Martin admits Lisbon challenge

[Ognir]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre ... king22.htm

IRISH TIMES REPORTERS

Minister for Foreign Affairs Micheál Martin today admitted the Government faces a tough battle to get the Lisbon Treaty ratified in the upcoming October 2nd referendum after the latest Irish Times/TNS mrbi poll showed support for the treaty has declined over the summer.

However, the Yes side is still in the lead with four weeks to go to the referendum, according to the poll, which shows that 46 per cent would vote Yes, a drop of eight points since the last Irish Times poll in May, while 29 per cent say they would vote No, an increase of one point. The number of people in the Don't Know category has increased by seven points to 25 per cent.

When undecided voters are excluded, the Yes side has 61 per cent, with 39 per cent in the No camp. That compares to the referendum result in June 2008 of 53.4 per cent No and 46.6 per cent Yes.

"I was never under any illusion but that it would be difficult to secure this but I do think we can do it," Mr Martin, director of Fianna Fáil's Yes campaign, said this morning.

"There is a very significant challenge ahead, it's going to be a very tight campaign and it will demand all of the resources, conviction, politics and passion of all of those on the Yes side," he told RTÉ's Morning Ireland.

"I was never under any illusion but that it was going to be difficult to secure this, but I do think we can do it, and the significant difference . . . between this time last year and now now is that the "don't know" category has reduced significantly, and according to some research that we have seen . . . the information deficit has been improved - in other words more people are aware of the issues," the Minister said.

Warning against becoming "mesmerised by the last campaign," Mr Martin said: "The significant difference on this occasion is that we have succeeded in ensuring every country retains a commissioner, and basically the only guarantee now that the Irish people have now in terms of retaining a commissioner is to vote Yes.

"Whereas if we have a No outcome, we don't have any guarantee in the future that we will have a commissioner every year, and that's a fundamental change in terms of the campaign last year."

However, Mr Martin said the broader issue was Ireland's position within the EU, the perception of Ireland within the it and the degree to which the State wanted to facilitate the reform of the Union "on a modest basis".

Speaking on the same programme, Sinn Féin's Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin said there was no agreement that the arrangement on commissioners "would continue into perpetuity".

"In relation to the protocols in the declaration, all we're looking at here is clarifications, and in the statement by the presidency following the conclusion of the summit on the 18th and 19th of June, they made it patently clear in their own text that nothing whatsoever in the protocols would have any effect in relation to the actual treaty.

"These are only clarifications . . . I don't believe at this point in time, I have not got sufficient assurance that we are going to have a commissioner into perpetuity," he said.

Mr Martin said the Sinn Féin TD was putting forward the "basic conspiratorial approach, the basis approach of lacking any trust at all in the European Union".

"To be fair, Sinn Féin have opposed every single European treaty since we joined the European Union in 1973," the Minister said. "It's about commonsense against the conspiracy theorists."

In response, Mr Ó Caoláin said: "My main concern here . . . is in relation to our Government here at home who have patently failed to honour the position already answered by the Irish people in relation to the Lisbon Treaty.

"This is exactly the same treaty that we voted for in June 2008."

Fine Gael TD Billy Timmins, the party's campaign director, said the Irish Times poll was a timely reminder the work still faced by Yes proponents.

"Yesterday's poll provides confirmation of the tough task that lies ahead in convincing people that Ireland's interests are best served by remaining central to the European Union. One million jobs have been created here since we joined the EU in 1973 and at a time when jobless figures are at almost 430,000 we need to grab the economic handrail Europe provides."

"Twenty-five per cent of Irish people have yet to be persuaded that ratification of the Lisbon Treaty will be positive for Ireland, and that represents an opportunity to those of us advocating a Yes vote to highlight how beneficial the European Union has been for the Irish economy."

The decline in the numbers saying they will vote Yes comes after three Irish Times polls in the first half of 2009 that had shown consistently solid support for Lisbon. Most of those who have left the Yes camp have moved into the Don't Know category rather than shifting into the No camp.

In the Irish Times poll at a similar stage in the first Lisbon Treaty referendum campaign, 35 per cent said they would vote Yes, 18 per cent said No and 47 per cent said Don't Know.

The latest poll was taken on Monday and Tuesday of this week among a representative sample of 1,000 voters in face-to-face interviews at 100 sampling points in all 43 constituencies. Voters were asked whether they were likely to vote Yes or No to the treaty on October 2nd.

