MGT's Critique of the Ten Commandments and Christs Two Great Commands.....

[mgt23]

[thread under construction]

I'm going go through these one by one. I will list four translations of the Ten+critique of the fourth(for sake of completeness), then use the two commandments of the catholic version. Lets begin....

http://godstenlaws.com/ten-commandments ... _AgF5Fp_RQ

The Ten Commandments Listed

Following are the Ten Commandments listed in Exodus 20 as given to the Children of Israel at Mount Sinai. The Ten Commandments are also found in Deuteronomy 5. The Ten Commandments here are presented in three different versions of the Bible.
King James
Version
   
New International Version
   
New Living
Translation
And God spake all these words, saying, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
   
And God spoke all these words: "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
   
Then God instructed the people as follows: "I am the Lord your God, who rescued you from slavery in Egypt.

1.

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
   

1.

You shall have no other gods before me.
   

1.

Do not worship any other gods besides me.

2.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
   

2.

You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
   

2.

Do not make idols of any kind, whether in the shape of birds or animals or fish. You must never worship or bow down to them, for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God who will not share your affection with any other god! I do not leave unpunished the sins of those who hate me, but I punish the children for the sins of their parents to the third and fourth generations. But I lavish my love on those who love me and obey my commands, even for a thousand generations.

3.

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
   

3.

You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
   

3.

Do not misuse the name of the Lord your God. The Lord will not let you go unpunished if you misuse his name.

4.

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
   

4.

Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
   

4.

Remember to observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days a week are set apart for your daily duties and regular work, but the seventh day is a day of rest dedicated to the Lord your God. On that day no one in your household may do any kind of work. This includes you, your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, your livestock, and any foreigners living among you. For in six days the Lord made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them; then he rested on the seventh day. That is why the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy.

5.

Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
   

5.

Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.
   

5.

Honor your father and mother. Then you will live a long, full life in the land the Lord your God will give you

6.

Thou shalt not kill.
   

6.

You shall not murder.
   

6.

Do not murder.

7.

Thou shalt not commit adultery.
   

7.

You shall not commit adultery.
   

7.

Do not commit adultery.

8.

Thou shalt not steal.
   

8.

You shall not steal.
   

8.

Do not steal.

9.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
   

9.

You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
   

9.

Do not testify falsely against your neighbor.

10.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
   

10

You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.
   

10.

Do not covet your neighbor's house. Do not covet your neighbor's wife, male or female servant, ox or donkey, or anything else your neighbor owns."

http://www.observethetencommandments.in ... dments.php

The Septuagint is the oldest copy of the Old Covenant(or Testament) available today. It predates the Masoretic Hebrew by over 1000 years. Complete manuscripts of the Septuagint still exist from the 4th center A.D., as well as fragments from 1st and 2nd century B.C. In addition to being older than the Masoretic Hebrew text, Jesus and the Apostles quoted exclusively from the Septuagint, verifying it for our use today.

The Septuagint was translated by the providence of God for the Israelites that had migrated to Egypt, Carthage, Rome, Greece, Parthia, Scythia, England, Ireland, Germany, France, Denmark, Sweden, Scandinavia, Norway, and the rest of Europe. The Greek language is derived from Phoenician. Many Phoenicians were also Israelites, many of them from the tribe of Dan. The Romans and the Greeks were both ancient Israelites probably from the tribe of Dan. Since Greek was the lingua franca at the time of Jesus Christ's incarnation, the Septuagint was the standard scriptures read in Israel and the rest of the Roman empire.

The History of the Septuagint, and its Terminology THE SEPTUAGINT, derived from the Latin word for "seventy," can be a confusing term, since it ideally refers to the third-century BC Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, executed in Alexandria, Egypt. But the full story behind the translation and the various stages, amplifications, and modifications to the collection we now call the Septuagint is complicated.

The earliest, and best known, source for the story of the Septuagint is the Letter of Aristeas, a lengthy document that recalls how Ptolemy (Philadelphus II [285–247 BC]), desiring to augment his library in Alexandria, Egypt, commissioned a translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek. Ptolemy wrote to the chief priest, Eleazar, in Jerusalem, and arranged for six translators from each of the twelve tribes of Israel. The seventy-two (altered in a few later versions to seventy or seventy-five) translators arrived in Egypt to Ptolemy's gracious hospitality, and translated the Torah (also called the Pentateuch: the first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures) in seventy-two days. Although opinions as to when this occurred differ, 282 BC is a commonly received date.

Philo of Alexandria (fl. 1st c AD) confirms that only the Torah was commissioned to be translated, and some modern scholars have concurred, noting a kind of consistency in the translation style of the Greek Penteteuch. Over the course of the three centuries following Ptolemy's project, however, other books of the Hebrew Scriptures were translated into Greek. It is not altogether clear which book was translated when, and in what locale. It seems that sometimes a Hebrew book was translated more than once, or that a particular Greek translation was revised. In other cases, a work was composed afresh in Greek, yet was included in subsequent collections of the Scriptures. By observing technical terms and translation styles, by comparing the Greek versions to the Dead Sea Scrolls, and by comparing them to Hellenistic literature, scholars are in the process of stitching together an elusive history of the translations that eventually found their way into collections.

By Philo's time the memory of the seventy-two translators was vibrant, an important part of Hebrew life in Alexandria (Philo, Life of Moses 2.25–44). Pilgrims, both Hebrews and Gentiles, celebrated a yearly festival on the island where they conducted their work. The celebrity of the Septuagint and its translators remained strong in Christianity. The earliest Christian references to the translation, from the mid-second century (SS Justin Martyr and Irenaeus), credit the entire Old Testament in Greek, whether originally written in Hebrew or not, to the seventy-two. Thus Christians conflated the Septuagint with their Old Testament canon (a canon that included the so-called apocrypha). For their part, Jewish rabbis, particularly Pharisees, reacted to the Christian appropriation of the Septuagint by producing fresh translations of their Scriptures (e.g., Aquila, in 128 AD, or Symmachus in the late 2d c. AD), and discouraging the use of the Septuagint. By the second century Christian and Jewish leaders had cemented their position on the form and character of the Scriptures. By and large, Christians held to the peculiar, prophetic character of their Septuagint, and Jews rejected it.

The Septuagint Ten Commandments in the 2001 Translation

Read the Ten Commandments as found in Exodus 20 from this very interesting translation of the Septuagint(Old Covenant) and the New Covenant from the 2001 Translation – An American English Bible.

Exodus 20:

1 Then Jehovah said all of this:

2 I am Jehovah your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt and out of the house of slavery. 3 So, you must have no gods other than Me.

4 You must not make images for yourselves of anything in the skies above, on the earth below, or things that live in the water under the earth.

5 You must not bow before them or serve them, for I Jehovah your God am a jealous God, and I bring the sins of the ancestors upon the children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren of those who hate Me.

6 But I am merciful to the thousands who love Me and keep My Commandments.

7 You must not misuse the Name of Jehovah your God, for Jehovah your God will not forgive those who misuse His Name.

8 Keep the Sabbath day and make it holy.

9 You may work and get everything done in six days,

10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of Jehovah your God, and you must do no work... not you, your son, your daughter, your male servant, your female servant, your ox, your burro, any of your cattle, or any strangers that are visiting among you.

11 Because, Jehovah made the sky, the ground, the sea, and everything in them, then He rested on the seventh day. So, Jehovah blessed the seventh day and made it sacred.

12 Honor your father and mother, as Jehovah your God commanded you, so that things may go well for you and that you may live a long time in the land that Jehovah your God is giving you.

13 You must not commit adultery.

14 You must not steal.

15 You must not commit murder.

16 You must not testify falsely against your neighbor.

17 You must not desire your neighbor's wife, his house, his field, his male servant, his female servant, his ox, his burro, any other animal, or anything else that belongs to your neighbor.
The Septuagint version of the commands

The Septuagint is the oldest copy of the Old Covenant(or Testament) available today. It predates the Masoretic Hebrew by over 1000 years. Complete manuscripts of the Septuagint still exist from the 4th center A.D., as well as fragments from 1st and 2nd century B.C. In addition to being older than the Masoretic Hebrew text, Jesus and the Apostles quoted exclusively from the Septuagint, verifying it for our use today.

March 17th, 2007

Ferrar Fenton completed his translation of the Bible in 1908. It gained some popularity for a while, and is still in use and in print. You can now read his translation of the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20 online. When Ferrar Fenton set out to make his translation his goal was to be fluent in koine Greek and Masoretic Hebrew as if it was his native language. He then rendered his translation in modern English. The result was a unique translation that sheds an interesting light on many passages of scripture. The Ferrar Fenton translation and his numerous footnores are well worth consulting in serious Bible study.

Apostolic Bible Polyglot - interlinear Septuagint and Greek New Testament
Ten Commandments in the Bible

List of the Ten Commandments of the Bible

    Moses and the Ten Commandments - When Moses was given the Ten Commandments in the Bible.
    The Ten Commandments in Deuteronomy - The second place in the Bible where the Ten Commandments are given.

http://www.the-ten-commandments.org/rom ... ments.html

Bible Ten Commandments    Catholic Ten Commandments
1st    

I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
   1st    

I am the LORD thy God. Thou shalt have no strange gods before Me.
2nd    

Exodus 20:4-6 You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my Commandments.
        

Deleted. See also idolatry in the Catholic Church

(There is idolatry in the Papal system so the second Commandment has been deleted or sometimes it has been absorbed into the first. All remaining Commandments are therefore shifted along one count.)
3rd    

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God In vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
   2nd    

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain.
4th    

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God: in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
   3rd    

Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.

(The Sabbath is the fourth Commandment by normal count. The day to be kept is no longer mentioned since they changed the Sabbath to Sunday.)

(Note that God had more to say about the fourth Commandment than all others and with good reason. It is very important.)
5th    

Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
   4th    

Honour thy father and thy mother.
6th    

Thou shalt not kill.
   5th    

Thou shalt not kill.
7th    

Thou shalt not commit adultery.
   6th    

Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8th    

Thou shalt not steal.
   7th    

Thou shalt not steal.
9th    

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
   8th    

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
10th    

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
   9th    

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife.

(The Tenth Commandment is split into two to get back to Ten Commandments.)
          10th    

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's goods.

http://www.secondexodus.com/html/cathol ... mmands.htm

Christ's Two Great Commands

 

Mt 22:36 "[Jesus], which is the great commandment in the law?" And he said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets."

 
Christ's First Great Command

The first is from the Shema: Dt 6:4 "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."

The Father explained: Dt 6:6 "These words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart; and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. And you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates."

This is an extremely powerful commandment. Jesus is telling us that we are to adore Him in every moment of our lives. We are to take our children from a very early age to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, to fill their hearts with Jesus. We are to talk about our love for Jesus when we sit in our house. When we sit down to dinner, we are to bless our food in His name and speak of Him. When we sit down in the evening, we are to open a Bible and reflect on His Word. We are to talk of our love for Jesus when we walk in our neighborhood or in a shopping mall. We are to talk of our love for Jesus when we go to bed in the evening and when we wake up in the morning. Our love for Jesus should be reflected in our actions and should be constantly before our eyes. Even the outdoor entryways to our home should reflect our love for Jesus, so that every passerby will know that in this house Jesus reigns as King.

 
Christ's Second Great Command

Lv 19:18 "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

The Jewish sage Yohanan ben Zakkai, most respected among the founders of Yavneh, taught that "loving our neighbor" means we have to take care of our neighbor's honor as much as our own, our neighbor's property as much as our own. Yet the ancient Israelites did not even love themselves very much. God called them to what is best for themselves but they rebelled, hurting themselves.

Jesus raised this commandment dramatically. He said, Mt 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'" The Hebrew Scriptures accepted hating the enemies of God. Ps 139:21 "Do I not hate them that hate Thee, O Lord? And do I not loathe them that rise up against Thee? I hate them with perfect hatred." He changed Lv 19:18 "love your neighbor" to Mt 5:44 "Love your enemies," expanding the range of our love from the neighborhood to the world. God loves all His covenant family; the most miserable refugee remains God's image and likeness. Jesus told us, Mt 25:40 "As you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me." The "coveting" commandments, Ex 20:17 prohibiting near occasions of sin, prefigured our Lord's raising several "love one another" commandments to new heights. The fifth commandment, Ex 20:13 "You shall not kill," became, Mt 5:22 "Every one who is angry ... shall be liable to judgment." The sixth, Ex 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery," became, Mt 5:28 "Every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." The eighth, Ex 20:16 "You shall not bear false witness," became, Mt 5:34 "Do not swear at all ... Let what you say be simply 'Yes' or 'No.'"

