John Savage and Latin American View: Illusions in History

[LatinAmericanview]

In 2007 Prof. Tipler's book The Physics of Christianity was published, which analyzes the Omega Point Theory's pertinence to Christian theology.[12] In the book Tipler identifies the Omega Point as being the Judeo-Christian God, particularly as described by Christian theological tradition, e.g., that the Omega Point cosmology when formulated in multiversal terms (of which multiverse conception isn't necessary for the physics upon which the Omega Point itself is based) is fundamentally triune in its structure: the Final Singularity (i.e., the Omega Point), the All-Presents Singularity (which Tipler states exists at all times at the edge of the multiverse), and the Initial Singularity (i.e., the beginning of the Big Bang), which Tipler identifies with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, respectively (successively, the First, Second and Third Persons of the Trinity). In this book Tipler also analyzes how Jesus Christ could have performed the miracles attributed to him in the New Testament without violating any known laws of physics, even if one were to assume that we currently don't exist on a level of implementation in a computer simulation (in the case that we did, then according to Tipler such miracles would be trivially easy to perform for the society which was running the simulation, even though it would seem amazing from our perspective).

:shock:  :lol:  :?  :shock:  :lol:

[mgt23]

Kurt Godel's Attack on the axioms of mathematics
On Formally Undecidable Propositions in Principia Mathematica and Related Systems I

brief overview
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del ... s_theorems

this i imagine would have vast implications for formenkos analysis if it can be shown that maths has no certainty

Rudy Ruckers
Infinity and the Mind

Useful for understanding Omega and prepping one for

F J Tiplers
Physics of Immortality
Physics of Christianity

now i am no expert on mathematics so u may need to help me if you are. I am however a dozy at attacking certainty and various systems of epistemology and ethics.

I respect you and savage immensely and can tell you are both critical thinkers of high caliber. It is my humble hope i could offer you some different perspectives.

[LatinAmericanview]

Kurt Godel's Attack on the axioms of mathematics
On Formally Undecidable Propositions in Principia Mathematica and Related Systems I

brief overview
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del ... s_theorems

this i imagine would have vast implications for formenkos analysis if it can be shown that maths has no certainty

Rudy Ruckers
Infinity and the Mind

Useful for understanding Omega and prepping one for

F J Tiplers
Physics of Immortality
Physics of Christianity

now i am no expert on mathematics so u may need to help me if you are. I am however a dozy at attacking certainty and various systems of epistemology and ethics.

I respect you and savage immensely and can tell you are both critical thinkers of high caliber. It is my humble hope i could offer you some different perspectives.

Look buddy, These are very deep waters.  Different perspectives are important but rather time consuming once you have reached a certain level of understanding. Let us just say we have yet to formally state our argument. Savage and I partially agree with Fomenko. However we have not gone to this point in our shows.

[mgt23]

Some have pointed out that the current acceleration of the universe's expansion due to the positive cosmological constant would appear to obviate the Omega Point.[31] On this matter Prof. Tipler states[32] (see also references [7] and [6]) that baryon annihilation—which he says would be the ideal form of energy resource and rocket propulsion during the colonization of the universe—will force the Higgs field to its absolute vacuum state, resulting in the universe's collapse:

    The SM provides such a mechanism, which I actually discussed in the last section of the Appendix for Scientists in ([10], p. 515). This mechanism is the creation/destruction of baryon number by electroweak quantum tunneling. (Baryons are the heavy particles made up of quarks. Examples are neutrons and protons.) In my book, I pointed out that this mechanism would be ideal for propelling interstellar spacecraft, but I did not discuss its implications for the Higgs vacuum, a serious oversight on my part. (An oversight which invalidates the second part of my Fifth Prediction on page 149 of [10].) If the SM is true—ALL experiments conducted to date indicate that it is (e.g. [33] and [34], last full paragraph on p. 35)—then the net baryon number observed in the universe must have been created in the early universe by this mechanism of electroweak quantum tunneling. If the baryons were so created, then this process necessarily forces the Higgs field to be in a vacuum state that is not its absolute vacuum. But if the baryons in the universe were to be annihilated by this process, say by the action of intelligent life, then this would force the Higgs field toward its absolute vacuum, canceling the positive cosmological constant, stopping the acceleration, and allowing the universe to collapse into the Omega Point. Conversely, if enough baryons are not annihilated by this process, the positive cosmological constant will never be canceled, the universe will expand forever, unitarity will be violated, and the Omega Point will never come into existence. Only if life makes use of this process to annihilate baryons will the Omega Point come into existence.

