Re: J-Tribe Perspective: The Lord of the Rings rooted in racism

[Michael K.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

According to Christian theologians like I. Howard Marshall, Gregory Boyd, and Paul Rhodes Eddy as well as skeptics such as John Remsburg and Dan Barker, the historicity of Jesus covers a spectrum of ideas that range from "the gospels are inerrant descriptions of the life of Jesus"[1] to "the gospels provide no historical information about Jesus' life including his very existence"[2] on the other.[3][4][5][6] Boyd and Eddy state that any divisions of this spectrum of views are merely a "useful heuristic" to organize what is ultimately a very complex issue.[51]

Prominent critics like John Remsburg and Richard Dawkins say that while the Gospel accounts are no more historical than any other myth (Dawkins likens them to an ancient Da Vinci Code) the odds are Jesus did exist.[4][52] Others like G. R. S. Mead and Ellegard have argued that the Gospel Jesus is a myth based on an earlier historical person described in either the Talmud or Dead Sea Scrolls. Rolf Torstendahl, professor of history at Uppsala University, has stated that the evidence for existence of Jesus is too weak for a historian to be able to say anything on Jesus' existence, based on evidence.[53] Graham Stanton, Lady Margaret's Professor of Divinity at Cambridge University, writes that the majority of historians accept that Jesus existed and that the gospels contain plenty of valuable evidence which has to be weighed and assessed critically.[54] John P. Meier, professor of theology at University of Notre Dame, has stated that historians over the second half of the 20th century "have produced a rough consensus on the valid sources, methods and criteria in the quest for the historical Jesus"[55] Mark Allan Powell, professor of New Testament at Trinity Lutheran Seminary, has stated that "most historians are reasonably certain we can know about" things Jesus said and did.[56] Joseph Hoffmann, the co-chair of the Jesus Project and a professor of religion at the Wells college holds that the issue of historicity of Jesus has been largely ignored owing to theological interests.[57]
[edit] Jesus as myth

The above reference from Wiki gives a valid overview of the scholarship supporting the historicity of Jesus Christ.  Obviously, the view that Jesus has no historical validity, is a fairy tale, etc., it is not a product of a broad consensus among respected historical scholars.  Rather it is a fringe view belonging to individuals who have an agenda based on their own subjective belief systems.

I accept and own the fact that the Orthodox Christian view of Jesus Christ, although based on an historical person, can not be proven scientifically, nor can all the claims about Jesus' life made in the Gospels be validated historically.

All of this demonstrates that I know the difference between facts and beliefs, and I am owning my beliefs as irrational.  I have yet to see that level of intellectual maturity come from the the jeering section, who apparently are unaware that science to them is not science but religious faith.  This is a typical pagan perspective, materialist irrationality violently demanding to be recognized as "the truth".  

If any of you were real scientists you would be able to acknowledge that the formal limits of science that make it useful as a tool for measuring and predicting reality, likewise render it useless as a repository of meaning and faith.  A scale tells you nothing about the subtler qualities of the thing it so precisely weighs.

I am beginning to suspect that Yo Mama is actually a very smart person who refuses to deviate from a script.   :?:

[Michael K.]

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Christianity-Church-History-2348/actual-proof-Jesus-existed.htm

Although references to Jesus Christ by early secular historians are meager, such references do exist.

Cornelius Tacitus, a respected first-century Roman historian, wrote: "The name [Christian] is derived from Christ, whom the procurator Pontius Pilate had executed in the reign of Tiberius."

Suetonius and Pliny the Younger, other Roman writers of the time, also referred to Christ.

In addition, Flavius Josephus, a first-century Jewish historian, wrote of James, whom he identified as "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ."

"EVIDENCE IN MUSEUM?"

The first-century Jewish historian Josephus referred to the stoning of "James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ." (THE JEWISH ANTIQUITIES, JOSEPHUS, BOOK XX, SEC. 200)

Tacitus, a Roman historian who lived during the latter part of the first century C.E., wrote: "Christus [Latin for "Christ"], from whom the name [Christian] had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus."—THE COMPLETE WORKS OF TACITUS (NEW YORK, 1942), "THE ANNALS," BOOK 15, PAR. 44.

With reference to early non-Christian historical references to Jesus, THE NEW ENCYCLOPÆDIA BRITANNICA states: "These independent accounts prove that in ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus "(1976), MACROPÆDIA, VOL. 10, P. 145.

As it did with the Hebrew Scriptures, archaeology has brought to light many interesting artifacts in support of the inspired record contained in the Christian Greek Scriptures.

For instance –

Pontius Pilate Inscription. It was in 1961 that the first archaeological find was made with reference to Pontius Pilate. ( the person who put Jesus to death) This was a stone slab located at Caesarea, which bore in Latin the name of Pontius Pilate

To mention only one, as there are literally hundreds of artifacts relating to everything Jesus said and did. All the people Jesus mentioned, there is proof they existed, all the places he said he visited, there is proof these places did exist, and so on.

To put is simply, if we are to doubt the historicity of Jesus, we must also doubt the historicity of ones like, Alexander the Great and Napoleon, as there is more evidence of Jesus existence than of theirs.

[Anonymous]

it is not a product of a broad consensus among respected historical scholars

Really? I guess if so many people believe it is correct then it must be right.

