Fomenko has been universally rejected by mainstream scholars

[joeblow]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chronology_(Fomenko)

Although Fomenko is a well-respected mathematician, his historical theories have been universally rejected by mainstream scholars, who brand them as pseudoscience.[25] Russian critics tended to see Fomenko's New Chronology as "an embarrassment and a potent symbol of the depths to which the Russian academy and society have generally sunk ... since the fall of Communism."[26] Western critics see his views as part of a renewed Russian imperial ideology, "keeping alive an imperial consciousness and secular messianism in Russia."[27][28]

In 2004 Anatoly Fomenko with his coauthor Gleb Nosovsky were awarded for their books on "New Chronology" the anti-prize of the Moscow International Book Fair called "Abzatz" (Indent) in the category "Honorary illiteral" awarded for the worst book published in Russia Антипремия «Абзац»

Critics have accused Fomenko of altering the data to improve the fit with his ideas and have noted that he violates a key rule of statistics by selecting matches from the historical record which support his chronology, while ignoring those which do not, creating artificial, better-than-chance correlations, and that these practices undermine Fomenko's statistical arguments.[29] The new chronology was given a comprehensive critical analysis in a round table on "The 'Myths' of New Chronology" chaired by the dean of the department of history of Moscow State University in December 1999.[30][31][32] One of the participants in that round table, the distinguished Russian archaeologist, Valentin Yanin, compared Fomenko's work to "the sleight of hand trickery of a David Copperfield."[33]

[blueocean]

Interesting view by Jewpedia.

What does Jewpedia say about 911?

[joeblow]

Here's a non-Wikipedia article from his RUSSIAN peers, would you now like to start defending this bullshit artist yet?

http://maik.maik.rssi.ru/abstract/heral ... 217abs.htm

The "new chronology" views of Academician A.T. Fomenko and his followers concerning the process of world
history were discussed in the historical department of Moscow State University, chaired by its dean, Professor
S.P. Karpov, on December 21, 1999. The pioneers of the "new chronology" consider it a scientific concept rest-
ing on the achievements of mathematics and their interpretation of the works of ancient astronomers. This has
raised objections among many scholars. The scientific press and the mass media point out the faults and distor-
tions in the works of Fomenko and his followers (e.g., see Vestn. Ross. Akad. Nauk, 1999, no. 12). But Fomenko
and company continue to propagate their novel idea. As the growing popularity of the Fomenko group's views
and publications are a grave danger to Russia's culture as a whole, the round table subjected them to a compre-
hensive critical analysis. Taking part were specialists in Russian and world history, religion, linguistics, and
astronomy. Below is the text of the contribution by V.L. Yanin, eminent historian and archaeologist, and specif-
ically a student of the history and culture of Ancient Russia.

The frame0Gaping Heightsframe1 of Academician Fomenko

V. L. Yanin*

[mgt23]

first wiki link does not work

[joeblow]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chronology

[Anonymous]

You are a funny one Joe

If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way.
     Bertrand Russell

Here's a non-Wikipedia article from his RUSSIAN peers, would you now like to start defending this bullshit artist yet?

http://maik.maik.rssi.ru/abstract/heral ... 217abs.htm

The "new chronology" views of Academician A.T. Fomenko and his followers concerning the process of world
history were discussed in the historical department of Moscow State University, chaired by its dean, Professor
S.P. Karpov, on December 21, 1999. The pioneers of the "new chronology" consider it a scientific concept rest-
ing on the achievements of mathematics and their interpretation of the works of ancient astronomers. This has
raised objections among many scholars. The scientific press and the mass media point out the faults and distor-
tions in the works of Fomenko and his followers (e.g., see Vestn. Ross. Akad. Nauk, 1999, no. 12). But Fomenko
and company continue to propagate their novel idea. As the growing popularity of the Fomenko group's views
and publications are a grave danger to Russia's culture as a whole, the round table subjected them to a compre-
hensive critical analysis. Taking part were specialists in Russian and world history, religion, linguistics, and
astronomy. Below is the text of the contribution by V.L. Yanin, eminent historian and archaeologist, and specif-
ically a student of the history and culture of Ancient Russia.

The frame0Gaping Heightsframe1 of Academician Fomenko

V. L. Yanin*

Please provide "The scientific press and the mass media point out the faults and distor-
tions in the works of Fomenko and his followers"

It is really simple. He provides his methods and data, others can take that information and repeat the process. It either is or it isn't correct. He states quite clearly when stating his belief, or interpretation.

All I can say is that everything I have looked into seems to raise eyebrows.

I would be willing to discuss any portion of his work that I have read with you and anyone to flush it out. If you object to something, or some process or whatever, let's create a topic somewhere and discuss it and flush it out.

His work essentially destroys the "Jews", Church, all religions, empires and monarchy's and more. It takes all the mystical bull and brings the whole conspiracy back to reality.

When you say bullshit artist, what specific bullshit are you referring to that this artist created?

