Documentary with a New Paradigm- What has been the Role of the Jews in the NWO? You'll be Surprise !

[MikeWB]

Yeah, after posting that last link I found an interview with A Christopher and heard all about the aliens [sigh].

Thanx MikeWB for the link, thanx very much.  Unfortunately it's a windows doc (I'm on mac), but I'll keep looking and/or finally install some office soft for my mac.  

Cheers

uroko, I'm on a Mac as well. You mean a PowerPoint? You can download/buy MS Office for Mac (it's on pirate bay) or you can install free & open source Open Office or get NeoOffice (also free) https://www.neooffice.org/neojava/en/ea ... wnload.php or install iWork (also on pirate bay). Also, built-in QuickLook allows you to view PPT! That's what I use 95% of the time (iWork for when I need to edit them).

[Anonymous]

Pandora's Box more BI propaganda

[uroko]

Sorry, what does "BI" mean?

As for propoganda, everything is propoganda, everything is one person or group trying to convince other persons or groups of a particular point of view, and everyone colors, cherry picks and fabricates to some degree or another.   I am particularly interested in Pandora's Box because John van Hove (or whatever his name is) mentioned the bloodlines, and mentioned that the real people in charge are people you have never even heard of.   I suspect this to be true, I know that one of the most powerful families on the planet are the Veres.  I'd like to know who the others are, and if Pandoras Box does indeed identify the Veres I can attribute some credence to other information.  

Yes, I'm suspicious when I find out that a researcher claims there are aliens and reptile-people, yes, please give me a break.  But even David Icke, a nut-job in my opinion, and others do assemble some valid information (and mix it up with a lot of bunk IMO - the trick is learning how to separate the two - and that involves using common sense and numerous sources).   Michael Tsarion is a great example - he's not a kook like Icke, but he does have his quirks - everything is '.... of Aten'.   The Lion of Aten, the Cult of Aten.  By what logic?  He never explains.  Tsarion believes civilization began with the Irish.  By what logic?  He never really explains.   There's just as good a reason to believe that Ireland got it (or I should say, were influenced) from the near-East.  BUT, he's a diligent researcher and has produced a wealth of information useful for someone like me trying to fit the pieces of the puzzle together.  

The smartest guy on the planet regarding all of this stuff IMO, is John of Texas ('Tracing Ladon Gog and the Hebrew Rose').  I don't share his religious leanings (I'm not religious at all) nor do I buy into religious prophesy other than to recognize it as a very effective propoganda tool, but John is way ahead of me in seeing the big picture, at least I think so, and his focus is all about bloodlines, families and tribes stretching back to antiquity.

I don't know if I mentioned this or not - I have followed John's additions to his book (of which there have been none lately, unfortunately) for several years now, and have even talked very briefly with him via email.   We both hit on the same eye-opening revalation independently and at the same time - which is that Judah=Zeus.   My route to this was through genealogy charts, correlations between Darda in the bible and Dardanus and Danaus of Greek Mythology.  They seemed to all talk about the same person, upon when it hit me that the proto-Viking/Frank future Trojans split off from the proto-Israelites and called their god Zeus while in the case of the Israelites the name Judah seemed to be close enough to warrant a connection, after all Darda was a son of Zerah who was a son of Judah.  Then one day I went to John's site and he had arrived at the same place by a different means, the closeness of Dios/Zios (Zeus) to Dion/Zion/Sion (and associated clues - enough of which convinced him, to his own dismay).

Of course, this is very difficult for someone like John, who is religious.  Not for me ... all it says to me is that the Greeks (or should I say some important Greeks), the Jews, the Vikings and the Franks (or should I say some elite and important Israelites and Trojans) all came from the same stock.  

Which sheds some light on the Spartans, a word suspiciously similar to Subartu (dragon-cult-central in Mesopotamia, later called Sophia), who are described in myth as springing from the dragons teeth that Cadmus planted after slaying the Ares Dragon.  

I'll stop myself ... heaven knows, I could spout on forever about this stuff !!!

Anyway, thanx for all the links and interest ...

[mgt23]

BI = British Israelism

[uroko]

With all due respect, the Central Bankers, even if named, if they are on a published list, are not the people in charge.  I doubt the Rothschilds are really in charge.   After 2 centuries of sucking up the world's assets they very might well be, and maybe this is the key point.   But I'm still holding my cards, I'm still searching.

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

So uroko,

What do you think of "millenialism" today? Is there a Second coming of some sort? Will "God" ever rule the world again?

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

You might find this of interest. The Goths were also from the same region as the Khazars-Huns about the 450 AD:
-------

The Merovingians

With the collapse of the Khazar Empire in the tenth century, the Khazars were forced to move into other parts of Europe, where they contributed in producing the aristocracies of Hungary, Bulgaria and Poland. A particular woman was important in this nexus, named Dubrawka of Bomehia, through whom these various bloodlines coalesced, to produce the important occult families of Western Europe.

From her descendants emerged the important union between this Khazar heritage, and the emerging bloodlines of Western Europe, the most important of which was that of the Merovingians, originally from Scythia. It is commonly repeated in occult circles that Mary Magdalene had brought to southern France a child she bore to Jesus, and that her lineage was survived among the Merovingians. A descendant of Mary Magdalene and this Jesus, Quintus Tarus, a prefect of Rome, married Argotta, heiress of the Franks, to father King Merovech, ancestor of the Merovingians dynasty.

However, into the Merovingian dynasty there was also introduced the line of Rabbi Makhir, or Natronai, a representative of the Jewish Exilarchs, who ruled the Jewish communities of the Muslim world from Baghdad. He was supposedly the father Guillaume de Gellone, one of the most famous heroes of the Medieval romances.
A dispute apparently arose as to successorship to the Exilarchate, and Natronai lost his claim and was banished to "the West". According to historian Arthur Zuckerman, Makhir would have adopted the Christian name Theodoric, or Thierry, and assumed the title of King of the Jews, and ruled over the independent state of Septimania in southern France, with the city of Narbonne as its capital.42 In the romances Theirry is called Aymery, the father of Guillaume de Gellone. The device of his shield was the Lion of Judah.

As late as 1143, Peter the Venerable of Cluny, in an address to Louis VII of France, condemned the Jews of Narbonne who continued to claim to have a king residing among them, a claim based presumably on the legend of Makhir. In 1144, Theobald, a Cambridge monk, spoke of "the chief Princes and Narbonne where the royal seed resides." In 1165-66 Benjamin of Tudela, the famous Jewish traveller and chronicler, reports that in Narbonne there are "sages, magnates and princes at the head of whom is... a remnant of the House of David as stated in his family tree."43

Guillaume married into the family of Charlemagne, ruler of what came to be known as the first important European power, the Holy Roman Empire. As well as being descended from the Merovingians, Charlemagne was also descended from the Mithraic bloodline. The intermarriage of the House of Herod, the Julio-Claudian dynasty, the House of Commagene, and priest-kings of Emeasa, bifurcated into two important directions. One of these was the imperial line that eventually produced Constantine. These two bloodlines were finally reunited in the person of St. Arnulf, Bishop of Metz, the great-grandfather of Charlemagne.44

It is frequently claimed by genealogists that all of European aristocracy can claim descent from Charlemagne. From the combined heritage of the Merovingians, Charlemagne and Guillaume of Gellone, emerged the kings of France, who would continue to use the Kabbalistic symbol of the lily as their heraldic symbol.

William of Gellone's sister Ida Redburga, married Egbert of Wessex, later first king of England. Egbert was the great-grandfather of Edward the Elder, King of England. Dubrawka's parents were Adiva, the daughter of Edward the Elder, and Boleslav I, the Duke of Bohemia, who became the first king of an independent Bohemia, in 955 AD. In 965 AD, a Jewish merchant named Ibrahim ibn Jakub noted that the Jews of Prague, the capital of Bohemia, were important persons and active in both local and long-distant trade. According to the Letter of King Joseph, when a Jewish foreign minister to the Sultan of Cordova, Spain, attempted to transmit a letter to the king of the Khazars, it was the envoys of Boleslav I, who were then in Cordova, who intervened. They offered to send the letter to Jews living in Hungary, who, in their turn, would transmit it to Russia, and from there through Bulgaria, to the Khazars.

Dubrawka married Mieszko I King of Poland. Their daughter married Geza Arpad, King of Hungary, and leader of the Magyars who also claimed descent from the Scythia. Their daughter married Gavril Radomir, the son of Samuil, Tsar of Bulgaria. Samuil was one of four sons of Nikola Kumet, Count of Bulgaria. Another branch of the Turks, the Bulgars, during the seventh century, had come under Khazar domination, with whom they shared a language. The Khazars forced some Bulgars to move to the upper Volga River region where the independent state of Volga Bulgaria was founded, while other Bulgars fled to modern-day Bulgaria.

Nikola married the daughter of the Shahanshah of the Bagratid dynasty of Armenia. The Bagratunis, who had become rulers of Armenia, in the ninth century AD, claimed Jewish descent. Moses of Chorene, who wrote a History of Armeni, the middle of the fifth century AD, stated that an Armenian king had joined Nebuchadnezzar in his first campaign against the Jews, and took part in the siege of Jerusalem.45 From among the captives he selected the distinguished Jewish chief Shambat, purportedly descended from Tamar of the Davidic Dynasty, and brought him with his family to Armenia.46 Through Jewish influence, Nikola Kumet's sons were all given Jewish names, which included David, Moses, and Aaron.

These Bulgarian Czars became defenders of Bogomilism, a Gnostic heresy that developed from Manichaeism and Pauliciansism. In 970 AD, the Byzantine emperor transplanted as many as 200,000 Armenian Paulicians and settled them in the Balkans, which then became the centre for the spread of their doctrines. Signifying in Slavonic "friends of God", their doctrine maintained the impotence of Christ and the need to instead appease Satan. Nicetas Choniates, a Byzantine historian of the twelfth century, described the followers of this cult as Satanists because, "considering Satan powerful they worshipped him lest he might do them harm."47

When England was invaded by Denmark, Ethelred the Unready, the son and successor of Edward the Elder, and therefore Dubrawka's uncle, was forced to flee from England to seek shelter in Normandy. However, when a struggle for succession persisted, after Ethelred's death, Ethelred's other son, Edward the Confessor, and Alfred Atheling, remained in Exile. When the dispute was resolved in 1040 AD, Edward the Confessor was invited back from Normandy, to become his co-ruler of England.
When Edward the Confessor heard that another half-brother, Edward the Exile, the son of Ethelred the Unready by another woman, was still alive, he had him recalled to England and made him his heir. As a child, to protect him from his enemies, Edward the Exile was secretly sent to Kiev, and then made his way to Hungary. In Hungary, Edward the Exile married Agatha of Bulgaria, the daughter of Gavril Radomir of Bulgaria. Agatha's mother was the grand-daughter of Mieszko I and Dubrawka.

Edward the Exile died shortly after his return, so Edward made his great nephew Edgar Atheling his heir. But Edgar had no secure following among the nobles. The resulting succession crisis opened the way for the successful invasion led by William the Conqueror, Duke of Normandy. The Normans were descended from Rollo the Viking, a Viking leader, who married Poppa of Bavaria, the great-granddaughter of Guillaume of Gellone, and from whom were descended the Dukes of Normandy. Rollo came from the Orkneys, a few dozen small islands in northern Scotland. The islands were invaded by Vikings in the ninth century, where they ruled as Jarls, and made them headquarters for their raiding expeditions.

