Genetic study of Ashkenazi ancestry proves they're not Khaza

[LatinAmericanview]

Jewish is a religion. How do you get around the Chinese Jews, african Jews, Syrian Jews etc., there is NO jewish gene per se.

Most Jews today can't even tell you who their 3rd or 4th great grand parents are, let alone going back to prove they're from the blood lineage of Abraham. Good luck proving that one!  :lol: (since the records were destroyed)

I think you guys want to beleive there is a "jew'' gene but I'm not sure of your motives...

Dear Rock,
The Jew Gene is merely an attempt by some to stick to the biblical tradition. Lets break this down for you. If the Jews are Gods chosen People then God only has a covenant with the children of Abraham. Only God's chosen people have the right to steal the Palestinian land. But if the people in Israel are not real Jews then they are not God's Chosen People and therefore, do not have the right of pillage and plunder. European Jews are not Semitic and therefore could not be of the blood of Abraham. DNA tests can bear this out. (Chewbaca Defense) If they are not Semitic Jews then they are the Synagogue of Satan! However, if we can prove that the biblical records have been distorted for political purpose then we can throw out your "the records were destroyed argument" and the Chosen People Bullshit. According to some Revelations was written in October 1, 1486. They got the date from the astronomical references in the biblical text.  Here is a source:
http://books.google.com/books?id=YcjFAV ... ko#PPA7,M1

How do you get around the Chinese Jews, african Jews, Syrian Jews etc., there is NO jewish gene per se.

These are remnant groups of isolated administrators. Basically about 800 years ago there was a One God Kingdom. That Empire was Jewish before the concept of Jews developed. The Empire needed people that could do the functions of Government. These guys were called Judiasis (Judges). Eventually the Empire fell apart and the admins stuck to their traditions and some times to their positions of power.  These became Jewish traditions and this solves the lost tribe bullshit and why the Jews are always in positions of power.

[LatinAmericanview]

We have been saying this from the beginning: Close caste of Administrators and ruling elites.

here is another DNA sampling

http://64.233.189.132/translate_c?hl=en ... TG2xn9A#43

Abstract
We consider the actual DNA-Genetic data describing the Jews (Klesiv, 2007) on the paternal line. Made the following findings and conclusion.
The methodical conclusion: the available evidence describing Jews enable the general and private DNA genetic reconstruction, and it can be done without the support of well-known versions of their stories.
Genohronologichesky conclusion: the Jews, as a social community to segregate in the 17 century AD.
Genogenealogichesky concluded: closest relatives of Jews from haplotypes Cohen are Turks, Armenians, Kurds (probably the Greeks), the direct relatives of their genetic make up in Turkey, 1.5% of the male population.
Genogeograficheskoe conclusion: social group of Jews were formed, mostly in regions where they lived at the beginning of (the) 19 century.

If I recall the Joe Blow analysis of Yiddish, He found traces of Turkish

Although Sullivan will reply that It's speculation about my theory on the origins of the Jews, I am willing to except that.

!!!!The following is mostly my opinion and is not to believed by anyone except me!!!!

The Ghettos as Latin pointed out are an important key.

As far as I can tell the Jews are not a race, but a caste consisting of many races. Race and Identity seem to be the spawn of 20th and 19th century writings.

I am reminded that term DBS uses often is Xenophobia - or fear of foreigners, which would imply that they were from a foreign country at some point in time.

I believe that they came from Constantinople and were not only tax collectors et al.  but had weaponized religion to stamp out
paganism and promote  the new monotheism throughout the first great empire.

[Rockclimber]

Jewish is a religion. How do you get around the Chinese Jews, african Jews, Syrian Jews etc., there is NO jewish gene per se.

Most Jews today can't even tell you who their 3rd or 4th great grand parents are, let alone going back to prove they're from the blood lineage of Abraham. Good luck proving that one!  :lol: (since the records were destroyed)

I think you guys want to beleive there is a "jew'' gene but I'm not sure of your motives...

