Good history lesson about Christian Zionism.

[GordZilla]

http://vimeo.com/29901084

First I'd point out the old canard that Jews created Christianity, this is utter bullshit right on its face. For one, why the hell would they have to spend so much time and resources working to change the message of Jesus Christ? Why not just write it that way in the first place?? I don't believe my enemy to be that stupid, some do though  -apparently. Secondly,  the Christian faith has brought forth many men who have fought against the Jew under their banner of Jesus Christ, another aspect of history that some conveniently choose to ignore. But it happened -repeatedly. In fact virtually the only resistance the Jew ever faced from any group was predominately from Christians. That speaks volumes to the power of this faith, it's ability to unite, and - historically - its ability to spot out the Jew and have him removed. Again, why would they even bother 'creating' this man named Jesus? Some really think they are just that stupid. But it is in fact the opposite; it was this faith, of all other faiths and lack of faith, that had to be destroyed and/or re-written for exactly this reason;  the resistance it has historically shown them.

They are Satan's children, as aptly pointed out for us by Jesus, they did not evolve this way, nor is it indoctrination (although that does exist). Indoctrination fails when you consider the sheer number of them that, regardless if they are 'religious' or secular, will still -overwhelmingly- side with Israel no matter what blatant injustice she commits. In any other 'indoctrinated' populations, whether by media or by another faith, you will not find this unquestionable solidarity.  Only in Jews do we see this, across the board, love for Israel and indelible hate for all others. Even among Christian Zionists you will find some who are not so sure and eventually leave the faith behind, but among Jews? Virtually never! They are a different creature entirely. Understanding that is the first step. Understanding that you cannot EVER re-program them, where you can any other indoctrinated population. Failure to understand that fact is exactly why we fail and fail again. Good Jews?  Of all their population we maybe have what ? Five, maybe, speaking up with the truth? And even those few have questionable loyalties. Indoctrination? Fail. Evolution? Fail. (If they evolved amongst us, why are they still so different? and physically too)

Satan's minions?

Yup. I know there are those that will deny that conclusion, but these are the same people who willingly ignore so much of the inconvenient parts of history to make their points, and who will offer no other explanation for them in return. They are the same people who act arrogantly towards others who happen to believe in a creator when they themselves have no way, for certain, to know that there is not.

We, here at TiU, all know the enemy, and it's not each other. The Christians here are not Christian Zionists. The Muslims here are not Shariah law practicing Muslims, and they are also 'Jew wise'. The atheists here are also 'Jew wise'. But the militant atheists here are not wise at all. They are only working to divide this already small movement even further, great 'wisdom' there. :roll:  And without the ability to know better themselves, regardless of their apparently unlimited hot air supply, their motives become questionable at best. They still can't know better, and they don't. Yet they still go out of their way to cause discord, amongst us, just the same.

Open the bellows, let the hot air start blowing....

[checkitb4uwreckit]

Do you have Alzheimer's or something? Amnesia? You've made this same post like 50 times already. Are you just going to keep posting this nonsense over and over again until someone actually buys it?

[GordZilla]

And so beings the hot air. (what 10 minutes after?? )

P.S> I have never linked that video here, i.e. it's not the same post.

and you have still remained a predictable hypocrite all this time.

 

remember this?;

"Still waiting...."

You don't KNOW better, regardless of your constant smearing - so please; STFU. Perhaps watch the video instead, you just might learn something, as impossibly hard as your 'humble' self will find that to believe -it may just happen.

Nothing here has been disproven by you, regardless of your constant claims to the contrary. Denial boy.

[checkitb4uwreckit]

First I'd point out the old canard that Jews created Christianity, this is utter bullshit right on its face. For one, why the hell would they have to spend so much time and resources working to change the message of Jesus Christ? Why not just write it that way in the first place??

Why has your god allowed the Jews to "change" the message of Jesus? If he/she is all-powerful, then why can't it just beam the message of Christ into everyone's mind to spare the confusion? Why couldn't Jesus do that when he was supposedly walking this earth? If he could do all these other magic tricks and violations of nature like walking on water, turning water into wine, making multitudes of food out of thin air, rising from the dead, etc, then why couldn't he do that? What a ridiculously inept god you worship.

God is imaginary. Jesus is imaginary.

They are Satan's children

Who created Satan? And where can I meet this satan?  :think: :lol:

Satan is a word derived from the Hebrew word Ha-Satan meaning "Adversary" or "Opposer". It's obviously not a real person, it is an imaginary entity conceived by the Jewish religion. I can't believe you actually believe there is an invisible bogeyman named satan roaming around committing evil acts. How can a grown adult claiming intelligence believe in such foolishness? Why not believe in invisible horned demonic leprechauns? What's the difference?

[checkitb4uwreckit]

Nothing here has been disproven by you, regardless of your constant claims to the contrary. Denial boy.

That's about the equivalent to a Jew saying that the holocaust hasn't been disproven.

Denial boy.

Is this the Christian version of the Jew phrase "holocaust denier"? People with no evidence usually resort to calling those who don't buy their ridiculous claims "deniers".

[checkitb4uwreckit]

Satan's minions?

Yup. I know there are those that will deny that conclusion, but these are the same people who willingly ignore so much of the inconvenient parts of history to make their points,

Yes, we don't believe there is an invisible horned entity called "Satan" (hebrew "Ha-Satan") going around doing evil, supernatural magic tricks. Yet we are the ones who lack credibility? ROFL  :lol:

Jews invented Satan. You are just peddling another Jewish fairy tale. You seem to be zealously attached to a lot of Hebrew fairy tales Gordzilla. :roll:

p.s. You're not much of a historian, you were previously trying to tell us that Jesus was the first and best person to call out the Jews. He wasn't the first, and not the best. I don't think I'll be looking to you for accurate history any time soon buddy.

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

Good points, Gordo. Jews pointing people to Christianity would run more of a risk of those once-converted Christians one day turning on them once they read all the contempt for Judaism and the Pharisees in the Prophets and the New Testament. Jews are all about taking calculated risks. It makes no mathematical sense for Jews to create and shepherd Christianity. As for Christian Zionism, that needs to be treated as a separate entity altogether.

[GordZilla]

Care to actually debate or offer alternative narratives to what I actually posted?

Still waiting....


Jews created Jesus ... pfft!


You KNOW there is no creator? pfft!


But hot air and attacks on the faith itself you are never short on.  This post was not about the validity of the bible, but rather the NEED the Jew had to destroy and corrupt the message of Jesus Christ, particularly where concerning them. Now why would they bother to do that? Imaginary? Maybe but that would render their efforts pointless -especially considering if they, in fact, created Him in the first place. Effective resistance to them? Provably so, historically. They wrote it, then had to re-write it cause they are just that stupid? pfft.  You never address these points because you can't. Jews are testament to the very thing you, apparently magically, know does not exist. You can't offer alternatives, well you never do anyways, but yet you are always so sure because parts of the bible (whichever one you use) don't mesh well with your sensibilities - and of course we all know that just can't be right. You are, after all, the epitome of all collective human knowledge...  :roll:


Now go back and read the post and debunk what I actually said, not Christianity, but what I actually said.

For instance show that;

The Christians were not historically the biggest thorn in the Jew's sides? What group offered more resistance historically? More times?  

or that;

They evolved that way? It's indoctrination? They are aliens??  Let's hear your take- for once- on those topics, and while you're at it I'm still waiting for you to explain how you feel justified pissing and shitting on other people's faiths when you have no way to know there is not a creator yourself?

You distract so much, keep it on topic. And watch the video.

Why does this even bother you MSMD? The 'Jew wise' Christians here can only help our cause, like all of the 'Jew wise' anybodies anywhere. But as soon as the word 'Jesus' is stated anywhere on this board you always have to jump in, predictability, and add your 2 cents worth of piss and shit.

Telling others their opinion doesn't matter, yet you feel the need to add yours to every post that mentions faith in anyway. Well your opinion too, certainly does not matter in this case.


P.S> He was most certainly 'the best', as a whole 'Jew wise' faith grew up around Him that bested the Jew more times than any other ideology -hands down. That'd be the point there MSMD, try to follow it. Prove it wasn't effective while offering -FOR ONCE- what was more effective.  The way I see it; you simply attack the faith, a faith that was historically a hindrance to the Jew more than any other, while at the same time not knowing that there is no creator -with any certainty. While promoting atheism, which has historically helped the Jew. And on top of all that, you go out of your way to cause divide in Jew wise forums. You are a hypocrite and quite possibly much worse.

[checkitb4uwreckit]

More mindless ravings from a person clearly under a severe form of mind control. :crazy:

Tell me, Gordzilla, what exactly has your blind faith in an invisible saviour god done to curb the Jewish agenda?

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

More mindless ravings from a person clearly under a severe form of mind control. :crazy:

Tell me, Gordzilla, what exactly has your blind faith in an invisible saviour god done to curb the Jewish agenda?

One could ask you the same. What has sitting in your Mom's basement for hours on end everyday making voiced-over videos done to curb the Jewish agenda?

[checkitb4uwreckit]

More mindless ravings from a person clearly under a severe form of mind control. :crazy:

Tell me, Gordzilla, what exactly has your blind faith in an invisible saviour god done to curb the Jewish agenda?

One could ask you the same. What has sitting in your Mom's basement for hours on end everyday making voiced-over videos done to curb the Jewish agenda?

Videos viewed by thousands of people is a heck of a lot more effective to curb or at least expose the Jewish agenda then sitting around in your basement day in day out reading bible passages to yourself and getting giggly over Jesus fables, retard.  :clap:

[GordZilla]

I took a quick shower and was reflecting...


...you know what the very worst part is, MSMD? And I mean this with all sincerity; We should be friends or, at the very least, allies- instead of being pissing contest contenders.  I will never convince you of the existence of God, I highly doubt you'll ever convince me of there not being one. I will not debate on the verses of the Bible, their meaning or their validity, if you agree to refrain from attacking people based solely on their faith - at least here at TiU (attack organized religion if you wish, but I still fail to see the sense in attacking faithful 'Jew wise' members on a personal level -bottom line is we need numbers). If we could agree to disagree I think you will find a strong ally in me, as I would hope to find in you -as before.

As for your question? (as I just noticed your next post);  It gave me some strength, which I have no doubt you can achieve without it, to approach people directly and speak my mind - with no fear and for almost two decades.  I attribute much of that strength to faith, and the 'not wanting to remain silent' to the same. I know you don't need to have faith to accomplish these things, but I also known, personally, some old folk I have talked with -along the way- that found none of it to be a surprise- They were already 'Jew-wise' and apart from their personal experiences and their knowledge of the words of Jesus Christ they had no other way to have become that way. No internet, no underground magazines etc. That is the power of this faith, and I know it's only left inside but a few old farts now, most are dead, but I know it's the same 'type' of faith that exists today in our 'Jew wise' faithful members here at TiU. Maybe that's not the answer you wanted, but again I don't want to fight about this. I posted the link originally for those interested in finding out more about how this faith got perverted, not to start a huge debate. I admit I knew it was coming, but I'm hoping we can use this as a vehicle to finally end this. I, for one, am done.  I still, even after all we've thrown at each other, still have respect for you, MSMD.  I know you are a very logical thinker, I know you have made change within this movement, I know you have done good work. My only issue, well it's always been the same, is that (in my opinion)  there's no point in attacking the  'Jew wise' faithful here, we can debate - no problem - but this out and out personal mudslinging is helping no one. Don't you get tired of this too? I do. I find it very taxing.

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

More mindless ravings from a person clearly under a severe form of mind control. :crazy:

Tell me, Gordzilla, what exactly has your blind faith in an invisible saviour god done to curb the Jewish agenda?

One could ask you the same. What has sitting in your Mom's basement for hours on end everyday making voiced-over videos done to curb the Jewish agenda?

Videos viewed by thousands of people is a heck of a lot more effective to curb or at least expose the Jewish agenda then sitting around in your basement day in day out reading bible passages to yourself and getting giggly over Jesus fables, retard.  :clap:

You amuse yourself probably thinking you come off so clever to others. You couldn't be further from the truth. Wise in your own eyes. Perhaps one day you will grow up and get a life.

[checkitb4uwreckit]

You amuse yourself probably thinking you come off so clever to others. You couldn't be further from the truth. Wise in your own eyes. Perhaps one day you will grow up and get a life.

FAIL :lol:

[checkitb4uwreckit]

I will never convince you of the existence of God, I highly doubt you'll ever convince me of there not being one.

That's because you want to believe there is one, not that you have any legitimate reason for that belief. That mentality is dangerous because people who choose to believe in something without evidence, the very definition of "faith", can be made to believe anything and no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary, no matter how unlikely, they will continue to believe. Imagine taking that approach with issues like the holohoax, 9/11, and other important subjects? The fact that you're not that way with these other issues is inherently hypocritical. If you're defending faith, which you have been doing relentlessly, then I guess you have no real reason to criticize people who have "faith" that 6,000,000 Jews died in the holohoax, or that nineteen Muslims did 9/11.

That's a big problem.

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

Good points, Gordo. Is it any wonder that virtually every single Church Father is considered anti-Semitic?

Then we have the father of the protestant church Martin Luther publishing his stupendous take on Jewry:








Gord, have you read this piece? It is essential reading.

[GordZilla]

Many pieces, but never in its entirety ...send it over  

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

Many pieces, but never in its entirety ...send it over  

PDF of The Jews and Their Lies
http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres9/Luthereng.pdf

[Christopher Marlowe]

That's because you want to believe there is one [God], not that you have any legitimate reason for that belief. That mentality is dangerous because people who choose to believe in something without evidence, the very definition of "faith", can be made to believe anything and no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary, no matter how unlikely, they will continue to believe.

CLAIMS
1. There is an assumption that one who believes because of faith does not have any legitimate reason.  
2. The mentality of "faith" is said to be dangerous.
3. People with "faith" can be made to believe anything and no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary, no matter how unlikely, they will continue to believe.

1. What is faith? St. Paul says that Faith is the substance the things hoped for; the evidence of things unseen. I will only defend the Catholic Faith as that is the one True Faith. The Christian faith is well articulated: we hope in Christ. We hope to live with Christ for ever in His kingdom.  

We have many legitimate reasons to have faith: many signs and messages from God; from scripture, in the lives of the saints, and in our personal lives. We have been blessed with a companion, the Holy Spirit, who lives in us and walks with us. The Holy Spirit teaches us to grow in the faith and articulates the message of God. The Holy Spirit breaks open God's scripture and shows how the Word of God is present in our lives. I could go on at length about things I have witnessed, but for those who believe it would not be necessary, and for those who do not believe, there would never be enough proof.  That is the way it is to people who do not have faith.

