When the SHTF - 3rd world experiences

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

When the SHTF - 3rd world experiences
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:53 pm

ZS Member


Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:20 am
Posts: 444
Location: SW Idaho    
Sorry but this is kinda long...

Raptor suggested that I share a few thoughts based on my personal observations in real-world SHTF situations (drought, disease, famine, and war). A brief background on me so you know where I'm coming from: I was a Navy Corpsman (medic) for 20 years. I spent most of those years assigned to USMC and Navy SpecWar (not a SEAL I just got to play with and take care of them). I also got to visit some interesting places. Most notable and relevant to discussion here are:

Thailand, 1988 – Medical Civilian Assistance Program during COBRA GOLD (exercise)
Kuwait, 1991 – DESERT STORM
Somalia, 1992 - RESTORE HOPE
Haiti, 1994 - RESTORE DEMOCRACY
Sierra Leone 2002 – Military Advisory Team
Iraq 2004 – IRAQI FREEDOM

First off, I do want to point out that there is a big difference between where most of us live and these nations. Everything should probably be looked at while taking differences in environments, culture and civil infrastructure into consideration. Anyway, coming from a military and medical point of view here are my observations:

Maybe it's because of my medical background but the first thing that these places had in common that stands out in my mind is DISEASE. While I was in Thailand there was an outbreak of Foot & Mouth Disease there. Although I didn't see any people with the disease (it's not that common in humans) I did see its secondary effects. A lot of small communities depended on their livestock not only as a primary food source but to help harvest and transport crops. A hard hitting zoonotic disease, especially one that affects several different species, that strikes an agricultural based society can have a severe economic impact.

Infectious disease among people is closely linked to SANITATION. When garbage starts piling up someplace other than the local landfill things start to get funky. Individual sanitation is an issue as well (it's hard to convince somebody to wash their hands with soap & water when drinking water is in short supply). I've encountered a lot of gastrointestinal diseases, a wide variety ranging from traveler's diarrhea to dysentery. Contaminated water and food that's either improperly processed, stored or handled can cause a lot of problems and an outbreak (one bad meal for half of your group) can stress your resources and put a crimp in your operational plan. I've watched people die from a lot of preventable diseases - Tuberculosis, Hepatitis, AIDS, Lassa Fever, and Malaria.

One of the other common problems is LOSS OF CIVIL INFRASTRUCTURE. When there's no electricity, no fuel, no running water you run into a lot of problems. You start encountering more sanitation and disease issues, normal resupply methods dry up, medical resources are strained, and food and water become valuable commodities. YOU may have a plan to deal with your garbage and sewage but when 10 or 20 families in your neighborhood start throwing their nasty trash into the vacant lot across the street you're getting set up for trouble. The population of flies and rodents will explode and the dwindling medical resources can't keep up with the spread of disease. As the existing medical personnel attempt to provide some sort of service there is also an increase in the use of homeopathic remedies.

AGRICULTURE is frequently hard hit in extended emergencies. The loss of a steady petroleum supply not only effects farmers' ability to maintain and harvest their crops with machinery but also their supply of seeds, fertilizer and insecticides. Crops are harvested by hand or draft animal, and production is dramatically decreased. Food becomes a commodity. Also, the use of night-soil (fertilizer made from human waste that has not been composted) as a fertilizer will result in increased incidence of disease.

CIVIL DISORDER comes not too long after the infrastructure breaks down. Early in the situation it will be a simple increase in the crime you already see in your area. Common criminals will be a little more desperate and a little more emboldened. But that won't last long, nature abhors a vacuum and when the local authority ceases to be effective one will take its place. You can expect groups that already exist to step up and fill the void. If there are criminal groups in the area they will attempt to expand their influence, they will also take care of their own. If you live in an area that doesn't have "professional gangs" other groups will step up to the plate and try to do what they can to ensure the survival of their communities. They will pull from the resources (knowledge, tools, techniques and tactics) that are available to them. These groups may be very civic minded (they'll most likely be formed by basically good people – city councils, neighborhood associations, church groups, etc) and willing to cooperate with other neighboring groups. On the other hand they may adapt a predatory approach that results in conflict with other groups over a struggle for resources. The predators will view anybody not under the protection of a stronger group as a resource to be exploited. Even the civil minded groups are not above creating laws and rules that focus on "ensuring the common good" – the local "security force" always seems to have enough gasoline for their vehicles. Farms and small villages on the outskirts of the conflict area/disaster zone are a resource, and not always a willing one.