Dear Rock,
The Jew Gene is merely an attempt by some to stick to the biblical tradition. Lets break this down for you. If the Jews are Gods chosen People then God only has a covenant with the children of Abraham. Only God's chosen people have the right to steal the Palestinian land. But if the people in Israel are not real Jews then they are not God's Chosen People and therefore, do not have the right of pillage and plunder. European Jews are not Semitic and therefore could not be of the blood of Abraham. DNA tests can bear this out. (Chewbaca Defense) If they are not Semitic Jews then they are the Synagogue of Satan! However, if we can prove that the biblical records have been distorted for political purpose then we can throw out your "the records were destroyed argument" and the Chosen People Bullshit. According to some Revelations was written in October 1, 1486. They got the date from the astronomical references in the biblical text.  Here is a source:
http://books.google.com/books?id=YcjFAV ... ko#PPA7,M1

How do you get around the Chinese Jews, african Jews, Syrian Jews etc., there is NO jewish gene per se.

These are remnant groups of isolated administrators. Basically about 800 years ago there was a One God Kingdom. That Empire was Jewish before the concept of Jews developed. The Empire needed people that could do the functions of Government. These guys were called Judiasis (Judges). Eventually the Empire fell apart and the admins stuck to their traditions and some times to their positions of power.  These became Jewish traditions and this solves the lost tribe bullshit and why the Jews are always in positions of power.

Ok, so where do you say we are supposed to start to prove jewish lineage, that their is a jew gene. My argument is that it is not a bloodline it is a religion, at least this day and age. Religious Jews themselves claim they are the children of Abraham so I'm saying that if that is their criteria there is no way to prove it. I just don't believe there is a way to prove there is a jew gene. That's all.

[LatinAmericanview]

Ok, so where do you say we are supposed to start to prove jewish lineage, that their is a jew gene. My argument is that it is not a bloodline it is a religion, at least this day and age. Religious Jews themselves claim they are the children of Abraham so I'm saying that if that is their criteria there is no way to prove it. I just don't believe there is a way to prove there is a jew gene. That's all.

We don't need to prove a Jewish lineage or a Jewish gene. This is only important to people who buy into the biblical tradition. I don't to ascribe to this position. European Jews came to Palestine because of the German Pogroms and British manipulations. The Jewish homeland story is just a religious cover  story to make colonization and land theft more palatable to Christians, Muslims and Jews. The result of this brainwashing is that the British and The US Colony get their outpost in the Heart of the Old Ottoman Empire. Jews provide a launching pad for all types of covert military actions. The Jews eagerly fight for some homeland that they never had any historical attachment to. The military interests hide behind the religious beliefs of the pious. Checkmate!

[Chargeemquick]

So,the upshot is,that the "Jews" are a mixed-race mafia.Duly noted.

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

I agree with others that these types of Genetic Marker tests have probably been skewed for a Jews.  

The problem with the Genetic Analysis is that there are too many incongruencies.  Take for example the Cohen-Levite Priestly "Gene" marker. Jews actually test themselves to find out if they have this marker. The problem starts when Jews from Europe to India all claim to have the "marker" and I can bet you a Jewish Fed piece of Green paper  that these people and their respective communities do not look alike.    
 
If Jews are an admixture of converts from different areas of the Ancient world while at the same time are a Genetic "tribe" of relatively in-bred people with little Genetic Diversity, I can only logically conclude the Genetic tests are getting published in a very poorly researched way in most cases.

This link shows Genetic Test Results for "Jews" from Africa to India. And people want to believe that all of these isolated pockets of  "Genetic Jews"  tie directly back to the Genetics of the early Israelis of 5000 BC.  What "markers" really makes someone Genetically "Jewish"?

The history, linguistics, current geography and published genetics research are all not aligned to answer these questions.  These tests seem to show that Jews were strictly "urban" and cloistered from Goyim for 1000s of years or were stuck in Shetls and removed from admixture with the Goyim in rural areas. The Jews preserved their Genetic Makers over generations nearly isolated from others.  Then we find that Jews from Denmark to Africa to India share a common "Cohen" gene marker.  But  we don't see the markers for the Converts to Judaism. If there is a "Cohen" gene, then there is likely a group of "Convert" markers or at least a "Convert" sequence.  Don't forget that Judaism was a very active proselytizing religion in the Roman Era and afterwards (Khazars).  Where are all of these genetic markers? If they don't exist for 80% of modern Jewry, then why?    You can't join a religion and not have your children join the "race".

