TFC: Monday, 6 December, 2010 - DBS / Rodney Shakespeare

[Helphand]

TFC: Monday, 6 December, 2010 - DBS / Rodney Shakespeare

http://iamthewitness.com/audio/Rodney%2 ... 6-2010.mp3

http://binaryeconomics.net


{A difficult one to summarise, this one, complex in parts, manic pace of discussion meant the subject sometimes got disjointed, with some non-sequiturs. Clarification / elaboration by AS in his expected re-visit would be good.}


00:00-10:00
DBS: interest based financial system and its payload of debt serfdom and recurrent crises of boom/bust. Rodney Shakespeare's first interview on TFC. He is a barrister, author and educator teaching in Indonesia and elsewhere. Wrote the book "Binary Economics". In 2000 gave a speech at NYU with Professor Wolf; attended recent conference in Malaysia with Dr. Mahathir Mohamad on interest/riba.
Bankers have a vested interest in preserving the status quo and are backed by corporate power. Growing threat to individual liberty and access even to the necessities of life.
RS: the system is centralising power in a global financial elite by putting everyone into debt. The lenders make the money out of nothing. A complete disconnect between lenders and mainstream economic reality.
DBS: political leaders are in the power of the bankers so how to resolve?
RS: there is no leadership: it is controlled by tiny groups of mega corporations and the banks who put up money for political candidates' election campaigns. Let the banks make their own lending decisions; let them lend their customers' deposits with the consent of those customers; but do not let them create new money and put it into circulation as now. The essence of the thing is  to stop the banks creating new money and to ensure also that money that is created is lent responsibly e.g. with collateral where prudent. That is done by a national bank issuing the money interest free. Money must always be lent to ensure productive capacity is spread across the population. Current tea party movement for political reform in America is not working because it does not address the fact that the Wall Street system is corrupt; the Federal Reserve must issue interest free loans for big capital projects.


10:00-20:00
No good bailing out the banks; money must be circulated into the hands of the ordinary people e.g. by renewing grade D-quality bridges and degraded roads (as graded by American Society of Engineers). Tent cities, 45mio in USA receiving food stamps; other symptoms of profound economic malaise.
DBS: In France autoroute Lyon-Marseilles was built at public expense but the management and toll collecting was turned over to private concern controlled by Rothschilds. So public do not benefit from the use. Like with trans-American highway in USA. Eisenhower's planning for changeover form US routes to interstate program of roads in 1950s was a boon to the economy but since neglected.
RS: same with e.g. the Humber Bridge in England, a money maker but took ten years to build so money borrowed for financing it became unrepayable in scale. Electricity generation: River Severn barrage project (can be also be instead tidal lagoon, more expensive but might be environmentally superior) would provide 10% of UK electricity demand. Severn estuary he thinks has 14' tidal range high, perhaps highest in the world. In the last month the UK coalition government has cancelled the project because of the austerity programme and would need to borrow at interest to build it which would take ten years and the debt would then have doubled or trebled so the project when working would never replay the financing cost. {Just like the "privately financed" Eurotunnel project where the bondholders were always refinancing because it could never make a profit after financing costs} Same problem globally e.g. tidal barrages in Bangladesh. Indian farmers borrowing on collateral from 50-300% from rural moneylenders. he has not yet succeeded in getting his solution accepted in India because of the entrenched power of the money lenders and the Islamic Development Bank: just have the Central Bank charge an administration cost e.g. 17% feasible on average annually.  
DBS: still a lot!
RS: their costs are 34% for admin and training ...  


20:00-30:00
... and the next 17% "is what is used for the capital to lend to expand the system; there is no interest going outside of Gramin.  Seemingly high rates for micro credit from these sources but as stated much higher interest rates charged by the rural lenders.
DBS: you say much in "Binary Economics" of the myth of wealth creation in the middle and lower classes; interest and inflation restrict the wealth creation advantage to those at the top of the economic heap and suck wealth itself out of the lower economic classes who are also being attacked e.g. by having their pension funds appropriated.
RS: inflation in the USA is going to be serious. Only those with plenty of collateral i.e. the existing affluent can have capital ownership so the stakeholders' base in society must be expanded in order for more wealth to be created by capital instruments--requiring capital to be spread wider so producers and consumers are the same people. Binary economics encourages a bias in favour of spreading ownership which leads to balanced free market economy which leads to efficiency shooting up exponentially. That leads to social and economic justice and provides people with security so they need not be greedy on account of their feelings of insecurity.
DBS: Professor Ed Wolf brings up in your 2000 talk at NYU a factor we have not yet addressed: in a private debt money system such as that run by the US Federal Reserve, built in is a certain amount of inflation every year, it's like an additional tax on the public. The amount of money circulating in a society should be proportionate to the need of enabling distribution of goods and services within that society. But that "tax" skews the reading of the productivity gains that result from increased industrial efficiency on account of increased mechanisation and a reduced labour component; despite which,  Alan Greenspan and others have continued to assess the increase of wealth contained within the system on the basis of or including labour inputs as before; whereas your research shows that with increased industrial efficiency there is less labour input into the productivity gain. This undervalued the inputs at the lower labour level--jobs have disappeared. {A link to a url explaining this using an example would be handy since the level of abstraction in the discussion is rather too high to make the concept readily intelligible}.
RS: Wolf is the US expert on the distribution of capital ownership in American society. In the last 25 years actual real earnings of US workers have been in decline in addition to actual job losses. About 20-22% unemployment using the 1980 calculation method.  


30:00-40:00
Falsity of the understanding of productivity. Long term (US) unemployment is not going to be corrected. In binary economics any task has an increasing proportion done by machine and less by the human; and an appreciation of the fact that the whole of a task need not (nor will be) done by humans. So for people to get a fair share of productive capacity is for them to have ownership of the capital instruments.
DBS: this leads to your Malaysian conference subject. Over the last 8 years we have seen theft of general population's wealth by central banks to shore up a system which is out of control but which benefits those plutocrats only, who view people as having value as economic units--or not at all.
RS: Islamic finance and banking have been completely corrupted so in economic effect they ARE implementing riba. They change the form but not the substance of the transaction. For a house purchase on mortgage, in western terms you take a loan at interest secured on the house so you end up repaying 3-4 times the capital cost even though the capital cost to the lender is a small fraction of that. In Islamic banking the house is sold to the financing bank which then rents it to the customer over the mortgage period and that amounts to more in cost than the loan and interest on it. Customer then has the right to purchase the house at the end of the mortgage for  some nominal amount e.g. USD1. Alternatively profit share or partnership structures are used, resulting in the lender getting a substantial profit; not a philanthropic exercise.  Western system collapsing and the Islamic system has no comprehensive solution either without adjustment. New model is envisaged as being based on private property, market terms and using money for productive capacity, the money not being lent at interest but allowing the lender to take an administrative fee.  
DBS: local community based credit unions one existing solution although still based on the lending at interest model. US Government tending to pressure them to act more like banks and less like locally accountable lenders. Ellen Hodgson Brown's example of Bank of North Dakota--strictly limited to economic development of local people and businesses. Its profits go to the treasury of the State thereby benefiting the local population.


40:00-50:00
RS: once assets owned by outsiders, wealth flows away from the community. If you look at section 13 of the Federal Reserve Act 1913 of the US it is clear s13 was intended to enable interest free loans to the farmers--binary economics. More established farm owners would seek differently based financing, e.g. interest free but involving the payment of an administrative fee. Also--North Dakota also as a US State is not bankrupt!
DBS: furthermore it has only 4% unemployment; Lakota Indians benefited. As wealth is created at the bottom it is appropriated by the capital formers in the top 1% who do not want to share.
RS: the way interest works... from a German analysis: 80% of people lose some interest; 10% are neutral and 10% gain measurably. {principle being illustrated by these percentages not clear} Percentage of cost going in housing is 70%--a London local authority's housing account was spent as to about 75% in interest payments. Cost of almost any product or service in society almost 50% is derived from repayment of principal and interest. More money is owed in the world than exists. Under this paradigm you will never get out of debt and the tiny minority at the top will continue to suck wealth out of the system. Trickle down of wealth does not work since the wealthy never spend all their income but the rest is invested in an economy which cannot serve that investment because the productive capacity is not spread and so also the consuming capacity is not spread. Casino economy is corrupt and the next shoes to drop will be (i) Adjustable Rate Mortgage defaults in the USA and (ii) derivative transactions which do not in fact net each other out on a system wide basis even if they do on a bilateral basis so failures will lead to widespread default contamination.
DBS: and failed assets need not be shown on balance sheet immediately--in UK you can hide such but after some period it must be disclosed and these are now coming into view...
RS: you can sell and repurchase later... a lot is simply not on balance sheet sold to vehicles or packaged loans with false valuations and
DBS: but they have sold the same asset package more than once to more than the same set of buyers...
RS: these are just the opening stages of a 15-20 year (minimum) period of collapse unless the bankruptcy of the banking system is recognised and dealt with.


