Rafeeq is very well known among the UK Muslim community and I feel sure that he would be happy to address valid questions on Latin's show that have been raised. Peace, AJ.

[LatinAmericanview]

That is a good idea. We will submit a question. Hopefully Mr. Smith or Rafiqic can respond.  However, I also understand how busy and difficult they are to reach.

[Abdul Jabaar]

If you think thats a good idea, lets see if we can arrange a contact. I will see what I can do. By the way I listened to you on Ognir's show which I liked. And you are correct I think in saying that Daryl is about having listeners who think for themselves rather than just blindly accepting the information he has been making available. Also your point about Father Coughlin and the large number of listeners that he is reported as having had and the apparent failure to have any meaningful impact, was interesting. This I think may come down to what you said about those who do not act on the information. So someone may accept that TV is bad but they continue to watch it. And some of the excuses make me laugh. I myself got rid of my TV 15 years ago. Instead I prefer starring at a wall I think. Far more healthy although would probably result in the men in white coats turning up! Peace, AJ.

[Ognir]

Our buddy Tony has been following this thread and has posted one himself on his site
http://anthonyhmura.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... ll-ob.html

The following book (Pdf) adds much information and counterbalance to George Orwell's observations about the Spanish Civil War. Orwell's statements on the causes of that Civil War are shown to be lacking, when checked with facts contained in following resource:

"Pawns in the Game", by William Guy Carr in 1958.
See chapters 12, 13 and 14
12 - The Spanish Revolution
13 - The Civil War in Spain
14 - Franco

As for Orwell's statements on anti-Communists below, Fr. Charles Coughlin alone did more for labor than any communist or Zionist labor-infiltrator (such as Jimmy Hoffa). And only Zionists and their lackies make the kinds of accusations made against Coughlin in his day, and today at wikipedia.

* Read Coughlin's own answer: "Am I an Anti-Semite?"
* Hear Fr. Coughlin's speech "For the Laboring Man" here, dispelling Orwell's Communist projection that Coughlin was more concerned with money and power than what's good for the people.

In the above-linked labor speech, Coughlin he takes on phony hit-pieces from the Amerian Jewish Committee and other Zionist watchdogs, who were trying to make the same kinds of claims that ORWELL IS MAKING - that Fr. Coughlin was against Labor interests and merely serving the powers that be. The fact is, only the powers that be themselves were making such accusations. The rest of America was only to happy to listen and learn from "the Radio Priest."

* In light of the fact that even Jimmy Hoffa (according to his son) turned out to be a big Zionist, running weaponry to "Israel's" early terrorist groups, Coughlin is all the more vindicated in his warnings against Judeo-Capitialists infiltration of the Zionist movement (in the form of Zio-Communist labor organizers, agents etc).

*********
Here are Orwell's statements on the Spanish Civil War (which again, in comparison to evidence in "Pawns in the Game", is inadequate). Remember that both Orwell and Koestler were themselves employed as propagandists:

"The struggle for power between the Spanish Republican parties is an unhappy, far-off thing which I have no wish to revive at this date. I only mention it in order to say: believe nothing, or next to nothing, of what you read about internal affairs on the Government side. It is all, from whatever source, party propaganda — that is to say, lies. The broad truth about the war is simple enough. The Spanish bourgeoisie saw their chance of crushing the labour movement, and took it, aided by the Nazis and by the forces of reaction all over the world. It is doubtful whether more than that will ever be established.

I remember saying once to Arthur Koestler, 'History stopped in 1936', at which he nodded in immediate understanding. We were both thinking of totalitarianism in general, but more particularly of the Spanish civil war. Early in life I have noticed that no event is ever correctly reported in a newspaper, but in Spain, for the first time, I saw newspaper reports which did not bear any relation to the facts, not even the relationship which is implied in an ordinary lie. I saw great battles reported where there had been no fighting, and complete silence where hundreds of men had been killed. I saw troops who had fought bravely denounced as cowards and traitors, and others who had never seen a shot fired hailed as the heroes of imaginary victories; and I saw newspapers in London retailing these lies and eager intellectuals building emotional superstructures over events that had never happened. I saw, in fact, history being written not in terms of what happened but of what ought to have happened according to various 'party lines'.