But people who have faith have sufficient reason: the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

2. Many with Faith in Jesus Christ were martyred.  Wicked men hey suffered and died for their faith, and others without faith might have cause to fear and to turn away from Jesus and deny Him. But we know that when these Holy Martyrs suffered for their Faith, God performed great miracles. (St. John was thrown into boiling oil, but was unharmed. Instead he was exiled to Patmos, where he wrote the Book of Revelation.) The people who witnessed the death of the martyrs sometimes came to have faith because of the courage that the martyrs displayed. Thus the faith was spread by the blood of the martyrs.  

The Christian faith is dangerous to the wicked people of this world, and to satan their leader.  They cannot make slaves of people who are Christian because Christians are not afraid of death.  Jesus said: "Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." A Christian knows that he will have life eternal if he is martyred, and so he gives his life freely.

The Christian faith is dangerous to the wicked forces of the world because Christians are given wisdom to recognize sin, and the strength to avoid it. Sin causes people to become weak and confused and ultimately sin causes sickness and death. Sin helps to enslave people because people who are trapped by sin have lost their powers of reason; people trapped by sin are fearful and guilty because of what they know they have done. People in sin judge themselves; they know that they have done wrong because their consciences condemn them. They know that they deserve punishment because they say that others have done the same thing deserve punishment. But Jesus Christ can free us from sin, and relieve our consciences from guilt and worry.  People who have faith can turn away from sin, and these people can resist the wicked forces of the world.

Thus faith might cause a man to die, but that man will have eternal life. And faith is dangerous to the wicked forces in the world.  

3. People with the one true faith believe in what has been articulated in the Holy Bible, which is briefly summarized in the Apostle's Creed and the Nicene Creed. If they don't believe in the Creed, then they don't have the faith. Conversely, people who do believe in Jesus cannot be made to believe in anything contrary to the faith. A person with faith will not believe in something that denies Jesus. The very definition of faith is tied to the fact that a person with faith will not believe in something that denies the faith.

While some may doubt God and invent lies about Him, the evidence points to the existence of God. All of Creation tells of God.

Rom 1:16-20: For I am not ashamed of the gospel. For it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth... [17] For the justice of God is revealed therein, from faith unto faith, as it is written: The just man liveth by faith. [18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and injustice of those men that detain the truth of God in injustice: [19] Because that which is known of God is manifest in them. For God hath manifested it unto them. [20] For the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made; his eternal power also, and divinity: so that they are inexcusable.

People who lack faith are more likely to believe in anything. If a person considers himself guided only by science, then he will claim that all of his judgments are guided by reason and experience. But without the help of God, such a person will be steered by his limited experience. Judgments that may seem wise in the short term might end up being foolish in the long term. For example, look at China. The leaders of that country considered that they had "too many people" and that there would not be enough resources if the population grew.  The government implemented a policy of one child per family to correct this population explosion. But all of the individual families wanted to have a boy as their single child. The net result was that the population killed, aborted or abandoned millions of little girls.  The result is that China has a ratio of 120 boys to 100 girls.

A person with faith would not abort a baby because they would know that God hates abortion. But foolish people who don't believe in God use their science to invent words to excuse the practice of killing babies. Foolish feminists who don't have faith will defend the evil practice of abortion even though the majority of babies being killed are little girls. The people who hate God will continue to murder babies, even though there is science that shows that the babies have little hands and feet, and can feel pain.

We can see in this example that the person with faith will avoid this error, but the person without faith commits this gross error no matter how much evidence proves that they are wrong. They continue to insist they are right no matter how much evidence to the contrary.  They could see pictures of little babies before they are born. They could see videos and scientific research that shows the babies suffering in pain. They could see studies that show the harmful effect of abortion on women.  But no matter how unlikely it is that abortion is good, the people without faith continue to believe that it is. No matter how unlikely it is to be beneficial for a country to limit all families to one child, the people without faith continue to believe this practice is good.  

Why would someone who claims to be guided by reason and experience make such gross errors? Because when they abandon God, He allows them to be guided by their own foolishness. Their reason is overcome by their sinful nature.

Rom 1:21-32: Because that, when they knew God, they have not glorified him as God, or given thanks; but became vain in their thoughts, and their foolish heart was darkened. [22] For professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. [23] And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of the image of a corruptible man, and of birds, and of fourfooted beasts, and of creeping things. [24] Wherefore God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness, to dishonour their own bodies among themselves. [25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie; and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

[26] For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. [27] And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. [28] And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient; [29] Being filled with all iniquity, malice, fornication, avarice, wickedness, full of envy, murder, contention, deceit, malignity, whisperers, [30] Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

[26] "God delivered them up"... Not by being author of their sins, but by withdrawing his grace, and so permitting them, in punishment of their pride, to fall into those shameful sins.

[31] Foolish, dissolute, without affection, without fidelity, without mercy. [32] Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them.

What is the fate of the men who do not have women in a Godless society? Will they become reprobates? And haven't the women used their bodies for that which is against nature: abortion?  

This is just one example. We can see the effects of what people without faith do: they invent weapons of destruction and start wars; they turn the practice of medicine into peddling drugs and poisonous vaccines; they turn all of business into fraudulent schemes; they make a mockery of the law, legalizing immorality and making it illegal to question their shameful practices.  

People with faith are not immune from error, but they are kept from these gross errors because Jesus tells that our lives are precious, and that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit.  People of Faith endeavor to remain in Jesus so that He will bring us to eternal life. It is the promise of eternal life that gives people something to hope for.  It is the example of Jesus that gives people an example of how to live their lives.  Those unfortunate people without faith are guided only by their own sinful desires. They have no examples except for the ones deemed worthy by their degenerate culture. People without faith figure they are going to die anyway, so they live their lives only for the pleasure they can derive.  So it is people without faith that will do anything to please themselves.  People without faith do not fear hell, so they wantonly commit sinful acts that will bring them to damnation.

So we can see that it is people without faith who will believe anything, and will persist in their own foolishness no matter how much evidence to the contrary.

[checkitb4uwreckit]

1. What is faith? St. Paul says that Faith is the substance the things hoped for; the evidence of things unseen. I will only defend the Catholic Faith as that is the one True Faith.

As opposed to the thousands of other "faiths" that exist, and that billions of other humans adhere to, you are certain that yours is the "one true faith." And when your "faith" didn't even exist yet, say 5000 years ago, what then would be the one "true faith"? Certainly not Catholicism, it didn't exist. That's a big problem for you and your claim.

Someone could just as easily say that faith in invisible leprechauns in the one true faith.  

The Christian faith is well articulated: we hope in Christ. We hope to live with Christ for ever in His kingdom.  

I can hope to live forever in the invisible spirit kingdom world of the invisible leprechaun gods. Would you call me silly for believing that? If you did than that would make you a hypocrite because it's not a qualitatively different belief that the one you hold.

We have many legitimate reasons to have faith: many signs and messages from God; from scripture, in the lives of the saints, and in our personal lives.

Signs and messages from god? Someone hallucinating on LSD might think they were in contact with the flying spaghetti monster or demonic leprechauns, does that make it so? Is that proof? No. Scripture is a not a legitimate source, scripture is a wholly unreliable and discredited source. These are the same scriptures that say the earth is flat and is sitting on pillars, that the sun stood still for a day, and that a bat is a bird, there are talking snakes and unicorns in the bible and other absurdities you would expect from primitive man. Because the Church has designated certain people "saints" is not proof of anything either.

Not to mention we don't even have the original version of the scriptures. All we have is a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy, that was translated and re-translated, and inevitably mistranslated. Is this the best, most efficient way your all-powerful deity could come up with to get his message across to his creation?

We have been blessed with a companion, the Holy Spirit, who lives in us and walks with us. The Holy Spirit teaches us to grow in the faith and articulates the message of God. The Holy Spirit breaks open God's scripture and shows how the Word of God is present in our lives.

Maybe this "holy spirit" is an invisible leprechaun? You are just making absurd claims without any evidence. I could claim an invisible pink unicorn lives in us and walks with us and teaches us to grow in faith and articulates the message of the invisible pink unicorn god in his magical, fairy kingdom in the sky. You can't say I'm wrong because your claim is no different.

I could go on at length about things I have witnessed, but for those who believe it would not be necessary, and for those who do not believe, there would never be enough proof.  That is the way it is to people who do not have faith.

What I'm sensing is that you don't actually have any evidence for these things you claim to have witnessed so you just deride skeptics who require legitimate evidence and proof to believe the fanciful stories you would tell. Typical of Christians.

Marlowe, do you have "faith" that 6,000,000 Jews died in the holohoax or that 19 Muslims did 9/11? Why not if you're defending faith? If you were trying to convince someone that Israel did 9/11, and despite all the overwhelming evidence you present proving your position to be true, the person just dismisses it all and says "I have faith dem moozlims did it." And you couldn't really criticize him/her for doing that because you are trying to defend faith here, believing in something without any evidence. That is how ridiculous and hypocritical your defense of "faith" is.

But people who have faith have sufficient reason: the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

Ummm... lol... so the reason you have faith is because you hope for stuff and claim there is evidence of things not seen (yet have failed to present any)? Am I reading this correctly? This is beyond ridiculous. :crazy:

2. Many with Faith in Jesus Christ were martyred.  Wicked men hey suffered and died for their faith

So what, many people are "martyred" for a lot of different causes and beliefs. People have "died" for a lot of bizarre, ridiculous, and insane reasons. People have murdered their own children claiming god commanded them to do it. People have slaughtered others claiming god commanded them to do it. The Catholic Church accused people of being "witches" and burned them at the stake, millions of people. Is that proof god exists, because people do wicked things in the name of their religion? No, it's proof that those people are insane and mentally ill.

But we know that when these Holy Martyrs suffered for their Faith

Not proof their faith is true.

God performed great miracles. (St. John was thrown into boiling oil, but was unharmed. Instead he was exiled to Patmos, where he wrote the Book of Revelation.)

