The Fasces

[Free Truth]

The fasces was insignia of official authority in ancient Rome. It was carried by the lictors, or attendants, and was characterized by an ax head projecting from a bundle of elm or birch rods and tied together with a red strap; it symbolizes summary power and jurisdiction, and/or "strength through unity"

The traditional Roman fasces consisted of a bundle of white birch rods, tied together with a red leather ribbon into a cylinder, and often including a bronze axe amongst the rods, with the blade on the side, projecting from the bundle.





The fasces is found throughout the U.S.

*   *   *

The United States dime depicts the fasces.




The House of Representatives in Washington D.C.






At the Lincoln Memorial, Lincoln's seat of state bears the fasces on the fronts of its arms. (Fasces also appear on the pylons flanking the main staircase leading into the memorial.)




2 large crossed FASCES compose the insignia of the National Guard, creating a huge "X" (AX) superimposed upon an open winged eagle.




The official seal of the United States Senate has as one component a pair of crossed fasces.




The fasces appears on the state seal of Colorado, USA, beneath the All-seeing eye and above the mountains and mines.




The seal of the United States Courts Administrative Office.




Supreme Court. Apparently a bunch of arrows can represent a fasces. And of course there is the Star of Satan...








What does this say to you?

[Anonymous]

When in time was the metal making skills acquired to make bronze? when was man able to achieve fire hot enough?

copper  melting point 1357.77 K, 1084.62 °C, 1984.32 °F

tin melting point 505.08 K (231.93 °C, 449.47 °F)

Several processes, such as metallurgical iron smelting and welding, require so much heat that they could only be developed after the invention of the bellows. The bellows are used to deliver additional air to the fuel, raising the rate of combustion and therefore the heat output.

i am sure it is very very very very ancient! there is probably proof as well.

so what does that tell you?

and how come they have iron chariots in the bible?

[Wimpy]

When in time was the metal making skills acquired to make bronze? when was man able to achieve fire hot enough?

copper  melting point 1357.77 K, 1084.62 °C, 1984.32 °F

tin melting point 505.08 K (231.93 °C, 449.47 °F)

Several processes, such as metallurgical iron smelting and welding, require so much heat that they could only be developed after the invention of the bellows. The bellows are used to deliver additional air to the fuel, raising the rate of combustion and therefore the heat output.

i am sure it is very very very very ancient! there is probably proof as well.

so what does that tell you?

and how come they have iron chariots in the bible?

Archeological evidence at various sites in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan (USA) demonstrate that ancient Copper Mining, on a massive scale, took place 5,000-1,200 BP.

http://www.exploringthenorth.com/cophis ... phist.html



       Around the northern shore of Lake Superior, and on the adjacent Isle Royale, there are approximately 5,000 ancient copper mine workings.  In 1953 and 1956 Professor Roy Drier led two Michigan Mining and Technology expeditions to the sites.  Charcoal found at the bases of the ancient mining pits yielded radiocarbon dates indicating that the mines had been operated between 2000 BC and 1000 BC.  These dates correspond nearly to the start and the end of the Bronze Age in northern Europe.  The most conservative estimates by mining engineers show that at least 500 million pounds of metallic copper were removed over that time span, and there is no evidence as to what became of it.

http://faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/bronze/bronze9.htm

Who were these ancient Miners, Sea Merchant Traders?

[LatinAmericanview]

When in time was the metal making skills acquired to make bronze? when was man able to achieve fire hot enough?

copper  melting point 1357.77 K, 1084.62 °C, 1984.32 °F

tin melting point 505.08 K (231.93 °C, 449.47 °F)

Several processes, such as metallurgical iron smelting and welding, require so much heat that they could only be developed after the invention of the bellows. The bellows are used to deliver additional air to the fuel, raising the rate of combustion and therefore the heat output.

i am sure it is very very very very ancient! there is probably proof as well.

so what does that tell you?

and how come they have iron chariots in the bible?

Archeological evidence at various sites in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan (USA) demonstrate that ancient Copper Mining, on a massive scale, took place 5,000-1,200 BP.

http://www.exploringthenorth.com/cophis ... phist.html



       Around the northern shore of Lake Superior, and on the adjacent Isle Royale, there are approximately 5,000 ancient copper mine workings.  In 1953 and 1956 Professor Roy Drier led two Michigan Mining and Technology expeditions to the sites.  Charcoal found at the bases of the ancient mining pits yielded radiocarbon dates indicating that the mines had been operated between 2000 BC and 1000 BC.  These dates correspond nearly to the start and the end of the Bronze Age in northern Europe.  The most conservative estimates by mining engineers show that at least 500 million pounds of metallic copper were removed over that time span, and there is no evidence as to what became of it.

http://faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/bronze/bronze9.htm

Who were these ancient Miners, Sea Merchant Traders?