The daughter of Edward the Exile and Agatha of Bulgaria became St. Margaret Queen of Scotland, after marrying Malcolm III of Scotland. Their son was David I of Scotland, whose sister, Editha, married Henry I King of England, the son of William the Conqueror. Their daughter, Editha of Scotland, married Geoffrey V Plantagenet, a French descendant of Guillaume de Gellone, through the House of Anjou. Their son was Henry II, who became King of England in 1154 AD, and married Eleanore of Aquitaine. Eleanore bore Henry II five sons and three daughters, one of whom was Richard I, "the Lion-Hearted", who succeeded his father as king of England, and under whom the Angevin Empire attained its height.

Footnote:

42 Zuckerman, Arthur J. A Jewish Princedom in Feudal France, 768-900. New York: Columbia University Press, 1972.
43 Baigent, Leigh and Lincoln. Holy Blood Holy Grail, p. 395
44 James Allen Dow, "Robert (Count) de HESBAYE"
45 "Bagratuni", Jewish Encyclopedia.
46 James Allen Dow. "Tamar (Heiress) of the DAVIDIC Dynasty"
47 Wesbter. Secret Societies and Subversive Sects, p. 64

http://www.surrenderingislam.com/surren ... rovingians

Culture of Gothic Septimania

The native population of Gallia was referred to by Visigothic and Iberian writers as the "Gauls" and there is a well-attested hatred between the Goths and the Gaul which was atypical for the kingdom as a whole.[11] The Gauls commonly insulted the Goths by comparing the strength of their men to that of Gaulish women, though the Spaniards regarded themselves as the defenders and protectors of the Gauls. It is only in the time of Wamba and Julian of Toledo, however, that a large Jewish population becomes evident in Septimania: Julian referred to it as a "brothel of blaspheming Jews."[12]

Thanks to the preserved canons of the Council of Narbonne of 590, a good deal can be known about surviving pagan practices in Visigothic Septimania. The Council may have been responding in part to the orders of the Third Council of Toledo, which found "the sacrilege of idolatry [to be] firmly implanted throughout almost the whole of Iberia and Septimania."[13] The Roman pagan practice of not working Thursdays in honour of Jupiter was still prevalent.[14] The council set down penance to be done for not working on Thursday save for church festivals and commanded the practice of Martin of Braga, rest from rural work on Sundays, to be adopted.[14] Also punished by the council were fortunetellers, who were publicly lashed and sold into slavery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septimania

----------------

Merovingians & Dagobert

Extracts from:
1. Da Vinci Code Decoded, written by Martin Lunn. Website: http://www.davincicodedecoded.com/
2. The paths of Kind Dagobert, a new practical guide, written by Jean-Pierre Bousigues, translation Gay Roberts.

Clovis   
The Merovingians

The Merovingians ruled much of present-day France and Germany between the fifth and seventh centuries. The beginning of this time coincides with not only the Grail stories, but with the era of King Arthur, who was so central to many of these tales. There was never any question that the Merovingians were the rightful rulers of the Franks. They were not "created" as kings. The sons who were entitled became kings automatically on their twelfth birthdays. Their role was not to govern - that was left to the "Mayors of the Palace." They were simply expected to exist as representatives of the role, holding similar power and status to a twenty-first century constitutional monarch.

The Merovingians had a reputation for the occult and the supernatural. They were looked upon as priest-kings, much as the Egyptian pharaohs were regarded.
Bee

One of the abiding symbols of the Merovingians was the bee. Hundreds of pure gold bees were found in King Childeric's tomb. The custom endured through the centuries. When Napoleon was crowned emperor in 1804, he made sure that golden bees were attached to his coronation robes. He was fascinated by the Merovingians and commissioned their genealogies to be compiled in order to find out whether the dynasty had survived after it had been deposed. These formed the basis of the genealogies found in the Priory of Sion documents.
Dagobert II

Dagobert was born in 651 and when Clovis, his father, died in 656, all efforts were made to prevent him from inheriting Austrasia, the north-eastern realm of Clovis.
Dagobert II, king of Austrasia The leading Mayor of the Palace of the time, Grimoald, kidnapped Dagobert as soon as his father died and managed to persuade the court first that Dagobert was dead, and second that Clovis had wanted Grimoald's son to inherit the throne. So convincing was he that even Dagobert's mother believed him.

However, Grimoald had been unable to bring himself to murder Dagobert and had taken him to the Bishop of Poitiers, who had the child King exiled to Ireland. Here he grew up and was educated at the monastery of Slane near Dublin. He married a Celtic princess, Mathilde, and moved to York in northern England, where he got to know Saint Wilfred, the Bishop of York. At this time, the Merovingian alliance with the Roman Church was not as strong as it had been at the time of Clovis.

Wilfred was very keen to bring the Celtic and Roman churches together, which both sides had agreed upon at the Council of Whitby in 664. However, it seems that Wilfred also recognized the valuable potential of Dagobert - the rightful King of Austrasia - returning to France and reclaiming the land as the militant representative of the Church.

Dagobert's wife died in 670 and Wilfred was swift to ensure that Dagobert's next wife was chosen with care. She was Giselle de Razes, the daughter of the Count of Razes and the niece of the King of the Visigoths. This alliance between the Merovingians and the Visigoths would not only have brought much of France under the same rule, it would have empowered Rome over the Visigoths.
Austrasia formed the north-eastern portion of the Kingdom of the Merovingian Franks, comprising parts of the territory of present-day eastern France, western Germany, Belgium, and the Netherlands. Metz served as its primary capital, although some Austrasian kings ruled from Rheims also.

They married at the church of St. Magdeleine in Rennes-le-Chateau. Having had four daughters through his two marriages, Dagobert now became the father to a son in 676 - Sigisbert IV.

King of Austrasia

After living three years at Rennes-le-Chateau, Dagobert was proclaimed the King of Austrasia. He quickly set about re-establishing order throughout his new kingdom and in so doing greatly increased his wealth.

He did not, however, live up to Wilfred's expectations. Therefore, inevitably, with his new-found wealth and lands, he developed enemies. He also caused the resentment of the rulers of neighboring Frankish lands, some of whom had connections in Dagobert's court that could be dangerous to him. One of these was his Mayor to the Palace, the treacherous Pepin the Fat.
Austrasia & Neustrasia

King Dagobert II, thirteenth king of Austrasia, was threatened by Ebroïn, who was Mayor of the palace to Thierry, king of Neustria. Ebroïn administered Neustria unchecked and he wanted to seize Austrasia as well.
Under the guidance of Wulfoad, his own Mayor of the palace, Dagobert II had given his son Sigebert a share of his throne. But the King of Austrasia's sensible precautions were thwarted by Ebroin.

The assassination
The year 679 was coming to its end and Dagobert was living in his royal house, SATHANACUM - known today as Stenay - where he was to spend the Christmas holiday. On 23rd December, he went out hunting in the forest of "Wepria" (known today as Woëvre) with a number of followers. Around the middle of the day, tired from the hunt, the king sat down near a fountain, which ran near to a large oak, to take some rest. It is still called ARPHAYS, and the section of the forest known as "SCORTlA" One of the servants among the conspirators struck the king while he was praying.

Dagobert, last king of a wide and powerful realm, perished, dying while doing good.
The king's body was taken first to the villa of Charmois, during the evening of 23rd December, then to the basilica of Sathanacum, which at that time was dedicated to Saint Rémi. All the dignitaries of the realm came to mourn the death of the sovereign.

Fountain of Arphays
Saint Dagobert II
The Roman Church wasted no time in commending the action. However, perhaps through guilt, they canonized Dagobert in 872, when his remains were moved to the graveyard of a church which was renamed "the Church of Saint Dagobert." They even gave him his own feast day, on December 23rd. This day also happened to be sacred to the Benjamite tribe. The Roman Catholic Church has always been unable or unwilling to explain why he was canonized.

From the day of his burial in the Church of Saint Dagobert, his grave has been a destination of pilgrimage for various significant historical figures including the Duke of Lorraine, the grandfather of Godfroi de Bouillon. The church was destroyed during the French Revolution and most of the relics of Saint Dagobert disappeared. Today only what is believed to be his skull remains, and it is held at a convent at Mons. Curiously some years later, a poem entitled "de Sancta Dagoberto martyre prose" appeared. Its message was that Dagobert had been martyred for some reason and it was found at the Abbey of Orval.
The end of the Merovingian era

Dagobert's assassination effectively marked the end of the Merovingian era. After the death of Dagobert, the Merovingian dynasty fell into decline, although they managed to hang onto much of their status for nearly a hundred more years. However, many of the monarchs were too young to be effective, and were unable to defend themselves against the relentless ambitions of the Mayors of the Palace. Childeric III died childless in 754 and that was the clearest sign that the dynasty's flame had expired.

What became of his son Sigisbert? No-one knows. According to some, he died before his father. Others say it was at the same time or after. Still others have him slipping through the clutches

The betrayal of Clovis by the assassination of Dagobert II has been the greatest source of anguish for the Priory of Sion and the Merovingian descendants. However, there seems to have been an attempt to mitigate the insult. Thus the Carolingian royal family (the family of Emperor Charlemagne) married Merovingian princesses in order to legitimize themselves. Dagobert's son, Sigisbert, was the ancestor of Guillem de Gellone, ruler of the Jewish kingdom of Septimania in southern France and later of Godfroi de Bouillon, who captured Jerusalem during the Crusades. Thereby the bloodline of Jesus Christ, the Davidic line, was restored back to the throne that had been rightfully its own since the time of the Old Testament.

http://cottage.moulin-le-cygne.com/merovingians.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_ ... ian_Plains

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

Gnostic Connection to Tarot Cards
topic posted Tue, November 3, 2009 - 6:39 AM by  offlineYogi-Ogi    Share/Save/Bookmark
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Is there a possible connection between the arcane designs of Tarot Cards and developments in Spain with the expulsion of the Jews, and much later the Moriscos. The acculturated Catholicised Moriscos, some of whom went to Marseilles, some to Tuscany, another returned to Tunisia/Morrocco and some even to Turkey and Germany. Paul Foster Case suggests Tunisia as the womb of Tarot Divination, Marseilles as the midwife and Italy as the kindergarten. If Moses de Leon was or is the author of the Sefer Yetzirah then that would explain a previous link to Qabballah. In Italy a romantic trend prevailed with cards being played primarily by women (men using chess or draughts as a diversion) with relevant advice in matters of AMOUR and a chivalric code of behaviour.
By 1379 the Arabs and Moors became mercenary soldiers to the Popes Urban VI and Clement VII against other rival Italian Princes. They remained in S. Spain until 1492 where card games were known as "naipes" (from the Arabic word Naib), a word that may have derived from a Flemish word meaning paper (knaep), as commercial trading between Flanders and Spain was common at that time. Contrary to popular assertions, travelling bands of gypsies could not have been responsible for their invention or original dissemination because the Romany people did not appear in Europe until the middle of the 15th century. Other experts have attributed the invention of Tarot cards to the ascetic military order of the Knight Templars founded in 1118 by Hugh Payens to protect pilgrims venturing to the Crusades. This idea is somewhat fanciful but may have some basis in the Templars obscure connection with two other heretical sects; the Cathars of France, associated with Pagan Gnosticism and the Bogomils of Hungary, associated with Manichaeian Dualism. Both of these sects were despised and persecuted by the Catholic Church and the Knight Templars were also later branded similarly and some followers and leaders executed as heretics. Popular games, whether with boards, dice, cards and such-like were common in the eastern cultures and treated with less derision and superstition by their priests and sages. In many respects they became a means of instruction and education, many of which have percolated into contemporary western cultures such as the game of "snakes & ladders" for example. The 16 Court Cards for example coincide with 16 characters in Geomancy.
posted by:

http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/1b534f ... d4c7e1439e



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Some writings from a dear Tarot Teacher and dearly departed Mentor of mine, Ditch Gault (Richard A. Gault):

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The oldest known Tarot deck is one reputed to have been painted by Jacquemin Grigonneur for Charles VI of France, about 1390 A.D. Seventeen of the designs remain in the Bibliotheque Nationale in Paris. (Some scholars feel that these are beautiful Italian fakes of a later date!) The "Charles VI Deck" contains the following cards: The Fool, Emperor, Pope, Lovers, World, Temperence, Fortitude, Justice, Moon, Sun, Chariot, Hermit, Hanged Man, Death, Tower, Judgement and one solitary Page of Swords. The trumps are not numbered, so it is unlikely that the deck was ever intended for gaming.

(Snip!)

In order to give a history of where the Tarot came from, only speculation can fill the gaps. The tarot contains elements from many fields, but some elements can be said to be very strong: 1) Neoplatonism, and other western elements from ancient mystery religions; 2) Kabbalism, and other related forms of Jewish mysticism; 3) Islamic mysticism–Sufism; 4)Christian mysticism and heresy; 5) perhaps a smattering of far-eastern thought. These will allow us to trace a theoretical route taken by the elusive Tarot deck. In its last stop before completion lastly, it picked up a heavy dose of Celtic craziness.

I personally believe that the Tarot deck, or a Proto-tarot, was spread from Persia by various mystic sects in Islam. Secondly, I believe that it was brought into southern France by the Cathar Church. I also believe that this deck was probably a "mnemonic" teaching device, used by both Islamic and Christian mystics in Europe. The Religious Wars of Spain, the Heresy Pograms, and the Holy Office of the Inquisition may have irradicated both the people who used the deck and any gloss they may have left behind. It is also my opinion that the proto-Tarot entered Europe BEFORE the Crusades and the "Renaissance" of the 12th Century.

(NOTE: See Idries Shah's book "The Sufis" for his reference to an Islamic origin of playing cards.) (Snip!)

By the 1400's, the Deck is already in Europe.

Sometime earlier, the deck was probably carried into Spain by a Sufi Mystic—where it made its way over the Pyrenees into the hotbed of heresy known as Provence. From about 960, Provencals had engaged in trafficking information with the Arab Intelligencia located mostly in Madrid. In 967 a cleric and mathematician named Gerbert (later Pope Sylvester II) crossed over into Spain for the express purpose of getting Arab Math manuscripts translated. His short stay coincides with the last years of the reign of Hakin II, the Spanish Caliph. This enlightened ruler encouraged scholarly eclecticism among Christians, Jews, and Islamic thinkers. His huge library of, perhaps, 400,000 volumes, was a haven for intellectuals at a time when there were only about 1,000 books in all of Christian Europe. When Gerber left Spain in 970, he made arrangements with a Christian, Llobert of Barcelona, for manuscripts to be translated and transhipped to him. He was especially interested in manuscripts on Mathematics and Astrology. Gerber proves, without a doubt, that there was a trade, perhaps underground, in arabic manuscripts into the Europe of the "Dark Ages.

In this century a serious Jewish scholar, G.G. Scholem, began to re-examine the history of Jewish Mysticism—Kabbalism. In his "Major Trends of Jewish Mysticism," he makes a good case for manuscripts being importated BACK INTO SPAIN by the mid-1100's. The most famous of all Kabbalistic books is the "Sepher Zohar" (Book of Splendor), which was probably written by a Spanish Kabbalist Moses de Leon ni about 1275. . .What Scholem showed was the "Zohar" was based on an EARLIER book, "The Bahir." "The Bahir" seems to have been written in Provence in the mid-1100's. He wrote: "...it is reasonable to assume that the Kabbalists of Provence who wrote or edited the book "Bahir" owe it to the influence of the catharists, the chief religious force in Provence until 1220, ie. during the years which saw the rise of Kabbalism.

Scholem also finds it probable that the writings of John the Scott or Johannes Scotus Erigena (meaning John the Scott from Ireland?!) Had considerable influence on the Provencal Kabbalists who wrote the "Bahir." John the Scott was an Irish mystic and scholar who was attached to the court of Charlemagne. In the period before the "Dark Ages" the Irish (Celtic) Catholic Church was the major power in Christendom in the west, outside of Rome. In matters of theology and scholarship, the Celtic Church was paramount. The Irish scholars were the only translators of Greek manuscripts in Western Europe, for example.

(Maggie's note: It is interesting that Shirley McLaine (in her book "The Camino") has written of a past life as a coffee-colored, dark-haired woman who walked "The Camino" as Charlemagne's companion, and talked to him about mysticism!)

Shah's point on Islamic origins is important, but his desire to debunk Kabbalistic and Christian elements may be due to his own zeal, rather than to reality. Shah knows well that long before 1,000 AD, Sufi doctrine had incorporated elements of both into its own beliefs and doctrines. The great alchemist Jabir Ibn Hayyan al-Sufi incorporated Kabbalistic number theory into his writings as early as the 700's. The Ishmaili Encyclopedists of Basra did much the same in the 900's. It is not difficult to trace their effect upon Spanish Sufis in the Middle Ages, like Ibn Arabi. The Islamic mystics and Kabbalists seem to have had close relations in Spain. An older mysticism from the Neo-platonic Celtic Church meets both Islamic and Jewish mysticism in Provence, and perhaps this interface resulted in something wholly new. One of these new things might be the European Tarot; another might be the Cathar Church of southern France.

The Cathar Church of Provence was the first major theological revolt that Christianity had suffered since the days of the early church. We really do not know when it began, except that the Church records mention the first burning of a Cathar in Piedmont, in Italy, in 1020 AD. The standard Catholic version of the Cathars sees them as a western version of the eastern Orthodox heresy known as the Bogomil Church. More recent writers such as Zoe Olderberg have argued that the Cathar church was a home grown product only superficially connected with the Bogomils. The Cathars eventually severed relations with the Manicheans of the east. They seem to have come to consider themselves as Christians in complete disagreement with Rome. Most records of the Cathars come from the Roman Church, so we should be warned that these records will present them in the worst possible light.

(Snip!)

The Cathar Church is NOT an isolated phenomenon. It is part of the entire cultural "Renaissance" which occured in Provence in the Middle Ages. Dante, as we recall, wanted to write "The Divine Comedy" in Provencal, but was convinced that he would be identified by authorities with the heresy there. Dante also built much of the mystic cosmology in the "Comedy" on the writings of Ibn Aribi, the Spanish Sufi. Among the independent thinkers of Italy in the 1300's, Provence was considered a rare haven of ecclecticism and freedom.

(Snip!)

In my opinion the Cathars are only a part of a magnificent and tragic flowering which took place, most noticiably, in Provence. Whole Multi-volumes have been devoted to the whys and wherefores of this flowering–so I can hardly clear up this historical problem in a short space. There was a new examination of Christian writings, discouraged by Rome. The writings of other people became available. There was a nostalgia for the "old religion" both Pagan and Celtic Christian. No doubt the unique similarities of various forms of mysticism, Pagan, Christian, Jewish, or Islamic, became apparent.

It is quite likely that the European Tarot deck came from the Provencal "Renaissance" as a result of the unique intercultural exchanges which existed there. The idea that the card deck originated in Islamic society seems likely, but it is also likely that the European Tarot incorporates much more than just information irroded from an original source. It is difficult to tell what is "pure" Sufism, when Sufism itself is full of borrowed elements in the first place! The idea that the Tarot we know originated with the Cathars, or similar sect, has plagued several commentators, such as Harold Bayley, A.E. Waite, and Medieval historian Steven Runciman.

http://gnostics.tribe.net/thread/1b534f ... d4c7e1439e

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

The Luciferian Bloodline

The plot for a series of World Wars in the twentieth century, culminating in
a third against the Muslim world, was devised in the nineteenth century, by
American Civil War general, Albert Pike, then Grand Master of Scottish Rite
Freemasonry, a primary adjunct of the Illuminati. However, though the final
stages of this plot have been largely reserved for our time, the conspiracy
is affiliated with a lore of occult knowledge that dates back to at least the
sixth century BC. This lore begins with a heresy, known as Kabbalah, which
disguises itself as Jewish, but is a pact to seek world domination, and the
eradication of religion in favour of the worship of Lucifer.
The goal devised by these Kabbalists has since been the installation of
their "messiah" as world leader, who, according to their interpretation of the
Bible, is to be of line of King David. Since that time, to preserve this purported
lineage, until the advent of their expected leader, these Luciferians have been
carefully intermarrying amongst each other, and have included among them
many of the leading figures of history. They begin with a Persian Royal
family, who intermarried with that of Alexander the Great. By combining
with that of Herod the Great, these families were responsible for the creation
and dissemination of the leading mystery school of the Roman Empire, the
Mysteries of Mithras, which eventually succeeded in co-opting the emerging
Christian movement, by producing Catholic Christianity.
Nevertheless, a secret, or Gnostic, version of Christianity, also derived
from Mithraism, survived to compete with Catholicism, in the form of several
secret societies, like the Templars, Rosicrucians and Freemasons, practicing
occult arts, or what is known as "witchcraft". This tradition was perpetuated
by the most popularized branch of the Luciferian bloodline, the Merovingians.
Symbolized by the Holy Grail, the Merovingians, after intermarrying into the
family of a Jewish Exilarch, or claimant to the Jewish throne, culminated in all
the leading families of the Crusades.
It was at this time that this European branch of the family recombined
with others from Eastern Europe and Armenia. These Eastern aristocracies
1
: The Lost Tribes
Terrorism and the Illuminati
8
derived from the enigmatic Khazars, who had populated southern Russia and
the Basin of the Don River, and who, in the eighth century AD, had converted
to Judaism. Legend has it, however, that the Khazars were remnants of the
Lost Tribes. Armenia, just across the Caucasus, was another locale of these
supposed Lost Tribes. It was the intermarriage and perpetuation of these
aristocratic bloodlines that were being referred to in the heraldic symbols of
the lily, the rose, the double-headed eagle, and the skull and crossbones.
Also during the Crusades, this network connected with an important
occult center hiding within the Islamic world, in Cairo Egypt, who followed
the heretical version of Islam known as Ismailism. According to Masonic
legend, a number of these "Eastern Brethren" were rescued and brought to
Scotland, where they provided the basis of Sottish Rite Freemasonry, which
emerged in the eighteenth century. However, at the same time, this legend
also provided the basis for the establishment of Freemasonry in Egypt, which
then became the second center of Illuminati activism. It was from these secret
networks of Islamic impostors by which the Western powers created Islamic
terrorism, used to foment of a Clash of Civilizations, through the fabrication
of the terrorist threat.

----------

Septimania

The Coronation of Charlemagne

The authors relied mainly on the theories of Jewish researcher Arthur Zuckerman, who constructed the thesis that in the eighth century, the Carolingian monarchs permitted the establishment of a Jewish prince in southern France, then known as Septimania, now referred as the Languedoc, with its capital at Narbonne. Zuckerman based his theory on an appendix to a fourteenth century work titled Sepher ha Kabbalah , according to which:

    Then King Charles sent to the King of Baghdad [Caliph] requesting that he dispatch one of his Jews of the seed of royalty of the House of David. He hearkened and sent him one from there, a magnate and sage, Rabbi Makhir by name. And [Charles] settled him in Narbonne, the capital city, and planted him there, and gave him a great possession there at the time he captured it from the Ishmaelites [Arabs]. And he [Makhir] took to wife a woman from among the magnates of the town; *...* and the King made him a nobleman and designed, out of love for [Makhir], good statutes for the benefit of all the Jews dwelling in the city, as is written and sealed in a Latin charter; and the seal of the King therein [bears] his name Carolus; and it is in their possession at the present time. The Prince Makhir became chieftain there. He and his descendants were close [inter-related] with the King and all his descendants.

Zuckerman maintains that this Makhir would then have assumed the Christian name of Theodoric, and married Alda, daughter of Charles Martel. The authors contend however, that Theodoric is also recognized by scholars as being also of Merovingian descent. He was known as Aymery in the romances, and was the father of Guillem de Gellone, about whom there were at least six major epic poems composed before the era of the crusades, including Willehalm, by Wolfram von Eschenbach, the most famous of the mediaeval Grail chroniclers.

However, Dr. Zuckerman's thesis has not been reviewed without some skepticism in historical journals. As Nathaniel Taylor has indicated, Zuckerman's primary sources were late manuscripts. Nevertheless, the legend became quite common, and, true or not, could have founded the basis of the Grail legends. In 1165-66 Benjamin of Tudela, a famous Jewish traveler and chronicler, reported that in Narbonne there are "sages, magnates and princes at the head of whom is... a remnant of the House of David as stated in his family tree." And, according to Taylor:

    ...the legend of Charlemagne's installation of the dynasty, and of associated grants of privileges, follows a literary pattern which was extremely common in this area in the eleventh and twelfth centuries. To embellish and mythologize the past, and particularly to invent connections to Charlemagne, was a frequent subterfuge of the area's monastic communities, but it appears also to have been true of other social groups - including the Jews. We cannot now determine the validity of the Davidic origins of the Jewish dynasty of Narbonne - or even its continuity, or the names of individual nesiim [Jewish leaders]- before the eleventh century." (Saint William, King David, and Makhir )

The Kabbalah

Portaelucis, by Paolus Ricius, Augusta (1516)

The legends of the Grail clearly pertain to figures related to some purported lineage, as well as including allusions to the Order of Templar Knights and doctrines of the Cathars. There are also evident links between the ideas present in the Grail and the Kabbalah. Wolfram von Eschenbach, the most famous of the Mediaeval Grail romances, claimed to have received his information from a Jew named Flegetanis. Furthermore, the Grail of Eschenbach corresponds almost perfectly with the symbols the grade of Kabbalistic of initiation known as Tiferet, consisting of a kind of sacrificial death, and rebirth or resurrection into another dimension. As the authors explain:

    For the medieval Kabalists the initiation into Tiferet was associated with certain specific symbols. These included a hermit or guide or wise old man, a majestic king, a child, a sacrificed god. In time other symbols were added as well — a truncated pyramid, for example, a cube and a rose cross. The relation of these symbols to the romances is sufficiently apparent. In every Grail narrative there is a wise old hermit — Perceval's or Parzival's uncle frequently — who acts as a spiritual guide. In Wolfram's poem the Grail as "stone" may possibly correspond to the cube.

The Cathars

Cathars being expelled from Carcassone, France (13th Century painting)

In a Wolfram poem, Perceval is the father of Lohengrin, the Knight Swan. One day, in his castle Munsalvaesche, the famous Montsegur fortress of the Cathars, he hears a bell toll as a signal to come to the aid of a damsel in distress. According to some sources, she was the duchess of Bouillon, whom Lohengrin hastened to her rescue in a boat drawn by swans. Having defeated her persecutor, he married the lady, though, requiring of her that she not question about his ancestry. At last, wrought with curiosity, she broke the vow, at which point Lohengrin was forced to leave. Behind him, though, he left her with a child, according to various accounts, that was either father or grandfather of Godfroi de Bouillon, leader of the first Crusade.

In 1209 the Catholic Church initiated the Abligensian Crusade, to extirpate the Cathar sect from the Languedoc. Final defeat came upon the Cathars at their famous stronghold of Montsegur in the foothills of the Pyrennees in 1244.

depiction of Baphomet, according to sorcerer Eliphas Levi

Following similar accusations, the Templars were arrested and tried for heresy in 1307. The Templars were charged of worshipping an idol named Baphomet, along with accusations similar to those assailed against witches: urinating on the cross, ritual murder of children, worshipping the devil in the shape of a black cat and committing acts of sodomy and bestiality. Baphomet was merely a continuation of the ancient dying-god of the mysteries, Baal of the Phoenicians, or Pan of the Greeks, and god of the Underworld, who equated with the planet Venus, whose original Latin name was Lucifer.

Though the order was disbanded, and its leader Jacques de Molay executed, legend has it that a number of knights escaped to Scotland, where they became protectors of a bloodline affiliated to the Merovingians, the Stuarts, supposed descendants of King Arthur.


http://www.thedyinggod.com/holygrail.html

[uroko]

So uroko,

What do you think of "millenialism" today? Is there a Second coming of some sort? Will "God" ever rule the world again?

I'm not religious.  That doesn't mean people don't latch on to these ideas, both people trying to control everything and others who would fight them.  "John", who I highly respect, takes that stuff very seriously however.  
http://www.tribwatch.com/ladon.htm
http://www.tribwatch.com/

Lots of useful material above, thanks, I read most of it.   The first bit was in some respects very informative (I hadn't ever looked into Dubrawka of Bomehia (she married Mieszko  I Piast Duke of Poland - I looked this up and immediately saw that (1) their son Boleslaw I King of Poland marries Judith Arpad and (2) that their granddaughter Agatha of Poland is one of the possible mothers of Margaret Queen of Scotland, a great mystery).   However, there's some mistakes in there too.  Some pretty big ones.  The book excerpt about the Merovingians states:  

"...A particular woman was important in this nexus, named Dubrawka of Bomehia, through whom these various bloodlines coalesced, to produce the important occult families of Western Europe.   From her descendants emerged the important union between this Khazar heritage, and the emerging bloodlines of Western Europe, the most important of which was that of the Merovingians, originally from Scythia..."    That sentence gives one the impression that the Merovingian line sprang from Dubrawka of Bomehia's union with the Prince of Poland.  That would be quite a feat, 'cause the Merovingians ruled from the 5th - 7th centuries, while Dubrawka lived in the 10th century.  

"...into the Merovingian dynasty there was also introduced the line of Rabbi Makhir..."   Well, sort of.  Another time-frame problem.  Makhir, if Guillaume of Gellone and Bertha of Autun were really his descendents, introduced his blood into the Caronlingian line.   He came to France several generations after the Merovingian line of kings had ended.  Charlemagne and his descendents might have had a bit of Merovingian blood in them (through Bertrada "Broadfoot") but they were Carolingians.  

"...Dubrawka married Mieszko I King of Poland. Their daughter married Geza Arpad, King of Hungary, and leader of the Magyars who also claimed descent from the Scythia."   Nope, their daughter was Gunhild, who married Sven II and Harald III of Denmark/Norway - Gunhild's son was Canute.  Geza Arpad on the other hand married Sophia von Looz ... and besides, any daughter of Dubrawka would have been a very old woman when Geza Arpad was born.

"...Edward the Exile was secretly sent to Kiev, and then made his way to Hungary. In Hungary, Edward the Exile married Agatha of Bulgaria, the daughter of Gavril Radomir of Bulgaria. Agatha's mother was the grand-daughter of Mieszko I and Dubrawka...."   We don't know that.  I've been up and down and all over Agatha's identity, and there are simply several theories.

So, 'Surrendering Islam' as a source gets a low grade for being peppered with mistakes.  Probably the author didn't really understand his subject and just collected alot of info, some of it bogus, and got a bit mixed up.   Everything else I've read above so far is more up to snuff - thanx for the info.   :up:

[uroko]

"...into the Merovingian dynasty there was also introduced the line of Rabbi Makhir..."   Well, sort of.  Another time-frame problem.  Makhir, if Guillaume of Gellone and Bertha of Autun were really his descendents, introduced his blood into the Caronlingian line...

That really needs to be clarified.  IF Guillaume of Gellone and Bertha of Autun were the son and daughter of Rabbi Makhir, and that is controversial (though I buy into it), then his blood essentially MIXED with the blood of the Carolingians (he had a Carolingian wife) and bled into the major noble houses of France: Lusignan, Anjou, Aquitaine, Toulouse and Brittany.  These houses in turn intermarried with the Carolingians and the Norman line of Sinclair (the English throne).   I feel I did a fairly decent job of sorting through all this stuff about Makhir, the Merovingians and the Carolingians in my post about the Franks.  

http://urokomovie.com/franks.shtml

Hopefully I can finish and upload my post about the Coat of Vlad soon - I've been working on it for quite a while now, but it's tricky and I just don't feel like I have a grasp on it yet.   I share "John's" belief that the family of Vlad are somehow connected to Vladimir I, and the family coat of arms of Vlad is a single large hexogram (6 pointed star) - and, it's blue and white like the arms of Rangabe/Melissena and the Israeli flag. The coat obviously long predates the use of the symbol as a Jewish symbol.  Now that I have come to the realization of the huge role that Vladimir and his family played in spreading Hun, Varangian and Khazar blood throughout the houses of Europe, I am certain that this is a key point.    I just can't quite put my finger on it - hence my inability to finish the post.    Heck, it might take me a month.  

I'm also trying to fix a few things in 'Uroko' - I'm redoing the little bit about Roger I and the skull and bones.   I learned (too late) that what he found at the grave (in the legend) was the skull moved to below the pelvis above the femur bones crossed.   Many Templars, it seems, have been buried with their femur bones crossed like this. (Looking for confirmation.)  The cool thing about it is the obvious presence of the "rebirth" theme, which ties the Templar myth to the Chi-Rho.  (I mention it because it's so interesting IMO.)

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

Nice commentary uroko and eyes on this! Your knowledge of Heraldry is impressive.

I know that when looking at Bloodlines and Heraldry, the overlapping of 40-70 year "layers" with descendants upon descendants within the same geographical locations, requires careful study. I bet this could be databased though and aggregated for errors and spurious claims of "overlaps".

 I know several of the sources above cross hundreds of years which makes a definitive analysis or "line" nearly impossible, or it requires years of study and access to source documents.  In regards to this, I'm curious about Septimania as an ancient "Jewish"-Gothic province in Langudoc, Franc -- and if the Merovingians propagated a form of Kabballah that got reinforced by Cathar Templars and Islamic mystics who themselves carried a few Kabbalah-Mithraic traditions. Do you think Septimania as Jewish that started several "bloodines" is legitimate?  I know that is highly speculative.  