[LatinAmericanview]

I will debate you any day of the week. PM me. You are a fool.

I retract this statement and offer an apology to MGT23.

[LatinAmericanview]

Some have pointed out that the current acceleration of the universe's expansion due to the positive cosmological constant would appear to obviate the Omega Point.[31] On this matter Prof. Tipler states[32] (see also references [7] and [6]) that baryon annihilation—which he says would be the ideal form of energy resource and rocket propulsion during the colonization of the universe—will force the Higgs field to its absolute vacuum state, resulting in the universe's collapse:

    The SM provides such a mechanism, which I actually discussed in the last section of the Appendix for Scientists in ([10], p. 515). This mechanism is the creation/destruction of baryon number by electroweak quantum tunneling. (Baryons are the heavy particles made up of quarks. Examples are neutrons and protons.) In my book, I pointed out that this mechanism would be ideal for propelling interstellar spacecraft, but I did not discuss its implications for the Higgs vacuum, a serious oversight on my part. (An oversight which invalidates the second part of my Fifth Prediction on page 149 of [10].) If the SM is true—ALL experiments conducted to date indicate that it is (e.g. [33] and [34], last full paragraph on p. 35)—then the net baryon number observed in the universe must have been created in the early universe by this mechanism of electroweak quantum tunneling. If the baryons were so created, then this process necessarily forces the Higgs field to be in a vacuum state that is not its absolute vacuum. But if the baryons in the universe were to be annihilated by this process, say by the action of intelligent life, then this would force the Higgs field toward its absolute vacuum, canceling the positive cosmological constant, stopping the acceleration, and allowing the universe to collapse into the Omega Point. Conversely, if enough baryons are not annihilated by this process, the positive cosmological constant will never be canceled, the universe will expand forever, unitarity will be violated, and the Omega Point will never come into existence. Only if life makes use of this process to annihilate baryons will the Omega Point come into existence.

My position is that real history (events in the Past) is not knowable. However, the historical model of the past is knowable but must be analyzed via he scientific method. The real problem is that I suspect that the information of the past and the historical model that we have access to is false. Additionally, there are several versions of history competing with each other. This competing histories are sometimes contradictory and   create limited windows of understanding. In my limited understanding of history- I know what is false but have little in formation about the truth... In regard to the many philosophical issues you brought up they are important but fail to address my Cartesian conundrum "the Evil Genius."

[mgt23]

In regard to the many philosophical issues you brought up they are important but fail to address my Cartesian conundrum "the Evil Genius."

your missing my point
ALP states
"I do not know, whether or not anything is nonsense or not."
this was the implication of the failure of poppers falsificationism's inability to escape induction problems. For how could one verify that a falsification test was true without using verification methods to make sure the falsification claim wasn't a misreading of the data as all scientific claims had to go through peer review and therefore reliant on phenomenal data(for this reason i claimed that solipsistic idealism was inescapable). We're talking years ago now but i think the example i used was an attack on the data of Issac Newton's moon test, where people thought his data was wrong but it turned out to be true years later. Since Logical Positivism had already been shot down in the vienna circle- ALP was the only conclusion.
 So with this context your point of the evil genius is irrelevant, as the evil genius has to make sure he is not controlled by an evil/good genius and so on ad infinitum. The truth of ALP and the resulting inescapable solipsistic idealism is we can make no propositional claims whatsoever and is the one conclusion that wittgenstein refuses to accept in Tractatus Logico Philosophicus. The Tractatus if it was to be "true" should have stayed a blank page.
for the layman analogy ALP states "at this moment i know not of any propersition that i can utter, including this one"

In conclusion ALP was an extremely simple idea with devastating results and i remember now the a j ayer pupil that taught me he was called mike smithurst a gentlemen of the highest calibre and the best lecturer i have ever witnessed. He was in complete agreement with me, but never really addressed this fundamental issue which would destroy Wittgenstein's second philosophy of language. Maybe now you can see why Ray Monk hated me. I was in a way taking the tractatus forward to its logical end more than wittgenstein did and counterclaimed that if the tractatus was blank(rather than trying to defend it) it would have more truth than his second system.  
This sounds crazy but i stuck to this position and came up with the evolutionary best guess argument which would eventually lead to a harmonist position of a consciousness of an omega perspective. When I read tipler who i had in many ways already anticipated i was horrified to learn of baryon tunneling and the certainty that if omega consciousness was created then the destruction of the multi-universe was assured. As all forms of consciousness would be simulated including the one that built a LHC and used baryon tunneling to destroy all matter-creating a total and absolute nothingness. According to omega theory if it is possible then it would be done.