Have you witnessed any of these miracles yourself? No, some primitive nutjobs wrote stories claiming god performed miracles. There is not a scratch of proof these actually occurred, and tons of evidence these stories are fabricated bullshit. Do you have evidence that St. John was thrown into boiling oil, and was unharmed? No, it says so in a book that also claims there are talking snakes and unicorns, that the earth is sitting on pillars, has edges and four corners, that the sun stood still for a day, etc. I find it awfully convenient that god suddenly stopped performing his magic tricks and violations of nature precisely when humans developed modern science and were able to investigate these claims and prove them to be bullshit using modern scientific methods. Only when humans had no scientific knowledge were these "miracles" claimed to have happened. It's not a coincidence that god performs no miracles today. You actually believe that this all-powerful being waited 4.5 billion years to finally create humans then waited anther 198,000 years sitting in the sky upon which he finally gives primitive, uneducated men a couple of signs that he exists, and then goes back into hiding. Fucking ridiculous.

The people who witnessed the death of the martyrs sometimes came to have faith because of the courage that the martyrs displayed. Thus the faith was spread by the blood of the martyrs.  

Only proof that people will spill their blood over something that doesn't exist. All this proves is that people are stupid and reckless.

The Christian faith is dangerous to the wicked people of this world, and to satan their leader.  They cannot make slaves of people who are Christian because Christians are not afraid of death.

Riiight. The wicked people of this world rule this world. Your god has done nothing to stop it so you blame it all on another conjured bogeyman "satan" to excuse god from responsibility for this evil. But god must have created satan and known all the deeds he was going to do since he created everything and is all-knowing. You can't escape the fact that IF your god exists he must be malevolent. Fact is, neither satan or jehovah/yahweh (whatever you call your god) exists. You worship a fairy tale.

A Christian knows that he will have life eternal if he is martyred, and so he gives his life freely.

Then why don't you go get yourself martyred if it will make you live forever? What are you waiting for?  :roll:

The Christian faith is dangerous to the wicked forces of the world because Christians are given wisdom to recognize sin, and the strength to avoid it.

Which version of the Christian faith? There are dozens of different versions, I guess you claim only your version is dangerous to wicked forces, even though your "faith" hasn't stopped any big evil from occurring. Has "faith" in a god saved the millions of children who starve to death every year? And most of these children hadn't even come into contact with the bible or heard of Jesus or any of that crap. I guess they all go to hell simply because they never heard the name of Jesus? And what about the millions of aborted children? Are they also roasting in hell as well? And what about people born retarded/mentally deficient who don't even understand such concepts of god? Are they all in hell as well? According to your faith, yes they are.

But Jesus Christ can free us from sin, and relieve our consciences from guilt and worry.  People who have faith can turn away from sin, and these people can resist the wicked forces of the world.

I wonder why Jesus Christ has never appeared me, you or anyone else. In the bible, god says he will do anything you ask. In the bible Jesus appears to hundreds of people. Yet, if you pray for Jesus to appear to you, nothing ever happens. I wonder why?  

Prove that Jesus is imaginary in less than 5 minutes
[youtube:2yrazede]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUj8hg5CoSw[/youtube]2yrazede]

Thus faith might cause a man to die, but that man will have eternal life. And faith is dangerous to the wicked forces in the world.  

No, faith hasn't done anything to stopp wicked forces, and has, in fact, caused wicked things to happen in the world. Because people who believe so staunchly in a god will kill others if they believe their god has commanded it. According to Christ-tards god is perfect and good and anything he commands of us we must do. Therefore, if god commanded you to murder 50 people, would you do it?

3. People with the one true faith believe in what has been articulated in the Holy Bible, which is briefly summarized in the Apostle's Creed and the Nicene Creed. If they don't believe in the Creed, then they don't have the faith. Conversely, people who do believe in Jesus cannot be made to believe in anything contrary to the faith. A person with faith will not believe in something that denies Jesus. The very definition of faith is tied to the fact that a person with faith will not believe in something that denies the faith.

Thanks for that jibberish.  :up:

While some may doubt God and invent lies about Him, the evidence points to the existence of God. All of Creation tells of God.

No it doesn't. I can show you how a computer was created by humans. I can show you all the parts and components that comprise this computer, i can bring you to the factory where the computer was made and show you exactly how it was put together and how all the parts work and function. You can't bring me to a "god factory" where your invisible deity is conjuring celestial bodies out of thin air. If you can't do that then you can't say our existence is proof god exists. And then you'd have to explain which god exists because there are tens of thousands of different gods humans have invented. If you were to argue simply for a creator than that would make you a deist and negate the validity of your theist faith.

Rom 1:16-20: For I am not ashamed of the gospel. For it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth... [17] For the justice of God is revealed therein, from faith unto faith, as it is written: The just man liveth by faith. [18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and injustice of those men that detain the truth of God in injustice: [19] Because that which is known of God is manifest in them. For God hath manifested it unto them. [20] For the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made; his eternal power also, and divinity: so that they are inexcusable.

More jibberish.  :roll:

People who lack faith are more likely to believe in anything.

