TiU Radio - 3rd Oct - Drive n'Rant - The Debate

[Ognir]

The Info Underground
TiU Radio

Date Friday 3rd October 2008
Hosted by Ognir

While I'm driving in France I did a 15 min rant about Eric John Phelps
and the proposed Debate between the 2 of us.

Direct Download
http://theinfounderground.com/archives/ ... Debate.mp3

[Anonymous]

Dearest Ognir

I won't try to stop you from debating EJP, but consider this before you do

If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way.
 
    Bertrand Russell

EJP - is basing his entire premise of Jesuits, from his beliefs.

he is a protestant and must protest the Vatican.

Also consider that much of his evidence is based on the "old world order"

I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong.

    Bertrand Russell

It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this.
 
    Bertrand Russell

But if I can't convince you that it would be a distraction for you to even debating this arse-clown, I will help you if you so wish.

Apparently the Palestinians moved to Israel after Israel became an official country. Also if EJP is so convinced that the Jesuits want to rebuild the temple, why wouldn't he support the Palestinians, because to support the Jews would be falling into the Jesuits evil plan.
 
http://theinfounderground.com/ftp/savag ... inians.mp3

Apparently the sun revolves around the earth as the earth stands still. I would love to see the evidence of this. I know he quotes the bible as proof.

http://theinfounderground.com/ftp/savag ... jp-sun.mp3

here EJP admits that his info on JFK is incomplete, and needs to be revised to deal with the Israeli involvement

http://theinfounderground.com/ftp/savage/debate/ejp.mp3

To me this is a silly thing, if they are criminals they are criminals, Jews. Jesuits, High level - Free Masons, Knights of the Toilet, etc.....

anyway good luck

[Ognir]

Thanks for the clips John, Phelps is a fool and talks some amount of shite

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

You might ask him about Masada. Why did "God" even let the Jews "start" wandering after 70 AD?  Why did God let a Goyim country like Rome defeat "God's" Jewish nation? Becaue they killed Jesus? -- You have a lot of logical room here to play "God's" Kingdom on Earth back then with God's Kingdom on Earth today that murders people.   You can ask questions like:  "Where is it in the bible that they have a right back to the land in the 20th century if they were kicked out by "God?" in 70AD?". Or play the Jew nationality against Jew nationality with God:  "What about the Jews in Babylon? Why was the Talmud written there instead of in Israel? "
Then throw in a little bit about a Jewish Jesus denouncing the Jewish scholars as snakes: "Why were the Pharisees allowed to spread their Babylonian temple practices across the world after their defeat by the Romans? Isn't this what Jesus denounced? Didn't he attack the Jewish idolators in their temple? What is different between that temple and the Rothschild Temple in Israel today?"

Go straight to the throat with him:
"Why did Jews even convert to Chrisitianity if "God" is going to save the Murderous Kosher state of Israel?" or "Why did Jesus have to die if the Jews are going to rule the world from Blood money Modern Israel today?". Why didn't God just let the Jews continue ruling the country from ancient times?

Or "Why does Israel attack Palestinian Christians in Israel proper today? Why does "God" allow this to continue?"

Basically, prove modern Israel doesn't represent the "Clean Bride"  that God would present his Son.  

Maybe go a little apocalyptic:
"Why did John on the island of Patmos and the other prophets even look to the return of Jesus when the Roman Province of Judea existed? Why didn't the Apostles lead a revolt against Herod starting in Jerusalem? What's the difference between the Ancient Romans and the Modern Palestinians under the eyes of God?"

The problem with these types is that if you mix real historical records, archeaology, biblical eschatology and then throw in how the criminal modern state of Israel came into existance -- and then add a touch of moral logic -- they are lost.   They either skip around or come back with nothing. They can't reconcile the New Testament, Old Testament, Prophecy, the Modern State of Israel and the actual devastation of old Israel in 70AD.  Modern Israel is a "False Prophet" simply on moral grounds alone  -- I'd hammer away at this one.