Fianna Fáil voters are the most enthusiastic supporters of the treaty by a margin of 62 per cent to 23 per cent. Among Fine Gael voters there is also solid backing for the Yes campaign by a margin of 58 per cent to 23 per cent. Labour Party supporters are less enthusiastic with 43 per cent in favour and 31 per cent against.

Green Party supporters are significantly out of tune with their party on the issue with 36 per cent intending to vote No and 31 per cent Yes, despite the party's decision at a special convention to support Lisbon.

In line with their party's stance on the issue, Sinn Féin voters are strongly against the treaty, with 66 per cent intending to vote No and just 13 per cent Yes.

[celticwarrior]

the 'Yes' side are determined, even fanatical, to get this Treaty passed, and are going all out spending Irish and EU taxpayers' money on a massive PR push with commissioned, biased 'opinion polls', pro-'Yes' politicians, economists and commentators getting widespread coverage in the mainly Lisbon-promoting media, scores of 'vote Yes' posters along nearly every lampost on the main roads into cities and towns and over 80 EU officials, Commissioners and MEP's (including the Secretary-General of the European Commission, Irishwoman Catherine Day) touring schools, colleges and holding public meetings; most establishment organisations, including the biggest trade union, SIPTU, have recommended a 'Yes' vote;
truth is,of course, the first casualty in this war such as Minister Martin declaring that the Treaty only contains ''modest reforms'' to ''streamline'' the workings of the EU and make it ''more efficient'' and a 'Yes'' poster's slogan claiming that 'a 'Yes' vote will give Ireland a stonger voice in Europe';
Justice Frank Clarke, Chairman of the Referendum Commission set up to help the public understand the Lisbon Treaty, has promised to answer anyone's queries about it every week on RTE radio; however, his impartiality is under question with declarations like ''the Treaty will not adversely affect workers' rights or the minimum wage'' and the Commission's information leaflet (recently posted out to almost 2 million households) being described by former Danish MEP and anti-Treaty activist Jens Peter Bonde as based on a ''pure cheat'' with ''the most important changes contained in the Lisbon Treaty are not mentioned at all'';
Here's the link to RTE's 'Primetime' programme about the 2 critical, current Irish issues: NAMA and the Treaty vote
http://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/

[celticwarrior]

Bruce Arnold of the 'Irish Independent' is one of the few writers and mainstream press journalists to speak out against the Lisbon Treaty: http://www.brucearnold.ie/pages/pages/l ... rategy.php

Arnold and veteran broadcaster Gay Byrne are two of the most influential Irish anti-Treaty voices: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/archive/ ... 96068.html

[sullivan]

Bruce Arnold of the 'Irish Independent' is one of the few writers and mainstream press journalists to speak out against the Lisbon Treaty: http://www.brucearnold.ie/pages/pages/l ... rategy.php

Arnold and veteran broadcaster Gay Byrne are two of the most influential Irish anti-Treaty voices: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/archive/ ... 96068.html

Gene Kerrigan (Sunday Independent) also seems to be tiring of the pro-Lisbon FUD.

[celticwarrior]

True; Arnold wrote another good anti-lisbon article in yesterday's 'Independent' explaining how Lisbon shifts power from small states to the Big Four, the misleading info in the Commission's booklet about our ability to 'appoint' a Commissioner and so on; I tried to find it on the web to post here but it seems not yet available; Arnold's views on Lisbon have been consistent, concise and cogent, his guide (he claims) being Christ's comforter, 'The Spirit of Truth'

Nigel Farage will follow Marta Andreasen to Dublin next Tuesday 8 Sept to attend a debate on the Treaty:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire ... 45052.html

predictably, IBEC, representing Irish business interests wants a 'Yes' vote whilst the TEEU, representing electricians and engineers opposes the Treaty, saying it 'would ensure that the interests of the market would always have precedence over the rights of workers'

the Irish Times now has a special Lisbon 2009 website carrying in-depth news and analysis from the campaign

[celticwarrior]

As the political route for the people to have their say has been so corrupted and debased by the establishment's rejection of the first referendum's 'No' vote and the fog of mistruths and propaganda surrounding the current campaign is so thick, maybe we Irish should go back to the ancient, Celtic way of resolving disputes between groups: a hurling match! :lol: ''because of the day that's in it'', as we say, (its All Ireland Hurling Final day today between counties Tipperary ,''Up Tipp!'', and Kilkenny, ''Go the Cats!'' - note how diplomatically even-handed I am as I live just on the border of the two counties )  
There is a saying in Kilkenny that ''the men of Ireland were hurling when the Gods of Greece were young'' and this may be true as the scribes recorded tribal battles of the ash (the hurling stick) going back to 1272 BC; in the 8th century, under the Brehon Laws, a hurling match was used to settle disputes between neighbouring villages and this method of conflict resolution endured up to the Anglo-Norman invasion when native Irish customs and language were suppressed;
So, why don't the two opposing sides in this Treaty debate each field a team of dedicated players and let the result of win or lose be equated to a 'Yes' or 'No' decision to Lisbon!      