So people who lack a belief in invisible leprechauns are more likely to believe in say, unicorns? Your claim is retarded. People of "faith", i.e. believing in something without evidence and IN SPITE of evidence to the contrary (Christians make hundreds of bizarre excuses and rationalizations for all the contradictions and impossibilities of their religion), are way more likely to believe in things like unicorns, leprechauns, witches, demons and other fantasist garbage. In fact many religious people DO believe in fantasist garbage like that! Angels/Demons, Ghosts and Holy Spirits, are on par with Leprechauns, Unicorns, the Tooth Fairy and Santa Clause. There is ZERO qualitative difference between any of those fictional entities. Yet you believe in the former and not the latter? That makes you a hypocrite.

If a person considers himself guided only by science, then he will claim that all of his judgments are guided by reason and experience.

Reason and experience is all we know. It would be foolish to try and go outside of logic and reason to assess whether something is true or not.

But without the help of God, such a person will be steered by his limited experience.

And how exactly has your god aided you to make a judgment about something that you couldn't do with simple logic and reason?

Judgments that may seem wise in the short term might end up being foolish in the long term. For example, look at China. The leaders of that country considered that they had "too many people" and that there would not be enough resources if the population grew.  The government implemented a policy of one child per family to correct this population explosion. But all of the individual families wanted to have a boy as their single child. The net result was that the population killed, aborted or abandoned millions of little girls.  The result is that China has a ratio of 120 boys to 100 girls.

So you're saying if the Chinese prayed to your god he would have told them not to do this? lmfao. But your god knows everything that will happen before-hand right since he is claimed to be all knowing right? So he knew all those children would be aborted before they were even fetuses. And what is the point of prayer if god already knows everything that is going to happen before-hand? What you're doing by praying is you're actually trying to CHANGE what god already had in mind. And if god changes the future then that means he made an error and is thus not omniscient. Therefore your god can't exist.

A person with faith would not abort a baby because they would know that God hates abortion. But foolish people who don't believe in God use their science to invent words to excuse the practice of killing babies. Foolish feminists who don't have faith will defend the evil practice of abortion even though the majority of babies being killed are little girls. The people who hate God will continue to murder babies, even though there is science that shows that the babies have little hands and feet, and can feel pain.

And people who have faith invent reasons to excuse slaughtering people, like saying their god commands the murder of people who lack the faith that you have. A lot of these abortionists and feminists are Jews. Who says they don't have faith? You mean people who don't have the same faith that you have? A majority of the people in the world don't have the same faith you have, are they all pro-abortion? Retarded.

We can see in this example that the person with faith will avoid this error, but the person without faith commits this gross error no matter how much evidence proves that they are wrong. They continue to insist they are right no matter how much evidence to the contrary.  They could see pictures of little babies before they are born. They could see videos and scientific research that shows the babies suffering in pain. They could see studies that show the harmful effect of abortion on women.  But no matter how unlikely it is that abortion is good, the people without faith continue to believe that it is. No matter how unlikely it is to be beneficial for a country to limit all families to one child, the people without faith continue to believe this practice is good.  

You are essentially claiming that all non-Christians support abortion. That's a lie, and a idiotic argument for the defense of the blind belief in an invisible man in the sky. Really dumb shit you are coming up with here.

This is just one example. We can see the effects of what people without faith do: they invent weapons of destruction and start wars; they turn the practice of medicine into peddling drugs and poisonous vaccines; they turn all of business into fraudulent schemes; they make a mockery of the law, legalizing immorality and making it illegal to question their shameful practices.  

What the hell are you talking about? religious kooks, Jews, Christians and Muslims, have started all kinds of wars and murdered tens of millions of people. Millions of religious Christian Zionist nutjobs are all for NUKING the middle-east, as are Zionist Jews. Most atheists are moral, law-abiding citizens. The prisons are filled with religious kooks. Your delusional attempt to characterize all people who don't believe the crazy, supernatural bullshit you believe in as immoral, destructive murderers and baby killers, is a grotesque falsehood, a cock-eyed lie.

So we can see that it is people without faith who will believe anything, and will persist in their own foolishness no matter how much evidence to the contrary.

No, it is people like you, who have no concern for evidence when it comes to your religion, that will believe in absolutely anything. You are engaged in psychological projection right now. In that sense, you take after the Jews.

[checkitb4uwreckit]

I don't expect you to be a man and respond to my post Marlowe, after all you'd have to invent swaths more astonishing bullshit. That takes time and effort.

[Wimpy]

leprechaun gods

-CIBYWI

According to Terrance McKenna they are observed with an adequate dose of DMT (N,N-DIMETHYLTRYPTAMINE); he didn't ever refer to them as Gods though.  A wise man will walk in another man's shoes before final judgement.

Prayer, meditation or rhythmic conscious breathing will still one's mind to hear, feel and see things you do not when the mind is too pre-occupied.  Again, walk in another man's shoe before final judgement.

When I was a younger man I briefly found myself arguing logic similar to yours.  You will not convince me or many others here, not because we are intransigent, morons or hypocrites but because we are aware of things you have yet to discover.