If there is ARMED CONFLICT going on, innocent people get hurt, sometimes by accident and sometimes by design. There are a lot of good people out there but there are some truly horrible ones too. Guns, machetes, bombs, fire, clubs...whatever tool some people have availble to them they will try use it to inflict pain on others.

REFUGEES are usually fairly dependent on the generosity of others, especially relief agencies. If the refugees can be spread out they're usually absorbed by whatever communities they land in but in large concentrations quickly over-burden an area. If the local "authorities" feel like they are strong enough they will frequently attempt to regulate distribution aid. In Somalia, the Unified Nations had to send armed troops to ensure the distribution of relief supplies. Even then, they were only able to ensure that the supplies were given to the people for which they were intended, nothing was done to ensure that they were able to keep them. There's also no guarantee that the people who are there to help won't take advantage of the situation themselves. I've seen troops who were supposed to be protecting people set up road blocks at their check points in order to shake civilians down. Basically my experience has shown that although most people will band together and do only what they feel they have to do in order to survive, there will be a certain percentage will try to take advantage of a situation for personal gain.

What I've taken away from my experiences:
1. Find a way to properly deal with your trash, sewage and carcasses
2. Enforce basic principles of hygiene & food handling safety
3. Have a secure source of clean water (or a way to purify a questionable source)
4. Keep immunizations up to date, not just for you but your animals (pets & livestock)
5. Insect control measures. I'm not overly concerned about Malaria where I live but I don't want anybody I care about getting West Nile Virus, Lyme Disease or Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever.
6. Grow as much of your own produce as you can.
7. Be prepared to barter goods or services for food
8. Lean how to deal with common medical problems without having to rely on a doctor or a drug store. At the very least obtain a copy of the book "Where There is No Doctor" (it can be downloaded for free - find it and print it out)
9. Maintain a good supply of commonly used medications and a large supply of any prescription drugs that you or anybody in your family needs. For people who depend on eyeglasses having several extra pairs is a must.
10. Have the resources and skills required to protect yourself and your family but don't think that you will be able to do it by yourself.
11. Be as active in your community as you can NOW – you either take a say in how things are managed or you'll be forced to decide on a choice provided by somebody else later down the road.
12. Safeguard your resources and/or be willing to share them.
13. Realize that there may come a time that you have to kill a fellow human being and there may be a time you have to choose between running away or standing your ground and dying. Be ready to.

http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... 32&t=57857

[joeblow]

When the SHTF - 3rd world experiences

4. Keep immunizations up to date, not just for you but your animals (pets & livestock)

Bravo! I agree with everything except for that.

[Doc Holliday]

Diseases and infections should always be considered important. In places like New Mexico a simple sand flea can carry the Hantavirus, Bubonic Plague, or a tick may carry Lyme or other diseases. If dust is breathed that has been around rodent droppings, diseases can be caught.

A simple infection can turn deadly in less than two days if not treated properly.
 An example:
      A World know survivalist and Dessert Survival Instructor for most of the US Military branches, named David Alloway died as the  result of an accident with a horse. His foot was crushed during an wilderness camp outing in West Texas and  despite the pain he persevered, Within a couple of days an infection had set in  and by the time he was finally evacuated, he was in critical condition. He died  at the hospital of a severe infection.  http://www.survival.com/hoodswoods/?page_id=195 (In Memory of)
Author of book: Desert Survival Skills  

A non poisonous snake bite can kill by infection.

I'm not one to be germaphobic, but I sure try to be as careful as I can.

[abduLMaria]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGNHUxHv ... r_embedded

one rattlesnake bite

3 days in Intensive Care, in an American Hospital.

Bill:  $140,000.