 
The Ten Commandments Reflect Christ's Two Great Commands

In all of Torah, only ten commandments were written Ex 31:18 "with the finger of God."

The first three teach us how to love God: "You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve," "You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain," and "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."

The remaining seven teach us how to love one another: "Honor your father and your mother," "You shall not kill," "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet your neighbor's wife," and "You shall not covet your neighbor's property."

http://www.catholicity.com/baltimore-ca ... son15.html

The Two Great Commandments

Lesson 15 from the Baltimore Cathechism

« prev : next »
188. Besides believing what God has revealed, what else must we do to be saved?

Besides believing what God has revealed, we must keep His law.

If you love me, keep my commandments. (John 14:15)
189. Which are the two great commandments that contain the whole law of God?

The two great commandments that contain the whole law of God are:

    Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength;
    Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

And one of them, a doctor of the Law, putting him to the test, asked him, "Master, which is the great commandment in the Law?" Jesus said to him, "'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.' This is the greatest and the first commandment. And the second is like it, 'Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.' On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." (Matthew 22:35-40)
190. What must we do to love God, our neighbor, and ourselves?

To love God, our neighbor, and ourselves we must keep the commandments of God and of the Church, and perform the spiritual and corporal works of mercy.

My dear children, let us not love in word, neither with the tongue, but in deed and in truth. (I John 3:18)
191. Which are the chief corporal works of mercy?

The chief corporal works of mercy are seven:

    To feed the hungry.
    To give drink to the thirsty.
    To clothe the naked.
    To visit the imprisoned.
    To shelter the homeless.
    To visit the sick.
    To bury the dead.

192. Which are the chief spiritual works of mercy?

The chief spiritual works of mercy are seven:

    To admonish the sinner.
    To instruct the ignorant.
    To counsel the doubtful.
    To comfort the sorrowful.
    To bear wrongs patiently.
    To forgive all injuries.
    To pray for the living and the dead.

193. Is everyone obliged to perform the works of mercy?

Everyone is obliged to perform the works of mercy, according to his own ability and the need of his neighbor.

For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in; naked, and you covered me; sick, and you visited me; I was in prison, and you came to me. (Matthew 25:35-36)
194. Are all the ordinary deeds done every day to relieve the corporal or spiritual needs of others true works of mercy?

All the ordinary deeds done every day to relieve the corporal or spiritual needs of others are true works of mercy, if done in the name of Christ.

For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink in my name, because you are Christ's, amen I say to you, he shall not lose his reward. (Mark 9:40)
195. Which are the commandments of God?

The commandments of God are these ten:

    I am the Lord thy God; thou shalt not have strange gods before Me.
    Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
    Remember thou keep holy the Lord's day.
    Honor thy father and thy mother.
    Thou shalt not kill.
    Thou shalt not commit adultery.
    Thou shalt not steal.
    Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
    Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife.
    Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods.

196. Should we be satisfied merely to keep the commandments God?

We should not be satisfied merely to keep the commandments of God, but should always be ready to do good deeds, even when they are not commanded.

If thou wilt be perfect, go, sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me. (Matthew 19:21)
197. What does Our Savior especially recommend that is not strictly commanded by the law of God?

Our Savior especially recommends the observance of the Evangelical Counsels – voluntary poverty, perpetual chastity, and perfect obedience.

You therefore are to be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect. (Matthew 5:48)

so lets start with the first of ten.......

And God spake all these words, saying, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.  1.

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

i am assuming this is what was meant here rather than the colloquial "master"

LORD ~ (A) ~ a special name for God that his people use. It is the covenant name of God. In Hebrew it is Yahweh or Jehovah .

In my analysis of tracing archetypes via scripts, back to the original three proto-scripts and beyond that pure symbolism of our ancient shamanic ancestors of the ice age who used icons; It seemed to me here that the "Jews" were a genetic mish mash of slave/servant/workers in Ancient Egypt who worked at the Pharaohs behest on various projects. Like immigrant workers of today they over many generations followed the money and worked/were educated in the local system bring there own various influences/archetypes and bred children who over time became purely indoctrinated into the prevailing system of the time. It was here in Egypt that the "mystery schools" developed to achieved two aims.

