TFC 28th June 09 guests Rafeeg & Ognir- ZioMoon Landing Hoax

[MikeWB]

Mike, I think that you really should post what you find to be gross mis-conduct in "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon."  The footage showing the astronauts faking going half-way to the moon is real and I don't need to see anything else, except perhaps the facts regarding the Van Allen Radiation Belts--astronauts in shuttles today can not get near the Belts without the radiation being devastatingly powerful to them.

Don't have much free time right now and next two weeks so I don't want to go into this. It took me a while to find some time to watch that movie in peace and it's one of the most deceptive things I've ever seen, like I said. The director of that movie is a master of twisting things and fucking with your logic. But I will find the time in next few months and go step by step and explain the deception that they're using since they're sophisticated.

Van Allen belts radiation... that's a silly argument that hoax proponents use. Did you know that astronauts were in the belt for a veryt short time and that even the scientist who discovered it says that it's nothing that would prevent travel through them?

Even Dr. James Van Allen, the discoverer of the Van Allen radiation belts, rebutted the claims that radiation levels were too dangerous for the Apollo missions. Dosimeters carried by the crews showed they received about the same cumulative dosage as a chest X-ray or about 1 milligray. Plait cited an average dose of less than 1 rem, which is equivalent to the ambient radiation received by living at sea level for three years. The spacecraft passed through the intense inner belt in a matter of minutes and the low-energy outer belt in about an hour and half. The astronauts were mostly shielded from the radiation by the spacecraft. The total radiation received on the trip was about the same as allowed for workers in the nuclear energy field for a year.

What's clear is that "Moon Hoax" is a hoax in itself.

Here's a question for hoaxers (and i'm sad to see this thread on a serious forum like TiU is trying to become).

1) Moon landing video transmission was received by Australian astronomers. They pointed their radio antennas to spot on the Moon  and recorded transmissions from there. How was this pulled off?

2) Russians too picked up transmissions from the Moon and have tracked the Apollo 11 as it traveled to the Moon. Why didn't they expose this "hoax"?

3) Hundreds of thousands of people worked on the project. Why waste all this money on a fictitious project? If they wanted to steal the money, there are better ways of pulling that off. Don;t they own the Fed and can steal as much as they want? It makes no sense. If you want to see how to steal properly, go look into Goldman Sachs and their latest round of profits.

I'm amazed that so many intelligent people are fooled by the moon hoaxers. Clearly, Moon Hoax was created to smear conspiracy theorists and make them look stupid in the eyes of the public. It was concocted by the same CIA manipulators who introduced little green men and UFO lore into our culture.

It's in the same category as reptilian and UFO bullshit. By making a radio show about it, Og and DBS have now exposed themselves to ridicule for nothing. It's silly that they discussed this. Now whoever starts looking up their Zio info will be greeted with: "these are the guys who also believe that we never landed on the Moon" and will dismiss their other info. It's what people will use when someone mentions McKinney interview. Remember how everyone on this forum is harping on Rense for covering Zionism and then wrapping it into UFO realm? Or David Icke who releases a ton of great info but then shits all over it by talking about morphing reptilians and people with barbed tails and his out of body experiences in which he sees higher beings? How is this any different?

And even if it is a hoax, how does talking about it and siding with hoaxers help our cause when public overwhelmingly believes that we did go to the Moon? It doesn't and it only retards it.

[GordZilla]

2) Russians too picked up transmissions from the Moon and have tracked the Apollo 11 as it traveled to the Moon. Why didn't they expose this "hoax"?

Apart from the above quote I agree with Mike wholeheartedly, which as Mike knows is rare    , We should focus on what matters, this 'Moon hoax or not' crap only makes us look worse in the public's eye. We don't need help in that department, I would think.

As for the above quote, this is 'Red' Russia we'd be talking about, and for them to be in cahoots with the Americans would not be overly surprising to find out. A small point, but should be noted.

Other than that, yeah spot on.

[mgt23]

Apart from the above quote I agree with Mike wholeheartedly, which as Mike knows is rare , We should focus on what matters, this 'Moon hoax or not' crap only makes us look worse in the public's eye. We don't need help in that department, I would think.

wtf? who cares about what the public think. what i want is the truth, the conversion of the goyiem comes later and the breaking of this propaganda has propaganda value(not to mention curiosity, isn't this meant to be the information underground or what?).

1) Moon landing video transmission was received by Australian astronomers. They pointed their radio antennas to spot on the Moon and recorded transmissions from there. How was this pulled off?

2) Russians too picked up transmissions from the Moon and have tracked the Apollo 11 as it traveled to the Moon. Why didn't they expose this "hoax"?

irrelevant, the zionists control all countries and could have easily infiltrated the signal.

3) Hundreds of thousands of people worked on the project. Why waste all this money on a fictitious project? If they wanted to steal the money, there are better ways of pulling that off. Don;t they own the Fed and can steal as much as they want? It makes no sense. If you want to see how to steal properly, go look into Goldman Sachs and their latest round of profits.

it wasn't about the stealing mainly but giving the usa public consciousness false hope that they were doing something worthwhile whilst they were being robbed blind by the military/industrial complex fighting the reds. it was a distraction in a time of social unrest.

stop trying to convince people either way mike and let people look into it if they want to and come to their own conclusions. This is a research forum not a cult. Being open-minded and constructive is whats important and i would like to see all the evidence first for both sides of the argument. Maybe on a separate thread tho.

[veritasvincit]

it is obvious the moon landing was a hoax - I still think people need to know about the hoax because if you get people who understand particular areas of study such as science or photography to look at the evidence then, this is one way to bring people over to the truth.

this is how the deceivers deal - they create unrealities like the moon landing or scare people about UFO's - they've tested us all along to see what the masses and sheep will believe - and how far we will go to follow their lies - they now have the masses believing that our environment and eco system will be gone soon because there are too many people using up fossil fuel etc - they are so cunning at using the hegelian dialectic - pretty soon they'll get us to believe that the earth is over-populated and that they should be killing half of us off - actually, there is enough land mass in Canada alone for every single human being on this earth to reside - and aren't they already using the swine flu scare tactics to get countries who have sold their souls to enforce mandatory vaccines that will poison people anyway?

911 was a big eye opener for me but what really brought me to the other side and the truth was a friend and my understanding, although limited, of the investment and banking system - and even though I've questioned many things since I was a kid that didn't seem logical or the natural order of things - it did take a major event such as 911 to wake me up and seek more.

once you start to question one major event then you start to question everything else and if getting people to look at the moon landing as a hoax then, this is just one more piece of arsenal to show people the light and the truth

[MikeWB]

2) Russians too picked up transmissions from the Moon and have tracked the Apollo 11 as it traveled to the Moon. Why didn't they expose this "hoax"?

Apart from the above quote I agree with Mike wholeheartedly, which as Mike knows is rare    , We should focus on what matters, this 'Moon hoax or not' crap only makes us look worse in the public's eye. We don't need help in that department, I would think.

As for the above quote, this is 'Red' Russia we'd be talking about, and for them to be in cahoots with the Americans would not be overly surprising to find out. A small point, but should be noted.

Other than that, yeah spot on.

Red or not you have to admit that US and Russians were at the brink of war more than once. You also have to note that cold war was very strong during this time period and that Russians and US were fighting hot wars through their proxy states around the world. Russians had the first man in space, Yuri Gagarin, and first satellite as well, Sputnik. They missed the chance to go to the Moon first in an accident in which they lost a cosmonaut. So even if this was Red Russia, they were no friends of the US and were looking for any chance to expose 'capitalist pigs' and embarrass us. If we didn't go to the Moon, they would have exposed the lie to the World and gained a lot of points for doing so.

But the fact is that Russians had spies all over NASA (just look at their Buran project which was near-exact copy of Shuttle) and they would have had access to the "hoax" material. They also tracked the progress of Apollo crafts and listened in to transmissions and got the feed of video from the Moon through spying radio stations that they had. My point is that had this been a hoax, Russians would have been all over it and would have exposed it and would have given Americans a huge black eye and would have embarrassed US and all of its allies and would have sent their own team there to show the world how it's done.

I still stand by the fact that this Moon hoax topic is a giant tar baby and that DBS and Og should have known better and should have thought about the implications of them discussing it. They gained nothing by somehow saying that Zios were behind it. They might have gained few conspiracy listeners who believe in the hoax but they lost the credibility since the next time someone tries to debunk quality ZIo info, they'll use their moon hoax views  to discredit them and present them as 'conspiracy nutters'. Heck, even Alex Jones doesn't go into UFO/Moon Hoax/Reptilians realm.

[Yo Mama]

Alex Jones says that the moon landings were hoaxes, but he says that "Nazi Eugenicists" and the Queen of England did it, not the Jews.   :lol:

[LordLindsey]

Look, Mike is right; we have much bigger issues at stake, and if we are going to discuss this it needs to be in a separate area.  I have said what I want to say about this and it is not my job to convince anyone else that this was a hoax; that is for each person to decide based upon the evidence that is easily found--like the NASA video showing the astronauts in Earth's orbit faking going half-way to the moon--a fact.

If any more discussion is wanted to be carried-on by the rest of you, please create a new Topic and do it in the "Off Topics" section.  After thinking about this show, I think that Daryl and Rafeeq probably should not have done it, but truth is the most important thing and I can't fault them for bringing-up an issue that had not been broached on Smith's shows previously.

LINDSEY

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

In a weird way, just hear me out, this kind of mostly discredited Moon-Hoax stuff could actually attract some of the "Rense" types to TIU stuff.

Sometimes, we got to attract them with "Honey" (even if it is B.S. discredited Honey) if the "Rense types" are going to come around.  To be honest, my interest in "alternative" stuff brought me around to the Jewish Question over the course of several years and of course the Iraq-war just blew it wide open.

A couple of choice "key words" could bring people in.  I don't know if this was prossibly a stunt to root out the Eric Hufschmidt's from TIU? Don't know...  

[Father Brown]

I saw an item on Druge today that NASA admits they erased the original tapes of the Moon Landing. I am starting to think that it was indeed a hoax. Just think about it from this perspective. TV was still relatively new. Don't you think it possible that those in power would just love to see if they could pull something like this off just for the pure sport of it all? I can imagine a meeting where someone might say, "if we can convince the world that we landed a man on the moon, we can convince them of anything".

NASA said they have somehow recovered a live feed and have cleaned it up digitally just in time for the 40th anniversary. And what story knocked the admitted loss of the NASA tapes off of Drudge? Why Uncle Walter died, the man who cheerleaded us through the Apollo program, undermined the Viet Nam conflict, and cried when JFK was gunned-down. Strange indeed. I know he was an old man, 92, but just throwing that out there to generate thought. Found it rather coincidental.

Here's another thing to contemplate. Teddy Kennedy had has driving problem (Chappiquidick) the same weekend that Apollo 11 landed? Dont' you think that odd that no one ever links these two stories? His brother, after all, started the ball rolling for a moon-shot just 8 years earlier. My brother saw G. Gordon Liddy many years ago at a college speaking engagement. The G-Man said that either he, or people he knew, put some kind of LSD on the steering wheel of Teddy's car. And that they were trying to kill him. Whether there is any truth to Liddy's claim or not, I am still somewhat troubled by that coincidence. It almost seems like the same people being bold and trying to tie a nice ribbon around their crimes from the '60s.

[Free Truth]

Og:

I had no idea of the topic prior to the recording

Interesting...

If we didn't go to the Moon, they (Russia) would have exposed the lie to the World and gained a lot of points for doing so.

Not so fast. Methinks the soap opera was well underway.
The US had Bolsheviks, and was turning red.

...only makes us look worse in the public's eye. We don't need help in that department, I would think.

wtf? who cares about what the public think?

That is paramount... It's not exactly what the public think that Mike mentioned, as you said Mgt (though I hear you, they're fools), but how we appear in "the public's eye" is a huge part of this game.

[mgt23]

That is paramount... It's not exactly what the public think that Mike mentioned, as you said Mgt (though I hear you, they're fools), but how we appear in "the public's eye" is a huge part of this game.

hi freetruth;
                   yeh i'm aware that it's a big part of the propaganda war- however....
1)First and foremost i would actually like to get to the bottom of the whole moon hoax, with concrete proof(a bit like israel did 911 all the proof in the world thread)
2)To do this we must have some open minded critical thinkers, with knowledge on the subject.
3)I hate being dishonest or clandestine in my opinions. I speak my mind albeit a bit bluntly as a yorkshireman.
4)Its quite topical at the moment and i always like to listen to both sides of the argument in forming an opinion.
5)I don't like to see debate stifled for political expediency(just seems dishonest)
6)TiU for me is about getting to the bottom of things, although i accept its all about beating zionism.
7)This does have relevance to zionism and the bigger picture. In my next show i will be looking at von neumon probes for i believe this is the future vision for zionism after the goy are killed. In this context, LAV is right when he says they are pushing the whole "man is space" mythology.

p.s all i think about day and night is zionism zionism zionism and how to beat it. Does my nut in, but i can't help it-I hate losing

[rmstock]

As the CANCUN, MEXICO Climate Change summit has been concluded [1], I wrote up a small webpage
summarizing a possible scenario of what could happen when the atmosphere gets diluted from CO2.

THE CAP AND TRADE BILL
111TH CONGRESS 1ST SESSION H. R. 2454 ,
The American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009
http://crashrecovery.org/ironmountain/capandtrade.html

[1] 2010 United Nations Climate Change Conference

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

Anyone for more moon landing talk?

[Whaler]

Yeah I guess Timbo. Keep it clean cuz it's not really that big of a deal for me. I have done some research on this after seeing "hoaxers" get repeatedly schooled in debates. I am pretty certain that there is not one single valid argument for a hoax. I have seen all of them get completely destroyed....So if you wanna post one, I will try to come back with a debunking point. Give me an hour or two though....and I will extend you the same courtesy of a two hour buffer between posts. It is important that we get this sorted out cuz right now it's a distraction of monumental proportions.

You first, Post the first piece of evidence for your case.

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

Yeah I guess Timbo. Keep it clean cuz it's not really that big of a deal for me. I have done some research on this after seeing "hoaxers" get repeatedly schooled in debates. I am pretty certain that there is not one single valid argument for a hoax. I have seen all of them get completely destroyed....So if you wanna post one, I will try to come back with a debunking point. Give me an hour or two though....and I will extend you the same courtesy of a two hour buffer between posts. It is important that we get this sorted out cuz right now it's a distraction of monumental proportions.

You first, Post the first piece of evidence for your case.

Have you seen A Funny Thing Happened On the Way to the Moon?

The photo and video footage tell the tale. Nothing but inconsistency and blowing flags. It was amateur hour at Hollywood studios in Cape Canaveral.

But the clincher is the Van Allen radiation belts.

The moon landing hoax was probably the last conspiracy I came across. I only discovered it in the last few years. But when I finally did examine it, I could not help but see the Jew MO all around it.

[Reboot]

This documentary, which is only a few days old, explains how Kubrick filmed the landing:

http://store.sacredmysteriesmarketplace ... 1-dvd.html

Interview with the filmmaker in March 2011:

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/20 ... 110306.php

[Christopher Marlowe]

I listened to an interview with the producer, Jay Weidner, in a four-part interview from Red Ice Radio that was posted on youtube. It was a fascinating interview about Kubrick, the fake moon landing, the cult of Saturn, the pedophilia network, and how Kubrick had hidden the secret stories about these things in his movies. And then at part 4, Weidner started talking about the Muslims and how they are so dangerous and are ruining Europe and the US.

Weidner is obviously a Jew: Weidner is a Jewish name; JW looks Jewish; and his wife, Sharron Rose, has this posted on her website:

We begin our journey with Sharron, a young Jewish wife and mother, a product of the feminist movement - a career in dance behind her - journeying to India to study sacred dance with the foremost Kathak dancer Sitara Devi. Journeying with her was her three year old son, Ari.

Once again we find a guy who seems to get underneath it all, and find the satanic cult that has all the money and power, but fails to notice the obvious fact that most of the media, banks, and governments are controlled by people who just happen to be Jewish.  And not only that, but Weidner has the temerity to claim that Muslims are ruining Europe and his own country, the US.  

As of 2010, there are 2 Muslim members of Congress: Reps. Andre Carson and Keith Ellison. Muslims make up somewhere between 1% and 2.6% of the US population. Compare this to Jews, who make up 2% of the population, and claim 39 members of the 112th US Congress: 12 senators and 27 representatives.  If anyone could be said to be ruining a country, wouldn't it be the people who are actually controlling that country? And can a group be in control if that group makes up less than 1% of the Congress, and owns none of the banks or the media?

It boggles my mind how an interview can listen to a Jew talk about all these hidden conspiracies without ever once talking about the Protocols that are being played out in front of our eyes.  Why doesn't the interviewer call Weidner on his bullsh*t?  

I have to commend MSMD for starting a new habit of calling radio people and mentioning the chosen ones. MSMD called up a guy on internet radio who had a good show going on, exposing all of the vaccines/Bill Gates, etc... MSMD started talking about the Jews and the protocols....and the guy agreed with MSMD!  I was shocked.  But now I know that this guy isn't full of crap.  

If you can see all the strings pointing to the moon hoax, JFK, and 9/11, but you can't see the hand of the Jews right in front of your eyes, either you are a liar, or something is wrong with your brain.

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

If someone says Muslims are ruining Europe in the same sense that mass Mexican immigration to the US is ruining America, I have no problem with it. What was the context? Sharia Law bullshit?

[Anonymous]

So.... Is the Moon Landing a hoax or not?

[Christopher Marlowe]

If someone says Muslims are ruining Europe in the same sense that mass Mexican immigration to the US is ruining America, I have no problem with it. What was the context? Sharia Law bullshit?

He's not talking about mass immigration. He' "the Muslim Brotherhood is one of the most radical organizations possible" and [quoting John Lash(?)] "Islam is the 3rd variation of this disease and it will be the worst".  He says Muslims are "fanatics" and "scary" and "they follow a vicious, war-mongering, blood-thirsty god." He refers to the 3 Abrahamic religions as "Jehovian Cults" that are ruled by the Saturnalian Cult.  

Basically the same sh*t that you hear on the Jewish television, radios and movies.  

So.... Is the Moon Landing a hoax or not?

Sorry.  I didn't mean to hijack the thread.  I just wanted to point out the turd in the punchbowl.

Yes. The Moon Landing is a total piece of sh*t hoax.

Even if you disregard all of the photographic evidence, video mistakes, ignoring all of the exposure to radiation in the van allen belts and from solar flares that took place while they were on the moon. If you just look at what we are expected to believe: that the Soviets led the space race all the way, but could never make it to the moon? That we went to the moon 6 times from '69 to '72, but have never since gone back? That, after all those trips to the moon, the European space agency was able to learn more than we could about the surface of the moon by smashing a rocket into the Lunar surface?  That the first guy who ever landed on the moon, who should be the biggest hero ever, is a recluse who never gives interviews?  That the US might start going back to the moon, but will have to re-invent all of the technology, including the rocket engine? That NASA lost the original footage?

These are the same types of stories that follow bullsh*t stories like the holohoax.  Even recently when Japan sent a rocket flyby to the moon, it didn't show any evidence of Apollo stuff that should be there.  Then NASA sent up their own rocket flyby, and it sent back images that purport to show faint pixel images of Apollo craft.  Sh*t.  We had the technology to do that 50 years ago with celluloid film.  With digital imaging, we could have sent up a craft that would have beamed back crystal clear images of the Apollo craft.  Why didn't NASA do that? Because then people would have easily spotted their bullsh*t.  Every little mistake in the images could be compared to the previous faked footage that they already have from the lunar surface.  Instead, they beamed back little pixels of jack-sh*t, and the propagandists are deeply moved and reverent for the hallowed accomplishments of the intrepid space agency.  

And just why did NASA have to test the Apollo 1 capsule with 15 psi of pure oxygen?  There's just no good excuse for that.  The least they could have done is give Gus Grissom some wieners and marsh-mellows.

[Whaler]

I am not going to paste pages of info so I will post some links and vids.

Also, FOX did a friggin primetime special in 2001 endorsing the moon hoax theory. Tell me when FOX does a mega ratings special on 911. There is no magic bullet or building 7 in this conspiracy theory. Evey argument can be debunked. Just google all of the theories and look for the counter argument. That is how I came to my conclusion after being a believer in the moon hoax for years.

Also look into some of the 'pioneers' of the Apollo hoax theory and you can see that they are crackpots and not to be trusted.

ENVIRONMENT
radiation and the van allen belts

"The recent Fox TV show, which I saw, is an ingenious and entertaining assemblage of nonsense. The claim that radiation exposure during the Apollo missions would have been fatal to the astronauts is only one example of such nonsense." -- Dr. James Van Allen

http://www.clavius.org/envrad.html

Moon Base Clavius
http://www.clavius.org/index.html


The Late Great Apollo Moon Missions
http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=158840

Young Aussie genius whipping NASA in Moon Hoax Debate!(not really)
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread566601/pg1




White Noise: Marcus Allen -- Pure Genius
[youtube:2w4d5all]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coMGccvTK6g[/youtube]2w4d5all]

[youtube:2w4d5all]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vawJhSnFcQ0[/youtube]2w4d5all]

[youtube:2w4d5all]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc7FLQR92eg[/youtube]2w4d5all]

[youtube:2w4d5all]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2nqyCtnMzE[/youtube]2w4d5all]

[youtube:2w4d5all]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG_skTncFGE[/youtube]2w4d5all]

[youtube:2w4d5all]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VZIwtrDsRQ[/youtube]2w4d5all]

[youtube:2w4d5all]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAfJkYTkQZk[/youtube]2w4d5all]

the Moon landings were hoaxed, then all this is necessary
[youtube:2w4d5all]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyVJt857e7Q[/youtube]2w4d5all]

[youtube:2w4d5all]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wdiQ8IvO68[/youtube]2w4d5all]

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

Yep, CM, and a likely reason why the US has never gone "back" to the moon is because technology wouldn't allow for such a hoax. There would be too many eyes on the whole operation.

[Whaler]

Yep, CM, and a likely reason why the US has never gone "back" to the moon is because technology wouldn't allow for such a hoax. There would be too many eyes on the whole operation.

Yes, they did have the technology to go to the moon otherwise how do you explain the moon rocks? They would have at least had to send an unmanned vehicle on the moon to collect and take off with 800lbs of rocks....Why not go the extra mile and send 2 men to the moon? The first probe to land on the moon was in 1959 launched by the Soviets. By 1969 the Americans figured out how to send a manned mission. It was highly risky and dangerous but they did it. These weren't just average Joes they were sending to the moon. All of the early astronauts were military fighter pilots turned test pilots... which is considered one of the most dangerous jobs in the world. They needed men that were fearless and used to taking high risks.

Apollo 13 was an example of the actual risk and danger that these ex test pilots were wiling to go through.

[youtube:3f33q07b]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ3Q3kL7jcA[/youtube]3f33q07b]



and...for the moon rocks to be faked, hundreds of expert geologists that have examined the rocks are in on the conspiracy. These aren't just American geologists either. You don't think any of these international scientists would have blown the whistle on NASA if they detected that the rocks were not from the moon?

and a likely reason why the US has never gone "back" to the moon

The American public lost interest in the Apollo missions. The economy was awful during the mid 70's and congress wasn't willing to shell out the billions of dollars... especially after the "moon race" was won. They switched to the more cost efficient Space Shuttle by 1980 because NASA could no longer get unlimited funds for their space ventures.

Why we've never been back to the moon
http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.p ... 02&page=82


[youtube:3f33q07b]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy3i6lUx9Pw[/youtube]3f33q07b]

[youtube:3f33q07b]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJCocXWchPU[/youtube]3f33q07b]

[youtube:3f33q07b]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZca6H2-ao0[/youtube]3f33q07b]

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

Yep, CM, and a likely reason why the US has never gone "back" to the moon is because technology wouldn't allow for such a hoax. There would be too many eyes on the whole operation.

Yes, they did have the technology to go to the moon otherwise how do you explain the moon rocks? They would have at least had to send an unmanned vehicle on the moon to collect and take off with 800lbs of rocks....Why not go the extra mile and send 2 men to the moon? The first probe to land on the moon was in 1959 launched by the Soviets. By 1969 the Americans figured out how to send a manned mission. It was highly risky and dangerous but they did it. These weren't just average Joes they were sending to the moon. All of the early astronauts were military fighter pilots turned test pilots... which is considered one of the most dangerous jobs in the world. They needed men that were fearless and used to taking high risks.

Apollo 13 was an example of the actual risk and danger that these ex test pilots were wiling to go through.

[youtube:2xygesls]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ3Q3kL7jcA[/youtube]2xygesls]



and...for the moon rocks to be faked, hundreds of expert geologists that have examined the rocks are in on the conspiracy. These aren't just American geologists either. You don't think any of these international scientists would have blown the whistle on NASA if they detected that the rocks were not from the moon?

and a likely reason why the US has never gone "back" to the moon

The American public lost interest in the Apollo missions. The economy was awful during the mid 70's and congress wasn't willing to shell out the billions of dollars... especially after the "moon race" was won. They switched to the more cost efficient Space Shuttle by 1980 because NASA could no longer get unlimited funds for their space ventures.

Wait a second here. I didn't mean that technology then didn't allow it. What I meant was that the technology today makes forgery too easy and a moon landing hoax would be harder to pull off--today.

I can't explain away the moon rocks...I know very little about this subject. But I think there is overwhelming evidence that outweighs the moon rocks, cause what else do they have in their defense? Most of the story doesn't add up. I'm no geologist, but couldn't the supposed moon rocks be meteorite debris?

[pas]

Moon rock that was given to the Netherlands turned out to be fake, but was insured for $500.000  

[youtube:3hnvoh8g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYH3AJDGzMw[/youtube]3hnvoh8g]

[Christopher Marlowe]

Yes, they did have the technology to go to the moon otherwise how do you explain the moon rocks? They would have at least had to send an unmanned vehicle on the moon to collect and take off with 800lbs of rocks....Why not go the extra mile and send 2 men to the moon?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/6105902/Moon-rock-given-to-Holland-by-Neil-Armstrong-and-Buzz-Aldrin-is-fake.html
Telegraph
'Moon rock' given to Holland by Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin is fake
A moon rock given to the Dutch prime minister by Apollo 11 astronauts in 1969 has turned out to be a fake.

A piece of moon rock was given during a goodwill tour by the three apollo 11 astronauts.  Photo: Getty Images
12:12AM BST 29 Aug 2009

Curators at Amsterdam's Rijksmuseum, where the rock has attracted tens of thousands of visitors each year, discovered that the "lunar rock", valued at £308,000, was in fact petrified wood.

Xandra van Gelder, who oversaw the investigation, said the museum would continue to keep the stone as a curiosity.

"It's a good story, with some questions that are still unanswered," she said. "We can laugh about it."

The rock was given to Willem Drees, a former Dutch leader, during a global tour by Neil Armstrong, Michael Collins and Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin following their moon mission 50 years ago.

J. William Middendorf, the former American ambassador to the Netherlands, made the presentation to Mr Drees and the rock was then donated to the Rijksmuseum after his death in 1988.

"I do remember that Drees was very interested in the little piece of stone. But that it's not real, I don't know anything about that," Mr Middendorf said.

Nasa gave moon rocks to more than 100 countries following lunar missions in 1969 and the 1970s.

The United States Embassy in The Hague is carrying out an investigation into the affair.

Researchers Amsterdam's Free University were able to tell at a glance that the rock was unlikely to be from the moon, a conclusion that was borne out by tests.

"It's a nondescript, pretty-much-worthless stone," said Frank Beunk, a geologist involved in the investigation.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/space/2009-09-14-moon-rock_N.htm
USA TODAY
Apollo moon rocks lost in space? No, lost on Earth
Posted 9/14/2009 10:10 AM |  Comments 5  |  Recommend 5    E-mail | Save | Print | Subscribe to stories like this
This photo from the Boerhaave Museum in Leiden, Netherlands shows authentic Dutch moon rocks on display. The detection of a fake moon rock in the Netherlands' Rijksmueum should serve as a wake-up call for more than 130 countries who received gifts of lunar rubble from both the Apollo 11 flight in 1969 and Apollo 17 three years later. Experts say the whereabouts are unknown of hundreds of tiny rocks scooped up by U.S. astronauts and given by the Nixon administration to friendly nations.    
Enlarge image Enlarge    By AP
This photo from the Boerhaave Museum in Leiden, Netherlands shows authentic Dutch moon rocks on display. The detection of a fake moon rock in the Netherlands' Rijksmueum should serve as a wake-up call for more than 130 countries who received gifts of lunar rubble from both the Apollo 11 flight in 1969 and Apollo 17 three years later. Experts say the whereabouts are unknown of hundreds of tiny rocks scooped up by U.S. astronauts and given by the Nixon administration to friendly nations.

