Obama: Torture memos show we 'lost our moral bearings'

[MikeWB]

Obama: Torture memos show we 'lost our moral bearings' - now Bush officials could be prosecuted
By MAIL FOREIGN SERVICE
Last updated at 6:11 PM on 21st April 2009

Comments (18)
Add to My Stories
U.S. President Barack Obama has left the door open to prosecution of Bush administration officials who devised harsh terrorism-era interrogation tactics, he said today.

And he said memos detailing gruesome torture under George Bush reflect the U.S. 'losing our moral bearings'.

The president refused to define in black and white his stance on Bush administration lawyers who approved tactics such as waterboarding and sleep deprivation.

'There are a host of very complicated issues involved,' he said.


Barack Obama, standing alongside CIA chief Leon Panetta,  visited the agency's headquarters yesterday. He told staff that their expertise was vital in the fight against Al Qaeda

Instead he left the ball firmly in the attorney general's court, saying any possible prosecution 'is going to be more of a decision for the attorney general within the parameters of various laws and I don't want to prejudge that.'

Speaking at the White House today, Mr Obama also said he worries about the impact of high-intensity hearings on how detainees were treated under former  Bush.

But he added that he could support a congressional investigation - so long as it was conducted in a balanced manner.

 
More...
'I need you more than ever,' says Obama as he visits CIA headquarters just days after waterboarding storm
America used water torture 266 times on just two suspects
The 'lost files' that suggest MI5 did collude in CIA interrogation
Such an investigation must be conducted 'outside of the typical hearing process' and with the participation of 'independent participants who are above reproach,' he said.

'I'm not saying that it should be done, I'm saying that if you've got a choice,' the president added.

The president has already said he does not support charging CIA agents and interrogators who took part in waterboarding and other harsh interrogation tactics, acting on advice from superiors that such practices were legal.


Former Vice President Dick Cheney believes America does not need to apologize for its' foreign policy

And he made clear that his preference would be not to revisit the era extensively.

'As a general view, I do think we should be looking forward, not back,' he said. 'I do worry about this getting so politicized that we cannot function effectively and it hampers our ability to carry out critical national security operations.'

The president spoke as former Vice President Dick Cheney insisted America has 'nothing to apologise for' and demanded he release evidence that torture - waterboarding in particular - was successful.

'Since the U.S. provides most leadership in the world,  I don't think we have much to apologise for,' said Cheney.

His comments follow Obama's pledge of support yesterday to CIA chief Leon Panetta to make public the classified information on the widely-condemned waterboarding

'One of the things that I find a little bit disturbing about this recent disclosure is they put out the legal memos, the memos that the CIA got from the Office of Legal Counsel, but they didn't put out the memos that showed the success of the effort,' Cheney told Fox News last night.

'I haven't talked about it, but I know specifically of reports that I read, that I saw, that lay out what we learned through the interrogation process and what the consequences were for the country.

'I've now formally asked the CIA to take steps to declassify those memos so we can lay them out there and the American people have a chance to see what we obtained and what we learned and how good the intelligence was.

'It's important to not personally attack the new president - I've never done that.

'There's a great temptation for a new administration to find a problem and blame it on the predecessor. We did it.  

'The Obama administration is not the first one to do that,' he added.

Waterboarding - now outlawed by Obama - was launched by former President George W Bush after the September 11 attacks.

One memo said waterboarding - a form of stimulated drowning widely-considered torture - had been used a total of 266 times on two of the three Al Qaeda suspects.

The U.S. Justice Department said that CIA interrogators used the technique 183 times on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the self-proclaimed planner of the September 11 attacks and 83 times on another Al Qaeda prisoner, Abu Zubaydah.

The memo appears to contradict a former CIA officer who claimed two years ago, when the waterboarding claims first surfaced amid a huge public outcry, that Zubaydah had been subjected to the technique for just 35 seconds before agreeing to tell everything he knew.

The impression given was that, while the technique might be harrowing, it was brief and brought immediate results.


In this reconstruction, the subject is strapped down and waterboarded. The technique simulates drowning

Obama said the memos were released because they had become the subject of a burdensome court fight and their covert nature had already been compromised.

Panetta vowed to respect a ban on harsh interrogations that Obama issued in January. He had opposed releasing the memos, joining former CIA directors concerned that their release could expose agents to retribution.

Cheney's comments follow Obama's visit to CIA headquarters where he emphasised the importance of the CIA's role in the fight against al Qaeda.

'We live in dangerous times. I am going to need you more than ever,' Obama said.

He advised the employees not to be discouraged by public discussion of 'mistakes'.

The visit represented a swift bid by Obama to shore up CIA morale after he released classified Bush-era legal memos last week detailing the interrogation program.

Republican Kit Bond, vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said the release of the memos was a signal to CIA employees that 'our government is not going to stand behind you'.

Obama pledged to employees that he would be 'vigorous' in protecting them.
Obama also drew anger from human rights groups, by saying last week he would not prosecute CIA interrogators who had relied on the Bush-era legal guidelines.

The Democratic head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Dianne Feinstein, urged him to withhold judgement on prosecutions, pending a closed-door review by her committee of the interrogation program.    

Obama also acknowledged that CIA senior leaders in recent conversations had demonstrated 'anxiety and concern' over his limits on interrogation techniques.

[mgt23]

i have a suggestion....lets waterboard bush, Meir Dagan and netenyahu and see what they know about 911 and then deprive them of sleep 180 hours at a time just to spite them? no? oh well maybe TiU is just plain ol civilised.

Question to members of TiU: If you had intel that one of your suspects knows the location of a nuclear bomb planted in a major capital city, would you have him tortured to get the location saving millions of lives?

[MikeWB]

Question to members of TiU: If you had intel that one of your suspects knows the location of a nuclear bomb planted in a major capital city, would you have him tortured to get the location saving millions of lives?

It's quite pointless to discuss this because scenario like that is HIGHLY improbable and the chances of it ever happening are slim to none and whatever conclusion people draw from it will be used to justify torture of everyone. It's a slippery slope. In short, it's as useful to think about that scenario as it is to think about "what if the Moon falls down on Earth" scenario.

Torture is just plain wrong and all these pieces of shit that authorized it should be jailed.

[mgt23]

i agree mike, i only ask because dick cheney is saying today that obama didn't publish the success of the torture in counter terrorism ops in getting info. I was wondering if anyone else thinks thinks torture is acceptable in ANY form. I personally dont think it is in any way, even if it would save millions of lives. but i wanted to see if anyone had a counter view on this hypothetical question.

[MikeWB]

i agree mike, i only ask because dick cheney is saying today that obama didn't publish the success of the torture in counter terrorism ops in getting info. I was wondering if anyone else thinks thinks torture is acceptable in ANY form. I personally dont think it is in any way, even if it would save millions of lives. but i wanted to see if anyone had a counter view on this hypothetical question.

We're in complete agreement!

Also, info that you get out of torture is also completely useless. When people start torturing you, after a day, you'll probably admit & sign anything for them to stop.

I'd like to see these monsters that approve of torture present one case that shows how torture saved someone's life. For every one of those, if it exists, there's thousands of cases where it didn't do anything but destroy someone's life.

[mgt23]

We're in complete agreement!

a rare moment indeed :lol: