Propaganda is making the Truth Movement Totally Irrelevant

[LatinAmericanview]

I found this on Outlaw Forum. I am interested in your opinions. I should say that I agree with this. I would only add citations to support certain claims. I would also say that the problem has only really existed in its current form for about 150 years and as an ideology between 800 and 500 years years.

Here is the newest article on our main page. Andre wrote it. It is probably best if you read it here:

http://www.outlawjournalism.com/?p=56

as the post is heavily annotated with hyperlinks which are not present here on the forum. It would also be nice if the forum crowd would leave comment replies on the main page, as I think a lot of people are going to be interested in what others have to say about this article, and also hesitant to give their own thoughts until they hear other people's.

Thanks.
--Andre

***



There are innumerable propaganda campaigns being launched within what has become known as the Truth Movement. I would like to discuss a few of the most prominent aspects of these campaigns, in the hopes of helping folks weed through some of the disinformation. We are going to have to understand the true nature of what we are dealing with if we are ever going be able to make an effective stand against it.

With the popularization of the internet and the monumental increase in the accessibility of information, it was necessary to subvert and neutralize any grassroots opposition to the coming global system and the mechanisms behind it, which would inevitably form if given the chance, by any means necessary. The preferred method for doing this has been to take the basic truths about what is happening, mix it with bizarre, fantastical, or emotionally significant propaganda, and then create "leaders" to distribute this tainted information.

What happens is that people are intrinsically drawn to the truth that is given by these seemingly heroic leaders that they are presented with. They then accept the disinformation that said truth is mixed with, as a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down, and because they have begin to idolize the leaders that they have been given, as it often seems humans are genetically programmed to do.

The first major result of this is that when a person tries to share the true information with other people, it is immediately dismissed, as they will not only relay the actual hard facts, but also disinformation, which falls into the category of "conspiracy theory" (the term "conspiracy theorist" has been popularized by the media as a derogatory term for anyone who does not accept the official propaganda line; sadly, many people have taken this term, and now refer to themselves as such). In fact, if one were to simply present the official plan by the elite of the world to create a one world scientific state, there would be no need for any type of theorizing, as the people and organizations planning this agenda have been rather straightforward about where they intend to take the world in their own publications over the last 100 years.

The second major result is that the various groups, following their respective leaders, fight with one another exponentially more than they attempt to inform others about what is happening. This is hopeless in the extreme, and seems to be escalating every day, as people are driven by their own egos, rather than a genuine desire to save our species from the hell that awaits it.

If we are able to cut through the mass of disinformation, and get to the heart of what is happening, we can all work together to present this global conspiracy in a factual manner to those around us, thus leading a greater portion of the public into a movement geared at developing realistic means of creating a real future for humanity.

There is a propaganda campaign geared at each and every personality type. Some of the propaganda lines encourage people to develop tunnel vision when looking at the global agenda, focusing on one group, when in fact the system is monolithic in nature, encompassing all institutions of power across the globe. Others neutralize people by pushing them off into religious or semi-religious fantasy. Both methods are equally effective.

I doubt that anyone reading this will not be offended by some aspect of it. I am not asking you to agree with everything I present here; I am merely asking you to read it, and instead of dismissing it immediately, let it stew in your brain for a while. Perhaps you will have an epiphany.

I am not prepared to call out anyone in particular as a government agent, I simply wish to state my criticism of the various elements of the Truth Movement. Propaganda may be distributed knowingly or unknowingly, and unless direct evidence is provided against someone, there is really no way of knowing for certain what the true circumstances are. However, it seems clear that a large percentage of the people working in this field are probably doing so with the blessing of the ruling powers, if not working directly for them. We all remember when the right-wing pundits of AM radio were called into a meeting with George Bush, to discuss propaganda strategy. I have no reason to believe that the alternative media does not function in a similar, though much more clever way. The American shortwave radio circuit was originally setup by the CIA, supposedly to combat Soviet propaganda, and the government has admitted to using the internet for counterintelligence operations. These are things one should certainly keep in mind when analyzing these self-professed beacons of truth.

For the sake of simplicity, I will try to separate each piece of propaganda into a category. In reality, all of the campaigns mix various pieces together, to form mind-boggling propaganda collages. Below are brief summarizations of the origins and effects of the main elements of the propaganda campaigns as they are presented by the would-be leaders of this movement.

The Alien Agenda

One of the largest and most bizarre disinformation campaigns is based around the concept of beings from other planets somehow being involved with or responsible for the conspiracy. David Icke, Michael Tsarion, Jordan Maxwell, the Red Ice Creations web radio program, and the biggest of all, the Coast to Coast AM radio program (founded by Freemason and advocate of world government, Art Bell), are among those presenting this view and mixing it all up with the facts. They play off of the endless amount of science fiction that a large percentage of the western world has been fascinated by for decades.

All of this started in the 50's, when the CIA began working with film studios to produce movies about invasion from outer space. Given that humans are biologically designed to base their understanding of the world on their own experiences, the simulated experience of audio visual entertainment directly manipulates an individual's perception of reality on a subconscious level.

Originally this propaganda was invented as a means to see if they could get enough people to believe in the possibility of an actual invasion from outer space. If they could, the idea was that they would stage a fake one, and use it as a means to create a world government, following the script of The Day the Earth Stood Still. This idea was thrown out by the Club of Rome, one of the high level think-tanks which scripts world events; they chose instead to use the manmade global warming mythology as the world unification mechanism. The Alien Agenda is still used as a psychological operation against those who are waking up to the truth.

It is also a very effective means of covering up the fact that the government has had the technology and has been building anti-gravity planes for decades; anyone who sees one assumes it must be aliens, and is afraid to discuss it for fear of ridicule, or does discuss it and is looked at as insane.

The Alien Agenda has been largely promoted by mainstream media outlets such as the Discovery Channel and the History Channel, and has now moved even further into the arena of what are generally thought of as "respectable publications", being routinely reported on by major newspapers. Many of the UFO groups are funded by the United Nations, and the Disclosure Project was bankrolled by the Rockefellers.

The largest part of the Alien Agenda is entirely based on the erroneous scholarship of the Freemason Zachariah Sitchin. Sitchin is a professor of ancient Near Eastern studies, who despite the ridicule of every single expert in his field, has incessantly pushed the idea that ancient aliens from a planet called Niburu came to earth and altered human DNA in order to create a creature capable of doing labor for them. He does this by asserting the characters of Babylonian Mythology, which others would argue simply symbolize various aspects of human existence in the same manner as the gods of Greek, Roman, Egyptian, or any other mythology, are in fact real entities from outer space.

I have no desire to discuss whether or not the existence of aliens somewhere in the universe is likely or unlikely. The fact is there is absolutely no evidence that aliens from outer space are present here on earth, or have ever been.

Those who believe we are fighting technologically advanced creatures from outer space, which in fact created us in the first place, are helpless to do anything to oppose the agenda. How can you fight the beings who created you? They also live in a fantasy world where nothing is objectively true, and thus are much less serious than those who look at the facts exclusively. They are among those who refer to themselves as "conspiracy theorists", and they consider the quest to understand what is going on in the world as more of a hobby than the key element of a life and death situation.

New Age Solutions

The New Age religion was invented by the Freemasons, and is in fact simply a rehashing of the official dogma of Freemasonry, which is in turn based on the ancient Mystery religions, the most prominent modern incarnation of which is Hinduism. There is actually nothing "new" about it.

The official magazine of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, now simply called "The Scottish Rite Journal, was from the early 1900s up through the 1970s, entitled The New Age Magazine. They discussed in this magazine how they would bring in the New Age religion, under a psudeoscientific guise, to overtake Christianity, Islam, and the other old religions. Freemasonic scholar Manly P. Hall wrote extensively about this coming new religion. The Theosophical society, given a Masonic charter and founded in 1875 by Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, was intended to bring women into the religion of Freemasonry. The writings of Blavatsky and her followers, along with the works of Freemason and MI-6 agent Aleister Crowley, laid down the entire premise for the New Age religion. Though the New Age movement is a thriving religion in and of itself, widely promoted by such individuals as Deepak Chopra and Oprah Winfrey, I would like to focus here on how it is being incorporated into the Truth Movement, using pieces of truth as a vehicle to recruit adepts into the fold of this neo-Masonic system.

The New Age religious propaganda within the Truth Movement is usually, but not always, coupled with the Alien Agenda. The afore mentioned promoters of the Alien Agenda are all also promoters of the New Age religion.

The key dogma of the New Age religion is that there is Kabbalistic doctrine that there is no truth other than the truth of the individual's own belief system. From this stems the ideology that reality is an illusion, and that human beings are able to effect change in the physical world by simply thinking about it. The people promoting this concept within the context of the Truth Movement are talking about using these magic powers to fight the New World Order.

David Icke and others parroting him have claimed that if we stop thinking about the negative things that are happening, the people in control (who he believes are actually space lizards) will stop being able to use the energy of our thoughts, and then the whole system will simply disappear and we will all be free. Michael Tsarion, follower and promoter of both Crowley and Blavatsky, says we can use divination and tarot cards to channel our spirit energy to fight them. And so on. I should not have to explain that if in fact reality is real, which I hope most people still believe to be the case, making people believe that it isn't would be very beneficial to those in power.

Being that the New Age religion is basically Pantheism, it has all sorts of different themes, all of which are being mixed in with the Truth Movement. These include many different aspects of Freemasonry, such as sacred numerology and geometry, past lives, the Sacred nature of ancient Atlantis, etc., as well as even more bizarre concepts, such as using drugs to contact creatures from other dimensions (a concept heavily promoted by Alistier Crowley) and setting pieces of metal and quartz into resin shapes as a way to harness the energy of the orgasm to fight the negative energy released by cell phone towers.

The New Agers also have their own version of the Christian "Rapture" (described below), with their 2012 mythology. They believe, based on some very shoddy (read: made up) scholarship claiming that the Mayan Calendar (most scholars in the field admit they don't even know if it is a calendar) supposedly predicting the dawn of a New Age in the year 2012. There is also a large body of fabricated science talking about a galactic alignment that no actual astronomer has ever even heard of. The idea is that some energy within the universe will come and cleanse the planet of "negative energy", and maybe bring some sort of technological utopia with it. Conversely, some New Agers claim that all life will be wiped from earth. It is all a laugh-down-your-sleeve inside joke of the elite who are funding this propaganda, as the plan is to have the United Nations take over as supreme world government in the year 2012. Many of the New Agers will celebrate this.

The most disturbing aspect of the New Age movement is it's obsession with channeling disincarnate entities. This is sometimes under the guise of alien being or inter-dimensional super-intelligences speaking through people, and sometimes under the guise of ascended masters reincarnating into people and asserting control over their bodies. This is also a key part of Hinduism and Freemasonry. I believe this practice of channeling is very dangerous. One should never allow or believe to allow an outside entity into ones own mind.

The New Age is incredibly fascinating, even to ones such as myself who are able to see through it. I have found the works of Sitchin and Von Daniken to be very entertaining. Many of the people caught up in the New Age movement are simply fascinated by all of the journeys of the imagination the leaders of the movement are taking them on, and are eventually able to break out of it. I have been contacted by many people who have discovered my work, who described to me the epiphanies they came to, breaking free and seeing the New Age Agenda for what it is. For these people there is hope. Regrettably, there are many within the movement who can be called "true believers", and just as the followers of any dogmatic religion, they will not be swayed. These people can be left to their fantasies and 320$ DVD sets, and the real Truth Movement will be all the better for their having done so.

Jesus Will Save Us

I am not opposed to using the teachings of Jesus Christ as a source from which to draw one's personal spiritual and moral outlook on life. In fact, I think this is very admirable, if one is true to the essence of the teachings. Sadly, most Christians are not true to the teachings themselves, and instead follow the mass propaganda that has been distributed by the corporate Christian establishment over the last 100 years or so. Because this is something with deep emotional ties, as it is propaganda that one receives as a child in a brilliantly manipulative way, those who begin to learn the truth about what is happening can often be funneled back into irrelevancy when facts are mixed with the New Agey science fiction that is modern Christianity.

The leaders of this particular branch of truth movement propaganda preach that "Jesus is the answer", not in the sense that if we are guided by the teachings of Christ we will be able to effectively combat the global agenda, but in the sense that if we do nothing, Jesus will come down from outer space and save us.

I am not going to go into a dissertation on the history of dispensationalist Christianity here, but the "Rapture", which is the New Age idea that Jesus will come down out of the sky to save everyone from the "end times", was invented in the 1800s by a man named John Nelson Darby, and had not hitherto been a part of Christian eschatology.

Many Christians who are informed about the general workings of things believe it is all being done by God as part of some plan he has, and that if they were to fight against it, they would be fighting against God himself. They also believe that if they simply wait and watch it all happen, Jesus will come down out of the sky and save them.

As long as people believe that what is happening is God's will, and they cannot fight it, they won't. Combine this fatalistic perspective with the notion that they will all be saved from suffering when Jesus comes down out of the sky to save them, and you have completely neutralized an entire body of otherwise well informed people.

There is no God in heaven who would force this hellish future upon his creation. I believe we were created by some thing for some purpose, and that purpose is most certainly not to sit by and wait for hell to break loose, claiming that our inaction is in accordance with the will of God. A benevolent Creator would allow us to choose our own path, and that is what we must do. A choice not to act is still a choice, and by choosing inaction, the Christians are dooming themselves to unimaginable hell.

The Christian perspective on the conspiracy is often combined with or played off against the New Age conspiracy movement.

Taking Back America

Though I understand the instinctive desire people have to defend their homeland and their way of life, what is called the American Patriot Movement, promoted all over the internet by followers of the shows which air on Genesis Communications Network and Republic Broadcasting Network, is for the most part chasing a rapidly fading dream. We can not ever return to the way this country once was, not through political means, nor through violent revolution. America is gone forever. We have been completely integrated with the global system to such an extreme degree. This is no going back. We can only move forward.

We are not going to elect Ron Paul to save us, as the media controls elections, and if that were not the case, the Diebold voting machines do, and if somehow he did get elected, they would kill him. I was supportive of Ron Paul when he first started, as it was exciting to see someone actually presenting real issues to the general public. Quickly though people stopped understanding that this was the point, and started believing he could somehow win, take office, and save the world. It was utterly ridiculous, and I think it created a lot of disillusion among the people who got caught up in it.

Neither are we going to fight some civil war against the government. I have a sort of respect for the gun-toting Rednecks who believe this is possible, but they are living in a fantasy world no different from the people talking about 12-foot-tall talking lizards from outer space. The government wants us to fight them with guns. They have been planning this scenario for decades, building up this internal army of cops under the guise of the drug war. They have admitted in the recent DoD report, DCDC Global Strategic Trends Programme 2007-2036 (pdf), that they are going to spray us with chemical gas and nuke us if we riot when the system collapses. They also have futuristic space weaponry, capable of targeting a person with satellite based lasers. Violent revolution is exactly what we do not need.

When analyzing the Patriot Movement, one must also consider that these people are making an incredible amount of money. Of course, all of the people involved in the "leadership" of any of these movements are making money (which I personally find very hard to reconcile, given the monumental importance of all of this), but the Patriots make it in a very specific, exploitative way: they sell fear. All of the products they advertise, from gold to solar power to terror attack preparation supplies to body cleansing formulas, are sold to people who are scared of what is happening or going to happen. When selling fear, one must keep their target market constantly afraid. Though this is a very effective marketing strategy, I think there is a bigger agenda behind it. When people are in a state of endless fear, they become almost catatonic; they are incapable of thinking strait, and thus incapable of even functioning properly in their personal lives, let alone effectively combating the system.

These fear-based broadcasters bring their listeners to this state by creating hysteria, blowing things out of proportion, and also by overloading people with rapid bursts of information in an erratic and overwhelming fashion. I myself stopped updating my old news site, on which I would post at least 100 articles a week, and switched to this present format, due to the response I was getting from readers, which seemed to be very panicked and confused. This is called "information overload". Understanding every minute detail of everything that is happening is unnecessary. We need only to understand the big picture, and then the details are irrelevant.

The people involved in the Patriot Movement are not far off base. They simply need to come to terms with the fact that we are never going fight this system using their system of politics, nor are we going to fight it using their system of violent warfare. Many of the broadcasters are beginning to take baby-steps toward putting things into a larger context, and I sincerely hope that this upward trend in the quality of Patriot radio will continue indefinitely. Perhaps the disillusion surrounding this Ron Paul fiasco will help move them in the right direction. Most of those who call themselves Patriots are very well informed, and given this, along with their vast numbers, getting them to the point where they can really effect change by seeing the system for exactly what it is and hitting ot head-on is probably our best hope.

Jesuits and the Black Pope Control Everything

The entire "Jesuits run the planet" propaganda movement appears to stem from one man, a very silly snake oil salesman named Eric John Phelps. It is also promoted by RBN broadcaster Greg Szymanski, supposed "Illuminati defector" Leo Zagami, and others who all generally parrot Phelps. Phelps' main tactic is to go into long spiels about the actions of the Masons or the Jews, giving real information, and then at the end attach some nonsensical reason why they are all controlled by the Vatican. It is almost impossible to believe that anyone buys this stuff, as it is by far the weakest of all of the propaganda campaigns. I have often said that if the Jesuits were running everything, these people would have to be working for them, to make the very concept look so incredibly stupid.

The Jesuit Agenda propaganda campaign largely appeals to Protestant Christians, who have had decades of priming in the theory that the Catholic Church is the Anti-Christ.

If we were to go back a few hundred years, we would find a world where the "Jesuits run the world" idea would hold a lot more water. For over a millennium, the Catholic Church was the main governing body of the Western world, driving virtually all of the wars of empire. The Catholic Church is still a reasonably influential institution of power, but over the last couple centuries, the torch has been passed on to secular forces, and the largest part of the world system is effectively run by banks, corporations, intelligence agencies and the military industrial complex.

It is worthy of note that a few months ago, a member of the Outlaw Forum did some digging, and uncovered the fact that the figurehead of the Jesuit propaganda movement, Eric John Phelps, through his company, Lowvehm, which also publishes his book, is involved in the trading of Israeli diamonds and the selling of New Age magic machines, along with "financial consultation". I find it very interesting that a man involved in such lucrative business ventures would also be asking for donations on his webpage.

The Jesuit conspiracy believers are totally separated from reality, and incapable of making sense of anything that goes on in the world. They are also some of the most vitriolic and hateful promoters of infighting within the Truth Movement. However, many of them are reasonably informed about the various machinations of the system, and if they are able to sacrifice their egos and break their paradigm, deny their Israeli diamond merchant hero, and see the bigger picture, they too are capable of becoming effective members of a real opposition.

The Jews Did It

The view that the New World Order is entirely controlled by Jewish forces is erroneous, but more rooted in reality than any of the other popular conspiracy belief systems. It is well known to anyone who has even casually researched the subject of the global conspiracy that Jewish bankers play a monumental role in world events. The main problem with this belief is that it denies the ancient historical nature of what is happening, and also dismisses any evidence relating to people who are not Jewish as irrelevant.

People were oppressed long before the Jewish bankers came onto the scene. The entire history of human civilization consists of a singular system, in which a tiny elite minority rules over the masses of peasantry.

Many people promoting the concept of an entirely Jewish conspiracy, such as Darryl Bradford Smith, also routinely delve into various nonsense about China and Russia being controlled by different powers than the West, basing this on the idea that there are supposedly not Jews running said countries governments. This leads to a lot of confusion and unnecessary fear-mongering, as we are in fact already under a global system, controlled through the mechanisms I have already mentioned.

If in fact China and Russia are not controlled by the Jews these people rail against, than they are hard-pressed to make an argument that Jews are responsible for all evil in the world, as Russia, and particularly China, are extremely oppressive countries.

I have written an entire essay on the euphemistically titled "Anti-Zionist Movement", so I will not go into it any further here.

The Zeitgeist Movement

The first Zeitgeist film contained some shoddy scholarship in its first segment about the historical nature of Christ, but was generally truthful. The second film however, Zeitgeist: Addendum, is promoting a bizarre science fiction future, where a communistic global government controls a utopia run by robots. The first film was apparently designed to set up a fan base to sell the weird religious ideology of the second film to.

Both films are heavily produced, having been back by some extremely questionable entities, and have been virally promoted across the web. Luckily, most of those who already understood the parts of the film that were true were informed enough to see through the neo-utopian communist propaganda the film promoted. Unfortunately, many people who found this information for the first time through the Zeitgeist films, due to their wide distribution, and are now liable to view any further information they look at regarding the global conspiracy through this tainted lens.

The idea of a communist utopia where everything is controlled by machines and no one works is particularly dangerous in a society where the majority of grown adults have been convinced they are without any manner of responsibility beyond working for a paycheck. These people have the mentality that they have the right to remain perpetual children, as they have been trained to believe that experts are running their lives for them, and they must simply let the big smart scientists deal with all of the issues that effect their lives. People who have swallowed this idea that there are people smarter and more capable than them running the world for the benefit of the masses are the intended audience of Zeitgeist: Addendum. If the machines take away the last piece of responsibility they retain, working for a paycheck, they will have nothing left to do but play their lives away.

The fact of the matter is that what they are promoting in Zeitgeist: Addendum is nothing short of the actual plan that the global elite intend to implement; the one that authors like Aldous Huxley, Bertrand Russell and H.G. Wells wrote about decades ago. It has also been written about extensively in Freemasonic, Rosicrucian, and theosophical works for at least a hundred years. The film however is quite misleading about the nature of this plan, as it leaves out large and extremely significant facts about the proposed future utopia.

Firstly it leaves out the natural fact that in order for a world government utopia to function properly, the lives of individuals would have to be heavily regulated by a monolithic control mechanism. For example, in a world free of disease, where technological means of life extension would obviously be prevalent, reproduction would have to be seriously regulated. This would entail Chinese style forced abortions and/or compulsory sterilization. In order to keep order in a singular system, the thoughts and beliefs of people would also have to be regulated. The old religions and ideologies would have to be outlawed so as to keep people from soiling utopia. This would initially require a vast military force and requisite "re-education", as well as concentration camps and mass graves for those who were unwilling to be "rehabilitated". And so on. This is something that seems obvious enough to anyone capable of critical thought, but the type of person who fantasizes about a utopian science fiction world is going to be prone to shutting off any psychological mechanism that would threaten this awesome flight of the imagination.

The film also negates to mention the part of the plan about killing off large portions of the general public who the planners feel are unfit to enter into their utopian New Age, which ties into the above mentioned necessity of eradicating all memory of the old system. The people planning this are elitist by nature, and thus have a deep rooted hatred for those they refer to as the herd. In a future where machines are capable of taking care of the labor once done by the herd, the herd will be eliminated. The masters of the world have no desire to expend resources just to allow you to play all day.

The bottom line is that any system with a centralized control mechanism, which a global government controlled by machines is the definitive example of, will inevitably be taken over by psychopaths. The entire history of civilization attests to this. In this case, it is the psychopathic elite planning this system, so the idea that it could somehow serve the people in a benevolent manner is light years beyond ridiculous.

People who believe that this technological utopia is a good idea are capable only of working for the agenda, not against it.

The Real Deal

When we look at recorded history, we see a virtually unbroken line of slavery. The huddled masses of the human species have been continually used as a means to an end by a psychopathic elite minority. We must realize that this is what we are fighting. It is not a specific group of people, nor is it some fantastical group of space creatures; it is a system of domination, behind which is an ideology of elitism and a religion that justifies it.

The future that is being planned for us is a nightmare, and our only viable option is to oppose it. This is nothing short of a battle for the survival of the human race.

I hope I haven't offended anyone too deeply with my criticism of the various mainstream branches of this movement. I will ask you all again to think it through before dismissing it. In future articles I plan to delve deeper into the nature of the system, and what we can actually do to oppose it, but I felt it was necessary to first clear some of the nonsense out of the way.

I hope that you will all join me as I attempt to do my part to move our species into a future in which we can all live our lives out in peace, and pass that opportunity on to our children and the generations to come.

Stay Free.

–Andre
_________________
"dont call the wolf, but if he comes dont interfere in the wolfs issues just walk a way." --laBritta

Response by Khanverse:

The map isn't the territory.

So if you're gonna diss the variety of maps in existence and circulation, by means of which, people traverse the grand conspiracy of the evil psychopathic "them", you might consider offering a viable alternative "map", or some other stand alone system which is represents a more accurate understanding of what we're up against.

It's the same problem when linguists whine about the limits of language as a tool to accurately represent reality but don't offer anything of a solution to this problem.

Further, as I've endlessly tried to convince you, history is NOT a tale of homogenous slavery. Besides, there isn't enough information about any "non-civilized" tribal society of the distant past whose diametric opposition to the least oppressive form of "civilization" can be reliably quantified.

There are just as many gray areas and blind spots in your map as anyone else's brother.

[Ralph Furely]

I just posted another article from outlaw journalism and was wondering if Andre is the same Andre i see sometimes on Khans phorum?  
same guy that did an interview with him?  (which ive yet to listen to while it sits on my desktop)

anyway havent read this yet, bout to now.  just wanted to pose that question as soon as i saw the same name.

[LatinAmericanview]

Post the link to the interview please

[Ralph Furely]

yea i just posted my comments in regards to the article there, i was just wondering about this. didnt really think i would bother putting this question in there..

anyway, liked the article, i had issues with one part of it, which i pointed out in my comment.  but for the most part, good stuff.  pretty on point to me.  
(except the part i took issue with )

[memory hole]

I bow down to the greatness of that article. Superb!

[Ralph Furely]

check the black pope'rs comment.  from troy space.  lol

[LatinAmericanview]

Where? You knuckle head lol! Post links! I visit very few websites and do not know the forums you speak of. Please post links

[LatinAmericanview]

Byrd  19/11/2008 at 11:53 am

http://www.outlawjournalism.com/?p=56

i really liked this, until we got to the part about Daryl Bradford Smith. in the zionism section, if you will. i dont know why you chose to link to the page you did when mentioning him. that almost killed the whole article for me right there. that whole situation was ridiculous and the work of provocateur Hufschmid. it also showed that Daryl is for real and got very passionate about Eric not fighting the good fight with him, and not having his back. he yelled at him for being an idiot, basically. i dont see the problem with this and i certainly dont see how anyone could still even be bringing it up, let alone making a fuss over it.
it did nothing at all to show that Daryl is somehow an agent. on the contrary it showed the opposite. so why you linked to that page, instead of Daryls site, i do not get. i see that as just a little more mud slinging in his direction, something im sure he is used to. he has been so spot on about so much, and has taken more abuse from the alternative media than anyone else i can think of, that to take away from him by linking to that garbage instead of his actual work, is really beyond me.

also, what you said about him in that paragraph is wrong in regards to russia and china. he does not say they are controlled by different forces that that which are controlling the west. in fact just the other day on a CII broadcast he said just that, that the same groups or interests controlling us in the west are indeed controlling those two specific countries. so for anyone to think russia is going to somehow save us from these bankers is ludicrous.
in one sentence just last week he said the opposite of what you are contending here.

because of this i am apprehensive about sending it along to friends. i do not want to promote these false views of Daryl, his work, and his site.

other than that i thought this piece was great
especially liked the zeitgeist run down. well said.

[Ralph Furely]

Where? You knuckle head lol! Post links! I visit very few websites and do not know the forums you speak of. Please post links

lol  well i was referring to the comment section of the article you posted from andre, in regards to the black pope comment this guy left.
as for your post before that, i didnt realize you were asking where that interview was.  my bad.  i dont know where i got it from, possibly Khans phorum, but months ago.  i just have it saved on my computer...
havent even listened to it yet, was just wondering if this is the same guy.  im assuming it is..

[Ralph Furely]

well its fitting then which camp he rolls with  :lol:

buncha weirdos.

[LatinAmericanview]

Well there are several places where this article has been posted. I got it from outlaw forums but the comments are listed at outlawjournalism. The Andre interview can be found at Khanverse Forum. I listen to most of it but they- meaning Khanverse and Andre lacked certain understanding of the political situation. However, it was without a doubt a conversation among thinking humans. It was a real treat. The base understanding of the problem is impressive. I encourage everyone to listen to this conversation between these men.  I have a few minor points of discontention but  I would rather emphasize our mutual points of understanding. One easy point to clarify is Slavery! It is very easy.  Slaves can not own property. For example, in American everyone can purchase a house and some can actually paid it off. However, AT ANY POINT IN TIME THE GOVERNMENT CAN TAKE THE PROPERTY AWAY. THEREFORE YOU OR ANY HOMEOWNER DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO PRIVATE PROPERTY. REMEMBER  A RIGHT CAN NOT BE TAKEN AWAY! LET US LOOK AT LIFE OR LIBERTY. AT ANYTIME TIME THE US GOVERNMENT CAN TAKE THESE AWAY FROM YOU IF IT DEEMS IT NECESSARY. THEREFORE YOU DO NOT HAVE THESE RIGHTS; HENCE YOU ARE A SLAVE.  Most people find these concepts confusing. I suspect it is part of the training you receive in the educational system. THE LAST BIT OF CONFUSION IS JEWS AS AN ADMINISTRATIVE CLASS.TAKE A LOOK AT THIS HISTORICAL EXAMPLE:

Baghdad and the Mamelukes: 9th century AD

The Abbasid caliphs of Baghdad unwittingly create a group (administrative class) of considerable power in the Middle East. To strengthen their armies, they acquire slaves from the nomadic Turks of central Asia. These slaves, who become known as Mamelukes (from the Arabic mamluk, 'owned'), distinguish themselves in the service of the caliphate and are often given positions of military responsibility. Well placed to advance their own interests, they frequently take the opportunity.

The first Mameluke to seize extensive power is Ahmad ibn Tulun. In the early 870s he takes control of Egypt. By 877 he has conquered the Mediterranean coast through Palestine and up into Syria.
        

This first Mameluke dynasty lasts only a few decades, until 905. But the Mamelukes retain their importance and power throughout the Middle East. They have the natural strength of a small, self-aware military elite. They speak their own Turkish language in addition to the Arabic of their official masters (the weak caliphs in Baghdad, whose rule technically extends throughout the Muslim Middle East). And they constantly replenish their numbers with new recruits from the fierce tribes of central Asia and the Caucasus.

The height of Mameluke power begins in 1250, when they again seize control of Egypt. Ten years later they confront the Mongols.

[LatinAmericanview]

Ottomans: AD 1517-1831

As a disciplined caste of soldiers and administrators, the Mamelukes are of use to the Ottoman sultans in the administration of middle eastern regions. By the 18th century they have recovered so much power in Egypt that they are beyond the control of the Ottoman governors of the province. And from 1749 Baghdad is officially ruled by Mamelukes as a province within the empire.

Eventually their power proves intolerable. Ottoman troops massacre the Mamelukes in Egypt in 1811, and destroy their counterparts in Baghdad in 1831.