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

Balance what I said above with this Jew penned clip that papers over the History.  You might ask why have there been so many false Jewish Messiahs over the years and is Jesus just another False Messiah like the Jews then and today see him. Then, is the Israeli State a False Messiah? How does he know?

http://jewsforjesus.org/publications/is ... stronghold

[Steve McQueen]

To address Mr. CrackSmokeRepublicans somewhat rhetorical questions:

1.  The Jews rejected their Messiah in the same way a 40 year old Moses was rejected by his people and he took a Gentile bride (Zipporah).  These are the days of the Gentiles, the Church Age, the Age of Grace... a parenthesis between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel, where the Lord has taken a Gentile bride AKA the mystical Body of Christ.  The genuine (Sephardic) Jews, numbering only about 3,000,000, will be revisited and brought into the Good Land after the time of Jacob's trouble (the Great Tribulation).

2.  Rome was permitted to destroy Jerusalem and the Jew Temple because it had outlived its function as God's testimony on the earth.  The spirit of individual believers is now His temple, 'made without hands'.

3.  The Jews have no right to the Good Land until their rejected Messiah leads them back in, at the end of Daniel's 70th Week.

4.  The Talmud was written in Babylon during the time of the Jews' captivity which combined the Eastern mystery and Egyptian religions and produced a Pharisee class to ensure the Jews would adhere to the Mosaic law and thus (presumably) prevent a further judgment and expulsion by God in the future.  The Babylonian (devilish) environment was needed to produce a document that would ensure an elite class of psychopaths to control the masses and continue criminal Jew influence regardless of any religious/political/economic outcome.

5.  Organized religion always provides a haven for all sorts of unclean birds to inhabit the upper branches and poop on everybody below.  Our Lord warned that the APPEARANCE of the Kingdom of the Heavens is like a grain of mustard seed which would grow into a great tree.  The great tree of Christendumb demonstrates the abnormal growth (i.e. a man growing into an elephant) that we're seen over the last 2000 years.  A mustard plant is very small and good for food.  This is not what we see and experience in the 1500 or so denominations (i.e. divisions - to keep everyone squabbling) today.  In the Book of the Acts they met in homes ('house to house') in a small, genuine way.  We need to return to this simplicity... but won't.  

6.  God allows the crimes against humanity to continue because this is Man's day.  The manifestation of the REALITY of the Kingdom of the Heavens (righteousness reigning on the earth) will not happen until the return of the Son of Man.

7.  The apostles did not lead a revolt against Herod since God's concern just now is not so much the 'outward' Caesar of the tyranny of this material world but rather the 'inner' Caesar of Mankind's sin.  This was the Jews' mistake in seeking a Messiah who would deliver them from the Romans.  The battle is not against flesh and blood but rather principalities and powers, which is why I strongly recommend getting off the flypaper of civilization and disappearing into the mountains until this sorry JWO affair is over ('the whole world lieth in the wicked one').  God will slam the criminals into the concrete fer sure, but He's waiting for the fulness of the Gentiles and the cup of His wrath to be filled against those whose hearts are set on evil.

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

Interesting comments with a few exceptions noted Steve M. Below are replies. :

--------

1. The Jews rejected their Messiah in the same way a 40 year old Moses was rejected by his people and he took a Gentile bride (Zipporah). These are the days of the Gentiles, the Church Age, the Age of Grace... a parenthesis between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel, where the Lord has taken a Gentile bride AKA the mystical Body of Christ. The genuine (Sephardic) Jews, numbering only about 3,000,000, will be revisited and brought into the Good Land after the time of Jacob's trouble (the Great Tribulation).

Interesting, but does it reconcile? The "Good Land" or if you like, "the land of Goshen" where is that land? On the earth? On a map? If so, where?  Did not John see a "remnant" coming from all the people? What indicates that these will be solely Sephardic Torah Jews? The Menorah is a Pagan symbol of the Sephardic Jews as seen in the Arch of Titus and most of the Sephardic Jews are as Pagan in practice as they were in the 70AD today. The very general that "God" used to destroy the temple was Roman Sephardic Jew. This is logically a massive stumbling block.    

2. Rome was permitted to destroy Jerusalem and the Jew Temple because it had outlived its function as God's testimony on the earth. The spirit of individual believers is now His temple, 'made without hands'.