What has Christ done for anyone? I say fuck him, it is just a load of stupid nonsense, but if you other idiots want to love him & allow Jesus to wash away your sins, fine but there is no historical fact from a 3rd party that says Jesus existed except from a mention from josephus. Jesus had 12 disciples, only 3 ever wrote anything and nobody knows who the others were. If you are a real human have a look at the book which is freely readable on the internet from the creativity group called Nature's Eternal Religion. It slams dunk the fraud which is Christianity.

http://www.phpbbplanet.com/forum/viewfo ... um=library

spend some time reading through those links, if you still want to believe, fine. I am just pointing out the facts.

[Yo Mama]

There is no contemporary historical, literary, or archaeological evidence for Jesus Christ.  None whatsoever.

The only real "evidence" for the historical existence of 'Jesus Christ' is the four gospels, which are fantasy literature and not history, written many, many decades after the alleged lifetime of 'Jesus Christ'.  There is no other evidence.  The passage in Josephus is a notorious 4th century forgery by the bishop Eusebius.  And the passages from Tacitus, Suetonius, and Pliny are nothing more than regurgitated hearsay from later Christians.  They are NOT first-hand eye witness proof of the existence of 'Jesus Christ'.  They are useless sources for trying to prove the historicity of 'Jesus'.

 8-)

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

You claim to refute everyone, yet all you do is post weblinks rather than word your own arguments.

Are you averse to reading?  Apparently you are.  I will remind you that reading is fundamental.  

Are you averse to coming up with original material?

[Yo Mama]

So your "revelations" from Jebus are original material, are they?  Okay then, why don't share these "revelations" with us.  I'm sure all the readers here on TIU would be interested in hearing them.  

[pas]

Yet more far-fetched conspiracy theories.

Guilty as charged.(i get that accusation a lot   )

Please ... it makes no sense for Jews to create a secondary conspiracy that would pose a major threat to their primary and most effective conspiracy.

It worked out quite good for them in the end, i would say.

And no, this is not a working model of the Hegelian dialectic.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

It is nonsensical.

I try to keep an open mind and considering the alternatives, it makes sense to me.

[pas]

That might be your definition of an atheist, but it's definately not mine.
And what is the goal of this bill-board.It can only lead to division and friction and it's a comlete waste of money, time and energy imo.

I think this is bad advertisement for religious people.So again the jew laughs his ass off watching the goyim fight among each other over silly arguements that can never be won by either side except in their own imagination.

[Michael K.]

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%204:19-26&version=NKJV

John 4:19-26

New King James Version (NKJV)

19 The woman said to Him, "Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship."

21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

25 The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming" (who is called Christ). "When He comes, He will tell us all things."

26 Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am He."

This is a story called "The Samaritan Woman,"  or "The Woman at the Well."  It takes place as Jesus is resting from his travel at the famous Well of Jacob (a REAL well, mind you, that you can see for a few shekels), which was not in Judea, but in the northern Kingdom of Samaria, which was a long time rival of Judah.  Jesus asks for a drink, and as she hassles him he reveals to her that he is clairvoyant and sees her past, that she has had five husbands and that she is currently hooking up unwed.  

He goes further and suggests that he has water for her too, water that will become a fountain within whoever drinks it, giving everlasting life.  She discerns that he IS a prophet and then, in the quote above, she is vexatiously testing him on an issue of racial pride about the proper form of worship, which as a prophet he is being tempted to engage in on behalf of Judah, his tribe.  

However, being beyond such earthly dualistic nonsense he turns the attention to the one both worship, God the Father; the primativistic Samaritans worship him on a mountain as an unknown God, the Jews worship him in Jerusalem where the temple is, and as the Judean people, bearing the ark and royal priesthood of Aaron had many time witnessed God's miracles, they worshiped "what they knew" was contained mystically there and which was "salvation..of the Jews (KJV)",not "from" them (NIV, a bad translation by some people with an agenda), but dwelling with a tangible presence among them because of the undeserved kindness of historical fate.

Still, the main point which is reached is ultimately that the true worshipers of the real God were going to be beyond tribal disputes and ages old hatreds, in fact they would transcend the need even for the temple or the mountain in that their worship would be both in the Holy Spirit and in Himself, Christ "the Truth", together completing the Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

 

[Yo Mama]

Christianity, a Jewish Religion

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Old Jewish Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
- Rabbi Jesus, Matthew 5:17

But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
- Rabbi Jesus, Matthew 10:6

I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
- Rabbi Jesus, Matthew 15:24

I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.
- Rabbi Saul, Romans 11:1

Paul answered, "I am a Jew, from Tarsus in Cilicia, a citizen of no ordinary city. Please let me speak to the people."
- Rabbi Saul, Acts 21:39

Then Paul said: "I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city. Under Gamaliel I was thoroughly trained in the law of our fathers and was just as zealous for G-d as any of you are today.
- Rabbi Saul, Acts 22:3

[Yo Mama]

Christianity, a Totalitarian Jewish Cult

Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.[/i]
- Rabbi Jesus, Matthew 10:37

If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters - yes, even his own life - he cannot be my disciple.[/i]
- Rabbi Jesus, Luke 14:26

In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.
- Rabbi Jesus, Luke 14:33

The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
- Rabbi Jesus, John 12:25

Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
- Rabbi Saul, 1 John 1:7

Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist - he denies the Father and the Son.
- Rabbi Saul, 1 John 2:22

but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
- Rabbi Saul, 1 John 4:3

If anyone does not love the Lord - a curse be on him. Come, O Lord!
- Rabbi Saul, 1 Corinthians 16:22

We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
- Rabbi Saul, 2 Corinthians 10:5