[Ralph Furely]

wow  thats some interesting info.  good stuff.
thanks for the heads up on that interview as well, ill have to go check it out now.  i have gained the motivation

[GordZilla]

As far as I can tell, the only one who made any sense here, so far, has been Kahnverse and , as usual, Andre has a whole lot of words with nothing to say.

And Zestiest 1 and 2 were crap from first minute to the end (both episodes), if you find a cow patty with a daisy pedal mixed in with it, is it not still considered shit in your mind?

Understanding the jew, cannot be done fully, without an understanding of God. PERIOD – and 'religion' is not needed for this.
You can convince yourselves otherwise, but it will be you who will live in fantasy (this is for Andre himself)

Still waiting for the "real deal" Andre.

[Ralph Furely]

Understanding the jew, cannot be done fully, without an understanding of God. PERIOD – and 'religion' is not needed for this.

you think>??  i dont really see where u get that from, but then again im not into this whole god thing,
so if thats how u go about figuring this shit out, cool.

[LatinAmericanview]

Lets leave God out of this. Lets talk about organized Monotheism.  On second thought please Gordo leave my thread alone.

[Anonymous]

LOL, at it again is he?  What a guy!  2 thumbs up for persistence I suppose

[GordZilla]

And yet, never answered  -just told to hush ....

but in fairness, and as stated, that was more directed at Andre .

I'll leave it alone, becuase I know Khanverse has it covered anyways. but this was never directed at you in the first place Latin.

At it again? what's that I'm "at" ?

[Ralph Furely]

it.

[LatinAmericanview]

Ok fun time is over! Can everyone see the relationship between property and Slavery? Does everyone understand the what an administrative class is? Good! Test on Friday

[Anonymous]

Thanks for posting the piece by Andre.  Here is my comment that I posted on his site, for those interested:

Great article.  Thank you for writing it up.

1.  I don't agree that DBS thinks China and Russia are independent of the system.  Where do you get this from?  Maybe I am wrong... please share.

2.  Using that page (newsforthewest) as an attempt at character assassination is not an honest way about invalidating the information one provides.  Quite deceptive on your part.  Why would you not link to his site itself?  It disappointed me to see this tactic used on an otherwise great article.

3.  The 'Jews' are not alone responsible for the bad things, but they do play a large part, which I think you agree on, since you say: "The view that the New World Order is entirely controlled by Jewish forces is erroneous", and from reading http://www.outlawjournalism.com/?p=16.  You do not negate the current impact those so-called 'Jews' have in the current situation we find ourselves in.  And yes, there are definitely other players in the game, even at this stage, but a semantic issue is always who is pulling the strings... those we can identify and see are at the level administrating things, i.e. a major portion of the financial system as you mentioned in anti-Zionist essay you wrote, or some hidden hands as some people propose.  Proving hidden hands we cannot identify to be at the current steering wheel is like trying to prove the existence of something that cannot be proven, i.e. 'God'.  It doesn't mean things are not the assumed unprovable way, but I prefer to go with evidence that suppositions and the like.  If you have some to contradict the evidence that so-called self professed 'Jews' are in a majority position of influence in the current system, please share, as I am ignorant of it, sorry

When taking point #1 #2 into consideration on your rebuttal of 'Jewish' so-called control, your argument becomes rather weak, wouldn't you say?  Maybe an addendum to add a less intellectually dishonest tactic in needed if you are to convince others.  I think just putting the link to the anti-Z essay would be best.  For the record, I agree with you.  But, personal character discrediting is not required though, is it?

And it is a relatively new part (the 'Jews' in major positions of control) from the accepted chronology of history and the accepted accounts of history.  Do you believe everything you are told about history?  Including the so-called 'hidden' history?  How do you know what is real about historic accounts?  I recommend looking into something called 'New Chonology' by Fomenko.  If you are not dogmatic and are in search of an accurate and logical representation of 'truth', it can open up avenues of investigation to understand how great of a deception we are in, in regards to the complexity and capacity of fabrications and falsification of history.  He uses mathematical and statistical analysis to bring doubt and suspicion about some accepted accounts and overall chronology of our current human history.

On them elitist desire of a minority to control the majority, another direction of research I have briefly looked at, but not properly, is called Ponerology.


Thank you for the article once more.  Everyone should read it.  My problem in this piece is with the tactic used to discredit someone.  I believe the Khanverse forum had an accusation against you for being a drug user, as if using that honest or fictitious piece of info relating to your persona invalidates your research?  Can you see how you have just done the same thing?  I hope you will be more intellectually honest in the future when you choose to contradict or oppose a certain perspective or piece of information someone else presents.

Peace.

[LatinAmericanview]

1.  I don't agree that DBS thinks China and Russia are independent of the system.  Where do you get this from?  Maybe I am wrong... please share.

I am not clear what Mr. Smiths view is on Russia or China?  One thing is clear that these nations are in the post communist revolutionary period.  In short we could say that Jewish oligarchs were drummed out by Putin and the KGB but left Rothschilds holding the Yukos bag. China after the massive pogroms against thinking things was left with a highly submissive populace.They became Orwell's Big Brother one state Solution. Just recently allowed the Rothschilds to have banking interests. One thing on note: China new architectural development remains me of "Brave New World" and "WE".  In particular the the "WATER CUBE"

2.  Using that page (newsforthewest) as an attempt at character assassination is not an honest way about invalidating the information one provides.  Quite deceptive on your part.  Why would you not link to his site itself?  It disappointed me to see this tactic used on an otherwise great article.

I have no comment. I do not understand the reference.