By Toby Sterling, Associated Press
AMSTERDAM — Attention, countries of the world: Do you know where your moon rocks are?

The discovery of a fake moon rock in the Netherlands' national museum should be a wake-up call for more than 130 countries that received gifts of lunar rubble from both the Apollo 11 flight in 1969 and Apollo 17 three years later.

Nearly 270 rocks scooped up by U.S. astronauts were given to foreign countries by the Nixon administration. But according to experts and research by The Associated Press, the whereabouts of some of the small rocks are unknown.

"There is no doubt in my mind that many moon rocks are lost or stolen and now sitting in private collections," said Joseph Gutheinz, a University of Phoenix instructor and former U.S. government investigator who has made a project of tracking down the lunar treasures.

The Rijksmuseum, more noted as a repository for 17th century Dutch paintings, announced last month it had had its plum-sized "moon" rock tested, only to discover it was a piece of petrified wood, possibly from Arizona. The museum said it inherited the rock from the estate of a former prime minister.

The real Dutch moon rocks are in a natural history museum. But the misidentification raised questions about how well countries have safeguarded their presents from Washington.

Genuine moon rocks, while worthless in mineral terms, can fetch six-figure sums from black-market collectors.

Of 135 rocks from the Apollo 17 mission given away to nations or their leaders, only about 25 have been located by CollectSpace.com, a website for space history buffs that has long attempted to compile a list.

That should not be taken to mean the others are lost — just that the records kept at the time are far from complete.

The AP reviewed declassified correspondence between the State Department and U.S. embassies in 1973 and was able to locate ten additional Apollo 17 rocks — in Switzerland, Belgium, Italy, Barbados, France, Poland, Norway, Costa Rica, Egypt and Nepal.

But the correspondence yielded a meager 30 leads, such as the name of the person who received them or the museum where they were to be initially displayed. Ecuador and Cyprus are among several that said they had never heard of the rocks. Five were handed to African dictators long since dead or deposed.

The outlook for tracking the estimated 134 Apollo 11 rocks is even bleaker. The locations of fewer than a dozen are known.

"NASA turned over the samples to the State Department to distribute," said Jennifer Ross-Nazzal, a NASA historian, in an e-mailed response to questions. "We don't have any records about when and to whom the rocks were given."

"The Office of the Historian does not keep records of what became of the moon rocks, and to my knowledge, there is no one entity that does so," e-mailed Tiffany Hamelin, the State Department historian.

That may seem surprising now, but in the early 1970s, few expected Apollo 17 would be the last mission to the moon. With the passage of time, the rocks' value has skyrocketed.

NASA keeps most of the 382 kilograms (842 lbs) gathered by the Apollo missions locked away, giving small samples to researchers and lending a set of larger rocks for exhibitions.

Apollo 11 gift rocks typically weigh just 0.05 grams, scarcely more than a grain of rice. The Apollo 17 gift rocks weigh about 1.1 grams. Both are encased in plastic globes to protect them and ease viewing.

Each U.S. state got both sets of rocks, and Gutheinz said he and his students have accounted for nearly all the Apollo 17 rocks, though some are in storage and inaccessible. They have only just begun researching Apollo 11 rocks in the states.

In one known legal sale of moon samples, in 1993, moon soil weighing 0.2 grams from an unmanned Russian probe was auctioned at Sotheby's for $442,500.

Gutheinz, the former U.S. investigator, says ignorance about the rocks is an invitation to thieves, and he should know.

In 1998, he was working for the NASA Office of the Inspector General in a sting operation to uncover fake rocks when he was offered the real Apollo 17 rock — the one given to Honduras — for $5 million.

The rock was recovered and eventually returned to Honduras, but not before a fight in Florida District Court that went down in legal annals as "United States vs. One Lucite Ball Containing Lunar Material (One Moon Rock) and One Ten Inch By Fourteen Inch Wooden Plaque."

The case is not unique.

Malta's Apollo 17 rock was stolen in 2004. In Spain, the newspaper El Mundo this summer reported that the Apollo 17 rock given to the country's former dictator, Francisco Franco, is missing.

Franco died in 1975. The paper quoted his grandson as denying the rock had been sold. He said his mother had lost it, but claimed it was the family's personal possession, to sell if it wished.

Gutheinz says Romania's Apollo 17 rock disappeared after the fall and execution of Nicolae Ceausescu in 1989.

According to Gutheinz and other reports, Pakistan's Apollo 17 rock is missing; so is Nicaragua's, since the Sandinistas came to power in 1979. Afghanistan's Apollo 17 rock sat in Kabul's national museum until it was ransacked in 1996.

In fact, the Netherlands is one of the few countries where the location of both the Apollo 11 and Apollo 17 gift rocks is known. Britain, Australia, Canada and New Zealand are others — though none has rocks from both missions on permanent public display and some have been kept in storage for decades.

The Amsterdam case appears to be not fraud but the result of poor vetting by the Rijksmuseum.