1)The original archetypes were sought to be preserved over time against the influx of new ideas and archetypes from the new immigrants. The Egyptians were notoriously insular against immigrants but really this has to be understood at as a protection mechanism for preserving the authenticity of their system, which they had inherited from the Akkadians and before them the Sumerians (one has to ask the questions, were the ancient egyptians of the old dynasty aware of and be able to translate Sumerian cuneiform?....one has to wonder). The priesthood through revelation of older mysteries would indoctrinate the acolyte with a sense of "underground truth" against the "goyim masses" basing its authority on documented truth of historicity.
 So bondage here didn't just mean physical slavery/impoverishment, materially and spiritually but to a false chronology which was deliberately manifested by the current establishment for mind control purposes. Isn't that the point of any institutional priest class? No matter how well intentioned.
 The Second point was that the priesthood themselves then became enslaved to the accidental/deliberate errors in replication of their own system the further down the ranks they were and further along time they progressed. In other words the system became more and more refined with conscious selective pressure through the timelines of each cult. They had ways of testing the faith of each new initiate of whatever rank, which weeded out those who had inauthentic intentions or even worse for them infiltrators(It is interesting to note that i consider the temple of Seth and the temple of Saturn to be one and the same for precisely this point)

By building on the monotheism of Akhenaten, this new monotheism swept over the middle east as the cult of Akhenaten was suppressed and went underground. It is my contention that the whole Moses paradigm is "Amenhotep IV".....following Abrahamic (whether or not he existed is irrelevant here) teachings from Sumerian cuneiform.
 These new "Jews" told to be circumcised as a means of recognition but in reality a pain based trauma DMT release based on existing priesthood mind control technologies, then spread this monotheism around the traditional Egyptian trade routes.

[mgt23]

Do not worship any other gods besides me.

2.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

In essence this is taken to mean that any form of material representation of the singularity is inadequate and flawed. Kurt Godel showed this with his "incompleteness theorem" and interestingly he converted to islam for this very reason whilst i believe suffering immense paranoia that the jews were going to poison him via his wife who he probably thought was a witch. Reality they say is a form of logic trap that the jew Ludwig Wittgenstein also fell into hence his conversion to Roman Catholicism and his attempt at a second philosophy of language. By the way my own system of Agnostic Logical Positivism annihilates both these views and leads to the path of faith in a "true belief" quest. Consider the following.....

 "I do not know whether or not, any given proposition has a truth value of nonsense or not; including this statement."

.....this is ALP in a nutshell. ALP shows that all truth is transcendental in substance and is revealed not in a solving of a logic problem, but in a connection of divine mysticism which surprises you. Usually in the form of Will, emotion and aesthetic. The jealous God type applied by the jews because of akkenatenism will deliver a deep irony when they in fact realise that god exists not as a sun disc but as a singularity. It's one of the main reasons the jew gives his soul to the jewish race as they believe in a way that after they die, the race is all that will continue to exist of them......they are in for one hell of a shock. Time travelling backwards to the big bang is going to lead to a very hot end for them in the primordial soup.
 I had a very difficult time reconciling the third to fourth generation as this is exactly what the north koreans do and probably every jew state cult in history. I believe it is based on the fact of weeding out the emotional hatred from tranmission of one human maximum lifetime of about 140 years(current). Judgement based on the content of character of human law(assuming you even agree with this which i dont think is desirable or even possible) would seem to be out the window and here if your preceeding generation hates the creator for whatever reason, the need for redemption through the belief of a discreet christ in the present(and past+future) would seem a necessity. Why should one be damned for simply being born, especially if you are brought up with adoptive parents. The showing love to your enemy would seem to be the testing the soul through suffering al la Job. Christ would say something similar in loving/displaying compassion to your enemies. The keeping of the commandments is assuming that they are written by god and not a priest cult, regardless of their moral worth. It is claiming that God's law supersedes human law, hard to argue with....my only qualm is what that law exactly is and its application in strictly personal sense of the individual.

[Christopher Marlowe]

In essence this is taken to mean that any form of material representation of the singularity is inadequate and flawed.