The "Royal Bloodline" hoax or story via Zuckerman's Makhir gives the impression that a "Davidic" line from Babylon continued in Europe and among European Royals after "royalty" emerged from the kings of the tribes of post-collapse Roman territories.  Might be just Jewish Chutzpah with nothing behind it since documents from that period are very rare and a lot claims can be made without challenges.  

BTW, I did find the Tarot as an interesting connection between Kabbalah and Islamic mysticism.  Sorry to drag this all over the map and over the years.

You might find this article in the Meroviginian section worth a view as well. It mentions some of the same cast of characters in your very interesting Video on the NWO.

Cheers,

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=8414&p=32241&hilit=Septimania#p32241

[uroko]

I look at it like this - the Vikings, Huns, Franks, Bagratid rulers of Armenia and probably Khazars as well all share a history in the Levant - in the northern Levant, between Mt. Hermon or Mt. Hazzi, both centers of pagan worship.   This is from where the cults of Troad and Greece originated.   They burned babies, they got drunk and had wild orgies and their priests whacked off their genitals (not proven in the case of the above but known to have been practiced my Kybele cults in Rome) in homage to Attis - I learned that there is some sort of wicker-man Magog thing they do in the City of London - sorry, I can't remember.  The CFR logo is actually (I am almost certain) Sabazios, the cult of Saba-Zios being the Trojan incarnation of Cybele merged with Zeus.  Then you have what goes on at the Bohemian Grove.  I mean, these elite are so obviously evil pricks who trace their ancestry (whether legitimately or not) to these pagan peoples and cults and are proud of it.    

And they want the holy land - the Levant, the homeland of their supposed ancestors.  They want to take it back from the Muslims.  How do you do that?  It's not easy, retaking an entire region of the world.   It might take hundreds of years, you might have to generate interest in, say, a vaguely related religion (Judaism) returning to their homeland, and hijack that religion. You might have to  invest in someone like Hitler and let him kill a bunch of them to garner sympathy for a homeland for those people and try and get some of them to move to the desert.   You might have to start a war on terror to justify all out war on Muslims in general.  But, if one is patient and incredibly cold and rotten in their heart, its doable.

We're seeing it happen in slow motion (real time).  

I wanta know why.   What's really going on?  Who are these people?  Why do they want to take over ancient Mesopotamia?  What lies have we been fed?   I'm just an average guy with an average IQ, but I don't take anything for granted.

[uroko]

Oh, I forgot to respond about the Tarot.  Incredibly interesting.

I talked around this in a post here -

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/inde ... p=10749906

The four winds/directions/elements/suits relate to the way the crosses of many banners are constructed - one large cross divides the flag into four quadrants - the first cross being the "fifth element".  Just like the dragon is the "13th constellation".   It rules the others and is part of the whole, but has its own identity - hence the obsession in western culture with the numbers 12 and (the "darker") 13.  Watch the Fifth Element - the supreme (female) being, the latent messages, watch when she stops the evil at the end, when the 4 elements and herself unite and generate the "killer light-ray", you can see the Celtic cross for just a few frames.  

Then (earlier) "Zorg" does his speech about "Order out of Chaos".  

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/inde ... p=10749781

The tricky part is, how did these messages find their way into this movie?  Is Luc Besson one of "them"?

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

The only thing uroko,
is that I can't see how this Cult of Sabazios was transmitted through the centuries. The Kabballah, yes, which is Babylonian Jewish, was passed over the centuries and spread both orally and in print. It was also had ceremonial usage via Rabbis.  

I don't see this with the Sabazios. From what I found here, it appears the Romans actually prohibited the religion at one point. I figure it was subsumed into any of the numerous "Eastern Mystery cults" of the Roman age as they took over the Grecian world. Basically, I don't see it on the same path of propagation through the centuries as the Kabballah or the Council of Nicea's Latin-Greek Bible.

Sabazios

Transformation to Sabazius

Transference of Sabazios to the Roman world appears to have been mediated in large part through Pergamum.[7] The naturally syncretic approach of Greek religion blurred distinctions. Later Greek writers, like Strabo in the first century AD, linked Sabazios with Zagreus, among Phrygian ministers and attendants of the sacred rites of Rhea and Dionysos.[8] Strabo's Sicilian contemporary, Diodorus Siculus, conflated Sabazios with the secret 'second' Dionysus, born of Zeus and Persephone,[9] a connection that is not borne out by surviving inscriptions, which are entirely to Zeus Sabazios.[10] The Christian Clement of Alexandria had been informed that the secret mysteries of Sabazius, as practiced among the Romans, involved a serpent, a chthonic creature unconnected with the mounted skygod of Phrygia: "'God in the bosom' is a countersign of the mysteries of Sabazius to the adepts". Clement reports: "This is a snake, passed through the bosom of the initiates".[11]

Much later, the Greek encyclopedia, Sudas (10th century?), flatly states

    "Sabazios... is the same as Dionysos. He acquired this form of address from the rite pertaining to him; for the barbarians call the bacchic cry 'sabazein'. Hence some of the Greeks too follow suit and call the cry 'sabasmos'; thereby Dionysos [becomes] Sabazios. They also used to call 'saboi' those places that had been dedicated to him and his Bacchantes... Demosthenes [in the speech] 'On Behalf of Ktesiphon' [mentions them]. Some say that Saboi is the term for those who are dedicated to Sabazios, that is to Dionysos, just as those [dedicated] to Bakkhos [are] Bakkhoi. They say that Sabazios and Dionysos are the same. Thus some also say that the Greeks call the Bakkhoi Saboi."[12]

In Roman sites, though not a single temple consecrated to Sabazius, the rider god of the open air, has been located,[13] small votive hands, typically made of copper or bronze, are often associated with the cult of Sabazios. Many of these hands have a small perforation at the base which suggests they may have been attached to wooden poles and carried in processions. The symbolism of these objects is not well known.[14]
[edit] Jewish connection

The first Jews who settled in Rome were expelled in 139 BCE, along with Chaldaean astrologers by Cornelius Hispalus under a law which proscribed the propagation of the "corrupting" cult of "Jupiter Sabazius," according to the epitome of a lost book of Valerius Maximus:

Cnaeus Cornelius Hispalus, praetor peregrinus in the year of the consulate of Marcus Popilius Laenas and Lucius Calpurnius, ordered the astrologers by an edict to leave Rome and Italy within ten days, since by a fallacious interpretation of the stars they perturbed fickle and silly minds, thereby making profit out of their lies. The same praetor compelled the Jews, who attempted to infect the Roman custom with the cult of Jupiter Sabazius, to return to their homes."[15]

By this it is conjectured that the Romans identified the Jewish Yahveh Sabaoth ("of the Hosts") as Sabazius.

This mistaken connection of Sabazios and Sabaoth has often been repeated. In a similar vein, Plutarch naively maintained that the Jews worshipped Dionysus, and that the day of Sabbath was a festival of Sabazius.[16] No modern reader would confuse Yahweh with Dionysus or Sabazius. Plutarch also discusses the identification of the Jewish god with the "Egyptian" (actually archaic Greek) Typhon, an identification which he later rejects, however. The monotheistic Hypsistarians worshipped the Jewish god under this name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabazios

[uroko]

Sorry, the Cult of Sabazios is WAY IMPORTANT.   It was the first Cult to establish the rings-within-rings format that Rhodes adopted. It inspired the architecture of Freemasonry.  It's why the CFR logo shows Sabazios.  Sabazios was the world's first "mystery religion", priests at the center in possession of secret knowlege, an inner circle into which only invited initiates can enter and learn the secrets.  That is the model with which our elite rule the world, and it started with the Cult of Sabazios - that's why the CFR logo displays the same.   Look at his (the naked CFR guy's) hand - thumb and 1st two fingers outstretched, last two fingers retracted.  That's the hand of Sabazios - many bronze examples have been dug up - some in Ugarit!!  

No, sorry, the cult of Sabazios it central.  Yeah, the Romans tried to ignore it, they eventually permitted it, but they are NOT central to the history of the current elite.   The CURRENT ruling elite are not descended from Romans - nor Greeks (most of them) ... they are descended from Trojans.

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

All I can say is that I don't see the CFR using "horse and snakes" themes in their works. Overall, I just don't see this "theme" throughout the "ages" if you know what I mean. It just stopped in the Roman era. The Babylonian Talmud seems to continue however... even to the present day with a large number of tracts referencing it.  I don't see a religious "Work" that continues the tradition of the Sabazios...I'm just pointing out what I obviously see:

"
Sabazios is the nomadic horseman and sky father god of the Phrygians and Thracians. In Indo-European languages, such as Phrygian, the '-zios' element in his name derives from dyeus, the common precursor of 'deus' (god) and Zeus. Though the Greeks interpreted Phrygian Sabazios[1] with both Zeus and Dionysus,[2] representations of him, even into Roman times, show him always on horseback, as a nomadic horseman god, wielding his characteristic staff of power.
"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabazios

[uroko]

Some may not be convinced, but Sabazios is, I sincerely believe, the horseman on the CFR logo - placed there in homage.  That's not one of the four horsman of the apocalypse as most claim.   Sabazios is allegedly the inspiration for St. George the dragon slayer.   His cult was officially the first "mystery religion" and was the result of the merging of the Greek pantheon and the Trojan Cult of Kybele/Cybele -  Saba = Kybele.  

The following is from John's chapter 'Sheba conquors Kybele'.  It's a difficult read, but chock full of stuff with mind bending ramifications.   While reading realize that the latin name for horse is Caballo/Cavallo, very close to Kabbalah.  The horse was first domesticated in modern Iran, in an area of ancient Elam called Kerman - Kerman is very close to Herman, Hermes etc., Mt. Herman being Mt. Sion in Syria, the gate through which the fallen angels fell.  Kerman on the other hand is a prime candidate for Aratta, the unidentified land of riches which was the original home of the goddess Innana...  

It's interesting that Zagreus was cut into pieces with a knife by Titans (Dedanites?), this having the meaning that a single peoples was scattered in many directions so as to make many branches (and such were the Apiru as per historical documents, clinging to various peoples/rulers wherever they found acceptance). And so I went to a website explaining Zagreus, and when I came across the phrase written by Strabo, "...Aeskhines' mother and Aeskhines himself...", my mind focused in because I had been looking for such a term to describe the Ashkenazi Hebrews of Iran, for it was in Iran that the Ashkenazi Aryans lived, and so I expected that the proto-Kabala Hebrews had mixed with them there. Ashkenaz was the literal brother of Togarmah, and they were literal sons of Gomer (Genesis 10:3), for we can't compare the literal approach of the Bible to the non-literal approach of mythology.

I also noticed the spelling of "Aeskhines," starting with "Aes" as it does, and wondered if the Aesir pantheon of Scandinavia wasn't from this very Hebrew-Aryan mix. I was about to be proven correct within minutes, for immediately afterward, in the same Strabo sentence, there was this that caught my eye : "...when [Aeskhines' mother] conducted initiations, that [Aeskhines] joined her in leading the Dionysiac march, and that many a time he cried out 'evoe saboe,' and 'hyes attes, attes hyes'; for these words are in the ritual of Sabazios [Zagreos] and the Mother... - Strabo, Geography 10.3.18" (Zagreos brackets not mine).

http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/Zagreus.html

I stared at that cry. What did it mean. I went searching online to find the meaning because it wasn't given in the article. I couldn't find the translation. But as I stared at the phrase, knowing that "attes" was Attis, it hit me like a ton of bullion that "saboe" was Kybele! And when I saw that Zagreus was the same as Sabazios, it was like when a man searches for pecans under a pecan tree, months after harvest when nuts are scarce, and when he sees one and stoops to pick it up, he looks forward and sees two more, and as he picks them up he looks slightly to the side and sees four more. Then he looks up and sees that he is directly under a pay-load branch that had held its fruit for an extra-ordinary span of time.

For my new project, terms like "Saboe" and "Sabazios" were golden, for they are easily discernible as Sheba terms. Kybele was Sheba, or so I thought at first. In reading on, I realized that the Kybele cult was instead taken over by Sheba Hebrews. However, this does not exclude the possibility that the Kybele cult had itself been founded by an earlier wave of Shebeans into Phrygia, though Dedanites (from northern Syria/Asshur) may have been superior at first.

I went immediately to an article on Sabazios, and learned that the term is to be likely understood as Saba-Zeus or Saba-Dios, and that the Romans viewed it as the cult of "Jupiter Sabazius." The website went on to point out that it was Jews in particular who were attached to Jupiter Sabazius. For example, Jews of Rome were expelled for propagating that cult. The website author shares that moderns do not know the reason that Romans singled out the Jews as pertaining to the cult. I also read the following at the same site: "Plutarch (''Symposium''. iv. 6) maintained that the Jews worshipped Dionysus, and that the day of Sabbath was a festival of Sabazius."
http://bvio.ngic.re.kr/Bvio/index.php/Sabazios

That's when it started to hit me: ancients knew that Kybele was a Hebrew entity. So why don't we have the same view today? Because, the Galli-Kabeiri cult contributed much to the blood of Gauls, Romans, Celts, Germanics, Russians, and others who didn't wish to know their Hebrew roots but instead emphasized the Aryan side of their Thracian/Phrygian blood.

But before learning the above near the end of the article, I learned what was near the start:
"Though the Greeks associated Phrygian Sabazios with Zeus, representations of him, even into Roman times, show him always on horseback, as a nomadic horseman god, wielding his characteristic staff of power."
Gosh, I realized i may have been correct in my deduction made earlier that evening, that Kabalists had been closely connected to the horse. In fact, the way in which the article went on the describe the horseman, it is fairly evident that it is referring to THE Horseman of Thrace, especially since the wife of Hephaistos, styled "Cabeiro," was said to be a Thracian. The Thracian Horseman is thought to be Ares, the (I think, Amazonian) dragon.

The article then connected the Sabazios horseman to the Macedonians, and that squared with my theory that Macedonians were Edoni, for my theory is that the peoples who founded the Kabeiri cult, from the Guti of Iran, became the Edoni/Getae of Thrace.

After the article revealed that Kybele was the Lunar Bull, it said, "Sabazios' relations with [Kybele] may be surmised in the way that his horse places a hoof on the head of the bull." That implies a take-over of the Kybele cult by Shebeans. But behold the following similar theme: "The iconic image of the god or hero on horseback battling the chthonic serpent, on which his horse tramples, appears on Celtic votive columns..." If I'm correct in interpreting the "chthon" term as the Cutha Hebrews from Chaldee, the statement would appear to depict the Kybele cult over-taken by the Shebean horseman.

The article goes on to show Sabazios ties to the Lydians and their kin, and so here we are again at the root of the Etruscans (to be read as "of the Ruski") who founded the Redones, but also at the root of their "brothers," the Latins. That is, Sheba is that root. I knew I was in for a shocker when I was first Made Aware (i.e. from Above) that Nahor had something to do with the dragon line, but for all of western Europe to be from the loins of Abraham, it put a whole new perspective on God's "many nations" prophecy. Something tells me that Eastern Europe, known throughout the ages as Byzantium, is predominantly from Buz, son of Nahor (brother of Abraham). Zowie, if this doesn't send a shiver down your spine, just to think of it. In support of the Nahorite Buzi becoming eastern Europe, the historical Neuri, who lived with the Boudini, are thought to have formed the Slavs!

And so I now have a huge area, that of Dionysus, to explore for key words linking back to Iranian/Akkadian Hebrews, for: "Much later, the Greek encyclopedia Sudas (10th Century CE?) flatly states 'Sabazios...is the same as Dionysos. He acquired this form of address from the rite pertaining to him; for the barbarians call the bacchic cry 'sabazein.' Hence some of the Greeks too follow suit and call the cry 'sabasmos'; thereby Dionysos [becomes] Sabazios" (dots and brackets not mine).

http://www.tribwatch.com/sheba.htm

[uroko]

Its also worth mentioning that Sabazios was likely the main inspiration for St. George the dragon slayer, a legend most associated with the Caucasus (and from whom Georgia gets its name) - though George's alleged birthplace was Lydda in the Levant.   Lydda???   Evokes Lydia - near Troy where Mt. Ida, the home of Kybele and where Dardanus allegedly settled - as well as Leto, mother of Apollo and Artemis.  Leto has been compared with the "Great Mother" by her throne and spindle (Pindar), and Apollo and Artemis are closely tied to the "wolf" peoples of the Black Sea (Hyperborea?), i.e. the Thracians and Phrygians.  I try not to reference wikipedia too often, but this is enlightening (article on Leto):

When Hera, the most conservative of goddesses — for she had the most to lose in changes to the order of nature —[17] discovered that Leto was pregnant and that Zeus was the father, she realized that the offspring would cement the new order. She was powerless to stop the flow of events. "Latona for her intrigue with Zeus was hunted by Hera over the whole earth, till she came to Delos and brought forth first Artemis, by the help of whose midwifery she afterwards gave birth to Apollo."[18] Hera banned Leto from giving birth on "terra firma", the mainland, any island at sea, or any place under the sun[19]. Antoninus Liberalis is not alone in hinting that Leto came down from the land of the Hyperboreans in the guise of a she-wolf, or that she sought out the "wolf-country" of Lycia, formerly called Tremilis, which she renamed to honour wolves that had befriended her[20] for her denning. Another late source, Aelian, also links Leto with wolves and Hyperboreans...

So here's how I read that - Leto coming down from "Hyperborea" (future Troad), mating with Zeus and, over the protestations of Hera giving birth to Apollo and Artemis (gods of the wolf/boar peoples of Anatolia and Thrace) simply parallels the merging of the Cult of Kybele with the Greek pantheon,  giving rise to the hybrid Cult of Saba-zios.   This would have been the religion of the future leaders of the tribes which became the Vikings and Franks.  Can it be mere coincidence that the Council on Foreign Relations mimicks the ancient Sabazios cult with its inner circle of elites while their logo displays what appears to be Sabazios the horseman?

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The CURRENT ruling elite are not descended from Romans - nor Greeks (most of them) ... they are descended from Trojans.

Well, if you define the Trojan Elites then we are really talking about the Phoenician Elites (punics : p*n*cs :synonym: phoenicians : P*n*c*s = pncs ).

- All of this have/had a hidden touch of symbolics cosmographics logical issues related to it -

Take i e the Name Europa

Europa (Greek Εὐρώπη) was a Phoenician woman of high lineage in Greek mythology, from whom the name of the continent Europe has ultimately been taken.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_(mythology)



Go through all the Greek Mythology and you'll discover the hidden hand of the canaani magi bloodlines

The same as well with the Trojan War



Technically, we aren't sure if the Trojan War really happened.

According to Herodotus, who is the closest thing we have to a 'historian' of ancient greece, the war started over bride-stealing. Herodotus claims to have been told this by the Persians, who had better records, because they had writing longer before the Greeks developed it. So he tells the Persian view of the Trojan side of the war.
Still, none of those records have actually survived to the present day, so we really don't know.

Bride-stealing was pretty common at the time. Ships would go raiding and take back booty and slave, including women. But it was usually lower class women.

However, at some point it escalated to tit-for-tat stealing of noble women. Supposedly the Phoenicians started it by stealing Io - who was a Greek princess. The Greeks have a whole myth about Io being turned into a cow and taken to Egypt, but according to Herodotus, the Persians claim she was actually kidnapped by Phoenician traders and ended up as a slave in Egypt.



The Greeks then retaliated by stealing Europa, who was a Phoenician woman of high lineage. There's a mythological version of her story as well.



Then the Greeks stole Medea - a princess of Colchis. In the myth Medea goes with Jason voluntarily, but (according to Herotodus) the Persians say that the Colcians considered it a kidnapping, so the Greeks were regarded as having taken disproportiate revenge.



Then Paris (Alexandros) of Troy stole Helen in revenge for Medea. But Helen was not just a noble woman, she was married to the King of Sparta. Which was two steps too far - stealing not just a noble woman, but a married one, and the Queen of Sparta at that. So the Greeks all banded together to get her back and take revenge for her being stolen.



Herodotus' account of the Persian's version also says that Io went voluntarily (supposedly because she was havign an affair with the ships' captain) and that Helen actually was detained in Egypt on the way back to Troy (supposedly because the Egyptians were appalled by what Paris had done). So they argue that the war was unjustified from the Trojan's perspective, since there wasn't any reason to get revenge for Io and Helen was never at Troy anyway. You can take that or leave it.

Source(s):
Herodotus, The Histories

What is the true reason of Trojan War? (Link to the above short good resume)
http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:MkYgexoKWtkJ:answers.yahoo.com/question/index%3Fqid%3D20090301215148AAV0Oq1+Troja+phoenicia&cd=18&hl=en&ct=clnk

I was posting earlier this morning about the canaani phoenicians here :

viewtopic.php?f=38&p=41202#p41202


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Oh, I forgot to respond about the Tarot.  Incredibly interesting.

Please, forget about the traditional Tarot for a while http://www.australianparanormalsociety.com/news/wp-content/uploads/bodettarot.jpg

The traditional Tarot  was created to do on purpose the deploying of the Imperial Arts of Superstition, Fantasy and Deception among the slaves. The real Tarot (Tarocchi of Mantegna) was a  intend  to introduce, to brought, year 1465 AD, in Symbolic form, the vital learnings from Antiquity in respect of liberal Arts & Sciences. The Liberal Arts denoted the education proper to a free man (Latin: liberus, "free"), unlike the education proper to a slave.

Bottom Line The Mantegna Tarot was the real Mccoy. The other one is the false one, created in order to destroy the real one.

The (Kabbalah) Tarot was created by the Kabbalistic gatekeepers to usurpate the role of the Real Tarot (Tarocchi of Mantegna) wich Cards were representing (Among other archetypes like the Seven Virtues etc ) the Real knowledge of Antiquity (Trivium=->Gramma->Dialectic->Rethoric ; Quadrivium=Geometry->Arithmetic->Music->Astronomy). They almost succeeded doing that. Just very few people now know of the real Tarot (Tarocchi of Mantegna) and of the importance of the knowledge encapsulated in those very precious cards.