50:00-60:00
USA now moving towards fascism. Presence of guns, breach of posse comitatus prohibition of use of standing army soldiers in the country. Effective inflation of 10-15%. Time bomb which is why FEMA camps are being set up, spying on citizens, moves to confiscate guns.
DBS; back to the conference; will put your report on TFC website for perusal. UMNO(?) political party of Dr. Mahathir Mohamad.
RS: 2 groups effectively run Malaysian policies: Unno (Malaysian racial/ethnics) linked to BN national front party. Fearing effect on the country of the economic collapse of the West. Many extremists in the West like Christina Zionists, so wrong that Western media label Moslems as terrorists, extremists etc. A well known author wrote to RS on his report saying the moderate Moslems must condemn al-Quaida.
DBS: it is a fraud run by intel services of the USA and Israel, also Osama Bin Laden is dead. It means "the database" (originated when putting local forces against the Russians in Afghanistan).
RS: I pointed out that they attacked USS Cole...
DBS: that was done by Israel...
RS: but 9/11...
DBS: Israel again did that...
RS: Tower No. 7 can only be explained by recognising the Americans knew what was in the offing and wanted it and ensured it happened...
DBS: Israel was all over it...
RS: I'll take that point, it could have been the Israelis who were all over it but the Americans would know full well it was the Israelis...
DBS: but the Israelis are all over the American Govt. and control it.
RS: yes they control it...
DBS: NYU controlled at the top... issues to be discussed there are filtered so the 2000 talk happening was a surprise. 2/10 of 1 per cent. of the world's population are Jewish, but 7 out of 10 billionaires in the world are Jewish which explains how much power and influence they can exert. This is the real fight, the need to get this truth out into the mainstream.


60:00-70:00
RS: Jews and non-Jews are all in the business of interest and that is the bigger problem. Gave paper at Harvard in 2006 and 4 professors said they agreed with him; but America will never ever agree to getting rid of interests and this goes beyond any particular group. And regarding Zionism a nasty set are the Christian set who think Armageddon would be a good thing since they think they would be wafted up to heaven...
DBS: they are shepherded by the likes of John Hagee who has been in the pocket of Israel for a long time. Also Calvin was Cohen; Jacobins were financed by Jewish money to take over the Roman Catholic church in France. Same money funded the Russian revolution and killed the Czar who opposed them. The Christian Zionists are not the leaders or policy makers. Kissinger and above are from one group: Khazarian Ashkenazis and that fact can be proven by research.
RS: but still, how do you make the challenge? If you oppose riba you will not get tenure, same in the UK.  More and more people are opening their minds now.
DBS: Malaysia has come on in economic importance and the people there DO know who is behind these issues... World Bank: Robert Zoellik, Strauss-Kahn
RS: Malaysia were out of their difficulties in 2 years.
DBS: parallel story now happening in Iceland.
RS: binaryeconomics.net my website has homepage saying 53 false assumptions of mainstream neo-classical economics which it took me 35 years to work out! Just look to the opposite of the false assumption for the way forward. Most of those false assumptions are straightforward lies and uphold the existing paradigm.
DBS: before central banking introduced in USA in 1913 allodial titles existed in USA which gave compete ownership of the real estate to its owner. An example of where a layer of legalese has been superimposed over natural rights of individuals and people need to re-learn these basic rights.
RS: Ken Bohnsack started the American Sovereignty Movement supported by at least 23 politicians from both parties existing for over 10 years saying basically the Federal Reserve should issue interest free money and issue it to local authorities who would spend it into currency. But the sovereignty movement has been blocked because it challenged the institution of interest.


70:00-77:00
DBS: my experience started with teaching the status quo but unwittingly I produced "charlatans"; in the last 6 years I have re-educated myself and there is no going back.
RS: incremental process of re-evaluation such that now there is a complete disconnect between neo-classical economics and the outside world.
DBS: educating the people is the way, agreed there's no persuading the professors.
RS: existing prescriptions are making the situation worse. Jobs are being destroyed for good. Rich/poor divide has got wider. The West ripping off foreign countries so no prospect of ever repaying; e.g. Nigeria borrowed GBP5billion, in 200 the president complained they had already repaid 16billion, 28billion to go... it will never be repaid! This explains why the UK, USA are hated in the world.  
DBS: and if they step outside the system they will get the Serbia treatment. Not part of the Bank of International Settlements umbrella system.
RS: people are asleep, if they don't find the new thinking they will be debt serfs for the rest of their lives and their children will be too.
DBS: hopefully have RS on again in the near future, also more on this subject from additional people coming up.



{Bill Still's "The Secret of Oz" (2009--111 minutes) freely distributable update to "The Money Masters" seems an engaging and entertaining introduction to the money problem for the novice--unlike Ron Paul and mises.org it avoids advocating the gold standard snare. Also it does not require in order to be understood that the audience be primed in Zoharite Judaism and all its schemes. This latter might be thought objectionable but the past masters at TFC have spent years getting up to speed on this difficult subject and any system of education on the money problem which requires a rapid understanding of the sheer scope and effect of the "culture clash" underlying it is doomed to failure.}


{More generally there is an unusually informed piece appearing in a local free handout rag:
Camden New Journal--One Week with JOHN GULLIVER
Published: 3 January 2008
http://www.thecnj.com/camden/2008/01030 ... 08_02.html
By Ronald (Isaac)Stamper}