The Bible states Israel will be regathered in 2018 not 1948. Check out the math.

[Johnthewitness]

Was the nation Israel becoming a country in 1948 really the fulfillment of Ezekiel's prophecy?

4Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity. 5For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel. 6And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year. (Ezekiel 4:4-6)

Many Christians believe Israel is a divine nation of God based on the founding of the nation Israel in 1948 which seems to correspond to Ezekiel's prophecy. Most historians agree with the fact that Judah was enslaved by the Babylonians for 60 years rather than the necessary 70 that is used to arrive at the 1948 number (Wikipedia). Also why would you use the number 70, a number that is symbolic of completeness, when we know that Judah's punishment was not completed because they were punished 7x more for their sins. Lets see what happens when we use the number 60 which seems to be more historically accurate...


        390 days Judgment against the 10 northern tribes 'Israel'
        + 40 days Judgment against the 2 southern tribes 'Judah'
        = 430 years Judgment against the nation of Israel


With the northern tribes of Israel having already been taken captive by the Assyrians, in 597 B.C. Judah was also taken into captivity by the Babylonians until 537 B.C. for a grand total of exactly 60 years (Wikipedia). Instead of the 70 that most use to arrive at the year 1948. We'll get into where this commonly used 70 number comes from later...


        430 years of judgment determined against nation Israel
        - 60 years fulfilled during the Babylonian captivity
        = 370 years remaining in judgment against the nation of Israel


"And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I (God) will punish you seven times more for your sins." (Leviticus 26:18)

"And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me, then I (God) also will walk contrary to you in fury; and I, even I will chastise you seven times for your sins." (Leviticus 26:27-28)

Surely enough, Judah did not obey God and was forced to endure the 7x multiplier of God's wraith.


This leaves us with:


        370 Remaining years of judgment
        x 7 '7X' rule
        = 2,590 Years of judgment remained against nation Israel
        2,590 years
        x 360 days
        = 932,400 days of judgment remained against nation Israel after the Babylonian captivity


        Convert the 932,400 days into our 365.25 day solar (Julian) years.
        932,400 days ÷ 365.25 days = 2,552.77 years of God's judgment remained
        597 BCE
        + 60 Years
        = 537.3 B.C. Spring of 537 B.C. Cyrus allows Jews to return to Jerusalem
        + 2552.77 Years Now add the 2,552 years remaining in this judgment
        = 2017 A.D. End of judgment against Israel


Click here for the date calculator I used.


2017 A.D seems to be much closer to the date of the real regathering. However I would have been much happier to see 2018, as that correlates to the year that I believe the Israel will be destroyed. I believe that I am one of the witnesses spoken of in Revelation. I was called by God in the 7th month of 2011, which I believe marked the start of the tribulation. 7 years from 2011 would be 2018. The 2017 date obviously is off by a year. Then again those who use the 70 year captivity theory to arrive at the 1948 date were off by 2 years. (Source) Apparently the ancient Hebrews counted portions of a year as one year, with this acknowledged then the 2018 date appears to be valid. Also it does not necessarily need to be 2018. As the time that God will end his judgment upon Israel (2017) does not necessarily need to be the exact year that Mystery Babylon the Great will be destroyed (2018).


        Now to address the issue of the number 70 and why many Christians use it..


Mystery Babylon the Great will be a nation that lasts 70 years

This is what the LORD says: "When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my good promise to bring you back to this place. 11 For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12 Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you," declares the LORD, "and will bring you back from captivity.[a] I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you," declares the LORD, "and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile." (Jeremiah 29:10-14)

This segment of Jeremiah conflicts with the historically accepted 60 year length of Judah's Babylonian captivity. Could it be that this passage, instead of referring to the length of the upcoming captivity, is instead referring to the duration, the total amount of years, that ancient Babylon would be a superpower? Will it also refer to the amount of years that Mystery Babylon the Great will be a nation?


Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations. Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candle. And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years. (Jeremiah 25:9-11)

It seems clear from the context in these two segments that the seventy years applies to Babylon itself, not to the period of time that the people of Judah are to spend in Babylon. In chapter 25 it says that the nations would serve Babylon for 70 years. Again in chapter 29, Jeremiah makes the connection to Babylon by saying that 70 years are "for Babylon".

So the 70 years refers to the period of Babylonian Empire. When did this start and finish? As alluded to earlier, Babylon was conquered by Cyrus II of Persia in 539 BC. So this is the finish. When was the start? For our purposes, the start would have to be when the other "nations will serve the king of Babylon" (see excerpt from Jeremiah 25 above). The major world power prior to Babylon was Assyria.