[mgt23]

link works now thx

Garry Kasparov is a supporter of Fomenko;[22] Billington writes that the theory "might have quietly blown away in the wind tunnels of academia" if not for Kasparov's writing in support of it in the magazine Ogonyok.[23] Kasparov met Fomenko during the 1990s, and found that Fomenko's conclusions concerning certain subjects were identical to his own. Specifically, regarding the alleged Dark Ages, Kasparov was incredulous towards the commonly held notion that art and culture died and were not revived until the Renaissance. Kasparov also felt it illogical that the Romans and the Greeks living under the banner of Byzantium could fail to use the mounds of scientific knowledge left them by Ancient Greece and Rome, especially when it was of urgent military use. However, Kasparov does not support the reconstruction part of the New Chronology. [24]

i would worry if kasparov is supporting it. note he doesnt support the reconstruction however

# That the Book of Revelation we know of contains a horoscope that is dated to 25 September - 10 October 1486 compiled by cabbalist Johannes Reuchlin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Reuchlin
cabbalist

[Anonymous]

link works now thx

Garry Kasparov is a supporter of Fomenko;[22] Billington writes that the theory "might have quietly blown away in the wind tunnels of academia" if not for Kasparov's writing in support of it in the magazine Ogonyok.[23] Kasparov met Fomenko during the 1990s, and found that Fomenko's conclusions concerning certain subjects were identical to his own. Specifically, regarding the alleged Dark Ages, Kasparov was incredulous towards the commonly held notion that art and culture died and were not revived until the Renaissance. Kasparov also felt it illogical that the Romans and the Greeks living under the banner of Byzantium could fail to use the mounds of scientific knowledge left them by Ancient Greece and Rome, especially when it was of urgent military use. However, Kasparov does not support the reconstruction part of the New Chronology. [24]

i would worry if kasparov is supporting it. note he doesnt support the reconstruction however

# That the Book of Revelation we know of contains a horoscope that is dated to 25 September - 10 October 1486 compiled by cabbalist Johannes Reuchlin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Reuchlin
cabbalist

In 2001 and 2002 GK Kasparov voiced his support of the New Chronology in its critical part a couple of times, on the radio and the television

http://books.google.com.hk/books?id=Ycj ... ch_s&cad=0

What is your point about the cabbalist?

It seems to me that the astrologers and cabbalist worked hand in hand

Appendix 4: Responses to the study on the revision of history

http://translate.google.com.hk/translat ... n%26sa%3DG

translated from Russian to English

COMMENTARY. Article negative. Article negative. Written historian. Written historian.
No meaningful arguments. No meaningful arguments. Pert style starts with Pert style starts with
First page: First page:


1997 1997

1) Sergei Leskov. 1) Sergei Leskov. "According to estimates published: serve Jesus Christ "According to estimates published: serve Jesus Christ
Roman Pope. Roman Pope. " - The newspaper "Izvestia", 29 January 1997. "- The newspaper" Izvestia ", 29 January 1997.
COMMENTARY. COMMENTARY. Article negative. Article negative. Substantive objections Substantive objections
not given. not given. Our reply was sent to the newspaper "Izvestia" Our reply was sent to the newspaper "Izvestia"
We give below. We give below. This response newspaper did not publish. This response newspaper did not publish.
2) Vladimir Hozikov. 2) Vladimir Hozikov. "Fantomy." "Fantomy." - The newspaper of St. - The newspaper of St. Petersburg Petersburg
Vedomosti, 5 February 1997. Vedomosti, 5 February 1997.
COMMENTARY. COMMENTARY. Article friendly. Article friendly. The crux of the problem outlined The crux of the problem outlined
quite clearly. quite clearly.
3) Igor Chachuh. 3) Igor Chachuh. "Secrets of Kenigsbergskoy Chronicles." "Secrets of Kenigsbergskoy Chronicles." - Magazine - Magazine
"Landmarks", No.1, pp. "Landmarks", No.1, pp. 68-73. 68-73.
COMMENTARY. COMMENTARY. Friendly article clearly sets out the essence Friendly article clearly sets out the essence
problem. problem.
4) AL Ponomarev. 4) AL Ponomarev.


1999 1999

1) Garry Kasparov. 1) Garry Kasparov. "The black hole of history." "The black hole of history." The magazine "Ogonyok" The magazine "Ogonyok"
Rooms 1,2, p.27-31, and No. Rooms 1,2, p.27-31, and No. 3, s.34-37, January 1999. 3, s.34-37, January 1999.
COMMENTARY. COMMENTARY. This great program article, written by a champion This great program article, written by a champion
World Chess GK Kasparovym, sets out his views on World Chess GK Kasparovym, sets out his views on
the problem of "old" stories. the problem of "old" stories. He is beginning his article saying: "Poyasnyu He is beginning his article saying: "Poyasnyu
because of his interest in the issue of chronology. because of his interest in the issue of chronology. Ancient, medieval and Ancient, medieval and
a new history, I deeply fond of children, re-great a new history, I deeply fond of children, re-great
number of historical works and books. number of historical works and books. I have a good memory, I have a good memory,
most of the historical dates, names, events can remember by heart ... most of the historical dates, names, events can remember by heart ... I love I love
analyze, "the different possibilities, comparing the situation. And analyze, "the different possibilities, comparing the situation. And
there is. there is. I gradually became to emerge feeling that the date of I gradually became to emerge feeling that the date of
Ancient history is not all right. Ancient history is not all right. Here and there arose Here and there arose
contradictions insoluble in the traditional stories. contradictions insoluble in the traditional stories. "Next "Next
GK Kasparov leads many serious arguments and found them GK Kasparov leads many serious arguments and found them
interesting facts pointing to the need to revise the chronology interesting facts pointing to the need to revise the chronology
"antiquity". "antiquity". As the edition of the magazine Ogonyok "on page 36 As the edition of the magazine Ogonyok "on page 36
No. No. 3, "Garry Kasparov - rabid advocate of the theory of mathematics 3, "Garry Kasparov - rabid advocate of the theory of mathematics
Anatoly Fomenko. Anatoly Fomenko. " "
2) Alexander Nikonov. 2) Alexander Nikonov. "The history of Fomenko: Russian - one of the tribes "The history of Fomenko: Russian - one of the tribes
Israel. Israel. "Magazine" Ogonyok, No. "Magazine" Ogonyok, No. 3, January 1999, pp. 3, January 1999, pp. 38-39. 38-39.
COMMENTARY. COMMENTARY. This article posted in the magazine after the article This article posted in the magazine after the article
GK Kasparov, and it briefly, and in a sense, neutral, reported GK Kasparov, and it briefly, and in a sense, neutral, reported
Our work on chronology. Our work on chronology. In our view style article too In our view style article too
"razvlekatelen." "razvlekatelen."
3) Alexander Kolpakov. 3) Alexander Kolpakov. "At the Novy Arbat - for skifskimi arrows." "At the Novy Arbat - for skifskimi arrows."
The newspaper Moskovsky Komsomolets, 15 January 1999. The newspaper Moskovsky Komsomolets, 15 January 1999.
COMMENTARY. COMMENTARY. This is - an interview with the archaeologist, corresponding member of the Russian Academy of Sciences, This is - an interview with the archaeologist, corresponding member of the Russian Academy of Sciences,
Nikolai Makarov. Nikolai Makarov. As he went on encourages negative about our As he went on encourages negative about our
research on the chronology: "We have witnessed the emergence of mass research on the chronology: "We have witnessed the emergence of mass
essays on historical topics, written by ambitious dilettante, essays on historical topics, written by ambitious dilettante,
or by direct ballot rigging. or by direct ballot rigging. What stand alone books Fomenko. What stand alone books Fomenko. Layman Layman
difficult in this deal. difficult in this deal. "I must say that N. Makarov participated in "I must say that N. Makarov participated in
special meeting of the Bureau of the Office of History of the Russian Academy of Sciences on 22 April 1998, special meeting of the Bureau of the Office of History of the Russian Academy of Sciences on 22 April 1998,
where our work has been strongly condemned. where our work has been strongly condemned. Our comment on Our comment on
about the published transcripts of the meeting, see above. about the published transcripts of the meeting, see above. Curiously, Curiously,
that at a meeting of the Bureau of the Office of History correspondent member. that at a meeting of the Bureau of the Office of History correspondent member. N. N. Makarov acted Makarov acted
neutral and even constructive. neutral and even constructive. However, as we have seen over the past year However, as we have seen over the past year
his position has changed, and he joined to the historians, his position has changed, and he joined to the historians,
that all forces are trying to pretend that the problem of history that all forces are trying to pretend that the problem of history
does not exist. does not exist. By the way, drew the attention of complaints N. By the way, drew the attention of complaints N. Makarov, Makarov,
that a layman is difficult in this deal. that a layman is difficult in this deal. " "
4) Dmitry Stahov. 4) Dmitry Stahov. "Letter from Harry K. Kasparov." "Letter from Harry K. Kasparov." Magazine Magazine
"Ogonyok", No. "Ogonyok", No. 9, March 1999, P.26-27. 9, March 1999, P.26-27.
COMMENTARY. COMMENTARY. Article negative, purely emotional, no Article negative, purely emotional, no
substantive arguments, it does not. substantive arguments, it does not. Profession author is not specified. Profession author is not specified. Style Style
pert. pert. That skaligerovskaya chronology is correct, the author of the letter That skaligerovskaya chronology is correct, the author of the letter
as he himself said knew of "wise persons" (p. 27), and when as he himself said knew of "wise persons" (p. 27), and when
he drank beer with one specialist (page 27). he drank beer with one specialist (page 27). At the end of the article cited At the end of the article cited
Novella Matveeva: "Because you can drop the barrel to extract, through a straw -- Novella Matveeva: "Because you can drop the barrel to extract, through a straw --
lap! lap! " "
5) Elena Katsyuba. 5) Elena Katsyuba. "Novgorod in Yaroslavl. The newspaper Novye Izvestia from "Novgorod in Yaroslavl. The newspaper Novye Izvestia from
13 April 1999. 13 April 1999.
COMMENTARY. COMMENTARY. This negative commentary television journalists. This negative commentary television journalists. Newspaper Newspaper
Keywords, which published an article called: Telenedelya with Keywords, which published an article called: Telenedelya with
Elena Katsyuboy. Elena Katsyuboy. "Nothing but the emotion in the article no. Fashion forward: "Nothing but the emotion in the article no. Fashion forward:


GV Nosovsky, AT Fomenko. GV Nosovsky, AT Fomenko. RESPONSE TO ARTICLE AL PONOMAREVA RESPONSE TO ARTICLE AL PONOMAREVA

(Faculty of History MSU). (Faculty of History MSU).
Article AL Ponomareva published in the newsletter Article AL Ponomareva published in the newsletter
Association of History and the computer ", No.18, p.127-154, July 1996, Association of History and the computer ", No.18, p.127-154, July 1996,
Moscow. Moscow. It discusses our work on the astronomical datable It discusses our work on the astronomical datable
"Almagesta" Ptolemy [PC-3a], [PC-3b] as well as parodies of our "Almagesta" Ptolemy [PC-3a], [PC-3b] as well as parodies of our
Work on the application of mathematical methods to history. Work on the application of mathematical methods to history.
Answer parody, we will not, as regards the astronomical Answer parody, we will not, as regards the astronomical
parts, give a brief answer. parts, give a brief answer.
1. 1. AL Ponomarev said if we datiruem "Almagest" AL Ponomarev said if we datiruem "Almagest"
a "combination of a four-course", has consistently alleged moving a "combination of a four-course", has consistently alleged moving
dating to the VII century AD until the era of Galileo (s.129). dating to the VII century AD until the era of Galileo (s.129). Nothing Nothing
this in our work there. this in our work there. We have clearly articulated our results We have clearly articulated our results
in the section entitled "Conclusions" chapter "dating star catalog Almagesta" in the section entitled "Conclusions" chapter "dating star catalog Almagesta"
[PC-3b], s.180. [PC-3b], s.180. Namely: "Interval dating obtained Namely: "Interval dating obtained
proposed statistical and geometric procedures proposed statistical and geometric procedures
ranges from 600 years BC prior to 1300 AD " ranges from 600 years BC prior to 1300 AD "
2. 2. AL Ponomarev: "If you follow AT Fomenko, there were three AL Ponomarev: "If you follow AT Fomenko, there were three
ways to measure time and, accordingly, three-time "(s.129). ways to measure time and, accordingly, three-time "(s.129).

[Anonymous]

I don't know if one would/could describe Bertrand Russell as a cabalist or no (I'm pretty sure one could), but he was certainly one of them - i.e., part of the criminal cabal [the "fabian socialist" part, at very least] - as were Aldous & Julian Huxley, &c. {but NOT their grandfather Thomas Huxley, far as I know or I can tell - altho' there's some might beg to differ})...

does it make his statement any less true

Fomenko on hist critics

http://books.google.com.hk/books?id=Ycj ... t&resnum=4

[Anonymous]

If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way.
Bertrand Russell

No, bro, I think he errs on several points (and is altogether droll and banal in his effort to be novel, sharp and witty) - esp. in his use of words or terms, hence in his grand conclusion. First off, if 'a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts', he is not likely to examine it all, or only cursorily... the next part of his sentence is true, 'if it accords with his instincts he will accept it out of hand'. BUT, the thing that makes his comment even more questionable and suspect (to me, who am no genius and no scholar), is his use of the word 'instinct" instead of his "brainwashing" or "learning" (i.e., whatever he's been taught or told) - which makes the comment come off like a piece of agitprop itself (again, to me). And the origins of myths are NOT explained his way, imo. (Haha, if that made zero sense and was a waste of time, forgive me - I can only tell you that I tried, etc.)


Instincts don't create myths - lies, fictions and hyperboles do (or something to that effect)?

I see your point, assuming that instinct means inborn pattern of behavior. At which point I would have to ask what instincts does man have, and I think Bertrands response might be that man is credulous. I guess it all depends on what he meant by instinct.

Instinct
n.
   1. An inborn pattern of behavior that is characteristic of a species and is often a response to specific environmental stimuli: the spawning instinct in salmon; altruistic instincts in social animals.
   2. A powerful motivation or impulse.
   3. An innate capability or aptitude: an instinct for tact and diplomacy.

[joeblow]

I'll be addressing all my future replies in this thread only to JohnSavage, unless other people, who are also public and steadfast Fomenko supporters, challenge my statements.

1. I'm now collecting background personal information on Fomenko, to discover any and all alliances.
2. I will specifically challenge his statistical methods, but if anyone finds the mathematics difficult, I'll privately tutor them.
3. There are quite a few Russian intellectuals who I can contact, time to see what their opinions of their countryman are.

From only a simple, quick examination of much of the nonsense spouted by Fomenko, it's quite depressing to see this research forum being used for the propagation of mental-illness.

[high_treason]

Thanks its about time someone addresses this Fomenko crap, the guy is either a looney bin aka the Glenn Kealey of history or a JWO operative who is trying to distort people's minds with a bunch of nonesense.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Joe

I applaud you.

As I have stated in my audios, Fomenko should be looked at under a microscope and his work should under go peer review. As stated in my audios Fomenko has pointed out many strange duplicates and anomalies that rear their ugly heads in history. At this point I have not read his conclusions, which will most likely be his opinion, so I can not comment on that as of yet.

I don't know if I am a "Fomenko Follower" those are your words not mine. I am certainly reading Fomenko's work and then investigating on my own, his claims and evidence. If that is the definition of a Fomenko Follower, then I might be counted as one.

I have provided you with a russian to english translation of some of his critics and Fomenko seems to provide these in apendix 4, but I am not sure which Chronicle. If it is chron 7 we have a awhile to wait.

I would suggest that instead of current events that this should be moved to another section. Maybe Ognir or an Admin can create something like "shill or not a shill" or propaganda investigation section or some other clever section.

I know it upsets many people when their beliefs are challenge, but the moment you think you know it all is the moment you stop learning.

once again Thank you for your interest in replicating the process and investigating

I look forward to your results.

Please let me know if I can assist you in any way.

[blueocean]

All I am interested in is Reasonable doubt and the scientific proces of inquiry.


calling people idiots for that is silly  :lol:



If Fomenko is able in the to create reasonable doubt than so be it , if not than so be it.    

Casting reasonable doubnt on 'official' hystory is always good per my view.  ( we wouldn't be in this forum if we hadn't this attitude).


So Kudos to you Joe if you can disprove Fomenko's claims, give it a go broh.

Maybe Joh n Savage or others can prove fomenko right then kudos to that too.


It is natural I think for people to only see the mistakes in other people's beliefs/convictions.

[Yammitor]

I will transfer my reply from the thread "Do not confuse a Jew with a Judahite or an Israelite." to this thread as the topic is overlapping on discussing Fomenko.
http://theinfounderground.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5183

I have not looked at Fomenko in the detail you have. I have read summaries of his work from different sources both for and against.

I cannot argue against Fomenko using his material as evidence directly against him as I have not looked at his work myself in detail.

I have not had time to listen to all your shows yet due to work etc. but they are on my mp3 player and i am working down through them in order.
When i have more direct knowledge of his work I'll be in a better position.

I was just offering my opinion I think his claims are outlandish especially as he has not got a historical background.

I have a good knowledge of history and computer modeling and statistics I doubt very much that it would have been possible to pull off what be claims.
Based on my knowledge of subjects of language, art, architecture, ethnic differences of culture, accents, fashion, medicine, progression of technology in all areas, science, religion, folk stories, genetics..... throughout history.
I think it would be much easier in my opinion to design a computer model and fit the data to give the desired results.



I can tell you from Comparet's work that this family tree is not correct. It is some what correct up until Babylon 536 BC but to claim that the Jews of today are Judah is false.

The House of Judah is not represented today in the modern Jewry thats edoms among others like the more recent addition of the Kazars and older bloodlines mentioned in the bible as Canaanite.  (Edom means red some what like the Red Shield, Rothchilds.) The Edomites can claim they are decendants of Abraham through Esau. Esau sold his birth right to his brother Jacob. Esau married Canaanite women and moved to live in the lands around Mount Seir and the Dead Sea which was Edomite territory. All Esau's descendants were Edomites and that is how the Jews of today claim can also to be from Abraham despite the fact that Esau was dispossessed and cursed by God

The Jewish people also claim their descent from the two-tribed "House of Judah" (Jew-dah), hence their name Jew. Jews are decended from Israelites but not all Israelites are Jews. Just as, for example, all Scottish people are British but not all of the British people are Scottish.

The House of Judah cannot be be Jewish. To be jewish means that you have Canaanite blood and mixed with Canaanite peoples e.g. Edomites. I can't remember all the names of the different Canaanite tribes off the top of my head but they are listed in the bible can i can do so.

The above family tree is wrong as it misleads people to think that the Jews are the House of Judah. It dosen't cover the union of the house of Judah correctly nor does it tell how the Title of the House of Judah was transfered to Ireland.

The House of Judah was split when twins were born as described in  Genesis Chapter 38

27And it came to pass in the time of her travail, that, behold, twins were in her womb.

 28And it came to pass, when she travailed, that the one put out his hand: and the midwife took and bound upon his hand a scarlet thread, saying, This came out first.

 29And it came to pass, as he drew back his hand, that, behold, his brother came out: and she said, How hast thou broken forth? this breach be upon thee: therefore his name was called Pharez.

 30And afterward came out his brother, that had the scarlet thread upon his hand: and his name was called Zarah.

Zarah of the 'Red Hand', having lost the Birthright, went into exile and migrated to Heberia (now known as Iberia or Spain). There they built the city of Zaragoza. Zaragoza (originally Zarah-gassa) means the "Stronghold of Zarah" and the city is still called Zaragoza today, even though the Israelites' traditional enemy, Babylon and Rome, invaded Heberia and drove the Zarahites out to the northern coastlands of Spain. From there many of them fled across the water to Ireland (Hebernia – the Hebrews' new-land and the Hebrides - Hebrew's Isles). Some of their descendants migrated from Ireland to Scotland

The title to the house of Judah was transfered to Ireland when the Teia Tephi became the queen of Ireland on the 21st of June in 583 B.C. by marrying Eochaidh High King of Ireland.  Teia Tephi was the daughter of King Zedekiah of Jerusalem, from the line of king David who slew Goliath.

Eochaidh was from the Zarah (of the 'Red Hand') branch and Teia Tephi was from the line of David of the Pharez branch of Judah, their marriage-union sealed the "breach" caused centuries earlier when Judah's twin sons had been born. This marriage-union, that took place at "Rath na ri" (the Fort of the kings) at Tara, in Royal Meath, is symbolised on the Ulster flag, where the 'Red Hand' of Zarah is mounted upon the 'Star of David' under the single Royal Crown, symbolizing the union of the two royal lines, that sprang from Judah.

Flag Of Ulster - One of the 4 Provences of Ireland


Thus the Jews cannot claim the Title of the House of Judah as the title of the house of Judah was passed to Ireland. They can claim to be decended from Judah but those who do so in this way are are simply Jews who have stolen the name Jew also. Same as they stole the name Israel so that they can lay claim to Palestine. Note how they call themselves Israelis not Israelites.

Stephen S. Wise, chief rabbi of these United States prior to his death. He said, "The return from Babylon, the adoption of the Babylonian Talmud, originally called the Tradition of the Elders, marked the end of Hebrewism and the beginning of Judaism.

When the Assyrians conquered and deported the people of the ten northern tribes of israel, the Bible records that the Assyrians brought other people in from the Assyrian empire and settled them in Samaria, in place of the Israelites they had deported. Samaria is only the southern half of the territory occupied by these ten northern tribes. The northern half was Galilee and this was left vacant. When the kingdom of Judah was later deported to Babylon, for their seventy years captivity, their land was left with very little population. While they were gone, the Edomites who were descendants of Esau, mixed with Canaanite people, were forced out of their own land by pressure of invading Arab tribes, and moved westward into the vacant lands of Judah, occupying the southern half of the former kingdom of Judah.

Therefore, when a portion of the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin returned from the Babylonian captivity, they were too few in numbers to drive out the warlike Edomites and had to try to squeeze into the very little territory they had left. It was too small for them, so what was left of the tribe of Judah took the little territory remaining around Jerusalem and Benjamin was pushed to the north.

This is how the edomites became Jews and stole contol of the provence of Judea and in later years installed their king Herod.
By the way i do not support the British Royals in anyway, they have broken the Laws of God, inter mixed with the Edomites and will feel his wrath :twisted:

In Isaiah 34:5

        5  For my sword has drunk its fill in the heavens; behold, it descends for judgment upon Edom, upon the people I have doomed......

      8  For the LORD has a day of vengeance, a year of recompense for the cause of Zion.

    9  And the streams of Edom shall be turned into pitch, and her soil into brimstone; her land shall become burning pitch.

    10  Night and day it shall not be quenched; its smoke shall go up for ever. From generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.


(Malachi 1:2-3) "Was not Esau Jacob's brother?" the Lord says, "Yet I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals" .

Back to Fomenko again

When so many holes are poked in history like Fomenko does it only serves to erode the foundations upon which society has been built upon.
If Fomenko's work becomes accepted by society then society would be forced to revaluate all their beliefs. What debased and corrupt system will be derived from the current cesspool of moral corruption that we live in. I think the new morals of society would be :
""Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." This statement is taken from the first chapter verse 40 of the The Book of the Law, also know as Liber al vel Legis, which is claimed to have been communicated to Aleister Crowley by a discarnate entity known as Aiwass on April 8, 9 and 10 in 1904, in Cairo, Egypt."

You are doing the Jews work for them i am afraid.

what a sad statement. So you are saying that people need their illusions in order to live good lives. I am sure you are correct that most people need their illusion to function. As far as me doing the Jews work, I am just asking questions and expanding my mind. Reading everything believing nothing unless I can prove it my self. I do offer opinions based on research and comparisons. I would love to discuss and investigate with you these. I personally feel that people need to reevaluate all their beliefs, and see that it's all been a lie.

I'll try re phrase what I mean in a new light.
I can not speak for the average non thinking sheople out there and what illusions are buzzing around their empty heads, but I'll definately agree some people are better off believing in illusions than trying to grapple with ideas they haven't got the mental capacity to understand.
I have hard enough time cutting through the dis information already. Fomenko is adding a who layer of complexity to all issues as time is such an important element.
What chance has the poor average sheople got.
If we try to re order society now while we cannot control it we are opeing a pandoras box that i'd prefer to keep closed.

By accepting Fomenko now a new generation of authors will be spwaned as a countless number of his fellows will design more computer models apply them to eras and areas of the world not yet covered by Fomenko.

The Theft of the Millenium.
Running Review on a Review on "The Lost Millenium. History Timetables Under Siege" by Florin Diacu

http://hbar.phys.msu.ru/gorm/fomenko/DiacuRef.htm

I am a physicist but my serious hobby is world history, especially physical dating methods, history of science and historical astronomy. This activity resulted in several papers and reports on historical conferences, the translation and editing of a Russian edition of the book on physical dating methods by G.Wagner [1] and a new commented edition of the classical book by D.Svyatsky "Astronomical events in Russian chronicles" (1910) [2] with my catalogue of astronomical records and supplementary tables. I also have been supporting for seven years a web page and discussion board on these topics which evolved from my investigation of outrageous theory on world history of Russian mathematician Anatoly Fomenko http://www.newchrono.net ('net' means 'no' in Russian). In 2007 I have read with great interest a Russian edition of the book by Florin Diacu and Philip Holmes "Celestial Encounters: The Origin of Chaos and Stability" – a nice introduction to the theory of dynamic chaos. You can imagine my surprise when I discovered that Florin Diacu issued another book – "The Lost Millenium. History Timetables Under Siege" presenting a review of this theory for western readers. I ordered this book and examined it with scrutiny. I was glad that the author partially used materials from my webpage, namely my collection of records of ancient eclipses and a translation of Dionisius into English by Michael Deckers, which I used as a support for my Russian translation. However I was rather disappointed that Diacu could not read Russian and that is why the contents of my "Fomencology" page collecting the most part of what has been written and published during the last 25 years by Fomenko critics evaded his attention. This sad circumstance lead to inevitable reinventing the bicycle and to multiple factual errors in the book imposed by uncritical following to the accretions of A.Fomenko and his coauthor G.Nosovsky. Happily a very small portion of these papers have been translated in English – papers by eminent mathematician S.Novikov and eminent linguist A.A.Zaliznyak and reached the authors attention.

Modern Chronologies of the Bible
http://nabataea.net/modernchron.html

Diacu describes this system in his book "The Missing Millennium." The combined cycles method assigns to every date in history its corresponding Julian count, having as its base the Julian epoch (set by Scaliger to 4713 BC, mainly for mathematical reasons and countrin as 1) The year 753, for example, has the Julian count 3961, because 4713 - 753 +1 = 3961. Every Julian count up to 7980 has a unique triplet of numbers, resulting from the remainder obtainied when dividing the Julian county by 19, 28, and 15.

The method works as follows: if certain documents associate a historical event to some year in the lunar cycle, another in the solar cycle, and yet another in the indiction cycle, then the year can be uniquely determined. The method has its limits: if one of the three elements is missing, the date cannot be ascertained.

.....

All of these claims were made from several sets of research. The first was on the basis of using computers to simulate eclipses, both partial and total. Fomenko's mathematical comparisons of popes and kings were made using mathematical formulas. Interestingly enough, no one challenges the mathematics, rather historians challenge whether his conclusions reflect chronological reality. Eventually Fomenko went on to use linguistics and etymology to prove his point. It was here that Fomenko made several exaggerations, if not errors, and a good number of scientific papers quickly followed to demonstrate the errors of Fomenkos claims.

Despite the reactions to Fomenko's mathematical equations and etymological claims, his research on eclipses has never really been challenged. This is because computer simulations can clearly be used to demonstrate where and when important solar eclipses happened in ancient history. If an ancient record, such as, described by Thucydides where three eclipses happened during the Peloponnesian War cannot be ascribed to that date, then we know that the date is wrong. Or, if the date isn't wrong, then the position of solar bodies is wrong, and this can only be ascribed to one thing: catastrophe on a scale that moved the earth's poles or slowed or sped the rotation of the earth.

Catastrophes
Fomenko spent considerable time attacking the chronology of history as presented in the Bible. He felt that traditionally accepted chronology could not be right. Of his three arguments (eclipses, mathematical comparisons of similar chronologies, and etymology), the problem of eclipses has not been solved. Florin Diacu, in his book The Lost Millennium, History's Timetables under Siege suggests that there are three possibilities that must be considered: 1) there are unknown forces at work; 2) the laws of physics have changed since the past millennium; or 3) traditional chronology is wrong. These are the most obvious answers. Scientists are usually quick to dismiss the first two suggestions, and so the obvious answer is that chronology as we know it is completely wrong. The authors of this book would like to suggest that more research be done on the first suggestion, unknown forces. In fact, we believe that a study of history demonstrates that unusual forces influenced earth's orbit at various times in history.