But that's not what the Jews of the 2nd Temple believed, nor the Sephardic Jews (mostly descendants of Gentile Converts of the Roman and Greek eras) believe today. Modern Israel is full of a mix of genes from the far reaches of the Khazar, Turkic, Ssassanid, British, Roman and Greek empires  -- how will the Wheat be separated from the Chaff so to speak, or the Talumudics from the Torahic Jews? By genetics? By the Right of Return?  By force of arms?

3. The Jews have no right to the Good Land until their rejected Messiah leads them back in, at the end of Daniel's 70th Week.

How many days have transpired since the fall of the 2nd Temple? Will the "rejected Messiah" lead a "race" of Jews or a "nation" of Jews?  Both Talmudic and Torah? Why keep company with the Talmudic "unclean thing"?  Is it really for the "Jews" (nation or race) to  be given rights? What makes them Spiritually redeemed from the Pagan practicing Jews in 33 AD or 70 AD?  

4. The Talmud was written in Babylon during the time of the Jews' captivity which combined the Eastern mystery and Egyptian religions and produced a Pharisee class to ensure the Jews would adhere to the Mosaic law and thus (presumably) prevent a further judgment and expulsion by God in the future. The Babylonian (devilish) environment was needed to produce a document that would ensure an elite class of psychopaths to control the masses and continue criminal Jew influence regardless of any religious/political/economic outcome.

Agreed to a point.  The Talmud is purely Pagan so how can the "Messiah" compromise with keeping a people who practice both Pagan Babylonian teachings and Torah rituals? The continued practice of ritual slaughter in both Talmudic and Torah scrolls... will it be needed?

5. Organized religion always provides a haven for all sorts of unclean birds to inhabit the upper branches and poop on everybody below. Our Lord warned that the APPEARANCE of the Kingdom of the Heavens is like a grain of mustard seed which would grow into a great tree. The great tree of Christendumb demonstrates the abnormal growth (i.e. a man growing into an elephant) that we're seen over the last 2000 years. A mustard plant is very small and good for food. This is not what we see and experience in the 1500 or so denominations (i.e. divisions - to keep everyone squabbling) today. In the Book of the Acts they met in homes ('house to house') in a small, genuine way. We need to return to this simplicity... but won't.

Agreed.

6. God allows the crimes against humanity to continue because this is Man's day. The manifestation of the REALITY of the Kingdom of the Heavens (righteousness reigning on the earth) will not happen until the return of the Son of Man.

Is "GOD" active in shaping the future for MODERN ISRAEL today in Human world affairs? Is it "YES" or "NO"?  Agreed it is Man's day but is MODERN ISRAEL an exception?  

7. The apostles did not lead a revolt against Herod since God's concern just now is not so much the 'outward' Caesar of the tyranny of this material world but rather the 'inner' Caesar of Mankind's sin. This was the Jews' mistake in seeking a Messiah who would deliver them from the Romans. The battle is not against flesh and blood but rather principalities and powers, which is why I strongly recommend getting off the flypaper of civilization and disappearing into the mountains until this sorry JWO affair is over ('the whole world lieth in the wicked one'). God will slam the criminals into the concrete fer sure, but He's waiting for the fulness of the Gentiles and the cup of His wrath to be filled against those whose hearts are set on evil.

Is modern Christian Zionism an "Abomination"?

[Steve McQueen]

(D'oh!  I answered Mr. CRS's follow-up comments/questions but the post didn't take.  Oh well, I'll try again, but only a little at a time so I don't lose the whole wad again.)

1.  The Land of Goshen is the fertile delta at the north of Egypt where the Children of Israel  lived for roughly 400 years before Moses pulled them out.  The Good Land (Palestine) is approx the size of New Hampshire, 75 miles x 150 miles, 'from Dan to Beersheba'.

1.1 I'll answer the Menorah question and John's remnant, etc. if this takes... here goes.

[Steve McQueen]

Mr. CSR's comments cont'd:

1.  The legal description of the Good Land is found in Ezekiel 47:15-20.

1.1  The Menorah was the lampstand specified by Moses to illuminate the Holy Place.  It was included in Titus' Arch as a spoil of war.