Joo Health Care in America = You give us All your Money - then You Die.

i have had 2 times in the last 5 years when i needed to go to an ER and did not, because i didn't want to get stuck with an ER bill.

the first time, i cut myself REAL bad on a stainless steel reflector for a solar panel that was sitting in the hallway.  (cut about 5/8" into my foot).

took me about 15 minutes to get it duct-taped shut with a clean dressing.  got in to see a doctor 2 days later.  the "doctor" charged me $120 to tell me i did a good job duct-taping my foot, and that it was not infected.  the doctor refused to put on a new bandage to replace my duct-tape job.

this time, i knew the danger was infection, so i took some Penicillin i bought in Mexico.  total cost - $15.


another time, i inhaled water into my lungs and ended up getting a lung infection.  i did a little digging and found that the likely official treatment would be a chest X-ray.

i had some Cephalexin - an antibiotic often used for bacterial lung infections.  i took that.  the infection took about a week out of my life; i was coughing up about 2 pounds of mucus a day (charming, i know   8-)  )


long story short ...
*  frontier medicine works
*  be willing to suffer, have some good antibiotics on hand
*  avoid the Joo American medical system

the next thing i would like to be able to do is suture wounds.  for this i will need ampules of a local painkiller, e.g. 50 mg Fentanyl (i was injected with this once in a case of food poisoning.)

the other thing that is important - especially if you make it a point of avoiding American doctors - is to stay strong, to keep your immune system as strong as possible.  Exercise + diet + stress management.

the third world gets a bad rap in terms of medical care.  e.g. in Tijuana - you just need to find where the "rich people" go.  for a routine concern, just pay $40 for a routine visit to a doctor near the downtown area.

much less stressful, and much more healthful, than most of the "doctors" i have met at Kaiser etc. in the US the last 20 years.


in general, i think Americans rely WAAY too much on American health care.  for most of America's history, there were no doctors - and yet the west was "won" (stolen from the Indians).  somehow people survived without going to a doctor 4 times a year.

separate subject - just out of curiosity - what is this Joo emoticon saying ?  ==>  

[Wimpy]

There are plenty veterinary supply websites to obtain antibiotics for fish and birds (CalVet).  Just reference "RXLIST" to verify dosage, precautions and  watch for listed side effects.  Other non-narcotic medications can be obtained from several Indian run websites(4RX.com).  Delivery is slow and postage is high though.  Probably a good idea to stock up on vitamins too.

[jai_mann]

Here's some things: Cheap 99.99% pure silver can be used to make strong colloidal silver. This is anti bacterial, anti fungal, and anti viral just do a pubmed search. Not 3 days ago my dog presented symptoms of an ear infection again. Rather being raped for $250 12 midnight at an ER vet, I dumped h2o2 in both ears, and I gave him some left over anti-biotics from before, and I added colloidal silver to his bowl. Within 20 minutes his symptoms started waning ( I credit the h2o2). Over the next several days I used a home made batch of anti-nasties ointment. I made this from 100% pure vaseline melted in a jar and mixed with a strong batch of colloidal silver (small amount of liquid). I stirred and let the h2o evaporate off leaving behind nano silver particles all through the vaseline. Then I let this vaseline cool. I recommend every one make a batch to keep on hand for cuts. It's DIRT cheap and even more effectic IMHO than the over the counter stuff.

For pain killers start growing your own poppies and dry out the pods and preserve them in an air tight container (there's plenty on ebay). Just make a batch of tea with 1 pod per kettle of water. I'll have to purchase some other anti-biotics for any future issues. I recently realized that I could order them through vet stores, thanks for reinforcing that.

If I could find inhalers for asthma online I think I'd be set. I had to go in to the clinic two weeks ago for a severe attack where they had to put me on a nebulizer. They won't keep a running prescription open so I can refill as needed. They're fucking vampires. They force visits so I have to shell out more cash for some thing I've dealt with all my life.

I'd be sure to start id'ing plants that provide the vitamins you need locally. It'll be cheaper, probably safer ( jews can start adding shit into any and all pills, you don't follow them from the source so who knows what could be added. some arsenic with your vitamin c =P ?), and it provides a LONG TERM solution to a simple problem. Our separation from the land has turned us into fish out of water if our conditioned routes are cut off.

I'd recommend Rosea Rhodiola as a super immune system booster and anti-viral and anti-bacterial. Grow it if you can. I'm still trying to get seeds for it at the moment.

Grow what ever you can in the way of needs and supplements. It's fun .

[Wimpy]

jai-mann,

Inhalers are available aplenty on the internet.

If I were to have some pure silver how would it be colloidalized?  Any links or hints?