"On the Internet, Carvin located Family Tree DNA, a small Houston firm created to answer such questions. He mailed in a sample of his DNA, gathered by swabbing the inside of his cheek, and waited. In late October, he got a call from Bennett Greenspan, president of Family Tree DNA. Not only did his Y chromosome have the cohanim markers-small genetic variations-but other markers matched with those of another man in the database, making it likely that they share a forefather within the past 250 years... Since then, other researchers have used the cohanim markers to ascertain that the Lemba, a Bantu-speaking people in Southern Africa who have traditionally claimed Jewish ancestry, do indeed have Semitic roots. And last June, Hammer published results showing that although Palestinian and Jewish men may be political foes, they are also brethren, so closely related as to be genetically indistinguishable."

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstra ... evite.html

Consistent Long-Range Linkage Disequilibrium Generated by Admixture in a Bantu-Semitic Hybrid Population
Wilson, James F.
Goldstein, David B.
Location: http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articleren ... id=1287894

Both the optimal marker density for genome scans in case-control association studies and the appropriate study design for the testing of candidate genes depend on the genomic pattern of linkage disequilibrium (LD). In this study, we provide the first conclusive demonstration that the diverse demographic histories of human populations have produced dramatic differences in genomewide patterns of LD. Using a panel of 66 markers spanning the X chromosome, we show that, in the Lemba, a Bantu-Semitic hybrid population, markers ??21 cM apart have a significantly greater tendency to show LD than do unlinked markers. In three populations with less evidence of admixture, however, excess LD disappears >2 cM. Moreover, analysis of Bantu and Ashkenazi populations as putative parental populations of the Lemba shows a significant relationship between allele-frequency differentials and the LD observed in the Lemba, which demonstrates that much of the excess LD is due to admixture. Our results suggest that demographic history has such a profound effect on LD that it will not be possible to predict patterns a priori but that it will be necessary to empirically evaluate the patterns in all populations of interest.

http://biblioteca.universia.net/ficha.do?id=4342008

[LatinAmericanview]

CrackSmokeRepublican,Rockclimber,and Chargeemquick why is proving Ashkenazi ancestry important?
I personally think it is only important if you believe the biblical tradition. Again why is the ancestry of Jews important?

The techinque of tyranny is to create a lie and then have people debate the truthfulness of that lie.

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

That's a good question LatinAmerica.

Remember that Jews can keep a lot of "Christians" captive to their media by pushing a "we are God's people" genetic history.  Proving the Khazar link is important for deconstructing the legitimacy of Modern Israel. Also, there are incongruencies here that most of us can see. So it is kind of a puzzle in that respect.
What makes a "jew" -- belief in the Talmud/Torah/Sabbath or a "Jewish Mother"?  For the latter definition, as used by the racist state of Israel first and foremost, tracing the genetic family tree is important.

Links like this support a Khazar ancestory...

Neil Bradman, Dror Rosengarten, and Karl L. Skorecki. "The Origins of Ashkenazic Levites: Many Ashkenazic Levites Probably Have a Paternal Descent from East Europeans or West Asians." Proceedings of the 6th International Conference on Ancient DNA and Associated Biomolecules, July 21-25, 2002. Abstract excerpt:

    "...Levite haplotype distributions were compared with distributions in Israelite Jews and candidate source populations (north Germans and two groups of Slavonic language speakers). The Ashkenazic Levites were most similar to the Sorbians, the most westerly Slavonic speaking group... Comparisons of the Ashkenazic Levite dataset with the other groups studied suggest that Y chromosome haplotypes, present at high frequency in Ashkenazic Levites, are most likely to have an east European or west Asian origin and not to have originated in the Middle East."  

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstra ... evite.html

[LatinAmericanview]

That's a good question LatinAmerica.

Remember that Jews can keep a lot of "Christians" captive to their media by pushing a "we are God's people" genetic history.  Proving the Khazar link is important for deconstructing the legitimacy of Modern Israel. Also, there are incongruencies here that most of us can see. So it is kind of a puzzle in that respect.
What makes a "jew" -- belief in the Talmud/Torah/Sabbath or a "Jewish Mother"?  For the latter definition, as used by the racist state of Israel first and foremost, tracing the genetic family tree is important.

We have been saying that all along. I consider British Israelism and Christian Idenity Movement to be nothing more than a Psyops created by British Intelligence. This is very similar to the any religious movement like the Jehovah Wittiness's.

Ok, so where do you say we are supposed to start to prove jewish lineage, that their is a jew gene. My argument is that it is not a bloodline it is a religion, at least this day and age. Religious Jews themselves claim they are the children of Abraham so I'm saying that if that is their criteria there is no way to prove it. I just don't believe there is a way to prove there is a jew gene. That's all.

We don't need to prove a Jewish lineage or a Jewish gene. This is only important to people who buy into the biblical tradition. I don't to ascribe to this position. European Jews came to Palestine because of the German Pogroms and British manipulations. The Jewish homeland story is just a religious cover  story to make colonization and land theft more palatable to Christians, Muslims and Jews. The result of this brainwashing is that the British and The US Colony get their outpost in the Heart of the Old Ottoman Empire. Jews provide a launching pad for all types of covert military actions. The Jews eagerly fight for some homeland that they never had any historical attachment to. The military interests hide behind the religious beliefs of the pious. Checkmate!

[Rockclimber]

I consider British Israelism and Christian Idenity Movement to be nothing more than a Psyops created by British Intelligence.

I for one am not part of the Christian identity or British Israelism movement.

[LatinAmericanview]

I consider British Israelism and Christian Idenity Movement to be nothing more than a Psyops created by British Intelligence.

I for one am not part of the Christian identity or British Israelism movement.

Rockclimber why is proving Ashkenazi ancestry important?

[LatinAmericanview]

Remember that Jews can keep a lot of "Christians" captive to their media by pushing a "we are God's people" genetic history. Proving the Khazar link is important for deconstructing the legitimacy of Modern Israel.

 You almost have it CrackSmokeRepublican. You want to challenge the legitimacy of the state of Israel by demonstrating that the European Jews are just TALMUDIST worshiping Europeans and not the genetic heirs of Abraham. What if you don't believe in the Abrahamic fairy tale? What if you do not ascribe to the biblical tradition? To me the question is about property rights. A group from Europeans came to Palestine and stole somebodies land. Sometimes the landlord was murdered. The world does nothing because 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust. We can not investigate the Holocaust and we can challenge the Bible.  Are you beginning to see the pattern? Lets put it another way, a man walks into your house and rapes your wife. He quotes chapter and verse from some holy text. The man is arrested and at the trial the defendant uses his holy text to justify his actions. Will the court of law put the holy text on trial by refuting the religious beliefs or simply charge the man with rape? I believe the last time the bible was on trail was the Scopes Monkey Trial.

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

We have been saying that all along. I consider British Israelism and Christian Idenity Movement to be nothing more than a Psyops created by British Intelligence. This is very similar to the any religious movement like the Jehovah Wittiness's.

You need to be a little careful on that point LAP, the Jehovah's Witnesses are a mixture of Egyptology, Masonic Ritual (Russell's family were 33rd Degree Masons- Seventh Day Adventists under Mary Baker Eddy were more Nationalistic but still Zionist), and plain old Millerite Protestant Eschatology from the USA 1840s of which their understanding of Greek, Latin, Hebrew was not of an amateur quality.  All of them pushed for a Temple Rebuilding as part of biblical eschatology. The Jehovah's Witnesses proposed that God's kingdom would arrive in 1914 and they had made prophecies about this since the 1880s.  Problem is that the Jehovah's Witnesses via Charles Taze Russell approached the Rothschilds and proposed the establishment of a Modern Zion.  Interesting too is that President Eisenhower, was raised as a Jehovah's Witness before entering the military.  He believed entirely in the Prophecies surrounding Israel.  He could even recite large passages form the Old Testament from memory.  He was promoted up to the Supreme Commander in WWII by ZIonist Jews.  It all comes full circle.  This psyops existed as its own entity outside of Imperial Designs. It captivated the ambitious in the treaty of Versailles. How to make a modern Jewish state?  This was the final result of WWI.  Sanctifying and populating it before the nations was the objective of WWII.  Both came at a great cost to Europeans.  

http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Esc ... id/1895020

[MikeWB]

That's an interesting point. I've noticed that a lot of christians are trying to prove stuff from the Bible so they seek 'proof' that stuff in Bible actually happened at places like Israel and creationist museums etc. They fail to see that Bible and religion doesn't require proof and is based on fate, not actual reality. Origin of Jews is the same thing and people who want to believe  into this Khazarian stuff do so so that the people they dislike are not in conflict with their version of the bible which might consider them 'god's chosen people'. Khazars are not biblical Jews so it's OK to dislike them.

It's also interesting how Jews managed to subvert the Bible  and introduce pro-Israel and pro-Jewish statements into it and you now have a whole army of Christian Zionists (Evangelical Christians) fighting for Israel. To me this is amazing since the same people supposedly killed their Messiah, Jesus, and now they're servants of these people and consider those people to be 'God's chosen people' and defend them everywhere they go and donate money to them.

Khosteler had a different motive and he wanted to separate these Jews from biblical ones so they're not considered "Jesus killers". So as you can see, Jews are attacking this issue from MANY sides! No matter what your view on the issue, they have a version of their lies nicely packaged for you to believe in so you don't hate them or blame them for killing Jesus.

Unbelievable, isn't it?

Anyway, this is all a giant mindfuck that I just don't get and don't want to even try to comprehend. When you have so many lies and delusions intertwined in one ball of thread, there's simply no truth left in there and you might as well cut the gordian knot and start anew.

[MikeWB]

Just to amend to my previous post, I actually found a perfect analogy to what Jews do to their hosts in nature.  Check out these parasites and what they do to their host:

[youtube:2aifmz7m]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMG-LWyNcAs[/youtube]2aifmz7m]

Evolution is quite amazing. Can you see the parallels to Jews in our society? It's shocking how similar the modus operandi is!  A host is protecting these parasites at all costs and they die protecting them and yet they eat them from the inside.

[LatinAmericanview]

We have been saying that all along. I consider British Israelism and Christian Idenity Movement to be nothing more than a Psyops created by British Intelligence. This is very similar to the any religious movement like the Jehovah Wittiness's.

You need to be a little careful on that point LAP, the Jehovah's Witnesses are a mixture of Egyptology, Masonic Ritual (Russell's family were 33rd Degree Masons- Seventh Day Adventists under Mary Baker Eddy were more Nationalistic but still Zionist), and plain old Millerite Protestant Eschatology from the USA 1840s of which their understanding of Greek, Latin, Hebrew was not of an amateur quality.  All of them pushed for a Temple Rebuilding as part of biblical eschatology. The Jehovah's Witnesses proposed that God's kingdom would arrive in 1914 and they had made prophecies about this since the 1880s.  Problem is that the Jehovah's Witnesses via Charles Taze Russell approached the Rothschilds and proposed the establishment of a Modern Zion.  Interesting too is that President Eisenhower, was raised as a Jehovah's Witness before entering the military.  He believed entirely in the Prophecies surrounding Israel.  He could even recite large passages form the Old Testament from memory.  He was promoted up to the Supreme Commander in WWII by ZIonist Jews.  It all comes full circle.  This psyops existed as its own entity outside of Imperial Designs. It captivated the ambitious in the treaty of Versailles. How to make a modern Jewish state?  This was the final result of WWI.  Sanctifying and populating it before the nations was the objective of WWII.  Both came at a great cost to Europeans.  

http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Esc ... id/1895020

I believe that this was a military and imperial objective and not some sort of prophesy fulfillment. One has to look at the Ottoman Empire and the collapse of the empire to fully grasp the strategic importance of a Palestinian Outpost.  Creating a  biblical story was just a way of creating the emotional and intellectual rationale for Jews and Christians. Consider the Jewish  Zionist and their Christian counterparts willing to die for the state of Israel!? They want their religious beliefs at trial and the core legal issues of property rights and  murder. Good info on Ike.

[LatinAmericanview]

Unbelievable, isn't it?

Anyway, this is all a giant mindfuck that I just don't get and don't want to even try to comprehend. When you have so many lies and delusions intertwined in one ball of thread, there's simply no truth left in there and you might as well cut the gordian knot and start anew.

That is why Savage and I started with a concept of history. History for the most part has been a convenient political fairy tale to create the proper attitudes among the masses and servants of the elites. The truth! We are still looking for that my friend.

[MikeWB]

Unbelievable, isn't it?

Anyway, this is all a giant mindfuck that I just don't get and don't want to even try to comprehend. When you have so many lies and delusions intertwined in one ball of thread, there's simply no truth left in there and you might as well cut the gordian knot and start anew.

That is why Savage and I started with a concept of history. History for the most part has been a convenient political fairy tale to create the proper attitudes among the masses and servants of the elites. The truth! We are still looking for that my friend.

I completely agree. History is written by victors and people who have specific motives and sometimes contains very little truth in it. And lies in history are not only delegated to stuff that happened thousands of years ago... you can't even trust the stuff that happened 50 years ago since CIA and various security agencies are using deception all the time. The only little truth you get is when CIA/NSA etc opens up its archives and you get little pieces of truth. Mossad releases nothing but we know what they do by following their fuckups and few whistleblower leaks.

This is why I trust genetics and science more than anything written by some guy in a cave or people like Khostler.

BTW, watch that little youtube video on parasites... it will blow your mind. It's by far the best analogy of what's happening to us that I've seen.

[Rockclimber]

I think what this has evolved into is a debate where on one side you have the God haters (Mike and LAV) and those of us who believe in a God. Both sides have their own reason for believing as we do and there certainly is a obvious bias. I'm willing to admit that much but I'm sure y'all are as pure as the driven snow.  

[LatinAmericanview]

I think what this has evolved into is a debate where on one side you have the God haters (Mike and LAV) and those of us who believe in a God. Both sides have their own reason for believing as we do and there certainly is a obvious bias. I'm willing to admit that much but I'm sure y'all are as pure as the driven snow.  

We don't hate God! Some of the best humanity has to offer is expressed in the biblical tradition. The problem is that believing in god and the biblical tradition are not mutually inclusive.

[MikeWB]

I think what this has evolved into is a debate where on one side you have the God haters (Mike and LAV) and those of us who believe in a God. Both sides have their own reason for believing as we do and there certainly is a obvious bias. I'm willing to admit that much but I'm sure y'all are as pure as the driven snow.  

I don't hate god. I just don't believe in it since I like to have proof for stuff and God from Bible just doesn't make any sense to me. If the "god" does exist, I don't think this God has any interest in lives of men on Earth. I don't dismiss the concept of an omnipotent being that has created our universe but I completely dismiss the concept of a God that's being peddled by religious institutions. I see religion as a way for people to cope with issues and complexity of life. When something bad happens to us, it's much easier to cope with the effects of it if you put the blame for it on something other than chance. I don't hate religious people (as long as they don't hate me) and I firmly believe that people should be free to believe in anything they want as long as they're not trying to impose their beliefs on others and respect others' beliefs.

That said, I do believe in science more than I believe in stuff peddled by various people who like to distort the truth and have clear motives for doing so. This thread is about a scientific proof that  Khazar stuff is total bullshit propagated by Jews who want to blend in better with their host and want to avoid the wrath of Christians for killing their Messiah. To me, that makes perfect sense and I understand this mode of thinking no matter how devious it is.

[LatinAmericanview]

This thread is about a scientific proof that Khazar stuff is total bullshit propagated by Jews who want to blend in better with their host and want to avoid the wrath of Christians for killing their Messiah. To me, that makes perfect sense and I understand this mode of thinking no matter how devious it is.

Wow holy shit nice insight. I got the parasite reference. Nice

[Anonymous]

Ah genetics, I remember the days of breeding fruit flies for specific traits in Uni.  I do recall a certain monk who came up with the concept of genes and genetics, and a certain LSD inspired freemason coming up with the structure of DNA. I am all for observation and such, but I don't know if I would put all my faith in results in something used as a political tool, unless I was able to reproduce the results myself.

But it is an interesting thread non the less.

Personally I have never seen a DNA strand myself, I only have ever seen those osmosis sheets where the chemicals spread across the paper. and of course shows like CSI have those fancy print outs that compare DNA profiles. What does it all mean? I couldn't really say, not sure how much speculation or interpretation comes into play.

to me we must be able to ask the right questions and not get caught up in all the bullshyte in between.
Who benefits?
what is the unveiled motive?

essentially breaking apart propaganda to get to the meat of closest to the bone.

[sirbadman]

I couldn't care less about the god stuff. Anyone with half a brain knows the bible was written by men and it doesn't really prove anything other than that.

I still think the study performed by Goldstein was rigged for his conclusion that the ashekenazi have "specific Middle Eastern ancestry" due to "an unambiguous signature of their Jewish heritage" as opposed to "to inbreeding".

What constitutes a race is up for interpretation, but clearly there is at least one jew who is highly interested in trying to prove the ashekenazi are semites.  Maybe he likes the "antisemite defence".

[joeblow]

Many genetic and non-genetic lines of evidence make clear that there are differences amongst the Jewish and non-Jewish peoples of Europe. There are both specific genetic diseases (for example, Tay-Sachs) and particular mutations (for example, the breast cancer BRCA1 185delAG mutation) that have considerably higher incidences in Jewish populations, and both Y chromosome and mitochondrial DNA lineages show associations with Jewish heritage

This is a natual occurance after a genetic bottleneck (when a population shrinks to a very small number of indivuals who give rise to a much large group in the future). And it should say Ashkenazi rather than Jewish.

No study, however, has directly addressed the question of whether Jewish individuals form a consistently identifiable group on the basis of genetic data alone, as has been documented for other racial/ethnic groups

That is a bold face lie, I personally have seen many such studies.

Recently, Price et al. showed that self-described Jewish ancestry was a major determinant of population genetic structure in European populations, but they did not address the question of whether genetic data might be able to accurately identify which individuals do and do not have Jewish ancestry.

No, what they said was that their findings were consistent with another study that they based their study on that Ashkenazi were similiar to other southeastern Europeans.

"Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry (similar to the main genetic gradient within Europe [6–8])"

Here we investigate whether it is possible to accurately infer the degree of Jewish ancestry using only an individual's genomic information.

Yes, and they state that their study has "100% sensitivity and 100% specificity" which is laughable and one needs alot of chuzpah to make such a statement.

This leaves open the question, however, of why Americans of Jewish ancestry are a distinct group. There are two extreme possibilities: either the Jewish group reflects ancestry from source populations other than those of non-Jewish Americans; or Jewish populations have undergone bottlenecks that change their genetic makeup.

And how are they extreme when it is a fact that the bulk of Ashkenazi came en masse twice to America and Ashkenazi mitochondrial has been conclusively determined to come from a group of less than 10 females by way of tons of previous studies? More hype.

We also compared the average heterozygosity across the set of linkage disequilibrium-pruned polymorphisms in those with full Jewish ancestry to those without, and found that the subjects with four Jewish grandparents were, on average, slightly more heterozygous than the subjects with no Jewish ancestry.

Very nice, but without comparing Ashkenazi to other Jews (Sephardi, Mizrahi, Falasha, Beta Israel...) to Goyim at the same time, the differences can easily be explained away as simple genetic drift. The outliers are indivuals removed from consideration.

"Over 4 iterations, 19 outliers were removed, leaving 611 subjects. The 19 outliers included two subjects with 4 Jewish grandparents (1 identified by the subject as Sephardic), 1 with 2 Jewish grandparents and 16 of non-Jewish ancestry. In most cases the outliers had one or more grandparents from the Middle East, North Africa, Hawaii or South America."



The graph's legend is deceptive, it should state Ashkenazi rather than Jewish. In a previous show I did, I revealed how the Middle-East, specificially the Leviant (around Jerusalem) was invaded by the Mongols (relatives of the Turks) and that they left their genetic imprint upon the area, hence even the Palestian Arab population will now have genetic similarities with Mongols, Turks, Khazars.

These analyses make clear that individuals with full Jewish ancestry are a genetically distinct group from those having no (self-reported) Jewish ancestry.

The Ashkenazi bottleneck theory has already been proven and has no relationship to the question of whether or not they are Khazars or Semites.

Of the subjects that self-identified as Jewish and knew their type, almost all were Ashkenazim. Of the Jewish subjects that did not know their type but could provide information on grandparent country of origin, the vast majority had Eastern or Central European ancestry, and none had Mediterranean or Middle Eastern ancestry.

None had Middle-Eastern ancestry? Again, what is the point of this thread?

[blueocean]

I think what this has evolved into is a debate where on one side you have the God haters (Mike and LAV) and those of us who believe in a God. Both sides have their own reason for believing as we do and there certainly is a obvious bias. I'm willing to admit that much but I'm sure y'all are as pure as the driven snow.

We don't hate God! Some of the best humanity has to offer is expressed in the biblical tradition. The problem is that believing in god and the biblical tradition are not mutually inclusive.

uhhhh logical fallacy?   first you say "Some of the best humanity has to offer is expressed in the biblical tradition. "


then : "problem is that believing in god and the biblical tradition are not mutually inclusive."      


you probbaly mean, humanity brought forth the bible.........................  



Mike WB wrote : " That said, I do believe in science more than I believe in stuff peddled by various people who like to distort the truth and have clear motives for doing so. This thread is about a scientific proof that Khazar stuff is total bullshit propagated by Jews who want to blend in better with their host and want to avoid the wrath of Christians for killing their Messiah. To me, that makes perfect sense and I understand this mode of thinking no matter how devious it is."


1  a jewsih professor  has (can have) a clear motive to distort the truth, hence this pro-jewish outcome.
2 Khazar stuff is NOT officially propagated, it is a fringe sujbject, hence your reasoning is flawed.
3 avoid the christian wrath?  whahahaha............... :lol:
4 so it makes 'perfect' sense?

[LatinAmericanview]

I think what this has evolved into is a debate where on one side you have the God haters (Mike and LAV) and those of us who believe in a God. Both sides have their own reason for believing as we do and there certainly is a obvious bias. I'm willing to admit that much but I'm sure y'all are as pure as the driven snow.

We don't hate God! Some of the best humanity has to offer is expressed in the biblical tradition. The problem is that believing in god and the biblical tradition are not mutually inclusive.

uhhhh logical fallacy?   first you say "Some of the best humanity has to offer is expressed in the biblical tradition. "


then : "problem is that believing in god and the biblical tradition are not mutually inclusive."      


you probbaly mean, humanity brought forth the bible.........................  



Mike WB wrote : " That said, I do believe in science more than I believe in stuff peddled by various people who like to distort the truth and have clear motives for doing so. This thread is about a scientific proof that Khazar stuff is total bullshit propagated by Jews who want to blend in better with their host and want to avoid the wrath of Christians for killing their Messiah. To me, that makes perfect sense and I understand this mode of thinking no matter how devious it is."


1  a jewsih professor  has (can have) a clear motive to distort the truth, hence this pro-jewish outcome.
2 Khazar stuff is NOT officially propagated, it is a fringe sujbject, hence your reasoning is flawed.
3 avoid the christian wrath?  whahahaha............... :lol:
4 so it makes 'perfect' sense?

Firstly your objection to my claim. The biblical tradition has some wonderful life rules. One does not have to believe in the bible or god to see the value of some of these life lessons. Here is an example, thou shall not kill.

The Khazar angle is believed by over forty million Christian Zionists that believe that Israel is some sort of biblical prophesy come true therefore there is some sort of relationship there. So I believe that is a bit more than fringe.

[Rockclimber]

this reminds me of the global warming debate. ONe side says "it's over" and the other says "oh no it's not".

 :lol:

[LatinAmericanview]

this reminds me of the global warming debate. ONe side says "it's over" and the other says "oh no it's not".

 :lol:

Exactly! It is not important is they came from Mars. What is important is that they are here and what their actions. However, the reason the debate appeals to some is because it is part of the British Israelism false paradigm.

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

If you believe people are animals (Goyim) slaughtering them is nothing.  In fact, if a solar flare ends all life tonight then so be it. More carbon for making oil in a few million years.

If you believe all humans are connected through out history in a common narrative and that organization at this complexity is not chance, you might give a second reading of the Bible.  Particularly if you know history and know something about Biblical Archaeology.

The Zionist Jews are pushing to fulfill a broken promise.  They will not rule and inherit the earth.  If we are just animals Goyim, then you have no grounds to contest Israel except on racial grounds? No? Who gives whom "rights"?   This world could easily end by many means today or tomorrow. If you don't have a belief in God and just in biological determinism -- you will have your brethren living in Nuclear Devastation someday. Higher powers friends is the way.