1.2  Titus' dad was Vespesian, a Roman general who was favored among his people since he was not the son of an elitist and he had the Colesium built.  I'm not sure who his mom was but I'd never heard Titus was a Jew.  I'm not sure how a Jew could work his way up into the Roman military hierarchy and eventually become emperor.  Could happen, I suppose but I think it's fair to say it's a long shot at best and documentation would be helpful.

1.3  John's remnant would of course include a cross section of humanity to be a part of the Milennial Kingdom.  The key here is heart condition.  The Jews were told their hearts needed a circumcision (Joel 2:13, Jer 4:4) and that eventually God would give them a new heart (Ezek 36:26).  We must ensure that our heart is not hard (uncircumsized).  For instance, in a recent talk, Mr. Ognir mentioned that he was coming around to the thought that Jesus really was a genuine man.  

This is very good!  To continue the softening of his heart, Mr. Ognir should now proceed to read the 25 pages of the Gospel of John in the New Testament to find out from primary source information exactly what kind of man this Jesus person was.  This is how we come to know God and love him (the whole duty of man): by doing our best to keep a soft, pliable heart.  The Pharisees didn't do this and suffered the eternal consequences of remaining in willful ignorance.

2.  To be cont'd.

[Steve McQueen]

Mr. CSR's comments cont'd:

2.  The second temple was actually Ezra's Temple which Herod had convinced the Jewish leaders to let him tear it down and replace it with his own rendition.  Herod was the second greatest builder of antiquity and so was anxious to strut his stuff.  

2.1  I have no control over what the Jews of today or yesterday believe(d).  I can only be true to what my research has unearthed.  A lot of people think that the stock market is coming back because it's too painful for them to see their 401Ks become 101Ks.  If they bail now they'll lock in their losses.  If they stay in they can dream everything'll come back.  Again, we're talking about the hardness of the heart.  

2.2  The King of the Jews will sort out the DNA when the time comes.      

3.  The 'days' don't so much concern me since Biblical spans of time are measured by 'weeks of years'.  Messiah was cut off at the end of the 69th Week (Daniel 9:25, 26).  The Old Testament 'clock' was stopped at this juncture.  At the signing of the international peace treaty to come (Dan 9:27a) the clock will start again and we trip back into the Old Testament continuing with the 70th Week of Daniel, the Age of Grace/Church Age being completed.

I am personally guessing that WW III will start possibly this spring as a cover for the USA dollar devaluation.  I can foresee the seven year covenant being signed on or about June 21, 2009.  The prince from the house of Stuart/Windsor, son of Princess Di(e) is a my pick for the candidate to oversee the disposition of this document.  Dec 21, 2012 would be exactly the midpoint of the treaty, at which time the self-willed one (Will-i-am) puts an end to the sacrifices and oblations in what will then be the 4th temple on Mt Zion per Dan 9:27b and insist we all worship his image as the 'abomination of desolation' (Rev 13:15-17, II Thes 2:4).

This is the earliest possible scenerio that I see as meeting all the Biblical criteria as well as social, economic and political gyrations.  It even nails that Mayan calendar 2012 silliness they've been ramming down our throat.  But who knows.  

3.1  The Lord will return with a redeemed RACE of TORAH Jews who have rec'd a 'new heart' of belief.

4.  To be cont'd

[Steve McQueen]

Mr. CSR's comments cont'd:

4.  Yes, the ritual sacrifices will be resumed during the thousand year reign of Christ on the temple grounds as delineated in Ezekiel ch 40-44.

5.   N/A

6.  No, God is not active in shaping the future for modern Israel.  It is a criminal state, the 51st state of the United States, running wild.  Having said that, we must remember that   everyone and everything is on God's leash and while God IS allowing crimes to take place, he is not the perpetrator.  Satan had to ask permission before tormenting Job.  Jezebel in Second Kings killed a lot of innocent people as did Saul of Tarsus in the Book of Acts, but eventually all criminal activity will be brought to heel... either in this life as with Saul (later named Paul) or in the next as with Jezebel (rhymes with Hillary).

7.  Yes, modern Christian Zionism is an abomination.  But then John tells us "all unrighteousness is sin" (I John 3:4b).  Most of these people are clueless and unaware and have been heavily drugged by MSM and churchianity propaganda.  They won't escape punishment because of their blindness but their lashes will be far fewer than those who knew what was going on and didn't take some kind of action.    

