Charlie Giuliani is one the few who has it nailed

[blueocean]

It seems phishna got 'nailed' by Russel Pine, and now he tries to spread his 'nailing' memes.    :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[phishna]

so far you have not discussed my presentation, you just say "it's wrong" and do not offer an argument for your position:

It seems phishna got 'nailed' by Russel Pine, and now he tries to spread his 'nailing' memes.    :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

http://zen-haven.dk/the-preacher-hood-of-wrongness/

Posted by: Zen Haven

The Preacher Hood of Wrongness

"Do you know people who are wrongness Preachers? Preachers of being wrong.

Why Preachers? Because it becomes their religion.

It may be in a workplace or in the family and in these times: on the Internet.

The backstabbing "holy" sword.

The paparazzi mindset. Very close to the reptillian mindset.

Spooky shit.

I'm talking about people who constantly proclaim you to be wrong."

[phishna]

This forum discusses one main thing, Jewish power and control of the world examining it from every aspect.  What I can't find on TIU is how Christianity empowers the Jews.  This must be discussed.



Christianity is not good, in fact I will demonstrate that it is the primary thing killing us.  Regardless of the intention of the creators of Christianity, Christianity empowers the Jews to rule.  Christianity is the cause of the sheeple syndrome, apathetic behavior toward massive corruption; in fact Christians are so into obeying authority they often support the tyrant like GWB and his terror war.  Many Christian soldiers volunteered for Iraq, they absolutely refuse to see 911 as an inside job, a false flag by Israel.    Christians believe that Jews are god's chosen, they support Israel no matter what.



A Christian is trained to respect and not question authority because they are taught that "god" put those in power over us.  This mass lunacy empowers corruption, and it is the Jews in power who have corrupted America and her principles.  In a very real sense Christianity destroyed America.

Christians pray to the Jew war god:


What if the Jew god is myth, what if Jehovah is a fictional character?  Then does not obedience becomes subservience to the Jew?  Do you think it's possible that the Rabbis invented Jehovah in order to get political power?  If the Jews rule then does not obeying authority make you a Jew whore?

[Christopher Marlowe]

Christians believe that Jews are god's chosen, they support Israel no matter what.

That is not true. Christians believe that Christians are God's chosen people; We believe that God's kingdom is available to anyone who accepts Jesus as his savior.

Christian zionists believe that Jews are God's chosen, but this is heresy.  This Christian-zionist heresy is a relatively new invention. The Holy Bible teaches that Christians are not under the Old Covenant.  The Old Covenant was ended when Christ died on the Cross: The veil of the Holy of Holies, the most sacred part of the Temple, was torn from top to bottom.  

Gal 2:16-21; But knowing that man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ; we also believe in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. [17] But if while we seek to be justified in Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners; is Christ then the minister of sin? God forbid. [18] For if I build up again the things which I have destroyed, I make myself a prevaricator. [19] For I, through the law, am dead to the law, that I may live to God: with Christ I am nailed to the cross. [20] And I live, now not I; but Christ liveth in me. And that I live now in the flesh: I live in the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and delivered himself for me.

[21] I cast not away the grace of God. For if justice be by the law, then Christ died in vain.

If justice be by the law, then Christ died in vain: That makes it very clear that people who find justification in Christ cannot find justification in the law.  Nor can they claim that Jews are justified by the law, as that would return a similar result.  

As for those who claim to be Christian-zionists, and who say that the Jews are the chosen people, they are lost in ignorance.  Of course people are always saying that they believe in one thing and then showing that they don't understand what it is that they claim to belive; e.g. people who call themselves "vegetarians" and yet eat only chicken and fish.  A vegetarian does not eat meat.  This fact is not changed by those people who don't understand what "vegetarian" means. The word shows what it means. (The same can be said for people who support fag marriage.  The word "matrimony" literally means to enter into a state of motherhood. So the word shows that it is between a man and a woman.  Someone who supports fag marriage doesn't change the meaning of the word, but rather shows that he doesn't know what the word means.)  

This same lie about Christians is why Giuliani does not have it nailed. Giuliani, in his hatred of Christians, is just promoting another Jewish lie. Jews want to pervert the Christian faith because the Christian faith is opposed to what they teach.

Jesus Christ opposed the pharisees and He challenged the Jewish power structure and that is why they wanted to kill Him.  People who promote this Jewish lie, Christian-zionism, that is in actuality heretical and antithetical to the Gospels, are really supporting the Jews.

[blueocean]

phishna wrote:

so far you have not discussed my presentation, you just say "it's wrong" and do not offer an argument for your position:

You got done for by Russel Pine aka Jordan Maxwell, the funny thing is your little presentation got debunked before you wrote it!  Chris White and many others debunked that jew video zeitgeist, as well as that serial liar Jordan "IT"S THE HANSEATIC LEAGUE" Maxwell.


You are so double minded that first you use this site http://www.666blacksun.org/satanic-nati ... h-himmler/    ,


as reference and then when the heat is put on you, you backtrack about you somehow not being a satanist.  Seeing the number of posts that you did so far and how you jumped on this single issue topic is very suspect.  Normally I couldn't care less about this particular subject, but when I see memetic whores like you spreading your 'nailing' memes like a venerial disease, a response is necesseray to stop the disease.


Funny also that you used the battleship picture in one of your posts to add visual strength to your argument, when this movie is now out in the cinemas, it  seems mind control is a bitch  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:       stop serving gravy please

[sullivan]

It seems phishna got 'nailed' by Russel Pine, and now he tries to spread his 'nailing' memes.    :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

It seems blueocean doesn't have any argument, and instead resorts to repeating the same ad-hominem ad-nauseum.

[sullivan]

The Holy Bible teaches that Christians are not under the Old Covenant.

So that would be why in Matthew 5:17 Jesus is reputed to have said "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfil it."

[blueocean]

Sullivan wrote:

blueocean wrote:It seems phishna got 'nailed' by Russel Pine, and now he tries to spread his 'nailing' memes.

It seems blueocean doesn't have any argument, and instead resorts to repeating the same ad-hominem ad-nauseum.

Mr Sullivan, apparently you did NOT read my post my response to phisna is below, AGAIN. pls read this time.


You got done for by Russel Pine aka Jordan Maxwell, the funny thing is your little presentation got debunked before you wrote it! Chris White and many others debunked that jew video zeitgeist, as well as that serial liar Jordan "IT"S THE HANSEATIC LEAGUE" Maxwell.


Basically what I write here is that Jordan Maxwell is a serial liair and that also goes for most of his astrotheolgy stuff, and that he and people like michael Tsarion are bullshit artists, debunked already two or three years ago, but maybe you missed that. fitzpatrick posted a youtube video which has many debunking arguments for the astrotheology part.

But my main focus here is that the persons Maxwell and Tsarion themselves have been exposed as the liars that they are, or did you miss that?

[sullivan]

But my main focus here is that the persons Maxwell and Tsarion themselves have been exposed as the liars that they are, or did you miss that?

Yes, I missed that, sorry. I have no time for Tsarion (who is no more Irish than I am Chinese) and Maxwell either, just as I have no time for any mythology.

[blueocean]

say no to astromytholgy  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


astromytholgy basically is the jew hollywood mind control of that time, and they tried to fit everything into that mytholgy mind control, even legimate opposition, such as trying to fit jesus into the mithra mytholgy etc. etc.

[Christopher Marlowe]

The Holy Bible teaches that Christians are not under the Old Covenant.

So that would be why in Matthew 5:17 Jesus is reputed to have said "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to [fulfill] it."

That is an excellent question. Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the Old Covenant, and so that Covenant is no longer in effect.  Jesus came to fulfill the old covenant and He accomplished all He set out to do:

Jn 17:4 - I have glorified thee on the earth; I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

The difference between abolishing a covenant and fulfilling it can be seen in the example of a contract.  [I am not arguing that these two are exactly the same, but the comparison will suffice.] Let's say that you have a contract with a king: you promise to obey the king; the king promises to give you a pearl of great price. One day a representative of the king shows up, and he ABOLISHES the contract; he tears it up.

Compare that to a representative showing up one day with a giant pearl.  In this example we can see that the representative of the king has FULFILLED the contract.  

Jesus Himself is the fulfillment of the Old Covenant.  Anyone who claims to be a Jew could go to God and say, "Hey, I did everything that the covenant required.  Why don't you hold up your end?"
And God, the Father, would say: "I have given you my Son. He is everything you could ever need or want.  What is your problem?"  

The ending of the Old Covenant can be seen over and over in the Bible: the veil of the Holy of Holies was torn from top to bottom at the very instant of Jesus' death on the Cross. It couldn't have been made more clear that God had ended the old form of worship.  

Another physical example of this was given when Jesus cursed the fig tree.  The fig tree was symbolic of the old temple worship, as can be seen by the fact that the story of the fig tree bookends the description of Jesus casting the money lenders out of the temple.

Mark 11:13-20 - And when he had seen afar off a fig tree having leaves, he came if perhaps he might find any thing on it. And when he was come to it, he found nothing but leaves. For it was not the time for figs. [14] And answering he said to it: May no man hereafter eat fruit of thee any more for ever. And his disciples heard it. [15] And they came to Jerusalem. And when he was entered into the temple, he began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the chairs of them that sold doves.

[16] And he suffered not that any man should carry a vessel through the temple; [17] And he taught, saying to them: Is it not written, My house shall be called the house of prayer to all nations? But you have made it a den of thieves. [18] Which when the chief priests and the scribes had heard, they sought how they might destroy him. For they feared him, because the whole multitude was in admiration at his doctrine. [19] And when evening was come, he went forth out of the city. [20] And when they passed by in the morning they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.

Jesus also showed that the New Temple would be His Own Body:

John 2:19 - Jesus answered, and said to them: Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

If that is not proof enough, St. Paul explains the New Covenant replacing the old one several times.  

Know you not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) that the law hath dominion over a man, as long as it liveth? [2] For the woman that hath an husband, whilst her husband liveth is bound to the law. But if her husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. [3] Therefore, whilst her husband liveth, she shall be called an adulteress, if she be with another man: but if her husband be dead, she is delivered from the law of her husband; so that she is not an adulteress, if she be with another man. [4] Therefore, my brethren, you also are become dead to the law, by the body of Christ; that you may belong to another, who is risen again from the dead, that we may bring forth fruit to God. [5] For when we were in the flesh, the passions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members, to bring forth fruit unto death.

[1] As long as it liveth: or, as long as he liveth.

[6] But now we are loosed from the law of death, wherein we were detained; so that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Heb 8:6-13 - But now he hath obtained a better ministry, by how much also he is a mediator of a better testament, which is established on better promises. 7 For if that former had been faultless, there should not indeed a place have been sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith: Behold, the days shall come, saith the Lord: and I will perfect unto the house of Israel, and unto the house of Juda, a new testament:
9 Not according to the testament which I made to their fathers, on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt: because they continued not in my testament: and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the testament which I will make to the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord: I will give my laws into their mind, and in their heart will I write them: and I will be their God, and they shall be my people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me from the least to the greatest of them: 12 Because I will be merciful to their iniquities, and their sins I will remember no more.  Now in saying a new, he hath made the former old. And that which decayeth and groweth old, is near its end.

For a Christian, it is very clear that the Old Covenant is no longer in effect. We Christians live under a New Covenant established by Jesus Christ.  People who want to live under the Old Covenant are probably motivated by greed: they want to have a lot of money, like the Jews.  These Christian-zionists are ignoring the obvious meaning of the Gospel.

[sullivan]

So that would be why in Matthew 5:17 Jesus is reputed to have said "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to [fulfill] it."

That is an excellent question. Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the Old Covenant, and so that Covenant is no longer in effect.  Jesus came to fulfill the old covenant and He accomplished all He set out to do:

I suspected that someone would give me a supersessionist answer  

Unfortunately, that interpretation is somewhat undermined by the passages that follows:

Matthew 5:18 - For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Apart from Isaiah 65:17..

For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.

...the only reference to the passing of heaven and earth I can find is in Revelation 21:1

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

The Book of Revelation is generally accepted among Christians to be a book of epistolary/prophecy. In this passage, John witnessed the future passing away of the first earth. This means that the old law had yet to be done away with, but was part of God's future plans.  The quote from Matthew 5:18 "till all be fulfilled" also suggests a reference to the second coming of Jesus, i.e. something that has yet to happen.

One further observation on the claim that the old covenant is superceded...  This is not quite the impression given by Hebrews 8:13...

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

There is a big difference between something that decays or waxes and something that has ended!

[sullivan]

say no to astromytholgy  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

That is exactly what I have done

[Christopher Marlowe]

So that would be why in Matthew 5:17 Jesus is reputed to have said "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to [fulfill] it."

That is an excellent question. Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the Old Covenant, and so that Covenant is no longer in effect.  Jesus came to fulfill the old covenant and He accomplished all He set out to do:

I suspected that someone would give me a supersessionist answer  

Unfortunately, that interpretation is somewhat undermined by the passages that follows:

Matthew 5:18 - For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

till all be fulfilled.

I don't understand where you refuted this point.

If Jesus says that no jots or tittles will pass from the law until it has been fulfilled;
and Jesus says that He came to fulfill the law;
and Jesus says that He accomplished all that he set out to do;
then it would seem that the law has been fulfilled. QED  

Example
1. Even if I you threaten me with death, I won't change the name of this Church until we get a new building.
2. We get a new building.
3. I change the name of the church.  

I suppose that someone can claim that this statement means that the law is valid UNLESS you accept Jesus' New Covenant.  In that case, the person arguing for the validity of the Old Covenant is doing so CONTRARY to Jesus.  In other words, the person arguing for the validity of the Old Covenant is a Jew.  

And strangely enough, this person would be RELYING ON JESUS' WORD to prove that Jesus did not fulfill the law?!?!  

Either way, a Christian believes that Jesus fulfilled the law, and is therefore under the New Covenant.  If Giuliani believes that the old covenant is valid, then Giuliani is a Jew. If he hates Jesus so much that he wants to argue in favor of the Old Covenant, then he is either a fool or a Jew, or a foolish Jew.  

Also, you take one quote that I used to show that the law was old, and tried to use that in support of saying that the law was still valid.  This despite numerous quotes that show that St. Paul was saying that the law was invalid.

One further observation on the claim that the old covenant is superceded...  This is not quite the impression given by Hebrews 8:13...

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

That is taken from the same quote where St. Paul is speaking of the law in the past tense:

But now he hath obtained a better ministry, by how much also he is a mediator of a better testament, which is established on better promises. 7 For if that former had been faultless, there should not indeed a place have been sought for a second.

If I say a dozen times that the law is invalid, and I also say that it is old, then are those statements in contradiction?  Hardly.  The natural meaning is that the law is old and it is also invalid.

you also are become dead to the law, by the body of Christ;

But now we are loosed from the law of death,

man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ; we also believe in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

For if justice be by the law, then Christ died in vain.

You're not quote-mining, are you Sullivan?

This whole Giuliani anti-Christ argument keeps coming back to the same story: the people who argue for the validity of the old covenant are either Jews or Christian-zionists. Then Giuliani relies on their arguments, and so do his followers. And they all ignore the fact that St. Paul and Jesus plainly show that there is a New Covenant that REPLACED the Old Covenant.  

Stand fast, and be not held again under the yoke of bondage. [2] Behold, I Paul tell you, that if you be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. [3] And I testify again to every man circumcising himself, that he is a debtor to the whole law. [4] You are made void of Christ, you who are justified in the law: you are fallen from grace. [5] For we in spirit, by faith, wait for the hope of justice.

[6] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision: but faith that worketh by charity. [Galatians 5:6] [Latin] [7] You did run well, who hath hindered you, that you should not obey the truth? [8] This persuasion is not from him that calleth you. [9] A little leaven corrupteth the whole lump. [10] I have confidence in you in the Lord: that you will not be of another mind: but he that troubleth you, shall bear the judgment, whosoever he be.

[11] And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? Then is the scandal of the cross made void. [12] I would they were even cut off, who trouble you. [13] For you, brethren, have been called unto liberty: only make not liberty an occasion to the flesh, but by charity of the spirit serve one another. [14] For all the law is fulfilled in one word: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [15] But if you bite and devour one another; take heed you be not consumed one of another.

The Catholic Church always taught (prior to Vatican II) that the Old Covenant was invalid.  Listen to Pope Pius XII:

And first of all, by the death of our Redeemer, the New Testament took the place of the Old Law which had been abolished; then the Law of Christ together with its mysteries, enactments, institutions, and sacred rites was ratified for the whole world in the blood of Jesus Christ. For, while our Divine Savior was preaching in a restricted area - He was not sent but to the sheep that were lost of the House of Israel [30] - the Law and the Gospel were together in force; [31] but on the gibbet of His death Jesus made void the Law with its decrees [32] fastened the handwriting of the Old Testament to the Cross, [33] establishing the New Testament in His blood shed for the whole human race.[34] "To such an extent, then," says St. Leo the Great, speaking of the Cross of our Lord, "was there effected a transfer from the Law to the Gospel, from the Synagogue to the Church, from the many sacrifices to one Victim, that, as Our Lord expired, that mystical veil which shut off the innermost part of the temple and its sacred secret was rent violently from top to bottom." [35]

30. On the Cross then the Old Law died, soon to be buried and to be a bearer of death, [36] in order to give way to the New Testament of which Christ had chosen the Apostles as qualified ministers; [37] and although He had been constituted the Head of the whole human family in the womb of the Blessed Virgin, it is by the power of the Cross that our Savior exercises fully the office itself of Head of His Church. "For it was through His triumph on the Cross," according to the teaching of the Angelic and Common Doctor, "that He won power and dominion over the gentiles";[38] by that same victory He increased the immense treasure of graces, which, as He reigns in glory in heaven, He lavishes continually on His mortal members; it was by His blood shed on the Cross that God's anger was averted and that all the heavenly gifts, especially the spiritual graces of the New and Eternal Testament, could then flow from the fountains of our Savior for the salvation of men, of the faithful above all; it was on the tree of the Cross, finally, that He entered into possession of His Church, that is, of all the members of His Mystical Body; for they would not have been untied to this Mystical Body through the waters of Baptism except by the salutary virtue of the Cross, by which they had been already brought under the complete sway of Christ.

Why do people hate Jesus so much that they will take up a Jewish argument in order to fight against Christians?

You cannot find St. Paul claiming that the law is valid.  You needn't go around to Revelations and naming arguments "supersessionist".  That is making things more difficult than they need to be. The Truth is plainly revealed in the Holy Bible, and only contrived Jewish arguments can be made in favor of the Old Covenant.

[phishna]

"The Holy Bible teaches that Christians are not under the Old Covenant.

That is an excellent question. Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the Old Covenant, and so that Covenant is no longer in effect.  

For a Christian, it is very clear that the Old Covenant is no longer in effect. We Christians live under a New Covenant established by Jesus Christ."  

Dude, there are NO COVENANTS!  It is all a great big lie.  The Jews are insane crazy people who think that they have made a contract with "god".  The Jews are thieves and liars who can not even trust their own invented god so they made up a covenant with him.  What's funny is that a Jew would make a contract with god.  Doesn't that sound exactly like something a Jew would do?  By the looks at Jew behavior I would clearly say their actual pact is with evil.

Even worse logic is that the Jews claim to represent the creator god and then are the biggest abusers of that creation, murdering every living thing.  You have to to be deluded or spellbound or insane if you think the Jews represent the creator.  The Jews who are criminals covering up their actions with a big invisibility cloak of Biblical garbage so that the goyim can't see them for what they are.  As the Jews lie, steal, rape, destroy entire nations the SPELLBOUND gentile peoples stand in bewilderment.  The Jews are the ultimate parasite, their entire culture is one of deception, they install their memes in your brain so that you can no longer see reality.



You really need to stop reading and quoting the Bible, there is no Jesus, there is absolutely no covenant, old or new.  There is no salvation through a Jew savior, there is no angry judging god, no hell, and no Satan.  But there is a tribe of thieves destroying the planet.

[phishna]

Christians believe that Jews are god's chosen, they support Israel no matter what.

That is not true. Christians believe that Christians are God's chosen people; We believe that God's kingdom is available to anyone who accepts Jesus as his savior.

This same lie about Christians is why Giuliani does not have it nailed. Giuliani, in his hatred of Christians, is just promoting another Jewish lie. Jews want to pervert the Christian faith because the Christian faith is opposed to what they teach.

Giuliani doesn't hate Christians or Jesus, he doesn't agree with your myth, he uses reason and logic to argue his position, you are using slander and bearing false witness for yours.  I've heard him many times say (paraphrasing): "how could anyone disagree with Jesus message of brotherly love?"  The reason Giuliani has it nailed is because he has figured out the real problem, that Christianity is Judaism for gentiles, that the Bible is a Jewish propaganda document.  

Everytime you quote the Bible or use it for the basis of your argument you have aided and abetted the Jew enemy.

[Wimpy]

Everytime you quote the Bible or use it for the basis of your argument you have aided and abetted the Jew enemy.

Phishna

Harsh conclusion and quite a specific charge.  Now it's incumbent upon you to prove "every time".

CM is certainly not a christian Zionist and his breadth, understanding and interpretation of the Bible is extremely thorough.  I've learned much from reading his posts and humbly respect his knowledge and faith.  He has earned my respect and I am astonished that he hasn't earned yours.

______________________________________
I will pay you Tuesday for a Hamburger today.

[Christopher Marlowe]

"The Holy Bible teaches that Christians are not under the Old Covenant.

That is an excellent question. Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the Old Covenant, and so that Covenant is no longer in effect.  

For a Christian, it is very clear that the Old Covenant is no longer in effect. We Christians live under a New Covenant established by Jesus Christ."  

Dude, there are NO COVENANTS!  It is all a great big lie.  The Jews are insane crazy people who think that they have made a contract with "god".  The Jews are thieves and liars who can not even trust their own invented god so they made up a covenant with him.  What's funny is that a Jew would make a contract with god.  Doesn't that sound exactly like something a Jew would do?  By the looks at Jew behavior I would clearly say their actual pact is with evil.

Dude, there are covenants all over the place.  Go down to your country registrar, and check out all the covenants that apply to the properties where you live, work and shop. Those covenants have legal effect and can be used to stop a person from making changes to their property.  If I had an attorney tell me there are no covenants, I would get a new attorney because this one would get me into trouble.

I agree that the criminal Jewish cabal is full of thieves and liars, but it does not follow that there is no God. If a child fibs and says that he knows Michael Jordan, does that mean that Michael Jordan doesn't exist?  And suppose a crooked Jewish man has a contract with Michael Jordan, does that mean that Michael Jordan is bad?

The of the major plot arcs of the old testament is how God established a covenant with the children of Israel, and how they continually failed to live up to that covenant. (Even as the covenant was being established, the people had fallen into sin and began worshiping a golden bull.) e.g. The people of Israel did not obey the covenant and sinned against God, and so Jeremiah prophesied that the people would be sent into exile for 70 years. The result is that God had said that He would establish a new covenant in His Son, Jesus Christ.

E Michael Jones says that the Jewish religion has been in rebellion against God from the time of the Cross. That would correspond to your feelings about the Jews being untrustworthy.  

St. Paul says that the purpose of the Old Covenant was to show the power of sin. And St. Paul describes sin as doing what we know to be wrong:

Rom 7:11-20; For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, seduced me, and by it killed me. [12] Wherefore the law indeed is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. [13] Was that then which is good, made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it may appear sin, by that which is good, wrought death in me; that sin, by the commandment, might become sinful above measure. [14] For we know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin.For that which I work, I understand not. For I do not that good which I will; but the evil which I hate, that I do.

NB: [13] That it may appear sin: viz. To be the monster it is, which is even capable to take occasion from that which is good, to work death.

NB: [15] I do not that good which I will: The apostle here describes the disorderly motions of passion and concupiscence; which oftentimes in us get the start of reason: and by means of which even good men suffer in the inferior appetite what their will abhors: and are much hindered in the accomplishment of the desires of their spirit and mind. But these evil motions, (though they are called the law of sin, because they come from original sin, and violently tempt and incline to sin,) as long as the will does not consent to them, are not sins, because they are not voluntary.

[16] If then I do that which I will not, I consent to the law, that it is good. [17] Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. [18] For I know that there dwelleth not in me, that is to say, in my flesh, that which is good. For to will, is present with me; but to accomplish that which is good, I find not. [19] For the good which I will, I do not; but the evil which I will not, that I do. [20] Now if I do that which I will not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Can you think of anyone who has never done that which he KNOWS to be wrong?  It is part of the human condition. People are weak. If I do what I know to be wrong, then I consent that there is a RIGHT/CORRECT behavior, i.e. the law, but I fail to do it.  I sin.  

In terms of a contract, this failure to do what was promised might amount to a breach. Similarly, if there is a covenant that runs with a given property, the owner of that property might find himself embroiled in a lawsuit for failing to live up to that covenant. People make legally enforceable promises in contracts and covenants, and then they fail, or their successors in interest fail to live up to those promises. No one will dispute this.  

If you were paying attention to what was being said, then you will note that I am in agreement that NO COVENANT currently exists between God and the Jews. It is the Christian position that Jesus already fulfilled the covenant. It is Giuliani who misrepresents the Christian position as that of the Christian-zionists, or the so called "Judeo-Christians" who are ignorant of the scriptures.  Giuliani supposedly speaks against the Jews, but then takes up their side and misrepresents what Christians believe, attempting to show some affinity between these two vastly different faiths.  
 

Even worse logic is that the Jews claim to represent the creator god and then are the biggest abusers of that creation, murdering every living thing.  You have to to be deluded or spellbound or insane if you think the Jews represent the creator.  The Jews who are criminals covering up their actions with a big invisibility cloak of Biblical garbage so that the goyim can't see them for what they are.  As the Jews lie, steal, rape, destroy entire nations the SPELLBOUND gentile peoples stand in bewilderment.  The Jews are the ultimate parasite, their entire culture is one of deception, they install their memes in your brain so that you can no longer see reality.

I am in total agreement with you here.  The Jews do not represent God, but rather they stand in opposition to God. As E Michael Jones points out, they killed the Logos, Jesus Christ, and thus stand in opposition to Creation.

Jewish memes are planted in movies, television and other media, and they are a distortion of reality.  This is THE BIG LIE that Hitler was referring to when he quoted Schopenhauer ("We see also from the two Roman authors how much the Jews were at all times and by all nations loathed and despised. This may be due partly to the fact that they were the only people on earth who did not credit man with any existence beyond this life and were, therefore, regarded as cattle, as the dregs of humanity, but as past masters at telling lies."see Parerga und Paralipomena, Vol II, trans by Payne, Oxford University Press, 2001, FN p 375)

You really need to stop reading and quoting the Bible, there is no Jesus, there is absolutely no covenant, old or new.  There is no salvation through a Jew savior, there is no angry judging god, no hell, and no Satan.  But there is a tribe of thieves destroying the planet.

You really need to read to Bible so that you can have a basic understanding of what you are talking about.  Also you should read up on covenants. Jesus Christ is the only way to Eternal Life, and you had better get to know Him before it is too late.  There is very definitely a Hell and a Heaven, and everyone will end up in the right place because God does not make mistakes.  

The tribe of thieves that is destroying the planet is very happy when Giuliani and you make misrepresentations about Jesus Christ because they hate Jesus. That is why they sought to kill Him. That is why they have been in rebellion against God for 2,000 years.  By fighting against Christ you are working for them.  You are making yourself their ally.

Giuliani doesn't hate Christians or Jesus, he doesn't agree with your myth, he uses reason and logic to argue his position, you are using slander and bearing false witness for yours.

Dude, you popped into the middle of an argument and you didn't pay any attention to the point that was being made. The issue being debated was whether Christianity is supportive of the old covenant of the Jews, and whether that covenant is still in effect.  In order to debate that question, you have to look into the Holy Bible and see what Christian beliefs are based upon. Do you see why that is reasonable and logical?  I couldn't use the Koran to show what a Hindu believes.  

So then I am in the middle of a debate with Sullivan, and you pop in and express your opinions without using any support or references.  And then you say that I am using slander and false witness? Whom did I slander? What did I say that was false? If you make an accusation, isn't it reasonable and logical to provide specific examples and then support them with provable facts?

I've heard him many times say (paraphrasing): "how could anyone disagree with Jesus message of brotherly love?" The reason Giuliani has it nailed is because he has figured out the real problem, that Christianity is Judaism for gentiles, that the Bible is a Jewish propaganda document.

We are back to the point that I was debating with Sullivan. I was of the position that Christianity is contrary to Judaism, and unlike you, I was providing proof of the Christian position by citing the text that represents the belief of Christians.  Isn't that logical and reasonable?  

Giuliani has not figured anything out, but rather he is giving a distorted representation of the Christian faith.  He is representing that false belief of Christian-zionism, or "Judeo-Christianity" as the real thing.  I have offered numerous supports from the Bible to show why this is false.  Isn't that logical and reasonable?  

What is illogical is to make a false claim about Christianity, and then when a person uses the Christian Book to show why this is false, to tell that person NOT TO QUOTE THE BIBLE.  How foolish is that?  How can a person claim anything about the Christian faith without being able to quote the Bible as proof?  Forcing a person into that situation is illogical and unreasonable.  

Everytime you quote the Bible or use it for the basis of your argument you have aided and abetted the Jew enemy.

Every time Giuliani misquotes the bible he has aided and abetted the Jewish enemy.  Every time you attack Jesus Christ, you are acting like your friends, the Jews, who also attack Jesus Christ in their holy book of garbage, the Talmud.

[phishna]

Everytime you quote the Bible or use it for the basis of your argument you have aided and abetted the Jew enemy.

Phishna

Harsh conclusion and quite a specific charge.  Now it's incumbent upon you to prove "every time".

CM is certainly not a christian Zionist and his breadth, understanding and interpretation of the Bible is extremely thorough.  I've learned much from reading his posts and humbly respect his knowledge and faith.  He has earned my respect and I am astonished that he hasn't earned yours.

Millions upon millions of people are dead because the Christian empower the Jews with their beliefs.  How many Iraqis, Afghanis, Palestinians killed, maimed or displaced by Israel?  How many American soldiers wounded and dead since Gulf War 1?  What about the thousands of depleted uranium birth defects?  Google "DU birth defects" and look at the horrific images.  

Any time anyone endorses anything Jew or Jewish you aid and abet the Jew killing machine.  Reading, memorizing, quoting the Bible gives power to the enemy, it legitimizes the enemy.  Jews did 911 and covered it up, they did Fukushima which is now looking like an extinction level event, google it.

CM may have sincere intentions but he knows not what he does by arguing in favor of the Bible.  The Bible is a Jew propaganda document that enlists the believer in the Jew cause and the grim joke is that Torah and Talmudic Jews detest Christians!  No matter how you slice or dice it, Christians are slaved to the Jew, they do the bidding of the Jew.  We all must overcome the evil tribe and to do so we must doff all ties to Jewish evrything including their so called holy books.  

How can anyone think that the Bible is "holy", what a sick joke, pure evil is done again and again by those who were spelled by that book.

[Christopher Marlowe]

CM is certainly not a christian Zionist and his breadth...

Thanks Wimpy! :up:
You have good breadth too!

Giuliani doesn't hate Christians or Jesus, he doesn't agree with your myth, he uses reason and logic to argue his position, you are using slander and bearing false witness for yours.

where's this reason and logic I hear so much about?  You don't reply to anything I write.  Is non sequitur part of your demonstration?

Now the Christians are responsible for the Iraq war and depleted uranium?  The Jews did 9/11...so it's the Christians' fault? You and Giuliani keep going to the same well: you take what the Jews do and blame it on the Christians. You know who does that?  Jews.  

I provided proof that true Christians stand up against the Jews. I quoted Pope Pius XII.  You can tell he was a Christian because his first name was "pope".  Any reasonable person would at least acknowledge that some Christians stand in opposition to Jews. And if that is the case, then a reasonable person would encourage all Christians that this is the proper position to take.  But no. Phishna would rather empower the Jews and join all the Christians with them.  

No matter how you slice or dice it, Christians are slaved to the Jew, they do the bidding of the Jew.

Dude, Phishna, go read "The Merchant of Venice" and tell us about how Christians are slaved to the Jew. Go look up all the Christian countries that kicked out the Jews, and then explain how the Jews planned that. Tell us all about a single, non-Christian country that kicked the Jews out.  

Call in to Giuliani's show and ask him how to answer these puzzlers.  Or just start in with another random bit of nonsense.

[phishna]

Giuliani doesn't hate Christians or Jesus, he doesn't agree with your myth, he uses reason and logic to argue his position, you are using slander and bearing false witness for yours.

where's this reason and logic I hear so much about?  You don't reply to anything I write.  Is non sequitur part of your demonstration?

No matter how you slice or dice it, Christians are slaved to the Jew, they do the bidding of the Jew.

Dude, Phishna, go read "The Merchant of Venice" and tell us about how Christians are slaved to the Jew. Go look up all the Christian countries that kicked out the Jews, and then explain how the Jews planned that. Tell us all about a single, non-Christian country that kicked the Jews out.  

Your replies are tediously long exposes of Biblical quotes then your interpretations.  What's the point of my engagement with you?  Anyone who uses the Bible as the basis of their argument is owned.  You don't get it!  What is in your head are Bible memes, what you are NOT doing is responding to my points with any understanding of what I am saying, you have your mind made up, you are certain that your interpretation of the Bible is correct.  What you can not see is that your source of truth is a propaganda document, it is NOT downloaded information from a creator god.

Christianity is completely encapsulated by Judaism:

I am saying very clearly that :  "No matter how you slice or dice it, Christians are slaved to the Jew, they do the bidding of the Jew."  Many of us are becoming aware of this truth, John Kaminski published our private email conversations on this very same topic:

http://johnkaminski.info/pages/the_next_chapter/three_sides_of_the_same_coin.htm
 
"Judiasm and Christianity are JOINED AT THE HIP SEAMLESSLY ALL THE WAY UP TO THE TOPS OF THEIR HEADS in an inoperable Siamese twin condition. The only way you can destroy Jews and Judiasm is to destroy Christianity. You cannot put the cart before the horse.

The Christian cannot divest himself of the influence of the Jew without throwing out the dogma of the Bible. If you rally around Christianity you circle the wagons around the Jew."

If you are a Christian then you are owned lock, stock, and barrel by the Jew.  The Jews give Christian churches tax free status so that their propaganda is spread far and wide.  I am not going to counter point by point your Biblical interpretations because I already know that the Bible is complete bull shit from cover to cover.  Take for instance your New Testament, there is no proof of Jesus being a real historical character but there is proof that all of Jesus characteristics from previous myth (you deny that reality), many of the Gospel writers names are fiction, the alleged date when the Gospels written fiction, the stories of miracles fiction, the god of the Jews fiction, the concept of an afterlife hell a fiction, the purported prophecy of Revelation is written after the fact.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... white.html

This is what happens to young men who are under the spell of Judeo-Christianity:

"Thank you Mr. President, I didn't need my leg anyways!"


Reading, believing, and quoting the Bible leads to this:

http://www.google.com/search?q=george+b ... 80&bih=668[/size]

[Christopher Marlowe]

Your replies are tediously long exposes of Biblical quotes then your interpretations. What's the point of my engagement with you?

That is the way logic and reason work. The way you debate goes like this: I say something in an attempt to respond to what you are saying, and you reply by changing the subject.  This reminds me of having arguments with my sister.  

Anyone who uses the Bible as the basis of their argument is owned. You don't get it!

Anyone who reads that crap you post is retarded.  Its author was just owned a couple of posts back, but you ignored that too.  You don't respond to what other people say.  You don't attempt to refute it.  You just change the subject and editorialize.  

What is in your head are Bible memes, what you are NOT doing is responding to my points with any understanding of what I am saying, you have your mind made up, you are certain that your interpretation of the Bible is correct.

You can read my mind? I am responding to what you are saying, point by point.  Go back and see for yourself.  And also you can notice how you do not do this, but rather change the point.  Like my sister.  

If my interpretation of the Bible is wrong, show why it is wrong.  Use logic and reason.  Remember how you love logic and reason?  Maybe you saw a movie about logic and reason on the Lifetime channel.  Or Oxygen.

What you can not see is that your source of truth is a propaganda document, it is NOT downloaded information from a creator god.

What you cannot see is that the Bible is the divinely inspired word of God.  You cannot see that the Catholic Faith is the most consistent and complete philosophy known to mankind.  You cannot see this because you have been propagandized by Jewish television that is anti-Christ.

Christianity is completely encapsulated by Judaism:

Wow! Someone welded a Cross to a pagan symbol! Everything's up to date in Kansas City. They gone about as fer as they can go. I guess if you can weld things together, they are philosophically the same.  QED.  

I am saying very clearly that : "No matter how you slice or dice it, Christians are slaved to the Jew, they do the bidding of the Jew."

That was where I challenged you to come up with any non-Christian countries that threw the Jews out.  You responded by changing the subject....I'm going to get you a subscription to McCall's.  

Many of us are becoming aware of this truth, John Kaminski published our private email conversations on this very same topic:

"Judiasm and Christianity are JOINED AT THE HIP SEAMLESSLY ALL THE WAY UP TO THE TOPS OF THEIR HEADS in an inoperable Siamese twin condition. The only way you can destroy Jews and Judiasm is to destroy Christianity. You cannot put the cart before the horse.

The Christian cannot divest himself of the influence of the Jew without throwing out the dogma of the Bible. If you rally around Christianity you circle the wagons around the Jew."

Do you or Kaminsky offer any proof of this? No.  This is just an assertion. I can make assertions too: Kaminsky whines too much.  When I listen to Kaminsky on DBS, I feel like somebody needs to open their back door and let their dog out.    

If you are a Christian then you are owned lock, stock, and barrel by the Jew. The Jews give Christian churches tax free status so that their propaganda is spread far and wide.

Why does the Jewish media relentlessly attack the Catholic Church and Christian values? Aren't they preventing the Church from spreading their propaganda?  

All religions have tax free status.  Even retarded new age religions. All that goofy crap you link to could have a tax free status. Scientology has a tax free status. The only reason Christian Churches have tax free status is because the Jews haven't figured out how to tax churches and keep their own temples tax free.  

I am not going to counter point by point your Biblical interpretations because I already know that the Bible is complete bull shit from cover to cover.

And because you don't know anything about the Bible.  Because you probably haven't read it cover to cover.

Take for instance your New Testament, there is no proof of Jesus being a real historical character but there is proof that all of Jesus characteristics from previous myth (you deny that reality),

You talk about me "deny[ing] that reality", and yet you haven't responded the the several posts showing that your zeitgeist BS is BS.  

Pay attention: Refuting something is not just saying the opposite.  You have to look at what is being said, and then show why that is wrong.  

e.g. Phishna says that I took his McCalls Magazine.
I refute this by offering that Phishna mislaid his magazine in the bathroom.  
I demonstrate this by pointing out that the latest issue of McCalls is lying on top of Phishna's curling iron on the sink in his bathroom.  

many of the Gospel writers names are fiction, the alleged date when the Gospels written fiction, the stories of miracles fiction, the god of the Jews fiction, the concept of an afterlife hell a fiction, the purported prophecy of Revelation is written after the fact.

And you offer proof of this how?  By linking to a gayish, Jewish, PBS site?  Posting a link is not proving anything.  You are never going to get through grad school with that sort of scholarship.  

The guy who wrote the article, L Michael White, did a lecture in 2005 on abortion and fagness, and how these are represented in the Bible. Those two abominations were clearly seen as wrong throughout the Christian world.  Only recently, under the Jewish influence,  have sellout "scholars" like White begun to muddy the waters.  The Galveston Daily News notes that,

White's appearance was sponsored by Temple B'nai Israel...
http://galvestondailynews.com/story.las ... c0015a0f89

So the source you linked to is proven to be sponsored by Jewish sources.  Why do you need to go to your Jewish-backed sources to prove your arguments against Christianity?  I think that kind of answers itself.

And then you go on to blame the Iraq War and depleted uranium on Christians.  Phishna, go look at "israel did 9/11: All the proof in the world".  That offers PROOF that israel was responsible for 9/11, not the Vatican. israel pushed for the Iraq war, not the Vatican. israel is the Jewish state, not a Christian state.  Why are you muddying the waters?  Why are you turning attention away from the Jewish perpetrators?

[GordZilla]

CM,

 Why bother with this guy? He hasn't been able to refute a single point I put forth in the 2nd post of this thread. He has NOTHING, nothing but an agenda. The "Jews created Christianity" myth has long since been put to sleep on this website (and many others), and it doesn't take much to refute it either;  just look at the historical record. Believing the Jews created Christianity would also mean the Jews created the greatest opposition to themselves ever known to man. Also it would mean they created a man who is diametrically opposed to everything they 'stand' for. And finally to believe that would also mean you believe they are just that stupid to have not gotten it right the first time, then  -and only after close to 2000 years, they would do everything in their power to re-write and redirect the church into something more of their liking (which again they should have just done in the first place).


 There is no point in debating with one as one sided as this, he's so sure that we've been duped but never checks himself to see if just maybe....
...ah never mind, it's a waste of time.  


 I stated before and I'll state it yet again; do not trust those that claim to be 'Jew wise' yet spend more of their time attacking the very faith ever,  historically speaking, to provide any resistance to the Jew instead of attacking the Jew themselves. I can side with atheist and/or  secular people that are 'Jew wise' because I don't spend my time attacking their 'non belief' belief system. I can get by that  as I know we need all the allies we can get in this fight. But those that can't see past 'Judeochristianity' and think 'Jew wise' Christians are one in the same as Judaeochristians, then- furthermore- they  feel  it  completely necessary to attack the faith of those same 'Jew wise' Christians..well these people  are not worth anyone's time here. Hell, they are not worth anything period ...except to the Jew; to them their worth is immeasurable.  

[phishna]

And then you go on to blame the Iraq War and depleted uranium on Christians.  Phishna, go look at "israel did 9/11: All the proof in the world".  That offers PROOF that israel was responsible for 9/11, not the Vatican. israel pushed for the Iraq war, not the Vatican. israel is the Jewish state, not a Christian state.  Why are you muddying the waters?  Why are you turning attention away from the Jewish perpetrators?

OK we both agree that Israel did 911.  In fact this forum , TIU, put up and maintained the link that "Israel did 911 all the proof in the world".  This is a must read for all Christians:

http://www.theinfounderground.com/forum ... php?t=5367

But you are forgetting one thing, the only reason Israel can murder Americans again and again is because the vast majority of Christians support Israel.  This is completely irrational since Israel is the enemy of America and in fact Israel is not only the enemy of all nations, but she is the enemy of the planet and life itself.  What the Jews and their nasty state does is one thing, destroy, period.  So why does America support Israel, why are the politicians of America slavishly cowtowing to little Israel?  Because America is Christian, and if you think about it Christianity has become the Achilles Heel for America.  The Jews are destroying America with full support of her inhabitants.

Does anyone actually think this man represents God?  Note the faux pious postering and phallus headress:

As far as the popes go, they are evil liars promoting and enslaving Catholics with the Jew myth.  I spent 12 long years in Catholic school hearing all about your precious Christ, I've read the Bible cover to cover 3 times.  I understand and comprehend the Jew god, I was groomed to be a priest.  You think the popes are good, represent god?  Here is what a pope says about your Christ:

                                                  "What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!" Pope Leo X.

Popes are not good men, they are cons, and you are a slave if you believe in any pope.  The popes are cashing in, why work when you can live in lap of luxury, all you have to do is tell the Jew lie.  The truth movement is exposing the Bible as the greatest of all Jew lies, in fact Christ is the greatest story ever sold, and
the reason I started this thread was because of this blatant slander: Charles Giuliani: A Nihilist Saboteur of the Truth Movement?.

Fig trees are good.  What kind of man curses a fig tree?  A jew thats who.  You are so spelled you can't see that passage is either made up fiction OR if true shows that Jesus is a bastard Jew cursing living things and killing them with his godly powers.



Click on this to see the hundreds of books written about the Christ myth:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&suge ... iALPuaigCA

[Christopher Marlowe]

CM,

 Why bother with this guy? He hasn't been able to refute a single point I put forth in the 2nd post of this thread. He has NOTHING, nothing but an agenda. The "Jews created Christianity" myth has long since been put to sleep on this website (and many others), and it doesn't take much to refute it either;  just look at the historical record. Believing the Jews created Christianity would also mean the Jews created the greatest opposition to themselves ever known to man. Also it would mean they created a man who is diametrically opposed to everything they 'stand' for. And finally to believe that would also mean you believe they are just that stupid to have not gotten it right the first time, then  -and only after close to 2000 years, they would do everything in their power to re-write and redirect the church into something more of their liking (which again they should have just done in the first place).


 There is no point in debating with one as one sided as this, he's so sure that we've been duped but never checks himself to see if just maybe....
...ah never mind, it's a waste of time.  


 I stated before and I'll state it yet again; do not trust those that claim to be 'Jew wise' yet spend more of their time attacking the very faith ever,  historically speaking, to provide any resistance to the Jew instead of attacking the Jew themselves. I can side with atheist and/or  secular people that are 'Jew wise' because I don't spend my time attacking their 'non belief' belief system. I can get by that  as I know we need all the allies we can get in this fight. But those that can't see past 'Judeochristianity' and think 'Jew wise' Christians are one in the same as Judaeochristians, then- furthermore- they  feel  it  completely necessary to attack the faith of those same 'Jew wise' Christians..well these people  are not worth anyone's time here. Hell, they are not worth anything period ...except to the Jew; to them their worth is immeasurable.  

Well said G.  
 
But just a little more.

But you are forgetting one thing, the only reason Israel can murder Americans again and again is because the vast majority of Christians support Israel. This is completely irrational since Israel is the enemy of America and in fact Israel is not only the enemy of all nations, but she is the enemy of the planet and life itself. What the Jews and their nasty state does is one thing, destroy, period. So why does America support Israel, why are the politicians of America slavishly cowtowing to little Israel? Because America is Christian, and if you think about it Christianity has become the Achilles Heel for America. The Jews are destroying America with full support of her inhabitants.

US support for israel couldn't have anything to do with the fact that Jews own all of the television, film and other media outlets. Don't you think the brainwashing of people to believe in the holohoax has something to do with US support for israel?  If we don't support israel, then another 600 trillion Jews will be gassed, and burned like kindling.  

Also, you should note the difference between zionist-Christians and real Christians.  The former are illiterate television watchers.  They do not represent the the true Christian faith.  

As for the politicians slavishly cowtowing to israel, why is it that those same politicians are passing anti-Christian abortion laws and forcing the Catholic Church to pay for abortion?  Why are politicians passing anti-Christian fag-marriage laws?  If those politicians were acting in favor of Christians, they would not do this.  So you say these politicians support israel because Christians support israel, but then pass anti-Christian laws despite these Christians.  Your theory is not consistent.  Perhaps the politicians are blindly supporting israel because they are bribed and blackmailed.  These politicians do the bidding of israel.  Period.  They don't care what Christians think.  

I understand and comprehend the Jew god, I was groomed to be a priest. You think the popes are good, represent god? Here is what a pope says about your Christ:

"What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!" Pope Leo X.

I'm glad you didn't become a priest.  You don't really understand Jesus and you have shown that you don't really check your sources very well.

ALLEGED QUOTE: "How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has been for us!" or
"What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!"

Though rarely accompanied by a source, this quote is always attributed to Pope Leo X. When a source is offered, it is sometimes cited as being found in the 14th edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica, Volume 19, Page 217.

Not only do these pages not mention the quote, it is not even the volume that contains the Pope Leo X article! His
article is found in Volume 13 on pages 926-928. Though I read the encyclopedia article, this quote appears
nowhere within the text. Even though the encyclopedia admits to Leo leaving the papacy virtually bankrupt upon
his death, this quote is never attributed to him.

So where did this quote originate? Skeptics claim Leo said this to a member of his entourage who later attributed the quote to him. However, the quote has now been attributed to the 16th century satirist and playwright, John Bale. John Bale joined the Protestant movement after becoming disenchanted with the corruption of the Catholic church. He wrote many parodies in which he openly expressed his disdain of papal abuse. One of his satirical works known as The Pageant of the Popes is the actual source of the quote in question (paraphrased in modern English for the reader's convenience):

"For on a time when a cardinal Bembus did move a question out of the Gospel, the Pope gave him a very
contemptuous answer saying: All ages can testify enough how profitable that fable of Christ hath been
to us and our company." (Pageant of the Popes Page 179)

Even the Catholic Encyclopedia explains this quote does not come from Leo: "His piety cannot truly be described
as deep or spiritual, but that does not justify the continued repetition of his alleged remark: 'How much we and
our family have profited by the legend of Christ, is sufficiently evident to all ages.' John Bale, the apostate
English Carmelite, the first to give currency to these words in the time of Queen Elizabeth, was not even a
contemporary of Leo." Catholic Encyclopedia

CONCLUSION: This quote is from a fictional 16th century work written as a parody. Presenting this as a
legitimate quote would be as absurd as attributing a line from a Shakespearian play to the real life character
whom an actor depicted.

So if you really care about the TRUTH, Phishna, you will stop using this quote.  It is a fiction, and if you persist, that will make you a liar.  

Popes are not good men, they are cons, and you are a slave if you believe in any pope. The popes are cashing in, why work when you can live in lap of luxury, all you have to do is tell the Jew lie. The truth movement is exposing the Bible as the greatest of all Jew lies, in fact Christ is the greatest story ever sold, and
the reason I started this thread was because of this blatant slander: Charles Giuliani: A Nihilist Saboteur of the Truth Movement?.

It is true that not all Popes were good men, but you can't claim that none of them was good. The very first Pope, Peter, was not rich, and he was martyred for the Faith, as were many of the first Popes.

The Truth movement is not about "exposing the Bible", but rather about exposing the Jewish criminal network.  Go back and read the post on "israel did 9/11".  It doesn't say anything about Popes or the Holy Bible.  You are distracting people from the Truth.  Why?  Are you trying to please your Jewish masters?  

Giuliani does the same thing: he distracts people from the real problem by pointing his fingers at Christians.  That is like Eric Jon Phelps, the diamond merchant, who claims that the Vatican runs israel.  Everyone knows that isreal is a wicked shit-hole run completely by Jews, but Phelps distracts everyone from this and blames the Vatican for what the Jews do.  Diamond merchant.  If you and Giuliani were really wise to the Jewish cabal, you would stop blaspheming Jesus, and you would focus your attention on the criminals.  You wouldn't distract people with made up quotes, and quoting Jewish sources who hate God.  

Fig trees are good. What kind of man curses a fig tree? A jew thats who. You are so spelled you can't see that passage is either made up fiction OR if true shows that Jesus is a bastard Jew cursing living things and killing them with his godly powers

Fig trees are generally good, but not ALL fig trees are good.  Some trees are diseased and they have to be cut down. Jesus didn't curse EVERY FIG TREE.  Just one.  You don't have any personal knowledge of that fig tree, but you are going to judge Jesus Christ by that fig tree?  What kind of a man would judge a Man over a single fig tree?  A jew, that's who.  You hate Jesus so much that you can't understand the genius of the New Testament.  You even blaspheme the Lord Jesus just like the Jewish Talmud.  Your mask is coming off.

[phishna]

Also, you should note the difference between zionist-Christians and real Christians.  The former are illiterate television watchers.  They do not represent the the true Christian faith.  

Fig trees are good. What kind of man curses a fig tree? A jew thats who. You are so spelled you can't see that passage is either made up fiction OR if true shows that Jesus is a bastard Jew cursing living things and killing them with his godly powers

Fig trees are generally good, but not ALL fig trees are good.  Some trees are diseased and they have to be cut down. Jesus didn't curse EVERY FIG TREE.  Just one.  You don't have any personal knowledge of that fig tree, but you are going to judge Jesus Christ by that fig tree?  What kind of a man would judge a Man over a single fig tree?  A jew, that's who.  You hate Jesus so much that you can't understand the genius of the New Testament.  You even blaspheme the Lord Jesus just like the Jewish Talmud.  Your mask is coming off.

There ya' go, those Zionist Christians aren't real Christians.  Those Mormons aren't Christians.  Those Catholics are Christians.  How many Christian groups accuse their rivals of not being true Christians?

The problem is the Zionists, Mormons, Catholics, etc are all Christians; everyone of them, because they believe in Christ.  Even those Baptists are Christians.

You said "Fig trees are generally good, but not ALL fig trees are good."  Really?  You think there is a bad fig tree because the Bible says so?

And I can not "blaspheme the Lord Jesus" because Jesus is fiction. So you think Jesus is Lord?  Please explain to me how Jesus is Lord, what does Lord mean to you, define Lord and Jesus relation as this lord. lol

Then you say  "You hate Jesus so much that you can't understand the genius of the New Testament."  I do not hate the Jesus fiction, believe me, I have no hate for Jesus.  I don't hate you or your blind obedience to Jew propaganda, I'm just trying to figure out why anyone would continue loyalty to the Bible as the Jews consolidate total power.  I imagine that soon the Jews are going to open fire, I've been reading how DHS is ordering hundreds of millions of rounds of .40 hollow point ammo.  Can't be good.  Obviously they have a plan on using it soon on us.

Please stop saying I'm Jewish, or pro Talmud, etc. , I have written hundreds of essays and thousands of posts totally damning the Jews, the Talmud, Israel, more so than any other writer on the internet.  Just google "phishna" if your doubt this.  I had thousands of hits on my http://eliminatealljewsonearth.blogspot.com/ blog until google took it down.

I mean it to, humanity must eliminate all Jews from planet earth.  All Bibles and Torahs and other Jew holy books must be destroyed.  The Jews are threatening the very existence of the human specie and the planet itself.  So why do I attack Christians, because I found out that they are the #1 ally of the Jew.

[phishna]

You really need to stop reading and quoting the Bible, there is no Jesus, there is absolutely no covenant, old or new.  There is no salvation through a Jew savior, there is no angry judging god, no hell, and no Satan.  But there is a tribe of thieves destroying the planet.

You really need to read to Bible so that you can have a basic understanding of what you are talking about.  Also you should read up on covenants. Jesus Christ is the only way to Eternal Life, and you had better get to know Him before it is too late.  There is very definitely a Hell and a Heaven, and everyone will end up in the right place because God does not make mistakes.  

I stand by my words:  "there is no Jesus, there is absolutely no covenant, old or new.  There is no salvation through a Jew savior, there is no angry judging god, no hell, and no Satan.".   And let me add, there are no chosen peoples, not the Jews of the Old Testament, not the Christians of the New testament.  There is no god doing any choosing.  The choosing meme is BULL SHIT, total unadulterated Bible BULLSHIT, of which you have no proof!   Your beliefs are in reality a mental illness, a delusion caused by a memetic virus!

I stand in front of the entire Universe and say you are completely possessed by Biblical memes of covenants, Jesus the only way, eternal life, hell, and this Jew god who doesn't make mistakes.  Maybe space aliens made agreements with early man, but certainly no god did.  The entire New Testament is about the Jew god fixing his mistake by butchering his "only begotten son" on the cross.  The primary theme of the Old Testament is god wiping out humanity in a flood.  And you say this god doesn't make mistakes, the flood story is admittance of his mistake, the sacrifice of Jesus is another story of his mistake.  

You worship and admire this god who kills mankind for his mistakes?  Why?  What about the Book of Job?  God sics Satan onto his loyal servant.  What kind of crazy god does that?  And please stop making threats like: "Jesus Christ is the only way to Eternal Life, and you had better get to know Him before it is too late.".  I would never want to go to a place where there are only Christians, not on earth, and not in heaven.  

You have no proof of any of your assertions, and you can not use the Bible as proof, that is the error of circular reasoning.

[blueocean]

I thought this thread was over, so I didn't look at it for a couple of days, but surprise surprise assphish kept the flame of poop alive  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Not sure what's worse : circular reasoning or ass-reasoning    :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Anyhoo     guys  :lol:

[Christopher Marlowe]

There ya' go, those Zionist Christians aren't real Christians.  Those Mormons aren't Christians.  Those Catholics are Christians.  How many Christian groups accuse their rivals of not being true Christians?

I already gave the example of a person who CLAIMS to be a vegetarian, but then eats meat. Obviously if a person claimed to be a Christian but then claimed also to believe in something contrary to Christ, then he wouldn't REALLY be a Christian.  People who form their "Christian" beliefs by watching Talmudic television are not really Christians, thought they claim to be.  

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

[16] By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? [17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. [18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. [19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire. [20] Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.

[21] Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. [22] Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? [23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity. [24] Every one therefore that heareth these my words, and doth them, shall be likened to a wise man that built his house upon a rock, [25] And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat upon that house, and it fell not, for it was founded on a rock.

The problem is the Zionists, Mormons, Catholics, etc are all Christians; everyone of them, because they believe in Christ.  Even those Baptists are Christians.

Aha! So you say there are Christian zionists as well as Christians who are not zionists. Therefore, by your own reckoning, zionism is NOT a Christian issue, per se, but at best a subgroup of Christians. Just as they are a subgroup of Americans, or White Southern People, or Europeans. Any one of these groups could just as easily be blamed for the problems caused by Jews, but wouldn't it make more sense to just blame the people who are actually causing the problem?  Why would someone blame Christians for the things the Jews do? Because they are deflecting the blame away from the guilty.  Like Eric Jon Phelps.  

You said "Fig trees are generally good, but not ALL fig trees are good."  Really?  You think there is a bad fig tree because the Bible says so?

If someone is a fig farmer, he could tell a bad fig tree by examining it. A fig tree might have a fungus or worms, or it might be the wrong variety for that area. He would know when it would be better to trim a tree back or to cut it down.  That doesn't take miraculous powers to tell if a tree should be cut down.  

But this passage is not about garden care.  The Lord's actions against the fig tree represented the end of the Old Covenant. Jesus cursed the fig tree, then He goes into Jerusalem and throws the moneylenders out of the temple.  Then they come back and see that the fig tree is dead:

And the next day when they came out from Bethania, he was hungry. [13] And when he had seen afar off a fig tree having leaves, he came if perhaps he might find any thing on it. And when he was come to it, he found nothing but leaves. For it was not the time for figs. [14] And answering he said to it: May no man hereafter eat fruit of thee any more for ever. And his disciples heard it. [15] And they came to Jerusalem. And when he was entered into the temple, he began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the chairs of them that sold doves.

[16] And he suffered not that any man should carry a vessel through the temple; [17] And he taught, saying to them: Is it not written, My house shall be called the house of prayer to all nations? But you have made it a den of thieves. [18] Which when the chief priests and the scribes had heard, they sought how they might destroy him. For they feared him, because the whole multitude was in admiration at his doctrine. [19] And when evening was come, he went forth out of the city. [20] And when they passed by in the morning they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.

See the way the story of the fig tree bookends the story about the moneylenders?  That is not an accident.

In case you are really worried about fig trees, there is also a parable that Jesus tells about how to save a fig tree:

He spoke also this parable: A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it, and found none. [7] And he said to the dresser of the vineyard: Behold, for these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and I find none. Cut it done therefore: why cumbereth it the ground? [8] But he answering, said to him: Lord, let it alone this year also, until I dig about it, and dung it. [9] And if happily it bear fruit: but if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

Again, this is not just about fig trees, but rather how God works with people to help their lives become more fruitful.  What a Kind a Merciful God!  Praise Jesus Christ!

And I can not "blaspheme the Lord Jesus" because Jesus is fiction. So you think Jesus is Lord?  Please explain to me how Jesus is Lord, what does Lord mean to you, define Lord and Jesus relation as this lord.

Jesus is the Word of God made flesh.  

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. [4] In him was life, and the life was the light of men. [5] And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

God created mankind, giving him free will; but mankind used his free will to sin against God.  The natural consequence of sin is death. But God is Merciful and so God sent His only Son into the world so that we might have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting. [17] For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him. [18] He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [19] And this is the judgment: because the light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the light: for their works were evil. [20] For every one that doth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, that his works may not be reproved.

God set Jesus above everything.

He that cometh from above, is above all. He that is of the earth, of the earth he is, and of the earth he speaketh. He that cometh from heaven, is above all. [32] And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth: and no man receiveth his testimony. [33] He that hath received his testimony, hath set to his seal that God is true. [34] For he whom God hath sent, speaketh the words of God: for God doth not give the Spirit by measure. [35] The Father loveth the Son: and he hath given all things into his hand.

[36] He that believeth in the Son, hath life everlasting; but he that believeth not the Son, shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

There is no other name by which mankind will be saved.

This is the stone which was rejected by you the builders, which is become the head of the corner. [12] Neither is there salvation in any other. For there is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be saved.

So Jesus is the Lord of all.  

Jesus is the Perfect Expression of God. It is by Jesus that we can come to know God fully.

Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me. [7] If you had known me, you would without doubt have known my Father also: and from henceforth you shall know him, and you have seen him. [8] Philip saith to him: Lord, shew us the Father, and it is enough for us. [9] Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me? Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou, shew us the Father? [10] Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works.

I love My Lord Jesus because He loved me first.
Jesus gave me life;
Jesus is saving me from death and showing me the way to eternal life;
Jesus gives me what I need, and He helps me to grow into the person He wanted me to become before I was born; Jesus keeps me from sin;
And Jesus is Just: He will reward the just and punish the wicked:  

And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. [32] And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: [33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. [34] Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. [35] For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

[36] Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. [37] Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? [38] And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? [39] Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? [40] And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

[41] Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. [42] For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. [43] I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. [44] Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? [45] Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.

[46] And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

Then you say  "You hate Jesus so much that you can't understand the genius of the New Testament."  I do not hate the Jesus fiction, believe me, I have no hate for Jesus.  I don't hate you or your blind obedience to Jew propaganda, I'm just trying to figure out why anyone would continue loyalty to the Bible as the Jews consolidate total power.  I imagine that soon the Jews are going to open fire, I've been reading how DHS is ordering hundreds of millions of rounds of .40 hollow point ammo.  Can't be good.  Obviously they have a plan on using it soon on us.

Jews are not stronger than God. DHS is not stronger than God.    

Please stop saying I'm Jewish, or pro Talmud, etc. , I have written hundreds of essays and thousands of posts totally damning the Jews, the Talmud, Israel, more so than any other writer on the internet.  Just google "phishna" if your doubt this.  I had thousands of hits on my [...] blog until google took it down.  I mean it to, humanity must eliminate all Jews from planet earth.  All Bibles and Torahs and other Jew holy books must be destroyed.  The Jews are threatening the very existence of the human specie and the planet itself.

I don't believe it is my place to eliminate any people.  That is something that I leave to God. I don't want to hurt anybody.  God will eliminate all the Talmuds. God will send all the bad people to Hell.  

Everyone is going to die.  The question becomes: what happens after we die. I want to go to heaven, and so that directs my actions on this earth. Jews have a philosophy that is based on this life only, and the result is based on control and satiating desire. They get all they can in this world because they don't believe in the next world.

[T]he Jews were at all times and by all nations loathed and despised.  This may be due partly to the fact that they were the only people on earth who did not credit man with any existence beyond this life... - Schopenhauer

The wickedness of the Jews comes from their earthly nature, and this is contrary to Christian teaching.  

So why do I attack Christians, because I found out that they are the #1 ally of the Jew.

That is a Jewish myth. You should listen to what a REAL CHRISTIAN, a DOCTOR of the Church, St. John Crysostom had to say about the Jews:

(4) And so I wanted again today to engage in that contest. For if the enemies of the truth never have enough of blaspheming our Benefactor, we must be all the more tireless in praising the God of all. But what am I to do? Another very serious illness calls for any cure my words can bring, an illness which has become implanted in the body of the Church. We must first root this ailment out and then take thought for matters outside; we must first cure our own and then be concerned for others who are strangers.

(5) What is this disease? The festivals of the pitiful and miserable Jews are soon to march upon us one after the other and in quick succession: the feast of Trumpets, the feast of Tabernacles, the fasts. There are many in our ranks who say they think as we do. Yet some of these are going to watch the festivals and others will join the Jews in keeping their feasts and observing their fasts. I wish to drive this perverse custom from the Church right now. My homilies against the Anomians can be put off to another time, and the postponement would cause no harm. But now that the Jewish festivals are close by and at the very door, if I should fail to cure those who are sick with the Judaizing disease. I am afraid that, because of their ill-suited association and deep ignorance, some Christians may partake in the Jews' transgressions; once they have done so, I fear my homilies on these transgressions will be in vain. For if they hear no word from me today, they will then join the Jews in their fasts; once they have committed this sin it will be useless for me to apply the remedy.

(6) And so it is that I hasten to anticipate this danger and prevent it. This is what physicians do. They first check the diseases which are most urgent and acute. But the danger from this sickness is very closely related to the danger from the other; since the Anomians impiety is akin to that of the Jews, my present conflict is akin to my former one. And there is a kingship because the Jews and the Anomians make the same accusation. And what charges do the Jews make? That He called God His own Father and so made Himself equal to God. The Anomians also make this charge-I should not say they make this a charge; they even blot out the phrase "equal to God" and what it connotes, by their resolve to reject it even if they do not physically erase it.

II

But do not be surprised that I called the Jews pitiable. They really are pitiable and miserable. When so many blessings from heaven came into their hands, they thrust them aside and were at great pains to reject them. The morning Sun of Justice arose for them, but they thrust aside its rays and still sit in darkness. We, who were nurtured by darkness, drew the light to ourselves and were freed from the gloom of their error. They were the branches of that holy root, but those branches were broken. We had no share in the root, but we did reap the fruit of godliness. From their childhood they read the prophets, but they crucified him whom the prophets had foretold. We did not hear the divine prophecies but we did worship him of whom they prophesied. And so they are pitiful because they rejected the blessings which were sent to them, while others seized hold of these blessing and drew them to themselves. Although those Jews had been called to the adoption of sons, they fell to kinship with dogs; we who were dogs received the strength, through God's grace, to put aside the irrational nature which was ours and to rise to the honor of sons. How do I prove this? Christ said: "It is no fair to take the children's bread and to cast it to the dogs". Christ was speaking to the Canaanite woman when He called the Jews children and the Gentiles dogs.

(2) But see how thereafter the order was changed about: they became dogs, and we became the children. Paul said of the Jews: "Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the mutilation. For we are the circumcision". Do you see how those who at first were children became dogs? Do you wish to find out how we, who at first were dogs, became children? "But to as many as received him, he gave the power of becoming sons of God".

(3) Nothing is more miserable than those people who never failed to attack their own salvation. When there was need to observe the Law, they trampled it under foot. Now that the Law has ceased to bind, they obstinately strive to observe it. What could be more pitiable that those who provoke God not only by transgressing the Law but also by keeping it? On this account Stephen said: "You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart, you always resist the Holy Spirit", not only by transgressing the Law but also by wishing to observe it at the wrong time.

(4) Stephen was right in calling them stiff-necked. For they failed to take up the yoke of Christ, although it was sweet and had nothing about it which was either burdensome or oppressive. For he said: "Learn from me for I am meek and humble of heart", and "Take my yoke upon you, for my yoke is sweet and my burden light". Nonetheless they failed to take up the yoke because of the stiffness of their necks. Not only did they fail to take it up but they broke it and destroyed it. For Jeremiah said: "Long ago you broke your yoke and burst your bonds". It was not Paul who said this but the voice of the prophet speaking loud and clear. When he spoke of the yoke and the bonds, he meant the symbols of rule, because the Jews rejected the rule of Christ when they said: "We have no king but Caesar". You Jews broke the yoke, you burst the bonds, you cast yourselves out of the kingdom of heaven, and you made yourselves subject to the rule of men. Please consider with me how accurately the prophet hinted that their hearts were uncontrolled. He did not say: "You set aside the yoke", but "You broke the yoke" and this is the crime of untamed beasts, who are uncontrolled and reject rule.

(5) But what is the source of this hardness? It come from gluttony and drunkenness. Who say so? Moses himself. "Israel ate and was filled and the darling grew fat and frisky". When brute animals feed from a full manger, they grow plump and become more obstinate and hard to hold in check; they endure neither the yoke, the reins, nor the hand of the charioteer. Just so the Jewish people were driven by their drunkenness and plumpness to the ultimate evil; they kicked about, they failed to accept the yoke of Christ, nor did they pull the plow of his teaching. Another prophet hinted at this when he said: "Israel is as obstinate as a stubborn heifer". And still another called the Jews "an untamed calf".

(6) Although such beasts are unfit for work, they are fit for killing. And this is what happened to the Jews: while they were making themselves unfit for work, they grew fit for slaughter. This is why Christ said: "But as for these my enemies, who did not want me to be king over them, bring them here and slay them". You Jews should have fasted then, when drunkenness was doing those terrible things to you, when your gluttony was giving birth to your ungodliness-not now. Now your fasting is untimely and an abomination. Who said so? Isaiah himself when he called out in a loud voice: "I did not choose this fast, say the Lord". Why? "You quarrel and squabble when you fast and strike those subject to you with your fists". But if you fasting was an abomination when you were striking your fellow slaves, does it become acceptable now that you have slain your Master? How could that be right?

(7) The man who fast should be properly restrained, contrite, humbled-not drunk with anger. But do you strike your fellow slaves? In Isaiah's day they quarreled and squabbled when they fasted; now when fast, they go in for excesses and the ultimate licentiousness, dancing with bare feet in the marketplace. The pretext is that they are fasting, but they act like men who are drunk. Hear how the prophet bit them to fast. "Sanctify a fast", he said. He did not say: "Make a parade of your fasting", but "call an assembly; gather together the ancients". But these Jews are gathering choruses of effeminates and a great rubbish heap of harlots; they drag into the synagogue the whole theater, actors and all. For there is no difference between the theater and the synagogue. I know that some suspect me of rashness because I said there is no difference between the theater and the synagogue; but I suspect them of rashness if they do not think that this is so. If my declaration that the two are the same rests on my own authority, then charge me with rashness. But if the words I speak are the words of the prophet, then accept his decision.

III

Many, I know, respect the Jews and think that their present way of life is a venerable one. This is why I hasten to uproot and tear out this deadly opinion. I said that the synagogue is no better than a theater and I bring forward a prophet as my witness. Surely the Jews are not more deserving of belief than their prophets. "You had a harlot's brow; you became shameless before all". Where a harlot has set herself up, that place is a brothel. But the synagogue is not only a brothel and a theater; it also is a den of robbers and a lodging for wild beasts. Jeremiah said: "Your house has become for me the den of a hyena". He does not simply say "of wild beast", but "of a filthy wild beast", and again: "I have abandoned my house, I have cast off my inheritance". But when God forsakes a people, what hope of salvation is left? When God forsakes a place, that place becomes the dwelling of demons.

(2) But at any rate the Jews say that they, too, adore God. God forbid that I say that. No Jew adores God! Who say so? The Son of God say so. For he said: "If you were to know my Father, you would also know me. But you neither know me nor do you know my Father". Could I produce a witness more trustworthy than the Son of God?

(3) If, then, the Jews fail to know the Father, if they crucified the Son, if they thrust off the help of the Spirit, who should not make bold to declare plainly that the synagogue is a dwelling of demons? God is not worshipped there. Heaven forbid! From now on it remains a place of idolatry. But still some people pay it honor as a holy place.

(4) Let me tell you this, not from guesswork but from my own experience. Three days ago-believe me, I am not lying-I saw a free woman of good bearing, modest, and a believer. A brutal, unfeeling man, reputed to be a Christian (for I would not call a person who would dare to do such a thing a sincere Christian) was forcing her to enter the shrine of the Hebrews and to swear there an oath about some matters under dispute with him. She came up to me and asked for help; she begged me to prevent this lawless violence-for it was forbidden to her, who had shared in the divine mysteries, to enter that place. I was fired with indignation, I became angry, I rose up, I refused to let her be dragged into that transgression, I snatched her from the hands of her abductor. I asked him if were a Christian, and he said he was. Then I set upon him vigorously, charging him with lack of feeling and the worst stupidity; I told him he was no better off than a mule if he, who professed to worship Christ, would drag someone off to the dens of the Jews who had crucified him. I talked to him a long time, drawing my lesson from the Holy Gospels; I told him first that it was altogether forbidden to swear and that it was wrong to impose the necessity of swearing on anyone. I then told him that he most not subject a baptize believer to this necessity. In fact, he must not force even an unbaptized person to swear an oath.

(5) After I talked with him at great length and had driven the folly of his error from his soul, I asked him why he rejected the Church and dragged the woman to the place where the Hebrews assembled. He answered that many people had told him that oaths sworn there were more to be feared. His words made me groan, then I grew angry, and finally I began to smile. When I saw the devil's wickedness, I groaned because he had the power to seduce men; I grew angry when I considered how careless were those who were deceived; when I saw the extent and depth of the folly of those who were deceived, I smiled.

(6) I told you this story because you are savage and ruthless in your attitude toward those who do such things and undergo these experiences. If you see one of your brothers falling into such transgressions, you consider that it is someone else's misfortune, not your own; you think you have defended yourselves against your accusers when you say: "What concern of mine is it? What do I have in common with that man"? When you say that, your words manifest the utmost hatred for mankind and a cruelty which benefits the devil. What are you saying? You are a man and share the same nature. Why speak of a common nature when you have but a single head, Christ? Do you dare to say you have nothing in common with your own members? In what sense do you admit that Christ is the head of the Church? For certainly it is the function of the head to join all the limbs together, to order them carefully to each other, and to bind them into one nature. But if you have nothing in common with your members, then you have nothing in common with your brother, nor do you have Christ as your head.

(7) The Jews frighten you as if you were little children, and you do not see it. Many wicked slaves show frightening and ridiculous masks to youngsters-the masks are not frightening by their nature, but they seem so to the children's simple minds-and in this way they stir up many a laugh. This is the way the Jews frighten the simpler-minded Christians with the bugbears and hobgoblins of their shrines. Yet how could their ridiculous and disgraceful synagogues frighten you? Are they not the shrines of men who have been rejected, dishonored, and condemned?

IV

Our churches are not like that; they are truly frightening and filled with fear. God's presence makes a place frightening because he has power over life and death. In our churches we hear countless homilies on eternal punishments, on rivers of fire, on the venomous worm, on bonds that cannot be burst, or exterior darkness. But the Jews neither know nor dream of these things. They live for their bellies, they gape for the things of this world, their condition is not better than that of pigs or goats because of their wanton ways and excessive gluttony. They know but one thing: to fill their bellies and be drunk, to get all cut and bruised, to be hurt and wounded while fighting for their favorite charioteers.

(2) Tell me, then, are their shrines awful and frightening? Who would say so? what reasons do we have for thinking that they are frightening unless someone should tell us that dishonored slaves, who have no right to speak and who have been driven from their Master's home, should frighten us, who have been given honor and the freedom to speak? Certainly this is not the case. Inns are not more august then royal palaces. Indeed the synagogue is less deserving of honor than any inn. It is not merely a lodging place for robbers and cheats but also for demons. This is true not only of the synagogues but also of the souls of the Jews, as I shall try to prove at the end of my homily.

(3) I urge you to keep my words in your minds in a special way. For I am not now speaking for show or applause but to cure your souls. And what else is left for me to say when some of you are still sick although there are so many physicians to effect a cure?

(4) There were twelve apostles and they drew the whole world to themselves. The greater portion of the city is Christian, yet some are still sick with the Judaizing disease. And what could we, who are healthy, say in our own defense? Surely those who are sick deserve to be accused. But we are not free from blame, because we have neglected them in their hour of illness; if we had shown great concern for them and they had the benefit of this care, they could not possibly still be sick.

(5) Let me get the start on you by saying this now, so that each of you may win over his brother. Even if you must impose restraint, even if you must use force, even if you must treat him ill and obstinately, do everything to save him from the devil's snare and to free him from fellowship with those who slew Christ.

(6) Tell me this. Suppose you were to see a man who had been justly condemned being led to execution through the marketplace. Suppose it were in your power to save him from the hands of the public executioner. Would you not do all you could to keep him from being dragged off? But now you see your own brother being dragged off unjustly to the depth of destruction. And it is not the executioner who drags him of, but the devil. Would you be so bold as not to do your part toward rescuing him from his transgression? If you don't help him, what excuse would you find? But your brother is stronger and more powerful than you. Show him to me. If he will stand fast in his obstinate resolve, I shall choose to risk my life rather than let him enter the doors of the synagogue.

(7) I shall say to him: What fellowship do you have with the free Jerusalem, with the Jerusalem above? You chose the one below; be a slave with that earthly Jerusalem which, according to the word of the Apostle, is a slave together with her children. Do you fast with the Jews? Then take off your shoes with the Jews, and walk barefoot in the marketplace, and share with them in their indecency and laughter. But you would not chose to do this because you are ashamed and apt to blush. Are you ashamed to share with them in outward appearance but unashamed to share in their impiety? What excuse will you have, you who are only half a Christian?

( Believe me, I shall risk my life before I would neglect any one who is sick with this disease-if I see him. If I fail to see him, surely God will grant me pardon. And let each one of you consider this matter; let him not think it is something of secondary importance. Do you take no notice of what the deacon continuously calls out in the mysteries? "Recognize one another", he says. Do you not see how he entrusts to you the careful examination of your brothers? Do this in the case of Judaizers, too. When you observe someone Judaizing, take hold of him, show him what he is doing, so that you may not yourself be an accessory to the risk he runs.

(9) If any Roman soldier serving overseas is caught favoring the barbarians and the Persians, not only is he in danger but so also is everyone who was aware of how this felt and failed to make this fact known to the general. Since you are the army of Christ, be overly careful in searching to see if anyone favoring an alien faith has mingled among you, and make his presence known-not so that we may put him to death as those generals did, nor that we may punish him or take our vengeance upon him, but that we may free him from his error and ungodliness and make him entirely our own.

(10) If you are unwilling to do this, if you know of such a person but conceal him, be sure that both you and he will be subject to the same penalty. For Paul subjects to chastisement and punishment not only those who commit acts of wickedness but also those who approve what they have done. The prophet, too, brings to the same judgment not only thieves but also who run with the thieves. And this is quite reasonable. For if a man is aware of a criminal's actions but covers them up and conceals them, he is providing a stronger basis for the criminal to be careless of the law and making him less afraid in his career of crime.

V

But I must get back again to those who are sick. Consider, then, with whom they are sharing their fasts. It is with those who shouted: "Crucify him, Crucify him", with those who said: "His blood be upon us and upon our children". If some men had been caught in rebellion against their ruler and were condemned, would you have dared to go up to them and to speak with them? I think not. Is it not foolish, then, to show such readiness to flee from those who have sinned against a man, but to enter into fellowship with those who have committed outrages against God himself? Is it not strange that those who worship the Crucified keep common festival with those who crucified him? Is it not a sign of folly and the worst madness?

(2) Since there are some who think of the synagogue as a holy place, I must say a few words to them. Why do you reverence that place? Must you not despise it, hold it in abomination, run away from it? They answer that the Law and the books of the prophets are kept there. What is this? Will any place where these books are be a holy place? By no means! This is the reason above all others why I hate the synagogue and abhor it. They have the prophets but not believe them; they read the sacred writings but reject their witness-and this is a mark of men guilty of the greatest outrage.

(3) Tell me this. If you were to see a venerable man, illustrious and renowned, dragged off into a tavern or den of robbers; if you were to see him outraged, beaten, and subjected there to the worst violence, would you have held that tavern or den in high esteem because that great and esteemed man had been inside it while undergoing that violent treatment? I think not. Rather, for this very reason you would have hated and abhorred the place.

(4) Let that be your judgment about the synagogue, too. For they brought the books of Moses and the prophets along with them into the synagogue, not to honor them but to outrage them with dishonor. When they say that Moses and the prophets knew not Christ and said nothing about his coming, what greater outrage could they do to those holy men than to accuse them of failing to recognize their Master, than to say that those saintly prophets are partners of their impiety? And so it is that we must hate both them and their synagogue all the more because of their offensive treatment of those holy men.

(5) Why do I speak about the books and the synagogues? In time of persecution, the public executioners lay hold of the bodies of the martyrs, they scourge them, and tear them to pieces. Does it make the executioners' hands holy because they lay hold of the body of holy men? Heaven forbid! The hands which grasped and held the bodies of the holy ones still stay unholy. Why? Because those executioners did a wicked thing when they laid their hands upon the holy. And will those who handle and outrage the writings of the holy ones be any more venerable for this than those who executed the martyrs? Would that not be the ultimate foolishness? If the maltreated bodies of the martyrs do not sanctify those who maltreated them but even add to their blood-guilt, much less could the Scriptures, if read without belief, ever help those who read without believing. The very act of deliberately choosing to maltreat the Scriptures convicts them of greater godlessness.

(6) If they did not have the prophets, they would not deserve such punishment; if they had not read the sacred books, they would not be so unclean and so unholy. But, as it is, they have been stripped of all excuse. They do have the heralds of the truth but, with hostile heart, they set themselves against the prophets and the truth they speak. So it is for this reason that they would be all the more profane and blood-guilty: they have the prophets, but they treat them with hostile hearts.

(7) So it is that I exhort you to flee and shun their gatherings. The harm they bring to our weaker brothers is not slight; they offer no slight excuse to sustain to the folly of the Jews. For when they see that you, who worship the Christ whom they crucified, are reverently following their rituals, how can they fail to think that the rites they have performed are the best and that our ceremonies are worthless? For after you worship and adore at our mysteries, you run to the very men who destroy our rites. Paul said: "If a man sees you that have knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not his conscience, being weak, be emboldened to eat those things which are sacrificed to idols"? And let me say: If a man sees you that have knowledge come into the synagogue and participate in the festival of the Trumpets, shall not his conscience, being weak, be emboldened to admire what the Jews do? He who falls not only pays the penalty for his own fall, but he is also punished because he trips others as well. But the man who has stood firm is rewarded not only because of his own virtue but people admire him for leading others to desire the same things.

( Therefore, flee the gatherings and holy places of the Jews. Let no man venerate the synagogue because of the holy books; let him hate and avoid it because the Jews outrage and maltreat the holy ones, because they refuse to believe their words, because they accuse them of the ultimate impiety.

VI

That you may know that the sacred books do not make a place holy but that the purpose of those who frequent a place does make it profane, I shall tell an old story. Ptolemy Philadelphus had collected books from all over the world. When he learned that the Jews had writings which treated of God and the ideal state, he sent for men from Judea and had them translate those books, which he then had deposited in the temple of Serapis, for he was a pagan. Up to the present day the translated books remain there in the temple. But will the temple of Serapis be holy because of the holy books? Heaven forbid! Although the books have their own holiness, they do not give a share of it to the place because those who frequent the place are defiled.

(2) You must apply the same argument to the synagogue. Even if there is no idol there, still demons do inhabit the place. And I say this not only about the synagogue here in town but about the one in Daphne as well; for at Daphne you have a more wicked place of perdition which they call Matrona's. I have heard that many of the faithful go up there and sleep beside the place.

(3) But heaven forbid that I call these people faithful. For to me the shrine of Matrona and the temple of Apollo are equally profane. If anyone charges me with boldness, I will in turn charge him with the utmost madness. For, tell me, is not the dwelling place of demons a place of impiety even if no god's statue stands there? Here the slayers of Christ gather together, here the cross is driven out, here God is blasphemed, here the Father is ignored, here the Son is outraged, here the grace of the Spirit is rejected. Does not greater harm come from this place since the Jews themselves are demons? In the pagan temple the impiety is naked and obvious; it would not be ease to deceive a man of sound and prudent mind or entice him to go there. But in the synagogue there are men who say they worship God and abhor idols, men who say they have prophets and pay them honor. But by their words they make ready an abundance of bait to catch in their nets the simpler souls who are so foolish as to be caught of guard.

(4) So the godlessness of the Jews and the pagans is on a par. But the Jews practice a deceit which is more dangerous. In their synagogue stands an invisible altar of deceit on which they sacrifice not sheep and calves but the souls of men.

(5) Finally, if the ceremonies of the Jews move you to admiration, what do you have in common with us? If the Jewish ceremonies are venerable and great, our are lies. But if ours are true, as they are true, theirs are filled with deceit. I am not speaking of the Scriptures. Heaven forbid! It was the Scriptures which took me by the hand and led me to Christ. But I am talking about the ungodliness and present madness of the Jews.

(6) Certainly it is the time for me to show that demons dwell in the synagogue, not only in the place itself but also in the souls of the Jews. As Christ said: "When an unclean spirit is gone out, he walks through dry places seeking rest. If he does not find it he says: I shall return to my house. And coming he finds it empty, swept, and garnished. Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself and they enter into him and the last state of that man is made worse than the first. So shall it be also to this generations".

(7) Do you see that demons dwell in their souls and that these demons are more dangerous than the ones of old? And this is very reasonable. In the old days the Jews acted impiously toward the prophets; now they outrage the Master of the prophets. Tell me this. Do you not shudder to come into the same place with men possessed, who have so many unclean spirits, who have been reared amid slaughter and bloodshed? Must you share a greeting with them and exchange a bare word? Must you not turn away from them since they are the common disgrace and infection of the whole world? Have they not come to every form of wickedness? Have not all the prophets spent themselves making many and long speeches of accusation against them? What tragedy, what manner of lawlessness have they not eclipsed by their blood-guiltiness? They sacrificed their own sons and daughters to demons. They refused to recognize nature, they forgot the pangs, of birth, they trod underfoot the rearing of their children, they overturned from their foundations the laws of kingship, they became more savage than any wild beast.

