TFC Monday 6 September 2010. DBS / Bill re: <http://1215.org>

[Helphand]

TFC Monday 6 September 2010. DBS / Bill re: <http://1215.org>

http://iamthewitness.com/audio/1215.org/TFC.SMITH.1215.ORG.06-09-2010.mp3

Daryl addressing freeman / sovereign, common-law-being-surperseded issues.
Too many people being incarcerated under statute laws, process seems to be as much a revenue raising industry based on victimless crimes as to do with  traditional (common law) criminal justice retribution /  incapacitation.

First interview with Bill from California who is not a spokesman for 1215.org but says he studied the website in depth and is happy to answer some questions... says he has been "fooling around" in the courts for 25 years...

He says a new visitor to 1215.org should click on Start Here and follow the instructions on the page they are taken to. This gives the core of what it's all about. Principles of the individual-as-sovereign apply in all Republics.

@26.12 DBS mentions something on the internet (url?) concerning a Canadian called Keith who according to Bill got an "educated" judge who called a recess and bowed to him - "most are ignorant" says Bill. {how can there be a conspiracy among them about the common law being subverted by admiralty law, mercantile law, whatever if they don't know about it? (UK judges always bow at the end - go watch them, it passes an afternoon.)}

@51:16 [Someone remanded in prison] "issued a bench warrant for the arrest of the judge". WHOSE  was it? The prisoner's self-created "bench warrant" presumably, not a bench warrant issued by a system judge? This was NOT clear but as phrased it makes it sound like the system issued the document and not the prisoner on a word processor! Bill goes on and says the judge offered the prisoner to reduce 4 felonies to a single misdemeanour charge; next day the person was out of jail.  So what did the court transcript ultimately say? There must be a court record of this case, can Bill produce it?? If there was a success, put it on the web.

Liens/preservations of interest placed against judges or other persons - true, but read article references below about the outlawing of this methodology in certain US States even as of several years ago.

NB: Bill says the 1950s Report of the Reece Committee on Foundations is on the website.


I'm leaving it there. I have the feeling of being trapped in a matrix of artifical complexity with this material about sovereignty. See show suggestion at end.
Draconian, anti-libertarian legislation is being passed in various countries whose democratic tap root has been corrupted and legslators have been bought, take bribes for promoting legislation and don't even read draft legislation.
The criminal law is now being deployed for extortion and revenue raising for private corporations allied with government and not for its proper role of public protection.
I know and I don't like it.
I got a PM flaming me because I asked for proof of some pretty wild sounding ideas being circulated. I don't need to prove a negative and I don't need to take anybody's jive on faith. It's for the proposer to backup their point, not me. I won't be doing a Rules For Radicals gig taking it "offline".  There's been no real debate on the shows, just assertions, although DBS does at least warn the neophyte: don't try this at home.

So here are some contrary views, randomly selected.  Purely in the interests of reason and accuracy, you'll understand.

http://fly.hiwaay.net/~becraft/deadissues.htm

DESTROYED ARGUMENTS (2010)


"VI. Filing 1099s against IRS Agents:

At one time, some asserted that when an agent of the government inflicted damage upon
somebody, the proper response should be filing a Form 1099 against the agent because the agent was
"enriched" by the damage so inflicted. Parties doing this went to jail.

1. United States v. Yagow, 953 F.2d 423 (8th Cir. 1992)
2. United States v. Kuball, 976 F.2d 529 (9th Cir. 1992)
3. United States v. Dykstra, 991 F.2d 450 (8th Cir. 1993).

Of course, today we have essentially the same thing in the format of filing common law liens. More
than enough people have gone to jail with such lunacy. Recently Roger Elvick, who went to jail for
doing this, has again incorporated into his "redemption process" this same scheme."


"X. The Flag Issue:

An argument first popularized by "David Wynn: Miller" is that the gold fringed flag indicates the
admiralty jurisdiction of the court. Naturally, pro ses have made this argument and lost.

1. Vella v. McCammon, 671 F.Supp. 1128, 1129 (S.D. Tex. 1987)(the argument has "no arguable
basis in law or fact")
2. Comm. v. Appel, 652 A.2d 341, 343 (Pa.Super. 1994)(the contention is a "preposterous claim")
3. United States v. Schiefen, 926 F.Supp. 877, 884 (D.S.D. 1995)(in this case, the CFR cross reference
index argument, those regarding the UCC, common law courts and the flag issue were rejected)
4. McCann v. Greenway, 952 F.Supp. 647 (W.D.Mo. 1997)
5. Sadlier v. Payne, 974 F.Supp. 1411 (D.Utah 1997)
6. Schneider v. Schlaefer, 975 F.Supp. 1160 (E.D.Wis. 1997).

I thought this crazy idea had ceased acceptance, but today there are others who are again
promoting it. "Deja moo" all over again."

"XI. Common Law Court:
These courts have been declared non-existent.
1. Kimmel v. Burnet County Appraisal Dist., 835 S.W.2d 108, 109 (Tex.App. 1992)."


"XXI. The 'bankruptcy of the United States" as alleged by "congressman" Traficant:
I have heard people discuss statements by "congressman" Traficant allegedly made back in 1993
where he stated in the Congressional Record that the US was bankrupt and this bankruptcy
happened back in 1933. This statement has been used to support UCC arguments about the
bankruptcy of the United States.