[checkitb4uwreckit]

leprechaun gods

-CIBYWI

According to Terrance McKenna they are observed with an adequate dose of DMT (N,N-DIMETHYLTRYPTAMINE); he didn't ever refer to them as Gods though.  A wise man will walk in another man's shoes before final judgement.

I'm sure when you're hallucinating on drugs you can see a lot of crazy shit. Does that make those things real? No.

When I was a younger man I briefly found myself arguing logic similar to yours.  You will not convince me or many others here, not because we are intransigent, morons or hypocrites but because we are aware of things you have yet to discover.

That doesn't cut it. Why have I yet to discover these things is there like a certain age when these magical things start happening and are revealed to us? And what about people who die as babies/children or at a young age, they just were shit out of luck to experience these things? Religious people are full of excuses and rationalizations. They desperately grasp at straws to defend their position and they side-step anything that doesn't fit with their ridiculous belief system. They're all too scared to even directly quote me and respond in kind because they can't. They're like Jews trying to defend the holocaust story. No diff.

[Wimpy]

That doesn't cut it. Why have I yet to discover these things is there like a certain age when these magical things start happening and are revealed to us? And what about people who die as babies/children or at a young age, they just were shit out of luck to experience these things? Religious people are full of excuses and rationalizations. They desperately grasp at straws to defend their position and they side-step anything that doesn't fit with their ridiculous belief system. They're all too scared to even directly quote me and respond in kind because they can't. They're like Jews trying to defend the holocaust story. No diff.

My guess is that you haven't tried to discover "it" and what the Fuck do Babies/Children have do with my point?  Strawman argument indeed!  You are dismissive without knowing and I certainly never claimed that these realizations followed the path of simple logic, which you rely entirely upon.  I refer to nothing secret only something that one must intentionally strive to accomplish and it is obvious you haven't.  So, come back when you make the effort to still your spastic mind and accomplish the acquisition of knowledge necessary to fully and competently discuss the topic.  You will then, perhaps, have the direct experience to handle these discussions/arguments with less impudence.

[checkitb4uwreckit]

That doesn't cut it. Why have I yet to discover these things is there like a certain age when these magical things start happening and are revealed to us? And what about people who die as babies/children or at a young age, they just were shit out of luck to experience these things? Religious people are full of excuses and rationalizations. They desperately grasp at straws to defend their position and they side-step anything that doesn't fit with their ridiculous belief system. They're all too scared to even directly quote me and respond in kind because they can't. They're like Jews trying to defend the holocaust story. No diff.

My guess is that you haven't tried to discover "it" and what the Fuck do Babies/Children have do with my point?  Strawman argument indeed!  You are dismissive without knowing and I certainly never claimed that these realizations followed the path of simple logic, which you rely entirely upon.  I refer to nothing secret only something that one must intentionally strive to accomplish and it is obvious you haven't.  So, come back when you make the effort to still your spastic mind and accomplish the acquisition of knowledge necessary to fully and competently discuss the topic.  You will then, perhaps, have the direct experience to handle these discussions/arguments with less impudence.

I'm not even sure what the hell you're arguing for or trying to defend, your post was jibberish. Looks like you were trying to claim that leprechauns are real lol. Are you a Christian?

[checkitb4uwreckit]

I wonder why "Christopher Marlowe" refuses to respond to my rebuttal to his absurd claims. I seen him online earlier so I know he's read it. If these religious kooks were so confident in their position they'd have no problem responding to my rebuttals, but they either selectively quote and spin some more ridiculous bullshit or just refuse to respond. Very indicative of the weakness of their position.

[Wimpy]

You can not relate because you do not have the first hand experience.  If and when you arrive at that point, there is nothing more you can currently add besides childish taunts and tantrums and there is nothing more I desire to say since it is beyond your comprehension.

[checkitb4uwreckit]

You can not relate because you do not have the first hand experience.  If and when you arrive at that point, there is nothing more you can currently add besides childish taunts and tantrums and there is nothing more I desire to say since it is beyond your comprehension.

Wow, it's beyond my comprehension eh? But you can comprehend it, so that must make you a superhuman or something? And what exactly are we talking about here? Oh I forgot, I wouldn't be able to comprehend it anyway since it's beyond my comprehension  :lol:  :crazy:

[Wimpy]

Oh, not superhuman, just human.  And you are correct about your lack of comprehension but you can and should spend some time to help cure your current ignorance.  Our being is so much more than logic and hedonistic pleasures of, say, choking the chicken or worshiping mammon.  Until then, your taunts will continue until you attain more wisdom.

In all sincerity, I do not view your lack of understanding with condescension but, rather, with compassion.  You have all the tools necessary to verify for yourself what I, and millions of others already know and continue to learn.  What do you fear,...more knowledge and understanding?

[checkitb4uwreckit]

What do you fear,...more knowledge and understanding?

That's clearly what you religious kooks fear. You won't even dare quote me and respond in kind. Because then you'd have to delve further into lala land and conjure even more excuses/rationalizations for all the obviously impossible/highly unlikely bullshit you, and others, have been spouting.