When one thinks of all the people who support or have supported Fascism, one stands amazed at their diversity. What a crew! Think of a programme which at any rate for a while could bring Hitler, Petain, Montagu Norman, Pavelitch, William Randolph Hearst, Streicher, Buchman, Ezra Pound (who's "provocateur" would Pound have been?), Juan March, Cocteau, Thyssen, Father Coughlin, the Mufti of Jerusalem, Arnold Lunn, Antonescu, Spengler, Beverley Nichols, Lady Houston, and Marinetti all into the same boat! But the clue is really very simple. They are all people with something to lose, or people who long for a hierarchical society and dread the prospect of a world of free and equal human beings. Behind all the ballyhoo that is talked about 'godless' Russia and the 'materialism' of the working class lies the simple intention of those with money or privileges to cling to them.

[Anonymous]

I am going to reread pawns in the game, because it has been awhile.

What a crew! Think of a programme which at any rate for a while could bring Hitler, Petain, Montagu Norman, Pavelitch, William Randolph Hearst, Streicher, Buchman, Ezra Pound (who's "provocateur" would Pound have been?), Juan March, Cocteau, Thyssen, Father Coughlin, the Mufti of Jerusalem, Arnold Lunn, Antonescu, Spengler, Beverley Nichols, Lady Houston, and Marinetti all into the same boat! But the clue is really very simple. They are all people with something to lose, or people who long for a hierarchical society and dread the prospect of a world of free and equal human beings. Behind all the ballyhoo that is talked about 'godless' Russia and the 'materialism' of the working class lies the simple intention of those with money or privileges to cling to them.

but until then this is what I shall say.

Orwell's statement is not false. Orwell was a troskyite and believed in the Ideals of communism, and fought for the communists against Franco. The ideals never seem to hold up and decay into solialized economic democracy, but he believed in the ideals none the less even after all his disappointments in communism.

The list above clearly states:

They are all people with something to lose, or people who long for a hierarchical society and dread the prospect of a world of free and equal human beings.

if you look at each individual on the list, they all have something to lose. Ideals other then Orwell's beliefs, but ideologies none the less be they good, evil or ugly.

The keyword in the second half of the quote is "OR" meaning they were in the first group or the second group. Orwell did not indicate which group the individuals fell into.

or people who long for a hierarchical society and dread the prospect of a world of free and equal human beings.

as far as Father Coughlin, one has to ask what did he have to lose, but the most important message you should get is that he had millions of listeners and look at where we are today. Think about our numbers and Think about the numbers he had that were informed. Now think about what has to be done differently, otherwise in 50+ years time human beings, if there are any left maybe listening to Ognir audio files and asking the same questions. With all their information and members, why weren't they able to make any changes to the ruling class.

As far as the money system numbers - It's an illusion within an illusion.

prospect of a world of free and equal human beings

This is what we have today - communism in the guise of democracy - many in Orwell's list fought against this, but they were fighting for their Ideals. However, one must wonder if this prospect of a world of free and equal human beings is what Orwell had hoped for.

both Orwell and Koestler were themselves employed as propagandists

we might be onto something here.

would not this statement render the 13th tribe useless unless other sources could be found? It's a shocking thing to think about.

[Abdul Jabaar]

Latin,
I have now spoken to Muhammad Rafeeq and he would be happy to do a show with you. Have you got a contact that I can pass on to him. Maybe an email address? Peace, AJ.

[joeblow]

Latin ma raH yif@il akthar shows. yriid yiktib fard kitaab.

[LatinAmericanview]

The book that Koestler wrote apart about this, Spanish Testament, has remarkable passages, but apart from the scrappiness that is usual in a book of reportage, it is definitely false in places.

http://orwell.ru/people/koestler/ak_en