Frank F. checked the accuracy of this alleged Traficant statement and found it to be utterly false.
Here is what he said in a recent e-mail:

'This is 99% bogus.
You'll notice that it claims to be from the Congressional Record of March 17, 1993,
page H-1303, and a speech from Rep. James Traficant (D-Oh). It starts with a double
quote mark and it ends much later with another double quote mark.
Except for the first paragraph (the first 66 words), it is a fake.
Traficant's own words run from "Mr. Speaker ...." to " ... our demise" and that's the
only portion from him or from the Congressional Record.
Trafficant was arguing against deficit spending, and everything else in the article
(starting from the words "It is an established fact ...") is fake. Traficant never said them.
In fact, if Traficant thought that the Banking Emergency Act of 1933 was Public Law
89-719, we'd all have reason to doubt his soundness of mind, because the Public Law
number is clearly decades after 1933 -- in fact it is the number of the Federal Tax Lien
Act of 1966. Ditto for the pretended title and description of HJR 192 (of 1933). All of
that, including the references to canon law and maritime insurance, is fakery, falsely
attributed to Traficant.
The actual page from the Congressional Record is here. Please excuse the copy quality of this PDF
file as it was obtained from microfiche. This page proves that those who allege that Traficant made
this statement are not telling the truth.' ..."


    {Note this misrepresented Traficant position is in the extract  from Icke's book Tales From The Time Loop included in the file FreemanO.T.L.(PossibleDisinformation)-Sources.zip:}

http://www.datafilehost.com/download-e9c33fc3.html


And this one... I never thought I'd find myself quoting from an ADL page but here's what came up with some other pages from elsewhere but to similar effect. It's plainly mud slinging against personalities like George Gordon but whether consciously or otherwise it does state the practical value of the freeman meme; which is to promote civil disobedience by disrupting the courts irrespective of the validity of the legal philosophy behind it:

http://www.adl.org/mwd/common.asp

Common Law and Uncommon Courts: An Overview of the Common Law Court Movement (1997)

"The courts ruled the liens invalid, as always, but the tactic nevertheless proved highly frustrating to public officials trying to perform their duties. Common law court adherents found placing liens a successful tactic because the liens discouraged officials from acting against Posse members, they clogged the legal system, and sometimes had other uses as well. "

"Recently, many states have passed new laws making such liens easy to remove or making the filing of bogus liens criminal. Other states have dusted off old laws against impersonating public officials or criminal syndicalism in an attempt to deal with the actions of these courts. In most cases it is too soon to tell whether these new efforts will enjoy success. It is important to note, however, that in almost every case, the states have been reactive in nature, responding sluggishly to the tactics of the common law court movement. In contrast, the common law movement itself has so far proven itself extremely creative in discovering new strategies and tactics."

"While a 1996 common law activist might engage in a similar battle, perhaps over a home mortgage, a zoning restriction, or in retaliation for a divorce action, there are a growing number of committed common law adherents who openly advocate common law tactics as a way to overload the legal and judicial system, with the ultimate goal of eventually bringing it down together. One of the reasons the Montana Freemen taught people how to issue bogus money orders was to destroy the hated Federal Reserve System. Others were content with lesser goals, such as flooding local county clerks' offices and local courts with so much common law activity that local officials would be too distracted to perform their lawful duties. This tactic has been especially effective in sparsely populated counties, where county governments have neither the staff nor resources to cope with such efforts. Another more immediate result of this strategy has been attrition, as many public officials and employees have become so frustrated dealing with these tactics that they have resigned from public service."



And last, from George Gordon (Ognir mentioned his stuff on a show, I don't know, about 18 months ago and recently someone's quoted GG's mp3s in another thread). GG himself, despite being blackened by the ADL in their above article, says on his own website:

http://library.georgegordon.com/miniclass#Strawman

Strawman & Other Silver Bullet Scams:

"George is also offering this 6 CD set, "Strawman and Other Silver-bullet Scams" covering the various scams being sold as 'silver bullets,' i.e. solutions to all your problems with little, if any, effort being required on your part. The problem with these scams is that each of them has failed, repeatedly, in court... and the poor guy who follows them usually ends up losing his shirt and house and/or going to jail. The scams covered in this 8 hour set range from the UCC 1-207 plans that have been floated around for years, to the currently popular 'Strawman' swindle. The included paperwork lists cites of the various cases that have ruled against each of these arguments. Call Jackie now to get your copy of this invaluable resource on the various scams being touted each day over the air and the Net, through the mails and in lectures across the country."


Maybe get an interview on the freeman/sovereign subject with George Gordon?

IMPORTANT: It would be nice to hear, for instance if Treaties that the US makes have the force of law immedately the USA makes them with the relevant sovereign country OR if they must first be ENACTED by an Act of Congress adopting them as internal law in the USA to have the force of law in the USA. The former gives massively more of an opportunity for abuse. Also Presidential Executive Orders which have been heavily used from at least the 1930s to restrict liberties. They too are contempated by the Constitution itself.

It's a legal reality: international law is the law of the land.  Go with the freeman and you risk being tarred a domestic terrorist.