ignore anything you read on cern about micro-black holes/vacuum bubbles etc that's bullshit. they are building up the black hole fears so they can shoot it down and the LHC would appear safe and it would distract them from the real danger of the future applied technology of baryon tunneling. Baryon tunneling/Baryon Annihilation is the real danger and it is this that the LHC was built for and is what is being suppressed as i have not seen a single scientist refute tiplers work on this. (ignore everything on tiplers christianity etc thats a crock of shit fed to him from his zionist influences)

so as to what is the truth that you desire go with you instincts and act on that. offer it as food for the mind only and make no claims to certainty, but do qualify what you say.

[mgt23]

think of the architect in the matrix film, he doesn't know himself whether he is in a matrix via a higher architect and so on. the answer to the red pill/blue pill problem is to swallow both.

[LatinAmericanview]

think of the architect in the matrix film, he doesn't know himself whether he is in a matrix via a higher architect and so on. the answer to the red pill/blue pill problem is to swallow both.

I am not sure what happened but it appears that you deleted the post that started this debate. It was the post where you talked about Tipler's Omega point. I am no expert in physics or logic positivism.  However, if one's idea's can not be easily stated then usually there is a problem. Let me be clear. History is bunk. The historical model that people refer to as history is a fabrication to entertain the masses.  There are several ways to demonstrate this point.   Logical positivism as an argument to question the validity of history is strong. However, I argue that we do not have to go that far since there are invalid arguments in the current historical model rendering huge portions of our historical understanding useless. And if we see individuals arguing from that position then we can dismiss that position outright. I understand your arguments and I agree to a certain degree. However, at a certain point one must ask what cash value do certain ideas have? My old professor you to say "what is the pragmatic value of certain ideas?

[mgt23]

i haven't deleted any posts latin!? your last point i agree with and your prof words sound in line with my best guess argument as i advocate science and instinct due to their pragmatic nature in discourse.

[mgt23]

http://lib.ru/FOMENKOAT/engltr.txt

this is a english translation of the new chronology of fomenko. from this i will be basing critique.

[LatinAmericanview]

http://lib.ru/FOMENKOAT/engltr.txt

this is a english translation of the new chronology of fomenko. from this i will be basing critique.

http://books.google.com/books?id=YcjFAV ... gy#PPR1,M1

[mgt23]

cool. thx latin. fomenko seems to have done some other work as well. if and when you come across other links can you post them so other readers can check the out.

[mgt23]

If its ok with you LAV/Savage I added your scalinger/formenko shows to my peercast broadcast.

[LatinAmericanview]

If its ok with you LAV/Savage I added your scalinger/formenko shows to my peercast broadcast.

Mgt23- Thank you for the citation. However, Johnny and I were never able to conclude the series. Basically, Johnny and myself suggest that Fomenko provides some very difficult questions to answer using the consensual chronology created by Scaliger. Furthermore, Fomenko creates so many holes in the consensual chronology that we suspend judgment on many of our formerly deep seated historical convictions.  For example, what is the age of the bible? We think it is roughly 500 years old. The age of the pyramids? Roughly 800 years old.

[mgt23]

Furthermore, Fomenko creates so many holes in the consensual chronology that we suspend judgment on many of our formerly deep seated historical convictions.

For example, what is the age of the bible? We think it is roughly 500 years old. The age of the pyramids? Roughly 800 years old.

.......spoken like a true Agnostic logical Positivist.

it is precisely because of you're work that I remain open minded on Formenko. The diabolic nature of Zionism as rewritten by Abraham the jew fits your 500 year guess. The implications if true are vast and would explain why during history there has been many attempts to exterminate counter-historical documents; ranging from the library of Alexandria and the manchu's in china to the privatization of antiquities in the 18th century onwards.
 Impo Zionism via the Kaballah/Tengrism can be traced back to Mongolia. The object has always been world domination via deception. To do that the elites needed to control information and that stands true now as it did then way back in the ancient past......