( Wild beasts oftentimes lay down their lives and scorn their own safety to protect their young. No necessity forced the Jews when they slew their own children with their own hands to pay honor to the avenging demons, the foes of our life. What deed of theirs should strike us with greater astonishment? Their ungodliness or their cruelty or their inhumanity? That they sacrificed their children or that they sacrificed them to demons? Because of their licentiousness, did they not show a lust beyond that of irrational animals? Hear what the prophet says of their excesses. "They are become as amorous stallions. Every one neighed after his neighbor's wife". He did not say: "Everyone lusted after his neighbor's wife", but he expressed the madness which came from their licentiousness with the greatest clarity by speaking of it as the neighing of brute beasts.

VII

What else do you wish me to tell you? Shall I tell you of their plundering, their covetousness, their abandonment of the poor, their thefts, their cheating in trade? the whole day long will not be enough to give you an account of these things. But do their festivals have something solemn and great about them? They have shown that these, too, are impure. Listen to the prophets; rather, listen to God and with how strong a statement he turns his back on them: "I have found your festivals hateful, I have thrust them away from myself".

(2) Does God hate their festivals and do you share in them? He did not say this or that festival, but all of them together. Do you wish to see that God hates the worship paid with kettledrums, with lyres, with harps, and other instruments? God said: "Take away from me the sound of your songs and I will not hear the canticle of you harps". If God said: "Take them away from me", do you run to listen to the trumpets? Are these sacrifices and offerings not an abomination? "If you bring me the finest wheaten flour, it is in vain: incense is an abomination to me". The incense is an abomination. Is not the place also an abomination? Before they committed the crime of crimes, before they killed their Master, before the cross, before the slaying of Christ, it was an abomination. Is it not now all the more an abomination? And yet what is more fragrant than incense? But God looks not to the nature of the gifts but to the intention of those who bring them; it is this intention that he judges their offerings.

(3) He paid heed to Abel and then to his gifts. He looked at Cain and then turned away from his offering. For Scripture says: "For Cain and his offerings he had no regard". Noah offered to God sacrifices of sheep and calves and birds. The Scripture say: "And the Lord smelled a sweet odor", that is, he accepted the offerings. For God has no nostrils but is a bodiless spirit. Yet what is carried up from the altar is the odor and smoke from burning bodies, and nothing is more malodorous than such a savor. But that you may learn that God attends to the intention of the one offering the sacrifice and then accepts or rejects it, Scripture calls the odor and the smoke a sweet savor; but it calls the incense an abomination because the intention of those offering it reeked with a great stench.

(4) Do you wish to learn that, together with the sacrifices and the musical instruments and the festivals and the incense, God also rejects the temple because of those who enter it? He showed this mostly by his deeds, when he gave it over to barbarian hands, and later when he utterly destroyed it. But even before its destruction, through his prophet he shouted aloud and said: "Put not your trust in deceitful words for it will not help you when you say: "This is the temple of the Lord! The temple of the Lord"! What the prophet says is that the temple does not make holy those who gather there, but those who gather there make the temple holy. If the temple did not help at a time when the Cherubim and the Ark were there, much less will it help now that all those things are gone, now that God's rejection is complete, now that there is greater ground for enmity. How great an act of madness and derangement would it be to take as your partners in the festivals those who have been dishonored, those whom God has forsaken, those who angered the Master?

(5) Tell me this. If a man were to have slain your son, would you endure to look upon him, or accept his greeting? Would you not shun him as a wicked demon, as the devil himself? They slew the Son of your Lord; do you have the boldness to enter with them under the same roof? After he was slain he heaped such honor upon you that he made you his brother and coheir. But you dishonor him so much that you pay honor to those who slew him on the cross, that you observe with them the fellowship of the festivals, that you go to their profane places, enter their unclean doors, and share in the tables of demons. For I am persuaded to call the fasting of the Jews a table of demons because they slew God. If the Jews are acting against God, must they not be serving the demons? Are you looking for demons to cure you? When Christ allowed the demons to enter into the swine, straightway they plunged into the sea. Will these demons spare the bodies of men? I wish they would not kill men's bodies, that they would not plot against them. But they will. The demons cast men from Paradise and deprived them the honor from above. Will they cure their bodies? That is ridiculous, mere stories. The demons know how to plot and do harm, not to cure. They do not spare souls. Tell me, then, will they spare bodies? They try to drive men from the Kingdom. Will they choose to free them from disease?

(6) Did you not hear what the prophet said? Rather, did you hear what God said through the prophet? He said that the demons can do neither good nor evil. Even if they could cure and wanted to do so-which is impossible-you must not take an indestructible and unending punishment in exchange for a slight benefit which can soon be destroyed. Will you cure your body and destroy your soul? You are making a poor exchange. Are you angering God who made your body, and are you calling to your aid the demon who plots against you?

(7) If any demon-fearing pagan has medical knowledge, will he also find it easy to win you over to worship the pagan gods? Those pagans, too, have their skill. They, too, have often cured many diseases and brought the sick back to health. Are we going to share in their godlessness on this account? Heaven forbid! Hear what Moses said to the Jews. "If there arise in the midst of you a prophet or one that says he has dreamed a dream and he foretell a sign and a wonder, and that sign or wonder which he spoke come to pass, and he say to you: "Let us go and serve strange gods whom our fathers did not know, you shall not hear the words of that prophet or dreamer".

( What Moses means is this. If some prophet rises up, he says, and performs a sign, by either raising a dead man or cleansing a leper, or curing a maimed man, and after working the wonder calls you to impiety, do not heed him just because his sign comes to pass. Why? "The Lord your God is trying you to see whether you love him with all your heart and all your soul". From this it is clear that demons do not cure. If ever God should permit demons to cure, as he might permit a man to do, his permission is given to test you-not because God does not know what you are, but that he may teach you to reject even the demons who do cure.

(9) And why do I speak of bodily cures? If any man threatens you with Gehenna unless you deny Christ, do not heed his words. If someone should promise you a kingdom to revolt from the only-begotten Son of God, turn away from him and hate him. Be a disciple of Paul and emulate those words which his blessed and noble soul exclaimed when he said: "I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, no height, nor depth, nor any other creature shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ our Lord".

(10) No angels, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor any other creature separated Paul from the love of Christ. Do you revolt to cure your body? And what excuse could we find? Certainly we must fear Christ more than Gehenna and desire him more than a kingdom. Even if we be sick, it is better to remain in ill health than to fall into impiety for the sake of a cure; for even if a demon cures you, he has hurt more than he has helped. He has helped the body, which a short time later will altogether die and rot away. But he has hurt the soul, which will never die. Kidnappers often entice little boys by offering them sweets, and cakes, and marbles, and other such things; then they deprive them of their freedom and their very life. So, too, the demons promise cure of a limb and then dash the whole salvation of the soul into the sea.

(11) Beloved, let us not put up with that; in every way let us seek to keep ourselves free from godlessness. Could Job not have heeded his wife, blasphemed against God, and been free from the disaster which beset him? "Curse God and die" she said. But he chose to suffer the pain and to waste away; he chose to endure that unbearable blow rather to blaspheme and be free from the evils which beset him. You must emulate him. If the demon shall promise you ten thousand cures from the ills which beset you, do not heed him, do not put up with him-just as Job refused to heed his wife. Chose to endure your illness rather than destroy your faith and the salvation of your soul. God does not forsake you. It is because he wishes to increase your glory that oftentimes he permits you to fall sick. Keep up your courage so that you may also hear him say: "Do you think I have dealt with you otherwise than that you may be shown to be just"?

VIII

I could have said more than this, but to keep you from forgetting what I have said, I shall bring my homily to an end here with the words of Moses: "I call heaven and earth to witness against you". If any of you, whether you are here present or not, shall go to the spectacle of the Trumpets, or rush off to the synagogue, or go up to the shrine of Matrona, or take part in fasting, or share in the Sabbath, or observe any other Jewish ritual great or small, I call heaven and earth as my witnesses that I am guiltless of the blood of all of you.

(2) These words will stand by your side and mine on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. If you heed them, they will bring you great confidence; if you heed them not or conceal anyone who dares to do those things, my words shall stand against you as bitter accusations. "For I have not shrunk from declaring to you the whole counsel of God".

(3) I have deposited the money with the bankers. It remains for you to increase the deposit and to use the profit from my words for the salvation of your brothers. Do you find it an oppressive burden to denounce those who commit these sins? It is an oppressive burden to remain silent. For this silence makes you an enemy to God and brings destruction both to you who conceal such sinners and to those whose sins go unrevealed. How much better it is to become hateful to our fellow servants for saving them to provoke God's anger against yourselves. Even if your fellow servant be vexed with you now, he will not be able to harm you but will be grateful later on for his cure. But if you seek to win your fellow servant's favor, if you remain silent and hurt him by concealing his sin, God will exact from you the ultimate penalty. Your silence will make God your foe and will hurt your brother; if you denounce him and reveal his sin, you will make God propitious and benefit your brother and you will gain as a friend one who was crazed but who learned from experience that you served him well.

(4) Do not think, then, that you are doing your brothers a favor if you should see them pursuing some absurdity and should fail to accuse them with all zeal. If you lose a cloak, do you not consider as your foe not only the one who stole it but also the man who knew of the theft and refused to denounce the thief? Our common Mother (the Church) has lost not a cloak but a brother. The devil stole him and now holds him in Judaism. You know who stole him; you know him who was stolen. Do you see me lighting, as it were, the lamp of my instruction and searching everywhere in my grief? And do you stand silent, refusing to denounce him? What excuse will you have? Will the Church not reckon you among her worst enemies? Will she not consider you a foe and destroyer?

(5) Heaven forbid that anyone who hears my words of advice should commit such a sin as to betray the brother for whom Christ died. Christ poured out his blood on his account. Are you too reluctant to utter a word on this account? I urge you not to be so reluctant. Right after you leave here, stir yourselves to the chase and let each of you bring me one of those suffering from this disease.

(6) But heaven forbid that so many be sick with it. Let two or three, or ten or twenty of you bring me one man. One the day you do and when I see in your nets the game you have caught, I will set before you a more plentiful table. If I see that the advice I gave today has been put to work, I shall be more zealous in undertaking the cure of those men, and this will be a greater boon both for you and them.

(7) Do not regard my words lightly. Be scrupulous in hunting out those who suffer from this sickness. Let the women search for the women, the men for the men, the slaves for the slaves, the freemen for the freemen, and the children for the children. Come all of you to our next meeting with such success that you win praise from me-and, before any praise of mine, that you obtain, from God a great and indescribable reward which in abundant measure surpasses the labors of those who succeed. May all of us obtain this by the grace and loving-kindness of our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom and with whom be glory to the Father together with the Holy Spirit now and forever, world without end. Amen.

[phishna]

And I can not "blaspheme the Lord Jesus" because Jesus is fiction. So you think Jesus is Lord?  Please explain to me how Jesus is Lord, what does Lord mean to you, define Lord and Jesus relation as this lord.

Jesus is the Word of God made flesh.  

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. [4] In him was life, and the life was the light of men. [5] And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

God created mankind, giving him free will; but mankind used his free will to sin against God.  The natural consequence of sin is death. But God is Merciful and so God sent His only Son into the world so that we might have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting. [17] For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him. [18] He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [19] And this is the judgment: because the light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the light: for their works were evil. [20] For every one that doth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, that his works may not be reproved.

Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.

You claim:  "Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. ".  Ok.  Do you have any proof, outside of a Bible quote, that Jesus is this?

You claim: "God created mankind, giving him free will; but mankind used his free will to sin against God."  Ok.  Do you have any proof, not a Bible quote, that:

1.  There is a God.

2.  That this god created mankind.

3.  That man has free will (many philosophers say we don't).

4.  That if we have free will it comes from this god.

5.  That sin is a real thing, that sin seperates us from god, etc.

6.  That there is an afterlife, that the afterlife has anything to do with the Jew god or Jesus.

Remember, you can not use the Bible as proof of your arguments.