While I do believe that it is possible to find support in the Scriptures for a philosophical argument regarding the limits of material representation, I think that, as regarding sin, this commandment is much simpler and takes a much narrower view than that. We can try to capture a material representation of an idea, but that alone is not sin.  When we put this representation before God, then that would be to sin. This gets at the sinful nature of materialism: greed, lust, envy.  

The idea of making images, without more, as being sinful is refuted by the Arc of the Covenant, which was Holy, but had images of Angels on it.  Also Moses made a bronze serpent in the desert. That was not sin. The bronze serpent represented the sin of the people even though it had no sin in it. The people who looked on the serpent did not die: in this way we are called to contemplate our sin as a means of salvation. We reflect on how our sin caused us pain. Jesus said that he had to be lifted up in the same way that Moses held up the serpent in the desert. Jesus was saying that he would also represent sin, even though he had no sin. He took the form of sin: a man condemned to die, convicted by a court of law. But like the bronze serpent, Jesus had no sin in him.  And as we gaze on a Crucifix, we are called to contemplate the nature of our sin. To look on a Crucifix is to pray. That is why Jews and vampires hate the Crucifix.  
 

Kurt Godel showed this with his "incompleteness theorem" and interestingly he converted to islam for this very reason whilst i believe suffering immense paranoia that the jews were going to poison him via his wife who he probably thought was a witch.

The philosophy of the Incompleteness Theorem is essentially a Platonist one. Godel was against positivism.

Godel was in favor of metaphysics and opposed to positivism. See A logical Journey: From Godel to Philosophy by Hao Wang (MIT, 1996) at 138.

Godel expressed an admiration for Isalam, but there is nothing to show that he converted.
 

"I like Islam: it is a consistent [or consequential] idea of religion and open-minded."
A logical Journey: From Godel to Philosophy by Hao Wang (MIT, 1996) at 148.  

"In 1975 Godel gave his own religion as "baptized" Lutheran (though not a member of any religious congregation) and noted that his belief was theistic, not pantheistic, following Liebniz rather than Spinoza. " Id at 112.

"Einstein's religion is more abstract, like that of Spinoza and Indian philosophy. My own religion is more similar to the religion of the churches. Spinoza's God is less than a person. Mine is more than a person, because God can't be less than a person. He can play the roll of a person.  There are spirits which have no body but can communicate with and influence the world.  The keep [themselves] in the background today and are not known.  It was different in antiquity and in the Middle Ages, when there were miracles." Id at 152.

These statements would tend to negate the belief that Godel was a Muslim. Muslims deny the Incarnation.

Why should one be damned for simply being born, especially if you are brought up with adoptive parents.

In the Catholic view, one is not damned for simply being born. One is damned for one's own mortal sin.

The showing love to your enemy would seem to be the testing the soul through suffering al la Job. Christ would say something similar in loving/displaying compassion to your enemies. The keeping of the commandments is assuming that they are written by god and not a priest cult, regardless of their moral worth. It is claiming that God's law supersedes human law, hard to argue with....my only qualm is what that law exactly is and its application in strictly personal sense of the individual.

While I think Christ's specific approval of the 10 commandments could be seen as an "incorporation" of them into His own Covenant, I think it is important to remember that Christ's Covenant superceded the Old Covenant.  The New Covenant is a Covenant of Grace that replaced the Old Covenant of Law. The Law was inadequate as a means of salvation.   God introduced the Law to show what sin is; that humans could not effect their own salvation because of our sinful nature.  

Going back to the point you made earlier, the limited ability of language enables humans to believe that they can sin or avoid doing good and still fulfill the law. Jesus gives many examples of this when he debates the Jews.  If a person is sinning and then using the law to show that he is doing good, then that is wicked. A person knows that he is sinning because his conscience tells him that he sins. People lie about what they do, or they do things in secret because they know that they are sinning.

Jesus establishes a New Covenant that is founded on parables.  The 10 commandments tell us what sin is, but the New Covenant helps the individual to avoid sin by remaining in a relationship with Christ. The New Covenant is easier because we are aided by God's Grace.