Why was it necessary to usurp/hide the knowledge reflected in those Cards ? Because the strugle against the Empire always has/had been a war happening in the world of Ideas, The Seven liberal Arts (a freeman's education)  create a Rational Critical Thinking Human Being, that is the opposite of what the Empire want to create: a Person/Slave guided by superstition, not based on reason, knowledge, or experience = Rule by Deception.

Tarocchi of Mantegna - The Tarot Of Mantegna :

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/mantegna.html

In Short

ABOUT THE LIBERAL ARTS & SCIENCES

the seven liberal arts and sciences


Hi Resolution Image
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... m_1180.jpg

Based on the types of studies that were pursued in the Classical world, the Seven Liberal Arts became codified in late antiquity by such writers as Varro and Martianus Capella. In medieval times, the Seven Liberal Arts offered a canonical way of depicting the realms of higher learning.



http://www.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine/winter2009/images/features/photoessay/03-libarts.jpg



The Liberal Arts were divided into the Trivium ("the three roads") and the Quadrivium ("the four roads").

The Trivium consisted of:

Grammar
Rhetoric
Logic

 
The Quadrivium consisted of:

Arithmetic -- Number in itself
Geometry -- Number in space
Music, Harmonics, or Tuning Theory -- Number in time
Astronomy or Cosmology -- Number in space and time



 
The medival Quadrivium thus followed the division of mathematics made by the Pythagoreans. Recently, mathematics has been defined as "the study of patterns in space and time," which very much resembles the ancient Pythagorean understanding of mathematics.




http://www.oldenwilde.org/oldenwilde/members/diu/quadriv.html

It has become almost universally accepted as the received wisdom of the Western esoteric tradition that the tarot card images embody a system derived from the Jewish Kabbalah. This view seems to derive from the mid-nineteenth century French Occult revival, and particularly was promulgated by Eliphas Levi and later incorporated through Westcott, Mathers and Waite in the teachings of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn from which our twentieth century tradition of occultism has been derived.
I would, however, like us to pause and consider for a moment, before we return to the established view, the implications of the regrettably neglected early tarot pack, the Tarocchi of Mantegna. This is one of the earliest known tarot or Tarocchi packs, being dated to c.1465, contemporary with the Visconti-Sforza deck of the mid-fifteenth century which is recognised as the earliest tarot. (Some authorities suggest that the Tarocchi of Mantegna may be earlier than the Visconti-Sforza.)
Little is known of the Tarocchi of Mantegna and what we do know entirely contradicts it name. Most scholars are of the opinion that this Tarocchi has been wrongly attributed to Andreas Mantegna (1431-1506) the painter and printmaker of the School of Padua, and rather are to be seen as emanating from the School of Ferrara. They are not a 'Tarocchi' pack in the true sense of that technical term, and they are not cards but a set of prints. Kenneth Clark, the well known art historian of the Renaissance, attributes them to a Parrasio Michele, Master of the School of Ferrara. They consist of a set of 50 finely executed engravings divided into five decades, which could be characterised as:-

1 The archetypal social stations of humanity;
2 The nine Muses and Apollo;
3 The Liberal Arts;
4 The Cardinal Virtues;
5 The Heavenly Spheres.

The symbolism of these cards, or perhaps we should say 'emblematic figures', would seem to derive from the Hermetic tradition which is now recognised as underlying the Italian Renaissance of the mid-fifteenth century. It was during this period that the Platonic Academies of the Medici's were set up and Ficino and other scholars began translating texts such as the Corpus Hermeticum and the works of Plato, some of which were brought to the Court of Florence from Constantinople by Gemistus Plethon (c.1355-1450), a Greek scholar who was probably an initiate of a 'Platonic' Mystery School in the East. This reconstruction of hermetic and neoplatonic esotericism is reflected in such ideas as the Muses, the Liberal Arts, the Cardinal Virtues, and the Heavenly Spheres, and it is my view that the Tarocchi of Mantegna should be seen as an 'emblem book' of this hermetic current. The fact that its designs show parallels with the later tarot decks should therefore be of the greatest interest both to students of tarot and of Hermeticism.



There is in this sequence both a reflection of the social conditions of humankind and also the stages of an inner development, from the lowly 'beggar' state of soul, to the fully spiritualised 'Pope' facet of the soul.
Interestingly, these fit well onto the tree of life diagram corresponding to the sephiroth quite tightly, but can also equally well be tied symbolically to the Pythagorean 'Tetractys' or pyramid.





The second decade consists of images of the nine muses and Apollo. These muses preside over certain arts and instruments of these arts.

Calliope    'Beautiful voiced'     epic poetry          Trumpet
                                   and eloquence        stylus

Urania      'Heavenly'             astrology            compass and
                                                        celestial globe

Terpsichore 'she who loves         lyric poetry         lyre or cithera
            dancing'               and dance

Erato       'arouser of desire'    erotic or            tambourine
                                   love poetry

Polihymnia  'many hymns'           heroic hymns         lyre or
                                   mimic art            portative organ

Thelia      'the festive'          comedy and           violin
                                   pastoral poetry      mask of comedy

Melpomene   'the singer'           tragedy              horn
                                                        mask of tragedy

Euterpe     'giver of joy'         music and            double flute
                                   lyric poetry

Clio        'giver of fame'        history              scroll

Apollo

This group represents the archetypal sources of creative inspiration for the soul, and these muses work in the realm of the imagination. The soul can draw upon these ten different inner spiritual resources for its inspiration and transmutation.



The third group consist of the Seven Liberal Arts with the addition of Poetry, Philosophy and Theology to bring the number up to ten. The Liberal Arts lay at the basis of scholasticism and consist of the Trivium of Grammar, Rhetoric and Dialectic, which trained the mind in the use of language, and the Quadrivium of Geometry, Arithmetic, Music and Astronomy, which four constituted the domain of medieval science. Each of these bear a symbol

Grammar       File and Vase
Logic         Veiled Dragon
Rhetoric      Sword
Geometry      Circle, Square, Triangle
Arithmetic    Coins or counters
Music         Flute
Poetry        Flute and a Vase
Philosophy    Arrow and Shield (Athene figure)
Astrology     Sphere of Stars and pointer (Angelic figure)
Theology      Sphere of Heaven and Earth (Androgyne figure)

This group are the archetypes that work behind human thinking.



The fourth decade consist of the seven Cardinal Virtues appearing as female figures together with three Spirits (or Genius') of Life (or the Sun), Time and the Cosmos, these being shown as male Angels, each carrying a symbol. The seven Cardinal Virtues also have animal figures beside them.

Iliaco       Sun disc
Chronico     Ouroboros Dragon
Cosmico      Heavenly Globe
Temperance   Two vases                 Dog, Cat, weasel, or stoat/ermine
Prudence     Mirror                    Dragon
Strength     Sceptre                   Lion
Justice      Sword and scales          Crane
Charity      Wallet, offering charity  Pelican
Hope         in attitude of prayer     phoenix
Faith        Chalice and Host          Dog

These represent that which works in the higher soul of humanity as the virtues dwelling in the conscience. As the aspiring soul develops towards inward perfection, rising to an awareness of the spiritual genius behind the life force (the Sun), Time and Space, then there will inwardly develop from the seed of conscience rooted in the soul, the Virtues, which will unfold and grow from within to express themselves in ones outer actions.



The final decanate is that of the heavenly spheres - the seven planets and the three higher spheres each having a symbol.

Luna           Moon disc
Mercury        Flute Caduceus with two
               intertwined dragons     Cock
Venus          Seashell                Ducks
Sun            Sun disc                Scorpion Crabs
Mars           Sword                   Dogs (hunting)
Jupiter        Arrow (thunderbolt)     Eagle
Saturn         Scythe                  Ouroboros
Eighth Sphere  Starry Disc
Prime Mover    Empty Sphere
First Cause    Cosmos

This represents the highest spiritual principles working as the planetary forces behind all the aspects of the world.

To summarise:-
The First Decade    Stations of       Archetypal powers in the outer
                    Humanity          world of humanity externalised in
                                      social forms
The Second Decade   Muses             Archetypal powers of in the imagination
                                      of humanity, expressing themselves
                                      in artistic creation
The Third Decade    Liberal Arts      Archetypal powers in human thinking
                                      expressing themselves in the patterns
                                      of human thought
The Fourth Decade   Cardinal Virtues  Archetypal patterns in the conscience
                                      of humanity expressing themselves in
                                      the inner development and spiritual
                                      refinement of the soul
The Fifth Decade    Cosmic Spheres    Archetypal patterns in the Cosmic
                                      order expressing themselves in all
                                      facets of the universe

So we have here the cosmic spheres of the fifth decade representing the Macrocosm and the first decade being a kind of reflection of this in the Microcosm, while between these two polarities are found the Muses, Liberal Arts and Cardinal Virtues, the channels through which the soul experiences the archetypal powers lying behind its feeling, thinking and willing, and can thereby develop its imaginative, intellectual and spiritual gifts. This reflects the Renaissance ideal propounded in the Neoplatonic academies which inspired artists, writers and musicians, and brought great works of the creative human spirit into being which transformed the outer restrictive social forms of the medieval period and gave a new impulse of freedom to the spiritual seeking of humanity.
So it should be obvious that these cards and their symbolism arise out of a Neoplatonic and hermetic current, but they should not be seen as entirely limited symbolically to this period or set of ideas. For this very early Tarocchi of Mantegna designs, through reflecting this hermetic system of ideas also may have provided the archetypal forms for some of the later and more familiar tarot packs. We note certain obvious parallels.

Mantegna           Modern tarot       Mantegna         Modern tarot

1 BEGGAR           FOOL               36 FORTEZA       STRENGTH
3 ARTISAN          MAGUS              37 IUSTICIA      JUSTICE
B KING             HIEROPHANT         43 VENUS         THE LOVERS
9 EMPEROR          EMPEROR            44 THE SUN       THE SUN
10 POPE            PRIESTESS          45 MARTE         THE CHARIOT  
(N.B.the Pope here                    46 JUPITER       THE WORLD
appears female)                       47 SATURNO       DEATH
27 POESIO          THE STAR
34 TEMPERANCE      TEMPERANCE

So could it not be that our present day tarot cards should perhaps be seen as arising out of the hermetic ideas at the foundation of the Renaissance, rather then from the Jewish Kaballah? I believe this view requires, indeed demands, some attention, even though it might upset the established and ingrained ideas of twentieth century occultism.

