The Jewish Experience - by Gilad Atzmon

[Anonymous]

http://palestinethinktank.com/2008/06/10/the-jewish-experience-by-gilad-atzmon/

A good read from Gilad Atzmon.  I recommend you all read it.  Gilad is a great author on discussing "Jewish" identity.  I agree with most of this article, except for the part where Zionism is supposedly a closed chapter for Israelis...

Some quotes from the article that really indicate some important conclusions:

Instead of sending special infantry units into Gaza at dawn, it is apparently far easier to drop bombs on populated neighbourhoods or alternatively to starve its habitants to submission. Needless to say, the Palestinians, the Syrians, the Hezbollah, the Iranians and the entire Muslim world see it all. Day by day they review the Israeli cowardice tactics, they know that Israel's days are numbered.

In fact, not many Jewish parents would stop their son or daughter from joining the IDF, why should they? The IDF is a very safe army to be in, it avoids ground battle, it kills from afar, it values its soldier as much as it loves inflicting the ultimate pain on others. Every Jewish father must accept that it may be useful for his youngster to learn how to drive a tank, fly a helicopter or shoot an MK 47. Unlike the shockingly under-equipped Palestinian warriors who die in vast quantities on a daily basis, the Israeli soldiers hardly risk their lives. Hence, the heroic Aliyah and even joining the IDF, seems to be a safe adventure, at least for the time being.

This counter flow of migration/aspiration is far from being a matter of contingency, in fact it is the direct product of the holy Judaic scriptures. As I explored in my 'Esther to AIPAC' paper[1], more and more Bible scholars are now disputing the historicity of the Bible. Seemingly, the Bible is for most part "written after the Babylonian Exile and whose writings rework (and in large part invent) previous Israelite history so that it reflects and reiterates the experiences of those returning from the Babylonian exile."

Consequently, the Bible, being an exilic text, leads to a fragmented reality in which the Diaspora Jew yearns for 'homecoming' yet once at home, the ideology loses its appeal. The case of Zionism is shockingly similar, it has managed to aspire some Jews about Zion, yet, once in Zion, the ideology fails to provide for the domestic adventure.

I have mentioned this concept in the old forum.  I don't always talk about the religious aspect of things since there are always those who will be offended by the statements I make, but when the occasion permits itself, I do.  
The Bible is a book of stories, based on events (some true, some not) from the past mixed in with fanciful etiology about a people and their God to give meaning to the events that occurred because it was all part of "God's plan".  You cannot take the Bible to be 100% because it simply is not.  How can you possibly take it seriously when there are concocted stories of talking burning bushes and other "visions" (drug induced hallucinations at best if they were not merely invented out of thin air).  To attempt to determine what parts are accurate and what parts are not, you need to separate the "miracles", the "visions", and the false accounts of "history" (past), but to do so is to destroy the meaning of the Bible and the whole story it weaves about the struggle between the divine will of "God" and the flawed will of man.  But it can be attempted using records outside of the Bible and archaeological evidence.  The Biblical archeology world used to be about using the Bible to make archeology fit with it, but in the past few decades more archaeologists have shed that delusional form of investigation for a more objective evidence based way of looking at the supposed historical events from the Bible.

This is a summary of what the Bible is basically about from a summary of the book "The Mythic Past" I wrote up for my stage6 video account I had:
"The only origin for Israel is the Bible, which is a literary fiction with recurring motifs and metaphors involving exile stories when the chosen people disobey "God" and chose to follow their own wills as opposed to the will of "God", followed by a suffering, emptiness (Jerusalem/soul), or wandering the desert until repentance is granted by their all merciful "God" and they are allowed to return once again. Destruction of old, creation/beginning of new recurs. The old Israel/Jerusalem or chosen people gone and a new Israel/Jerusalem or new people becoming the new children of "God". The exiles were deportations and population relocations that occurred during the Assyrian, Babylonian and Persian imperial reigns of Palestine and many other countries. The rulers used propaganda to convince their new subjects that they were either returning from exile to their true homelands or the deportation was to return them to their true lands, and it happened to many cities and peoples. Israel was a state in the past, but not a country of its own with the territory the Zionists claim.