"For a good overview of the decline of the Assyrian Empire refer to the Encyclopaedia Britannica (see article in Britannica CD 99: The History of Ancient Mesopotamia: Mesopotamia to the end of the: THE NEO-ASSYRIAN EMPIRE (746-609): Decline of the Assyrian empire). Here it describes how the Assyrian empire, after becoming weakened through civil war, fell to the combined forces of the Medes and the Babylonians, finally being extinguished in 609 BC. In this final battle, the Assyrians and the Egyptians fought side-by-side. Prior to being conquered by the Medes and Babylonians, the Egyptians fought against Judah – and Judah lost. This is the battle where Josiah was killed. The chronology of Judah places this event in 608 BC – but that is close enough to 609 BC when a 1 year margin of error is assumed." (BibleWorldHistory)


The very name Mystery Babylon the Great implies that this adulterous nation will have many of the same qualities and characteristics of ancient Babylon. Israel became a nation in 1948. 70 years from this would be 2018. Notice, Jeremiah 29:10-14 uses terminology which has previously been used to describe the tribulation-era regathering of both kingdom's of Israel... "I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you", meaning that this is also talking about the great regathering of both kingdoms that happens during the tribulation. This passage is stating that when Mystery Babylon the Great's 70 years are complete then the regathering will begin. Israel was founded in 1948. 70 years from that date would be 2018! Obviously this corresponds to the 2017-2018 date that we came to earlier using the more accurate 60 year Babylonian captivity.

more...
http://johnthewitness.wordpress.com/201 ... e-vatican/

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

Welcome to TIU, John.

And what purpose would it serve for the Jews to be regathered, when God destroyed Jerusalem, the Temple sacrificial system, and the Sanhedrin in 70AD? And the notion of a seven-year tribulation is dispensationalist heresy.

[Johnthewitness]

The regathering will be of all Israel not only Jews. All Jews are Israelites, not all Israelites are Jews. Most Israelites, in fact, are not Jews. The word "Jew" is derived from "Judah." The designation "Jew" is a term that is used to refer to the individual tribe of Judah.  The term "Jew" was also used to describe the tribes who made up the southern kingdom of Judah.  Only the tribes that made up the kingdom of Judah were "Jewish" by kingdom. Also, in a religious sense, since "Judaism" only became a term used to describe the religion of the kingdom of Judah after the 10 northern tribes of the kingdom of Israel had been taken captive by the Assyrians, the 10 northern tribes have never been "Jewish" in a religious sense either. The 10 northern tribes of Israel are not Jews by race, tribe or kingdom.  Since their division, Judah and Israel have even fought wars against each other (II Kings 16:5-6.)

God has not cast away his people (Romans 11) God always lets destruction happen to the Israelites when they disobey him. When they were enslaved midans, moabites, philistines, and the Assyrians etc God didn't totally abandon them. For example the northern 10 tribes of Israel (the white European people or the lost tribes) were disowned (Hosea 1:2-10) until Jesus came (Matthew 10:5-6, Matthew 15-24.)

Peace and thanks I've been a lurker here for quite some time.

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

But regathering the physical Israelites is useless under the New Covenant. The New Covenant is all-encompassing. It stretches out to all corners of the earth. The Israelites, as a people of God, served as a foreshadowing of God eventually making all nations and tongues His people. It is important, as Christians, not to regress to the Law and to thinking that the temporal promises to fleshly Israel continue on. Jesus put that asunder 2,000-plus years ago. The Temple was torn in two.The New Covenant is for all peoples, with the promises to physical Israel—as a foreshadowing—now bestowed to all who follow Christ.

The Jews hate the fact that their temporal prominence in God's eyes thousands of years ago was only a means to an end. That is why they wrote the Talmud,because they could see, through the anti-Judaic prophets, that there would come an age of grace without the Law and that this age of Grace would extend to all peoples. They, in defiance of the God, still carry on the now non-existent promises of God they think they are entitled to. Now, the only possible way by which Jews may receive the promise is through the Son—and only the Son.

I am not sure what kind of eschatology you are espousing here, but it sounds like Christian Identity, which is utter heresy.

[Christopher Marlowe]

The regathering will be of all Israel not only Jews. All Jews are Israelites, not all Israelites are Jews. Most Israelites, in fact, are not Jews. The word "Jew" is derived from "Judah." The designation "Jew" is a term that is used to refer to the individual tribe of Judah.  The term "Jew" was also used to describe the tribes who made up the southern kingdom of Judah.  Only the tribes that made up the kingdom of Judah were "Jewish" by kingdom. Also, in a religious sense, since "Judaism" only became a term used to describe the religion of the kingdom of Judah after the 10 northern tribes of the kingdom of Israel had been taken captive by the Assyrians, the 10 northern tribes have never been "Jewish" in a religious sense either. The 10 northern tribes of Israel are not Jews by race, tribe or kingdom.  Since their division, Judah and Israel have even fought wars against each other (II Kings 16:5-6.)

God has not cast away his people (Romans 11) God always lets destruction happen to the Israelites when they disobey him. When they were enslaved midans, moabites, philistines, and the Assyrians etc God didn't totally abandon them. For example the northern 10 tribes of Israel (the white European people or the lost tribes) were disowned (Hosea 1:2-10) until Jesus came (Matthew 10:5-6, Matthew 15-24.)

Peace and thanks I've been a lurker here for quite some time.

Here is Romans 11:

I say then: Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. [2] God hath not cast away his people, which he foreknew. Know you not what the scripture saith of Elias; how he calleth on God against Israel? [3] Lord, they have slain thy prophets, they have dug down thy altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. [4] But what saith the divine answer to him? I have left me seven thousand men, that have not bowed their knees to Baal. [5] Even so then at this present time also, there is a remnant saved according to the election of grace.

[4] Seven thousand: This is very ill alleged by some, against the perpetual visibility of the church of Christ; the more, because however the number of the faithful might be abridged by the persecution of Jezabel in the kingdom of the ten tribes, the church was at the same time in a most flourishing condition (under Asa and Josaphat) in the kingdom of Judah.

[6] And if by grace, it is not now by works: otherwise grace is no more grace. [7] What then? That which Israel sought, he hath not obtained: but the election hath obtained it; and the rest have been blinded. [8] As it is written: God hath given them the spirit of insensibility; eyes that they should not see; and ears that they should not hear, until this present day. [9] And David saith: Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompense unto them. [10] Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see: and bow down their back always.

[6] It is not now by works: If salvation were to come by works, done by nature, without faith and grace, salvation would not be a grace or favour, but a debt; but such dead works are indeed of no value in the sight of God towards salvation. It is not the same with regard to works done with, and by, God's grace; for to such works as these, he has promised eternal salvation.

[8] God hath given them: Not by his working or acting in them; but by his permission, and by withdrawing his grace in punishment of their obstinacy.

[11] I say then, have they so stumbled, that they should fall? God forbid. But by their offence, salvation is come to the Gentiles, that they may be emulous of them. [12] Now if the offence of them be the riches of the world, and the diminution of them, the riches of the Gentiles; how much more the fulness of them? [13] For I say to you, Gentiles: as long indeed as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I will honour my ministry, [14] If, by any means, I may provoke to emulation them who are my flesh, and may save some of them. [15] For if the loss of them be the reconciliation of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

[11] That they should fall: The nation of the Jews is not absolutely and without remedy cast off for ever; but in part only, (many thousands of them having been at first converted,) and for a time; which fall of theirs, God has been pleased to turn to the good of the Gentiles.

[16] For if the firstfruit be holy, so is the lump also: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. [17] And if some of the branches be broken, and thou, being a wild olive, art ingrafted in them, and art made partaker of the root, and of the fatness of the olive tree, [18] Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. [19] Thou wilt say then: The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. [20] Well: because of unbelief they were broken off. But thou standest by faith: be not highminded, but fear.

[20] Thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: We see here that he who standeth by faith may fall from it; and therefore must live in fear, and not in the vain presumption and security of modern sectaries.

[21] For if God hath not spared the natural branches, fear lest perhaps he also spare not thee. [22] See then the goodness and the severity of God: towards them indeed that are fallen, the severity; but towards thee, the goodness of God, if thou abide in goodness, otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. [23] And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. [24] For if thou wert cut out of the wild olive tree, which is natural to thee; and, contrary to nature, were grafted into the good olive tree; how much more shall they that are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? [25] For I would not have you ignorant, brethren, of this mystery, (lest you should be wise in your own conceits), that blindness in part has happened in Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles should come in.

[22] Otherwise thou also shalt be cut off: The Gentiles are here admonished not to be proud, nor to glory against the Jews: but to take occasion rather from their fall to fear and to be humble, lest they be cast off. Not that the whole church of Christ can ever fall from him; having been secured by so many divine promises in holy writ; but that each one in particular may fall; and therefore all in general are to be admonished to beware of that, which may happen to any one in particular.