Interestingly enough, Diacu starts out his book with an account of Immanuel Velikovsky who suggested that a comet or other celestial object came in close contact with planet earth creating catastrophes at various times in history. Could catastrophe of this level be the reason why Thucydides' three eclipse over a short period of time cannot be scientifically calculated?

Diacu even notes that Thucydides statement of the eclipses occurred in a paragraph claiming that the war took place during a period of disasters that had no pervious match in history Never had so many people been displaced, so many cities destroyed, and so much blood shed. There were plagues, drought and famine of unparallel extent. Could these eclipses have been recorded during a time of universal catastrophe? Our own research places a major earth wide catastrophe around 700 BC when most civilizations of the world recorded catastrophic events, astronomical anomalies, and a change in the speed of the earth's rotation around the sun (number of days in the year). Even the Romans suggested that the earth went through a time of catastrophe approximately every 100 years.

Now consider something else that Diacu notes on page 102. On Boxing Day in 2004 an Asian earthquake and resulting tsunami caused a shift of mass towards the Earth's center, causing the planet to move one-millionth of a second faster and tilted its axis at the poles by 2.5 centimeters. (Richard Gross, NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory). Diacu quickly discredits earthquakes, but this paragraph demonstrates that catastrophe, whether through earthquakes or close encounters with other celestial objects can radically change the position of the stars in the earth's sky. This would also have an effect on eclipses.

Is this true

The New Charlatan Historians
http://www.cfr.org/content/publications/attachments/CORR_winter_1999-00.pdf

 In one particularly free etymology, Fomenko derives the word "Mongol" from the Greek word megalos, big.

Maybe he would have modeled other eras if it had not been for
http://www.answers.com/topic/indus-script
http://www.answers.com/topic/palermo-stone
http://www.answers.com/topic/mesha-stele
http://www.answers.com/topic/cuneiform-writing
http://www.answers.com/topic/rosetta-stone

Or maybe this proves your point also. That he is correct as he hasn't covered those areas.

Here are some links comments and reviews of poeple who have read his work. I have read the links but as i have not studied Fomenko directly I can't comment, the links might be more useful to other people who have a greather knowledge of the topic.

THE CRITICISM OF "THE NEW CHRONOLOGY" BY G.V. NOSOVSKI AND A.T. FOMENKO IN THE LIGHT OF THE TMUTARAKAN' HISTORY
http://public.kubsu.ru/~usr02898/tmtrkn.htm#CRNF

Allegories Gone Wild - The Mathematical Madman
http://biblioblography.blogspot.com/2007/03/allegories-gone-wild-mathematical.html

What's behind the attempt to impose a "New Chronology" on history?
by Jason Colavito
Editor's note: An earlier version of this article ran in Lost Civilizations Uncovered in 2001. This version first appeared in Skeptic magazine v. 11, i. 2 (Summer 2004): 66-70.
http://jcolavito.tripod.com/lostcivilizations/id13.html

Finally paper on Fomenko. A thesis for a Doctor of Philosophy, University of Wollongong, School of History and Politics by Konstantin Sheiko

 (I have not read it all yet. Its also locked so people cannot cut and paste the contents, i am sure there is a way round that.)
"Lomonosov's bastards: Anatolii Fomenko, pseudo-history and Russia's search for a post-communist identity"
http://www.library.uow.edu.au/adt-NWU/uploads/approved/adt-NWU20050120.113353/public/02Whole.pdf

[Anonymous]

@ Yammitor

Thanks for the info will take me some time to go through it.

The family tree came from a British Israel website, so maybe they need to be updated

cheers

[mgt23]

interesting stuff, keep it rolling...like to keep an open mind. whats your take on akenaten's legacy after he died. I've believe they jumped ship/country when the priests at Thebes retook control on his death.

[high_treason]

Actually regarding Jews, Judah and Israelites.....The Jews of today are converts from different centuries and different tribes, you have the Arab Jews as some call them are from Himyarite Kingdom which was a Pagan kingdom converted to Judiasm in Yemen, then you have Sephardi Jews from North Africa (they only moved to Spain with the Arabs and Berbers) they were a Berber tribe that converted to Judiasm and had a Priestess called Kahina Al Dahiya and finally Ashkenazi are converts from the Russian Steppes when their Kagan converted to Judiasm and from the Khazars came the Seljuk Turks (forerunners of the Ottoman Empire) who branched off and converted to Islam before creating an empire of their own.

So none of them could be called Judah or Israelites as all the ancient tribes of Israel were either assimilated or exterminated, what we have now are people following the Jewish religion and not a Jewish race.