Religions are theological and philosophical principles. They are ideals, laws and ways of living ones life, mainly through pious means. Songs and story of the past were used to express these philosophies. Law, justice and destiny where to be determined by God's will, not by any humans own will, and when you strayed from the path of God's will (righteousness), you were punished, killed, sent into exile, until you redeemed yourself or God would permit a new beginning. All the stories demonstrate that humanity needs to listen to divine will, not flawed human will.  And when you don't, bad things happen"

Believe what you want, any "God" may or may not exist.  I am not against that belief.  But it is quite clear to me that these supposed "prophets" did not speak to this so-called "God".  First of all, this YHWH character is an idiot war monger in some cases.  That is not benevolence.  I believe in a source-energy-singularity origin for everything, but it sure as hell is not this YHWH buffoon.  And the whole concept of fearing this "God" is absurd.  There is no reason the source of everything would need to talk to people, and only a specific person from this time or that time... instead of clearly validating its existence by speaking to everyone.  And then not talking to anyone for centuries and forcing everyone to accept its existence based on loosely "historical" etiological stories, songs and prayers.  Let alone any need to have humans worship and fear this supposed "him".  How vain to you have to be?  It just defies common sense.

As much as Eretz Yisrael and the Diaspora establish a counter flow of aspiration and migration, Israel is there to establish a coherent and consistent symbolic interpretation of Jewish tribal chauvinism and supremacy. Israel makes 'love yourself as much as you hate everyone else' into a devastating reality, in which the self-lover happens to be capable of inflicting the ultimate pain on his surrounding neighbours.

While the religious Judaic understanding of Jewish chosenness is realised as a moral burden in which Jews are ordered by God to stand as a model of ethical behaviour, the secular Jewish interpretation is reduced into a banal chauvinist form of racially orientated supremacy. It clearly encourages those who are lucky enough to have a Jewish mother to love themselves blindly. It is crucial to mention at this stage that in most cases Jewish supremacy would lead to a certain level of dismissal of the elementary rights of the other. In many cases it leads toward animosity and even hatred whether latent or manifest.

However, we may note that Jesus, Spinoza and Marx, didn't manage to transform the Jews (as a collective), though they had a bit of success with some of them. Seemingly, the move from hard-core dogmatic monotheistic tribalism towards tolerant pluralist universalism is on the verge of the impossible. Indeed, more than a few Jews have managed to leave God behind, as we know some had become Marxists but somehow even many of those remained loyal to their monotheistic tribally exclusive 'Jews only' philosophy (Bund, JAZ). Others moved as far as becoming a 'nation like other nations' (Zionism) except that they made sure they cleansed and killed those who didn't fit ethnically to their vision of themselves (1948 Nakba). Some became so liberal and cosmopolitan that they managed to reduce contemporary global conflict into a simplistic take on 'soft drink'. "People who drink Coca Cola do not fight each other", they informed us. This may be the truth, however, as it seems, the Coke drinkers have recently killed 1.5 million Iraqis all in the name of 'democracy'.

However, though Jews are divided between themselves on many things, they are united in fighting those who they collectively identify as their enemies. It took me a while to realise that those who operate under the exclusive Jewish banner within the Palestinian solidarity and the Anti-War movements are primarily concerned with fighting any references to Jewish lobbying or Jewish power.

A very important point, that these supposed anti-Evil "Jews" still rally for their collective and attempt to deny any notion of "Jewish" power and influence in the world, even though they are supposed "good guys".  Deaf, blind and dumb seems to be the behavior some choose to exhibit despite the evidence.

Zionism per se, has little to do with Israel, it is an internal Diaspora Jewish discourse. Consequently, the debate between Zionists and Jewish anti-Zionists has no significance on Israel or the struggle against Israeli actions. It is there to keep the debate within the family while planting more confusion amongst the goyim.