[26] And so all Israel should be saved, as it is written: There shall come out of Sion, he that shall deliver, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob. [27] And this is to them my covenant: when I shall take away their sins. [28] As concerning the gospel, indeed, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are most dear for the sake of the fathers. [29] For the gifts and the calling of God are without repentance. [30] For as you also in times past did not believe God, but now have obtained mercy, through their unbelief;

[29] Are without repentance: his repenting himself of them; for the promises of God are unchangeable, nor can he repent of conferring his gifts....

So there is a remnant to be saved.  But see Revelation 2:8

And to the angel of the church of Smyrna write: These things saith the First and the Last, who was dead, and is alive: [9] I know thy tribulation and thy poverty, but thou art rich: and thou art blasphemed by them that say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. [10] Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer. Behold, the devil will cast some of you into prison that you may be tried: and you shall have tribulation ten days. Be thou faithful until death: and I will give thee the crown of life.

Remember that the people of Judah were taken into captivity into Babylon, but when they returned the land of Judah had been taken over by the Edomites.  Those returning from captivity intermarried with the Edomites.  The Herodians, for example, were Edomites.  

Also the religion that is practiced by the Jews is Talmudic. That religion was fashioned AFTER Jesus. Here is snippet of a review of E Michael Jones' book, The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit:

JRS is characterised by calm discussion of the issues and its concise definition of terms, in particular the "Jew" as one who rejects Jesus Christ as the Messiah and your balance in placing this definition within the context of the seemingly endless debate about who the Jews are. In so doing, you simultaneously demolish the myth that the Jews of the Old Testament and the Jews of today are one and the same people, something which I never previously appreciated. I never understood the role of the Talmud in codifying the deliberations of the rabbinical debating society that Judaism as a man-made ideology became after the destruction of the Temple in AD70.
...
Taken on their own, however, I think that your chapters on the Second Vatican Council are well worth the price of the book all by themselves. You decisively prove that Vatican II was a battle over whose view of Jewish identity would become normative in the modern era in Church and world – that of the Catholic Church which had traditionally taught that to be a Jew was to be a rejecter of Christ or that of modernity which hails race as the new religion and correspondingly and exclusively identifies Jewishness in terms of blood, race and DNA, the very outlook denounced by Jesus himself in St John's Gospel.

Added together: Edomites, synagogue of satan, a different religion, and a race-based rather than faith-based conception of Jew, it doesn't make sense to assume that a person is an Israelite just because he calls himself a Jew.  There is a remnant that will be saved, but I don't know if that is a big remnant or a little remnant.  Only God knows.

[Michael K.]

What I hear in all of this talk about the regathering of Israel in 2018 is propaganda for the Antichrist.  Revelation indicates that the destruction of the Great Harlot occurs at the hands of the Antichrist, supported by ten kings.

Apparently the ancient Hebrews counted portions of a year as one year, with this acknowledged then the 2018 date appears to be valid. Also it does not necessarily need to be 2018. As the time that God will end his judgment upon Israel (2017) does not necessarily need to be the exact year that Mystery Babylon the Great will be destroyed (2018).

It also seems apparent once again that fleshy interpretations of spiritual things lead directly to the sort of apostasy which supports the Antichrist coming from the north as conquering "King of Israel."

The regathering will be of all Israel not only Jews. All Jews are Israelites, not all Israelites are Jews...The 10 northern tribes of Israel are not Jews by race, tribe or kingdom. Since their division, Judah and Israel have even fought wars against each other (II Kings 16:5-6.)

Johnthewitness, I mean this in all sincerity:  you are going astray majorly.  Pretty soon the Antichrist (who will be an Israelite by race) will destroy the Great Harlot and be coronated as Holy Roman Emperor in Jeruasalem.  It sounds like you are getting ready to honor him.  You will lose your soul in the process.  You are coming to a Talmudic understanding of Scripture devoid of the true keys to understanding.  

Read the words of Christ which are THE GOSPELS, in them and ONLY in them will you find the right understanding.  And if you don't understand what Jesus Christ is saying, read the Epistles - the rest of the New Testament.  And if that fails to make it clear, read St. Gregory the theologian and St. Basil the Great.

 The Bible is like the Garden of Eden, containing both the Tree of Life, and the Tree of Knowledge which brings DEATH.  Starting from the text-standing-alone-as-God's-divine-presence position is the same approach that took out the Chosen, and will lead to a similar outcome.