3.  The 'Jews' are not alone responsible for the bad things, but they do play a large part, which I think you agree on, since you say: "The view that the New World Order is entirely controlled by Jewish forces is erroneous", and from reading http://www.outlawjournalism.com/?p=16.  You do not negate the current impact those so-called 'Jews' have in the current situation we find ourselves in.  And yes, there are definitely other players in the game, even at this stage, but a semantic issue is always who is pulling the strings... those we can identify and see are at the level administrating things, i.e. a major portion of the financial system as you mentioned in anti-Zionist essay you wrote, or some hidden hands as some people propose.  Proving hidden hands we cannot identify to be at the current steering wheel is like trying to prove the existence of something that cannot be proven, i.e. 'God'.  It doesn't mean things are not the assumed unprovable way, but I prefer to go with evidence that suppositions and the like.  If you have some to contradict the evidence that so-called self professed 'Jews' are in a majority position of influence in the current system, please share, as I am ignorant of it, sorry

This the most interesting part of your analysis. Most of us have come to the Jewish cul de sac.  A dead End! We can see Jewish or Jewish inspired Masonry  but get not go beyond this point. The ultimate string pullers always seem hidden just out of plain view. It is like we can see the effects of the disease but can never see the causal agent. Jews are an administrative class of subverter's. They bring with them their promises of wealth and economic growth and leave in a hurry chased by the mob as our cities burn. I have suggested that what we need to do is attack the NICHES WERE THESE DISEASE AGENTS FESTER. If you want nice white toe nails then you clean the nail bed! Attach the niches where these people project there power.  This has very serious consequences for society but so does genetic enslavement.  I should also mention that Masonry is an outcrop of oppressive social conditions that limit intellectual growth. Many Muslims Leaders are Masonic! I wonder what is oppressing these people?

When taking point #1 #2 into consideration on your rebuttal of 'Jewish' so-called control, your argument becomes rather weak, wouldn't you say?  Maybe an addendum to add a less intellectually dishonest tactic in needed if you are to convince others.  I think just putting the link to the anti-Z essay would be best.  For the record, I agree with you.  But, personal character discrediting is not required though, is it?

And it is a relatively new part (the 'Jews' in major positions of control) from the accepted chronology of history and the accepted accounts of history.  Do you believe everything you are told about history?  Including the so-called 'hidden' history?  How do you know what is real about historic accounts?  I recommend looking into something called 'New Chonology' by Fomenko.  If you are not dogmatic and are in search of an accurate and logical representation of 'truth', it can open up avenues of investigation to understand how great of a deception we are in, in regards to the complexity and capacity of fabrications and falsification of history.  He uses mathematical and statistical analysis to bring doubt and suspicion about some accepted accounts and overall chronology of our current human history.

This is just good research and a basis for better understanding the problem. Very hard reading. Sobering!


On them elitist desire of a minority to control the majority, another direction of research I have briefly looked at, but not properly, is called Ponerology.

Thank you for the article once more.  Everyone should read it.  My problem in this piece is with the tactic used to discredit someone.  I believe the Khanverse forum had an accusation against you for being a drug user, as if using that honest or fictitious piece of info relating to your persona invalidates your research?  Can you see how you have just done the same thing?  I hope you will be more intellectually honest in the future when you choose to contradict or oppose a certain perspective or piece of information someone else presents.

This was cruel and not needed.I am disappointed. John and prothink have multiple pages and threads related to bashing Andre.  I don't think I have to tell you what I think of those individuals.
Peace.
[/quote][/quote]

[Anonymous]

This was cruel and not needed.I am disappointed.

 Boohoo, cry me a river, it wasn't even intended as an attack on Andre.  It was an analogy to show how similar tactics are used in attempts to invalidate or discredit someones work.  You did not understand the purpose of me bringing that up in relation to the tactic of casting DBS in a negative light so as to discredit the information?  Odd...  it is plain to see!  Focusing on the individual characteristics rather than targeting the false information is on par with ad hominem attacks and character assassinations.  Why is it so hard to see?  Open your eyes!  DBS is nuts, so his information is false... great argument!!!!  That is what linking to that newfromthewest piece said, it did not say DBS`s info is wrong because of this and this, it was a direct invocation of discrediting the info via the discrediting of the disseminator of the information, rather than the information.  Is it more clear now?

Sorry for my abruptness, I am a bit shocked to read your response and the way you took what I said... does the reference in #2 make more sense now?  Maybe I was not precise enough as to what my intentions were...

Peace.

[Anonymous]

Additionally, I posted a second comment this morning, in response to his response, follow the link on the first page of this thread if you are interested in reading it.  

I think he took it the wrong way too and did not understand my point about him linking to the newfromthewest article and the effect and perceived intention it portrays in respect to his article about propaganda or dissinfo.  It says the info DBS gives is wrong because he is a nutter, instead of saying the info is wrong because such and such (which is why I stated linking to the anti-Z essay he wrote was all that was needed).  The latter is a more effective argumentative technique, especially since using the former is deceptive in itself and will not work for those who are able to perceive the purpose of putting such a link in an argument about why a certain avenue of research is incorrect.  And I am surprised you Latin, do not see it.  Put aside your opinion of DBS and just look at it in an argumentative position of what is an appropriate or proper method of rebutting information or conclusions someone else has.  It is not to go after the persona and target their possible emotional or mental deficiency!

[LatinAmericanview]

This was cruel and not needed.I am disappointed.

 Boohoo, cry me a river, it wasn't even intended as an attack on Andre.  It was an analogy to show how similar tactics are used in attempts to invalidate or discredit someones work.  You did not understand the purpose of me bringing that up in relation to the tactic of casting DBS in a negative light so as to discredit the information?  Odd...  it is plain to see!  Focusing on the individual characteristics rather than targeting the false information is on par with ad hominem attacks and character assassinations.  Why is it so hard to see?  Open your eyes!  DBS is nuts, so his information is false... great argument!!!!  That is what linking to that newfromthewest piece said, it did not say DBS`s info is wrong because of this and this, it was a direct invocation of discrediting the info via the discrediting of the disseminator of the information, rather than the information.  Is it more clear now?

Sorry for my abruptness, I am a bit shocked to read your response and the way you took what I said... does the reference in #2 make more sense now?  Maybe I was not precise enough as to what my intentions were...

Peace.

 Two subjects seem to polarize people to the Nth degree! GOD and DBS! I could not careless about DBS's past indiscretions.  However, Mr. Smith information is questionable. Please take a deeper look at Arthur Koestler's work. In short his ground breaking research is based on one piece of evidence. Moreover, Koestler was a well known propagandist. Please feel to read what Bristish Freemason Fabian Socialist G. Orwell has to say about him. In short the 13th tribe argues that Khazar Jews have no claim to Israel because they are not from the chosen bloodline. What if you don't believe in the bible? At any rate Koestler's and Smith's target audience seem to be pious believers.