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/mantegna.html

Seven liberal arts. There is no division on trivium and quadrivium. The first page. Above at the left the Grammar punishes the pupil before the whole class (four pupils seem to amuse oneself with the scene). On the right the astronomy is represented as the astronomer, who looks at skies (at the Moon, the Sun and stars) to do his recordings. Below Arithmetics with an abacus and Geometry with a compasses:




Seven liberal arts. There is no division on trivium and quadrivium. The second page. In the top part Music plays on two musical instruments, her left hand is touching the keyboard (helped by the boy) and her right hand rings a bell. Below at the left the Logic learns one student, and on the right Rhetoric, folded her legs, two students:



The Lost Tools of Learning

http://www.gbt.org/text/sayers.html


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_arts

The Seven Virtues



http://www.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine/winter2009/images/features/photoessay/07-7virtues.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_arts

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[uroko]

Pretty interesting stuff.   I recommend watching the Golden Compass, or reading 'His Dark Materials' from where it came.  I don't know much about the author Phillip Pullman, but he is a 'humanist, doctorate holder from Oxford, and a member of the National Secular Society', and I suspect he knows far more about the hidden cults of history than he lets on.   Notice the 'good-guy' tribe in the Golden Compass are called 'Gyptians'.  The armored bears of the north are another curious them - 'bear' is an animal in the 'bower' class, that is an animal one kills with a bow and arrow and hence close phoenetically to boar and bow.  Bears are prevalent on the coats of Germanic houses (and Albert "the Bear" was an important figure).  Bears (Ursa major and Ursa minor) also guard the dragon in the night sky, and the whole 'north' thing evokes hyperboria.  Then you have the daemons, the battle against the church, the whole symbology of the thing is a fun romp in the world of 'kabbala oriented' "humanist" idealogy, to which every group connected to the dragon cult subscribe (Rosicrucianism, Masonry, etc.) and their collective battle with the Catholic Church since the days of the Merovingians.  In this context, the elite heirs of special knowlege and traditions which has grown out of the various illumini (for lack of a better word) related cults probably see themselves and their cause as just.   Pirates were ahead of their time from a governing standpoint, they were largly democratic, booty was fairly shared and captains were often voted in and voted out.  Many of the founding fathers were masons and certainly saw it as a force for good.  Every illuminatist and Templar who challenged and was crushed by the Catholic Church certainly saw their own cause as the just and enlightened one, while also believing in their own superiority.  

Things quickly got convoluted and confused, from our standpoint looking back at history the lines are blurred - The Catholic Church, a corrupt racket in its own right, has been infiltrated by illuminatists (starting with Innocent II who granted the Templars their special privileges, if memory serves) and made a turncoat to varying degrees throughout history. Also the ideals of humanism/illuminatism have been increasingly twisted. The life-giving properties of the dragon has been lost - you can still see them in China, where the dragon is one (male) aspect of a partnership which is the epitome of perfect balance in feng-shui, the nurturing female side being the phoenix.  In the west on the other hand the conquering cultures associated with the dragon-cults of the Near East have have always been war-driven, and by the time people like the Rothschilds and Cecil Rhodes had come along and risen to power these people had only one thing on their mind - complete control.   At least that's how I see things.

Hope I didn't veer too far away from the Tarot - don't know too much about that (other than the connections between the early Tarot and the Tuatha de Danaan), and I still haven't read all of the above.  Just some thoughts.

[uroko]

All I can say is that I don't see the CFR using "horse and snakes" themes in their works. Overall, I just don't see this "theme" throughout the "ages" if you know what I mean. It just stopped in the Roman era. The Babylonian Talmud seems to continue however... even to the present day with a large number of tracts referencing it.  I don't see a religious "Work" that continues the tradition of the Sabazios...I'm just pointing out what I obviously see:

I didn't really respond to this directly.   Firstly, I was a bit drunk at the time and I made those points you responded to a little too authoritatively - some people on forums I've been involved in are quite fond of my drunken posts LoL, but the world is grey and I was a little too matter-of-fact about some things.  

You mention the "horse and snakes", I would counter that St. George the dragon slayer does continue this theme, and also note that Georgia to this day is one of the most fervent supporters of Zionism in the world, and also that their flag is essentially the Crusader flag of Jerusalem.  You mention the Talmud and ask what comparable works extend from the Cult of Sabazios, I would counter that this cult was built on the Kabbalah from the Anatolian side and the Greek Myths on the Greek side - all of which are timeless, if reserved for a minority - which is what one would expect if the cult was based on secret knowledge withheld from its average-joe initiates.  

I'll definitely grant that the Cult of Sabazios was just a blip on the stage of world history - most people have never heard of it.   But in trying to answer my own questions, following links around the net  and reading all sorts of material, I kept running into talk of places like Samothrace, of links between Kabbala and Kybele, of links between Saba/Sabor/Sheba/Sheva names and, not just Kybele, but Sam names ... like Uncle Sam for example, quite an interesting little topic all its own.   I can't remember the details, but there are two urban-legend type explanations for how the US got its "Uncle Sam" characterization - both were written decades after the respective event, and each displays curious tell-tale signs that the stories were simply myth-writing.  In one, if I remember correctly, the anecdote takes place in a town of Troy, and the other revolves around a cavalry regiment of Dragoons.  Hint, dragoon is a wink-nudge reference to the dragon - I imagine the myth-writers have been laughing their @sses off for millenia, waving this stuff in our faces the whole time with only themselves being hip to the lingo.  I love the name 'Gepetto' given to Pinocchio's maker.  Clearly a reference to Japeth and Iapetus (which appear to be equivalent - yet another parallel between biblical figures and Greek figures, which races right back to what I've been saying about Zeus/Ida=Judah, Dardanus=Darda, and the notion that the dragon-elite which made our world split into two branches and parted ways in Egypt, one sub-branch going to Palestine while the other to Greece and on to Anatolia ... this all hinted at over and over in myths and ancient records...), Iapetus being the Greek father of Prometheus - who stole fire from the gods and gave it to man and stands at the ice rink in Rockefeller Center.   - And Pinocchio means pine-nut.   Whahh?  PINE???   Could be totally innocent - after all the puppet/child was made of wood.   But Attis, Kybele's consort was resurrected (one of the first clearly identifiable resurrection themes which many think influenced the narrative of Christ) into a PINE tree.  Now, I don't go nuts (no pun intended) everytime I hear about some figure being associated with the pine tree - but I do sit up when the pine-reference is part of a story about a puppet made by a guy named 'Gepetto' having life breathed into it.    

I'm getting off topic.   To put it simply, I feel like I'm accumulating enough references in my head to recognize things that are significant, maybe even read into various myths somewhat, and as I was getting deep into this stuff I ran across a discussion about the CFR logo, and everyone was convinced that the horseman was one of the four horsemen of the apocolypse, and some even suggested that he was giving the "nazi salute".   I saw differently, I immediately understood that it was Sabazios.   I had just been looking at the many archeological finds of 'hands of Sabazios' in Turkey and surrounding areas with the characteristic extended two fingers and thumb, and had no idea what it signified - and I still don't.   There are no real good images around you can find of the CFR logo, there are basically two, in one it is easy to see that the 4th and 5th fingers are retracted, in the other it is easy to see that there are two fingers extended - but neither conclusively show the Sabazios hand-sign ... so I can't be certain.  But given that the Cult of Sabazios was the first "mystery religion" by which an elite core ran things and withheld secret information from other members, it seemed to me the CFR logo was in fact Sabazios.   The story of the world is NOT Sabazios, again, the cult was just a blip on the world stage.   But it sure looks to me like the CFR thought it important enough to use its horseman as the symbol for its organization.

Whew.

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

Okay, do you think the Cult of Sabazios could be connected to this:

Thunderbolts of the Gods
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 316220374#

[uroko]

I've only watched the first part of it so far, but looks really interesting.  

I wanted to ammend my statements, had a chat with a member via PM about the Cult of Sabazios and if it was really the first "mystery religion" - I did read that somewhere, but I was not able to find a source.  The definition I'm going by being, by the way, a cult where an inside circle of priests/initiates guard secret knowlege and partake in rites to the exclusion of others outside the circle.    It appears that the Eleusinian Mysteries fit this description, and predate Sabazios by as much as a thousand years - wikipedia has the origins of the Eleusinian Mysteries at 1600 BCE, which would predate even Cybele ... my bad.    :oops:    Moral, don't believe everything you read.

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

No worries, uroko.... I think all of us have had our humble moments at TIU...

You might find the film interesting regarding Venus at about 50:00 minutes in. I think in ancient times, the belief that temple "Priests" could prevent electrical discharges across the earth brought them into an "elect" status.

[mgt23]

an interesting fact is that sept 16th is the date of the pope/queen summit ............and the date that the Eleusinian Mysteries are celerbrated.

[uroko]

No worries, uroko.... I think all of us have had our humble moments at TIU...

You're very kind      I fret about being factually correct in statements, while on the other hand I tend to blurt stuff out unabashedly which support my own take on things - a bad habit, but I'm getting smarter  a little bit at a time.   Hey, I was never good at history and I don't think I was ever really introduced to the Greek Myths in school.  If I was, I must have been sleeping.  

I've been playing catch-up over the last few years as I realized that that sort of stuff is actually relevant to me and the world around me.   Not only relevant, but VERY INTERESTING!   If schools taught ANYTHING in a format where the relevance of the subject (world history, Greek myths, Pinocchio???) to the world around us were highlighted instead of hidden, I'm sure history would be much more interesting to many more people ... but that's the whole point, isn't it? - we aren't supposed to learn any of this stuff.   We aren't supposed to learn more that what it takes to do a job and contribute to society (i.e. generate income and pay taxes).    

Kudos for the wealth of information in the many posts above - I'm trying to read/watch it all, I'm probably about half way there.  I really appreciate it, I am WAY interested in all of this, and all of the above links are pin-point on to what I'm chasing.   Thanks to everyone here who has posted in this thread or watched my flick.   But I'm pretty deep into Uroko part 11 (should be done and uploaded in a week or two) and it's taking up all my free time.   (Then I have to go back and fix some things in earlier installments.)  

Anyway, Cheers.   Nice forum, I love being around inquisitive people  

[uroko]

an interesting fact is that sept 16th is the date of the pope/queen summit ............and the date that the Eleusinian Mysteries are celerbrated.

I've run across these date/numeric correlations so many times it's laughable.  Undoubtedly, the true elite are freaks - they thrive on this stuff, they think its important - they flaunt their symbology in our faces.  Watch Madonna's 'Cherish' video ... mermaids.   (Mer-men?).   I mentioned the Fifth Element and the Golden Compass - that only scratches the surface.   They flaunt their symbology - Osiris' penis as big as a building on the Washingon Mall.  As for numbers, I live in Japan, which is completely decimal - everything is in 10's.  Not in the states, so many things are counted by 12 - a dozen donuts, 12 inches in a foot ... and more internationally, 12 constellations, 12 (or 13?) tribes of Israel, 12 stars on the EU flag, 12 disciples, 12 months in a year (the lunar cycle is 13, as are the number of female menstrual cycles in a year - which related to the "great mother" and its importance, and by extension the Bull, Taurus, whose horns are equivocated with the crescent moon and is so female, to whose bull-headed Molech children were sacrificed) hence the "dark" or "enlightened" number 13.)

I see the relationship between the numbers 12 and 13 as a distinction between the 12 constellations and the (secretive) "13 constellations", the later of which include Draco at the center of the other 12, who rules the heavens.

People have been throwing out all sorts of theories for why the attacks in New York were carried out on '9/11'.

Here's one no one has advanced.   AD 911 was the year of the treaty of Saint Clair-sur-Epte, whereby the Viking and Frank branches made peace, Rollo took a Carolingian wife, and the Normans were born.   Pretty important, considering Rollo's descendent conquered England.  
 

[uroko]

My apologies, I haven't gotten to the bit about Venus and 'electrical charges'.  But my interest is piqued, in relation to the Ark of the Covenant and its alleged conductive properties.  Somebody out there is deep into this bit and has written about the Ark of the Covenant, its gold and its electrical properties - I can 't remember who