Thank you for the opportunity to address these issues.

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/178312


This like has info on Titus Alexander. Read the detail regarding "Jewish" conversions in the Roman era.  Are converts from the Pagan nations in the group of the "elect"?

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

By the way, the "Menorah" today was never the lampstand described in Old Testament.  It was known as having 3, 5,7 and 9 branches in manner similar to a Plasma discharge.

Here read up on the "tree of life" and Asherah - that's the Menorah:

http://library.ciis.edu/resources/regenesis/asherah.pdf

[Steve McQueen]

My mistake on which 70 AD General you were speaking of: Tiberius (the Jew) versus Titus (the Roman).

The architectural details for the Lampstand are found in Exodus 37:17-24 wherein 7 branches are specified.  So far as knock-offs go, I would agree that all manner of forgeries/imitations abound.  

I too am a convert from a Pagan (Amerika) nation and am now in the congregation of the elect.  Peter was given the keys to the Kingdom which he exercised on the Day of Pentacost for the Jews (Key #1 - Acts Ch 2) and when he rec'd Cornelius as representative of the Gentiles (Key #2 - Acts Ch 10).  Hence, the door to eternal life is wide open!

On Aug 30, 1977 I was grafted into the Tree of Life (Romans 11:17) on my way to work when I finally believed I was bad enough to go hell and I did as the thief on the cross did in Luke 23:39-43 and asked the Savior of the world to save my sorry carcass so I'd not have to burn for eternity.  ("All those who come to me I shall in no wise cast out".)

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the Spirit is spirit", Jn 3:6.  The Gospel (good news) means that becoming one of the elect is open to any who are willing to call on the name of the Lord (Rom 10:13) to be saved.  The Bible speaks in terms of the elect as if it's some special group (which it is), but it's simply a function of God's choosing and our concurrence with God's view of sin.  If you agree with God's Gospel of Grace, you are 'elected'.

Unfortunately, due to their hardness of heart, the Jews of yesterday and today refuse to agree with His choosing nor do they confess their sin, therefore God some day must give them (the remnant) a new heart of belief so they may once again be his expression on the earth.  The majority of the Jews, however, will continue in their state of unbelief until it is too late to repent.  

Do you believe, Mr. CSR?

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

Nice catch. My bad, I meant to type "Tiberius" instead of "Titus" though they are actors in the same event - the siege of Masada.

I guess you read the rest of the link regarding Jewish "conversions" and the creation of the Talmud as an "Anti-Hellenic" move which the Jews saw as a great threat.

[Steve McQueen]

I read the comments on the link "iraqwar.world-mirror..." but didn't see anything about 'conversions'.  I was never much good at reading movie scripts either.

I'll go back and try again.

SM

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

"All of ancient life was carried on within the framework of cult acts whose execution did not entail complete belief. No gymnasium could be without the images of such patron gods of athletics as Heracles and without honorific statues of the kings. Every public act was invariably accompanied by sacrifice and invariably involved prayer. To accept Western culture fully, therefore, there appeared no other alternatives than either to renounce the ancestral religion, to which any participation in the cult of the gods was an abomination, or to transform the ancient law. Many Jews of antiquity chose the first course. Among them, for example, was Tiberius Julius Alexander, nephew of the Jewish philosopher, Philo, of Alexandria. Tiberius pursued a military and administrative career that raised him to the highest stations. Among other things, he was chief of staff to Titus at the conquest of Jerusalem in 70 C.E."

A good read if you have time:

"For Judaism, then, the question of its historical existence or disappearance depended upon its ability to accommodate itself to Western culture. But in the days of the Maccabees, as in the period of Moses Mendelssohn, the law interposed a wall between Jews and non-Jews. Nothing brings people closer together than a common table. But his dietary laws forbade the Jew to taste the food of his non-Jewish neighbor. There is no closer tie than the bond of matrimony. But the Jews told with approval the story of a father who abandoned his own daughter in order to free his brother from a passing attachment to a pagan dancing girl. To a man of the Hellenistic age this "separation from the nations" could be regarded as nothing else than the expression of a Jewish "hatred of mankind." Favorably disposed critics have endeavored to explain the withdrawal of the Jews from history as the consequence of the "bad experience of their expulsion from Egypt," and to exculpate it on such grounds; but no one outside Jewry itself has ever recognized positive merit in the separation....