One thing I need these supposed good guys - even GIlad - to stop doing, is referring to non-"Jews" as "goyim".  It is offending because I as well as many of you know what that word means - despite any innocent use in using it - to simply refer to non-"Jews".  I know GIlad is not saying it in that way, but I will not let the "Jews" use their own degrading word to identify me.

Seemingly (and unfortunately), when it comes to 'action', the Zionists and the so-called Jewish 'anti'-Zionists are acting as one people. Why are they acting as one people? Because they are one people. Are they really one people? It doesn't matter as long as they themselves believe to be or act as if they are. And what is it that makes them into one people? They probably hate everyone else as much as they love themselves.

ZING!  Well said Gilad!  I only find those groups useful in so-far as dispelling any false perception that being anti-Zionist is being anti-Jewish or anti-Semitic [sic].  Apart from that, they are Orthodox, and they use the Talmud, whether they openly admit it or not, they use it, it is part of the Orthodoxy.  As Gilad mentioned in the previous quote, it is to confuse everyone about the "Jewish" question and experience that some have.

As much as some Jews may like to follow their religious calling and spit on churches[2] or just destroy the lives of prominent academics and artists, hatred and violence is not tolerated within the contemporary Western discourse. This is exactly where Israel comes into play. As much as the Israelis love themselves, they are capable of hating anyone else. They are capable of starving millions of Palestinians, they are capable of killing when they feel like it. Israel made 'love yourself/ hate everyone else' into a viable practice. It resolved the most inherent ambivalent tension having to do with self-loving while being amongst others. Israel doesn't just hate Prof. Finkelstein, it is capable of detaining and deporting him as well. Israel doesn't just hate the Palestinians, it is equally capable of starving them, locking them behind walls and barbed wire, bombing them and even nuking the hardliners when the time is ripe.

If we want to tackle the crimes committed by Israel and the evil promoted by global Zionist lobbies, we better initiate a profound study of the Jewish question and the Jewish experience. It is not just Israel or Zionism but rather the unique devastating amalgam of complexity formed by both. Unless we question the Jewish experience, we are doomed to continue wasting our time employing irrelevant archaic 19th century terminology that has nothing to do with the conflict.

Very important point, but sadly not many people outside of our community of understanding this problem can conceive of it other than being hateful or anti-"Jewish".  Until false preconceptions and prejudicial short-sighted conclusions about discussing topics is removed, we are not going to get anywhere with these brainwashed socially conditioned non-critical thinking sheeple.

Since Jews do not form a race but largely succumb to some different forms of collective, racially orientated politics, we shouldn't be afraid of touching the matter. Once we take it as a given that Jews do not form a race, the study of Jewish identity and politics is neither racism nor essentialism. It is actually the very opposite, it is in fact a critical reading of racist ideology and its inherent supremacy.

Rather than focusing separately on Zionism or Israel, we must learn the unique amalgam of complexity that is formed by both. This dialectic compound shapes the contemporary notion of Jewish Experience. Zionism in itself is no more than a decoy. It is there to grab our attention and divert our focus. Seemingly our attack on Zionism has no significance on Israel, its policies and its people. At the most, it disturbs some Zionist Jews

[Anonymous]

http://palestinethinktank.com/2008/06/1 ... igm-shift/

This is somewhat a response from the co-founder of Palestine Think Tank.  She apparently has not heard of Judaism as being the prime factor in all this mess of the "Jewish" question.  So sadly... many are like her, living under the proverbial rock ignoring the decades, nay, the centuries of people writing about the hatred and supremacy that stems from the "Jews".  I find it hilarious that it has taken her up until reading Gilad's piece to think of this.  Some people just ignore the info because it's "hate" and purely anti-"Jewish" in their minds to dare speak against this religion, thinking the only "ok" position you can have is to be anti-Zionist.  But, at least she is finally waking the frakk up!  Or... I hope she is!!!