The difference between the Law and the New Covenant can be seen when Jesus says,

You have heard that it was said to them of old: Thou shalt not commit adultery. But I say to you, that whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Jesus' Covenant is a Covenant of righteous living. If I continually lust after women, eventually I will fall into sin. It doesn't do any good for me to continually lust and then uphold some external law. I am still in sin even though I have the outward appearance of cleanliness.  

Rather than establishing laws, Jesus gives us Beatitudes:

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    Blessed are the meek: for they shall possess the land.
    Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted.
    Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill.
    Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
    Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God.
    Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
    Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Rather than merely avoiding hell, the Christian works to become Holy. The goal of a Christian is to go to Heaven. We cannot go to Heaven unless we are Holy. The Beatitudes tell us how to become Holy.  The Church has given us Corporal works of Mercy and Spiritual Works of Mercy that help us to become Holy.  

Sin is essentially turning away from God. If we remain in communion with God, then we will not sin. Thus, by practicing our Faith and remaining in communion with Christ, we can become Holy and have Eternal Life.

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

Interesting, MGT. Thanks.

Ferrar Fenton was a British Israelist by the way.

[mgt23]

i will continually add day by day so i ask for a bit of patience as i work my way through with some analysis and personal thoughts.

[mgt23]

3.

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

3.

You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

3.

Do not misuse the name of the Lord your God. The Lord will not let you go unpunished if you misuse his name.

SEPTvrsn:

7 You must not misuse the Name of Jehovah your God, for Jehovah your God will not forgive those who misuse His Name.

The terms "misuse" and "vain" are the operative terms here with a confusion of guiltless being turned into god will punish/not forgive.

At first i took this to mean
1)do not take gods name as your own.
2)do not use gods name in pride.
....both are indications of the ego wishing to subsume that of god in order to validate its own self-identity. A straightforward satanic goal. The term misuse could be a whole host of things but one would assume in the context of the ten commandments, that it is to use the power of the name of god in violation of the other nine commandments. All of this is based on the pretext that the LORD has a name.
 This has probably sparked more wars, lies, disputes in the history of man than anything else. In we keep in mind the egyptian model where to know an agents secret spiritual name was to have power over that agent. So the quest to know the name of God and thereby exercise power over or for that name is one of the main quests of man.

"I am Yahweh, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, or My praise to idols."[6]

^ Isaiah 42:8, Holman Christian Standard Bible; New Bible Dictionary, Second Edition, Tyndale House, (1982) pp. 524–527; BD Sommer, Introduction to Isaiah and Annotated Commentary, The Jewish Study Bible, Oxford University Press (2004) pp. 780–784, p. 867;(On-line link to alternate version: Isa. 42:

.....seems pretty unequivocal to me if you accept Isiah. This is probably why Hoffman uses it and why the Talmudic jew wont use it and due their prerogative "of the subjective discretion of the sage" nullify Isiah along with taking a dim view of Elijah.

....but beyond this it seems alien to me that we could ever know the name of God until we stand before him. If we do not know the name in the first place then how can you misuse it or take it in vain. Certainly cultures which have been cut off from civilization for least 5 thousand years like in the amazon or native aboriginals before western contact wouldn't have know that name. I think the singularity defies definitions and to say a particular label has power begs the question of how this is so. Why does Yahweh have that name? What because it makes a pretty pattern in sand rings on the surface of a drum when issuing a tone? Because when i chant that name i get a resonant serotonin/DMT release? I'm not convinced. Furthermore my relationship to my creator is an empathic one based on a feeling of love and awe.

It's not based on language. No matter how many names i issue or in what ever way i say them it will not encapsulate what i feel. I don't need a name to know my creator, only maybe when i need to convey this to (what i see as)  a separate entity. My creator when I'm aware, is all knowing, all powerful, all merciful, all beneficent, all loving and all compassionate. Its the communion with God that's important, not the proselytizing of a name.

[Christopher Marlowe]

Even without proving an objective [NAME of God], there could be a subjective interpretation of this command.
If I believe that God is loving, merciful, compassionate, all-knowing...
If I believe that, for example, [Jesus] is the name of this God.
Then my saying the name of [Jesus] in a way that defames Him is a reflection on me. For whatever reason, I have taken what I believe to be Holy and I have tried to cast it down.
That would tend to show an antipathy towards God.
My defamation of [the name that I consider to be the name of God] casts judgment on me.