Here is Orwell's essay

Arthur Koestler
George Orwell

Arthur Koestler, 1944 [L.m./F.s.: 2004-12-11 / 33.26 KiB]
    'One striking fact about English literature during the present century is the extent to which it has been dominated by foreigners — for example, Conrad, Henry James, Shaw, Joyce, Yeats, Pound and Eliot. Still, if you chose to make this a matter of national prestige and examine our achievement in the various branches of literature, you would find that England made a fairly good showing until you came to what may be roughly described as political writing, or pamphleteering. I mean by this the special class of literature that has arisen out of the European political struggle since the rise of Fascism. Under this heading novels, autobiographies, books of 'reportage', sociological treatises and plain pamphlets can all be lumped together, all of them having a common origin and to a great extent the same emotional atmosphere.'

About Arthur Koestler [L.m./F.s.: 2004-12-11 / 18.38 KiB]
    © Quotes from Arthur Koestler

.

http://orwell.ru/library/reviews/koestler/english/e_ak



This is directly from THE DBS SITE

According to a Jewish historian, Arthur Koestler, the Jews who are referred to as Ashkenazi Jews are not descendents of the original Jews of Palestine, who are referred to as Sephardic Jews.

Koestler wrote a book called "The Thirteenth Tribe". You can read it for free on the Internet: http://www.iamthewitness.com/Koestler13thTribe.htm

Koestler explains that more than a thousand years ago the Khazars, a group of people living in the area near the Caspian and Black Sea, picked up the Jewish religion.

[LatinAmericanview]

Additionally, I posted a second comment this morning, in response to his response, follow the link on the first page of this thread if you are interested in reading it.  

I think he took it the wrong way too and did not understand my point about him linking to the newfromthewest article and the effect and perceived intention it portrays in respect to his article about propaganda or dissinfo.  It says the info DBS gives is wrong because he is a nutter, instead of saying the info is wrong because such and such (which is why I stated linking to the anti-Z essay he wrote was all that was needed).  The latter is a more effective argumentative technique, especially since using the former is deceptive in itself and will not work for those who are able to perceive the purpose of putting such a link in an argument about why a certain avenue of research is incorrect.  And I am surprised you Latin, do not see it.  Put aside your opinion of DBS and just look at it in an argumentative position of what is an appropriate or proper method of rebutting information or conclusions someone else has.  It is not to go after the persona and target their possible emotional or mental deficiency!

Please post the link to the anti Z essay.

[LatinAmericanview]

Unfortunately, I can not find the link where Andre was attacked for being a "drug user."  I think that since we have brought it up then we should provide the proof. Please don't bring up anything related to Mr. Smith.  Just the facts.

[LatinAmericanview]

One striking fact about English literature during the present century is the extent to which it has been dominated by foreigners — for example, Conrad, Henry James, Shaw, Joyce, Yeats, Pound and Eliot. Still, if you chose to make this a matter of national prestige and examine our achievement in the various branches of literature, you would find that England made a fairly good showing until you came to what may be roughly described as political writing, or pamphleteering. I mean by this the special class of literature that has arisen out of the European political struggle since the rise of Fascism. Under this heading novels, autobiographies, books of 'reportage', sociological treatises and plain pamphlets can all be lumped together, all of them having a common origin and to a great extent the same emotional atmosphere.

I have never seen those arguments! I generally do not try to post other people position unless I can defend everything that they have ever written. Everybody has blind spots. Like or not DBS has become a symbol of the anti-zionist movement.  Symbols and Leaders are a genetic weakness of man kind. I think that DBS has some dubious research posted on his site. It is up to us to show were mistakes may have occurred?

[Anonymous]

Please don't bring up anything related to Mr. Smith. Just the facts.

Indeed, that was my point about newfromthewest link in relation to attempting to disprove the information DBS and his site provide.  Why bring in the personality and that he is a nutter?  Why not target the info you deem to be unreliable?  When you target the person instead of the info in attempts to disprove the info, well that is deceptive and that is what I was taking issue with, and that is why I made the analogy to the bogus (in my view, but hell if I know what the truth is about his personal life) claim of him being a drug user.  I don't care if he does or not, it doesn't take away from Andre providing good info!) it was comparative tool used to attempt to show Andre that his tactic was similar (to whoever did it at Khanverse forum) and not honest in the context of what his article was trying to demonstrate.  If the info is wrong, it is not wrong because DBS is nuts or whatever else his faults are, but because the INFO IS WRONG!  And then when you Latin  do not understand my attempt to show Andre his fault and say something like: "This was cruel and not needed.I am disappointed", well that is very odd that you did not pick on this "tactic" (as I perceived it to be) Andre used, and I am somehow a "big meany" for proposing an analogy that you assume I consider true.

Here is the anti-Z essay as I termed it, he links to it at the end of his 'Jews' analysis:  http://www.outlawjournalism.com/?p=16

Peace.

[LatinAmericanview]

Please don't bring up anything related to Mr. Smith. Just the facts.

Indeed, that was my point about newfromthewest link in relation to attempting to disprove the information DBS and his site provide.  Why bring in the personality and that he is a nutter?  Why not target the info you deem to be unreliable?  When you target the person instead of the info in attempts to disprove the info, well that is deceptive and that is what I was taking issue with, and that is why I made the analogy to the bogus (in my view, but hell if I know what the truth is about his personal life) claim of him being a drug user.  I don't care if he does or not, it doesn't take away from Andre providing good info!) it was comparative tool used to attempt to show Andre that his tactic was similar (to whoever did it at Khanverse forum) and not honest in the context of what his article was trying to demonstrate.  If the info is wrong, it is not wrong because DBS is nuts or whatever else his faults are, but because the INFO IS WRONG!  And then when you Latin  do not understand my attempt to show Andre his fault and say something like: "This was cruel and not needed.I am disappointed", well that is very odd that you did not pick on this "tactic" (as I perceived it to be) Andre used, and I am somehow a "big meany" for proposing an analogy that you assume I consider true.

Here is the anti-Z essay as I termed it, he links to it at the end of his 'Jews' analysis:  http://www.outlawjournalism.com/?p=16



Peace.

Please keep beating a dead horse. Let us talk about Andre's drug use! Actually, I am interested in my Koestler's analysis! I provided links and a contrasting opinion. Yet you remain silent! Well not entirely- you did mention Andre's drug use which was brought up after Andre called Prothink an Agent.



However, I am interested in your opinion of DBS's research. I think his research is shotty! At th very least he should have a disclaimer attached to koestler. To my knowledge he has never suggested that Jewish Koestler was MI6! The Orwell info be attached and DBS should also explain that the target audience is Bible literalist.