Spokeswoman Xandra van Gelder said the museum checked with NASA after receiving the rock in 1992 from the estate of the late Prime Minister Willem Drees. NASA told the museum, without seeing it, that it was "possible" it was a moon rock.

But it weighed a whopping 89 grams (3.1 ounces). In addition, its gold-colored cardboard plaque does not describe it as a moon rock.

The U.S. ambassador gave Drees the rock during an Oct. 9, 1969 visit by the Apollo 11 astronauts to the Netherlands. Drees's grandson, also named Willem, told the AP his grandfather had been out of office for more than a decade and was nearly deaf and blind in 1969, though his mind was still sharp.

"My guess is that he did not hear well what was said," said the grandson. "He may have formed his own idea about what it was."

The family never thought to question the story before donating the rock, to which it had not attached great importance or monetary value.

[Christopher Marlowe]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6620370/ns/technology_and_science-space/
Moon rock found in Antarctica
Meteorite-hunting team makes rare discovery

NASA
This moon rock, designated LAP 03632, was found almost a year ago in Antarctica. A ruler marked in centimeters is included for scale.
The Associated Press
updated 11/30/2004 1:59:08 PM ET 2004-11-30T18:59:08

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. — University of New Mexico researcher Barbara Cohen now knows for certain that the rock she found while trolling the barren Antarctic landscape is special.

She and a team of geologists picked up a chunk of the moon — one of only about 30 ever found on Earth.

"We found it almost a year ago, but the analysis wasn't finished until last month," she said. "When I found out it was from the moon, I was so elated. The team knew it was something interesting in the field, but we couldn't test there. We just had to wait."

Cohen is an assistant research professor at the University of New Mexico's Institute of Meteoritics.

She and a team of eight geologists collected the fist-sized meteorite on a six-week trip during the Antarctic summer, in December and January. They were trolling the La Paz ice sheet on snowmobiles when they found it.

Finding a meteorite is like finding a puzzle piece to the universe because each chunk tells scientists more about how other planets and asteroids developed, Cohen said.

"It's a real primal thrill of discovery, because no one has ever seen that rock before you," she said. "If you know the rock you found is unusual, your mind just goes crazy wondering what it could be. It could be the first meteorite ever found from Venus, or it could be from the moon or Mars."

Cohen's Antarctica trip was part of a National Science Foundation program to collect meteorites. Scientists from all over the world are chosen each year to search Antarctic ice sheets for new meteorites, which fall on the ice and stick out in the snowy surroundings.

Astronauts collected hundreds of pounds of moon rocks during the Apollo missions of the 1960s and 1970s, but lunar meteorites are important because they give scientists samples from other parts of the moon, Cohen said.

The rock, along with about 1,000 other meteorites collected on the same trip, were sent to NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston, which separates the most interesting ones and sends them on to the Smithsonian Institution for analysis.

After analysis, the samples go back to Houston, and the space center sends out notification to scientists who might be interested in the rock. The rocks of interest are broken up and shipped out to the planetary science academic community, Cohen said.

"About 95 percent of the meteorites we find are ordinary chrondites, from asteroids, so of the 1,000 we picked up, about 950 were pretty normal," she said. "This was one of about 50 that were sent on to the Smithsonian — we knew it was something special when we found it."

With the analysis complete, Cohen plans to apply to get a chunk of the rock back from Houston.

From Wikipedia:
During the local summer of 1966–67, [Werner] von Braun participated in a field trip to Antarctica, organized for him and several other members of top NASA management. The goal of the field trip was to determine whether the experience gained by US scientific and technological community during the exploration of Antarctic wastelands would be useful for the manned exploration of space. Von Braun was mainly interested in management of the scientific effort on Antarctic research stations, logistics, habitation and life support, and in using the barren Antarctic terrain like the glacial dry valleys to test the equipment that one day would be used to look for signs of life on Mars and other worlds.

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

CM, good finds.Did US media even cover the fake moon rock story that the telegraph ran?

[Christopher Marlowe]

Here's a guy who seems to have gotten sick of LYING:
[youtube:3arobqiu]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfCzUuA8M4U[/youtube]3arobqiu]
Here are the jubilant astronauts just after their return from their exciting trip to the moon:
[youtube:3arobqiu]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVQnCVlShCw[/youtube]3arobqiu]
I think the reporter smelled bullsh*t and so he asked a difficult question.

[Christopher Marlowe]

When I say wires, I don't mean the antennas.  I mean the long wires, that go up for several yards. I don't mean a momentary flash of light, but a long, thin, straight flash of a wire.
[youtube:449908xr]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23_QdAz2tfY[/youtube]449908xr]
And honestly: Doesn't Astrobrandt annoy the crap out of you?  Doesn't he sound like a pedantic old fart? He's the type that thinks he can win an argument by pronouncing the word correctly.  And he always squeezes in one extra "smart-sounding" word.
And Phil Plait seems like he would rather be looking at magazines with boys wrestling if he didn't have to do this job for the CIA.