 

[celticwarrior]

anti-treaty group Coir and its leader Richard Green have just been profiled now on RTE radio's 'This Week' programme:
 http://www.rte.ie/news/thisweek/
(this link refers to last sunday's show, but it is where you can hear today's programme with Richard Green when it gets updated)

[celticwarrior]

Minister Martin and Nigel Farage are fighting it out now on Pat Kenny's RTE radio show now if you want to email the show: mailto:todaypk@rte.ie">todaypk@rte.ie

[celticwarrior]

Martin tried to monopolise the debate, as usual:  http://www.rte.ie/radio1/todaywithpatkenny/
RTE TV news reported that another EU head honcho, Jerzy Busek, President of the European Parliament was in Dublin to tell workers their concerns had been addressed by way of guarantees from EU leaders and to insinuate that a 'No' vote would leave Ireland in a "slightly weaker position" vis a vis other member states: the old carrot and stick approach

meanwhile, a cross-party group of 135 local councillors has declared 'No' to Lisbon: independent councillor Chris O'Leary said " much has been said about these guarantees but ask the farming or fishing communities about the worth of the guarantees they got in earlier treaties" (many livelihoods ruined by adverse EU over-regulation in areas like prices and quotas to producers, restrictive habitat directives, etc);  the Irish Fishermen's Organisation says 'No' to Lisbon but another fishermens' group  and a few other unions are pro-Treaty indicating the general confusion in working people's minds as to what Lisbon will mean for them: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire ... 11474.html
 
The People Before Profit's 'No To Lisbon' campaign has just been launched, led by councillor Richard Boyd Barrett who said: "the Treaty advances the interests of the corporate elite and the military-industrial complex in Europe rather than the interests of ordinary working people"
Joe Higgins, MEP Socialist Party, said "to ratify the Treaty would copperfasten the right of Business to exploit migrant workers and enforce wages and conditions way inferior to accepted norms in particular EU states"

[celticwarrior]

controversial Irish writer, pundit and radio host Eamonn Dunphy debates Lisbon with Jimmy Kelly of the Unite union now on 'Today with Pat Kenny'; text 51551, email: mailto:todaypk@rte.ie">todaypk@rte.ie

[sullivan]

controversial Irish writer, pundit and radio host Eamonn Dunphy debates Lisbon with Jimmy Kelly of the Unite union now on 'Today with Pat Kenny'; text 51551, email: mailto:todaypk@rte.ie">todaypk@rte.ie

Didn't Dunphy do a u-turn on Lisbon, saying he will vote 'Yes' this time for some lame reason?

[celticwarrior]

yes he did a u-turn; he started by giving all the reasons why he voted 'No' the first time, then said that he didn't want Ireland to be relegated "to the margins" and fall back into the slow lane whilst the core states moved ahead; Jimmy Kelly told him that the same reasons he voted 'No' before still pertain, Ireland's status would not be diminished by a 'No' vote and that a 'Yes' vote would lessen our influence in Europe;

Irish Prime Minister ( An Taoseach) Brian Cowen is now appearing on RTE TV's 'Primetime' to defend his position on NAMA and the Lisbon Treaty; this treaty will give the dark Kabalistic forces behind the EU a big boost in their plans to consolidate their bureaucratic control and erode national sovereignty with the endgame to merge the EU, the coming North American Union, the African Union and the remaining countries into a megastate, one-world, socialist government: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/New_W ... iracy.html

[sullivan]

socialist government

You call it socialism, I call it fascism. Socialism is, at least in theory, an egalitarian system. Do you seriously think the parasites want equality with you or I? They want capitalism for them and socialism for the rest - a pretty succinct description of fascism.

[celticwarrior]

as Gary Allen said in the first two paragraphs of his 'Non dare call it Conspiracy', Socialism (leading to Communism) is a means for a power elite to exercise totalitarian control over the masses; fascism is the other side of the same coin,  both using advanced brainwashing techniques to persuade the sheeple its for their own good; the same evil, Kabalistic-Talmudic crime gang generated both 'isms' to try and get what they want - total control of everthing and everyone