"To "advanced" Jews, therefore, it seemed imperative to let these bars fall "In those days," we read in I Maccabees, "came there forth out of Israel lawless men, and persuaded many, saying, 'Let us go and make a covenant with the nations that are round about us .... "In those days" denotes the reign of the Syrian King Antiochus IV, surnamed Epiphanes (176-163 B.C.E.). The new King entrusted the position of High Priest at the Temple in Jerusalem- and hence the rule over Judea-to men of that same "advanced" party, first to a man who called himself by the Greek name of Jason (about 175-172 B.C.E.), then to Menelaus (172-162 B.C.E.). These Jewish "Hellenists" promptly received royal approval for establishing a Greek community in Jerusalem, and with it permission to erect a gymnasium. In 169, then, a regular Greek city, surrounded by walls and fortified by towers, was founded upon one of the hills of Jerusalem, opposite the Temple Mount. The name of this city is unknown; in our tradition it is referred to simply as Acra, that is to say, the Citadel. Henceforward the Sanctuary was dependent upon this Greek city. This was only natural. The Hellenistic culture, understandably enough, had first affected the upper classes, the Jerusalemites and the priesthood. When the signal went up for the exercises upon the athletic field to begin, it was the priests who hastened to the contests and surrendered their priestly linens for the nakedness of Greek sports. Greek marks of distinction were prized above old-fashioned, native honors. People strove to appear wholly Greek-externally, by removing the marks of circumcision through a painful operation; inwardly, by participating in the games in honor of the foreign gods, and even by contributing money for sacrifices to these gods.

"But the leaders of the party understood perfectly well that all this must remain merely a diversion of the upper classes as long as the Sanctuary remained inviolate and as long as the law enjoining "misanthropic" separation continued in force. Like the Emancipation of the nineteenth century, that of the second century B.C.E. must have necessarily led to religious "reform." But nineteenth-century Emancipation could in the end escape this necessity, for Occidental civilization as a whole had ... become secularized.

www. houseofdavid.ca/maccabee.htm

[Steve McQueen]

Wow, pretty amazing that someone would try and undo their circumcision!  These people are crazy.

Things were equally difficult for first century Christians for they too had to pay homage to the gods at the marketplace by offering a pinch of incense or two to the shrine or they wouldn't be allowed in to buy or sell their wares.

The difference between the Gentile and Jew seems to be one of subterfuge and intrigue throughly discussed/exposed some 88 some years ago by Henry Ford in his magazine 'The International Jew'.  They are indeed a weasly people, not all mind you, but a fair percentage.  Certainly enough of a plot going on to justify public scrutiny.

I've written to DBS that if the richest man alive (Henry Ford) couldn't stop modern Jewry from their diabolical mission of world conquest and subjugation of the stupid goyim cattle, what hope have we?  (He never answered that one.)  Violent revolution is the only obvious, historical solution but since I personally don't know how to organize such an affair, I've decided instead to declare victory and retreat to my desert hideaway(s) until this whole sorry mess blows over.

But this brings to mind something Mr. Ognir was wondering about in one of his recent talks, namely why is all this info about the Talmud, JWO, etc. coming out now?  In the Luciferian religion, there is what's known as "Pulsa Dinura"... the killing curse.  In order to heighten the enjoyment and satisfaction of the 'kill', these festering slugs preach their version of the gospel: a messaging process whereby evangelizing 'an offer that cannot be refused' to the proposed victim is mandated so that the prey becomes fully aware of what is in store for them and cannot use ignorance as an excuse when the axe falls.

Every blog we visit, every line we write is spreading their 'good news'.  You see, the enemy is so brilliant, they've not only had us pay for digging our own graves by having our tax dollars fund the military/industrial complex, but they've even manipulated us into doing the advertising.  

Pretty slick.  Now all we need is Hillary at the helm.