It is a bit of a mystery? The radiocarbon dated charcoal but no finished product. Poof! Magical gone.

[Wimpy]

My Father spent the last 20 years of his life investigating these and other ancient peoples.

[Anonymous]

sorry wimpy - my sarcastic sense of humor eludes people sometimes. When I said ancient, I meant recent.

I took a look at your links.

No sources quoted in the first article

Copper was first mined in this area by an ancient vanished race between 5,000 and 1,200 bc. These miners left no burial grounds, dwellings, pottery, clay tablets or cave drawings. What was left behind was thousands of copper producing pits and more thousands of crude hammering stones with which the pits had been worked. The ancients apparently worked the copper bearing rock by alternately using fire and cold water, to break the copper ore into smaller pieces from which they could extract the metal with hand held hammering stones or stone hatchets. With this copper, they made tools.

Scientists and engineers estimate that it would have required 10,000 men 1,000 years to develop the extensive operations carried on throughout the region. It is estimated that 1.5 billion pounds of copper were mined by these unknown people.

I am sure copper was mined by someone, the question is by who and when

and yet not a single grave - maybe they ate the dead bone and all.

The pure copper of Lake Superior has been discovered in prehistoric cultures throughout North and South America.

and yet the Indian tribes used stone arrow heads

The mystery of their origin remains unsolved. The mystery of their disappearance remains unsolved.

Many hammered copper knives, arrow and spear heads and axes were recovered at ancient mining sites. Some fine examples are on display at Fort Wilkins.

In 1842, the Chippewa ceded all claims to 30,000 square miles of the Upper Peninsula to the United States Government. The Copper Rush was on. In 1843, before the western gold rush of the '49ers, thousands came to the Copper Country to try their luck.

The first mining rush came to Copper Harbor. All travel was by boat, there were no roads. Copper Harbor became a bustling sea town.

In the winter, travel was by dog sled. Boom towns sprang up everywhere around the mines. These mines produced most of the world's copper.

The rush of copper hunters came clamoring ashore at picturesque Copper Harbor, Ontonagon and Eagle Harbor. Boom towns sprang up everywhere a ship could safely find shelter from Lake Superior.

Mystery solved - remains of the ancient prehistoric stuff was most likely these Copper Hunters. But it's more fun to attribute it to a mystical magical ancient race.

By 1846, only the Pittsburgh and Boston and the Lake Superior Mining Companies were still operating in the Copper Country. Much early speculation met with disaster. Of the 24 companies formed between 1844 and 1850, only six would pay any dividends and all were organized to mine mass and float copper deposits.

The experience of the Pittsburgh and Boston Company demonstrates why individual efforts could not succeed. For example, in 1844-45, Pittsburgh and Boston stockholders spent $28,000 on diggings near Copper Harbor, realizing but $2,968 from sales of copper. Their experiences on the Copper Harbor Lighthouse Point and near today's concession at Ft. Wilkins were not unique. The Fort Wilkins shaft bottomed at 120 feet and stockholders dug deeper into their pockets so the search might continue elsewhere.

Shortly thereafter the fabulous Cliff Mine began producing the first mass copper that was not also float copper. The Cliff Mine was near Eagle Harbor, 19 miles west of Copper Harbor (Map). Huge pieces of metal, some weighing more than 50 tons, were discovered where they had been deposited. They lay deep beneath the surface, undisturbed by the glaciers which had gouged out so many other specimens, scattered them around the country and tricked so many early miners. In 1849, the Cliff hit rich vein rock. Pure copper masses, some weighing 100 tons, were chiseled, hammered, blasted, cut in pieces and hauled to the surface bit by bit.

Hoisting machines of a magnitude never before dreamed of, were designed to lift hundreds of tons of Keweenaw rock from thousands of feet below the surface. Great stamp mills were built to crush rock so metal seams and chunks could be separated from the poor rock before smelting. All this copper was shipped out of the copper country on small (by modern standards) boats, down treacherous Lake Superior and finally through the St. Mary's River Canal at Sault St. Marie.

The Soo Locks were opened in 1855, producing increased immigration, commerce and cheaper copper shipping connections to eastern industrial markets. Railroads were soon serving the entire area. The Keweenaw was on its way to becoming a major industrial-mining-population center.

All over the range the wilderness gave way to attractive communities housing miners, mill men and merchants. Settlers poured in from everywhere to work the mines, clear land and build farms and to establish businesses.

By 1900 the shafts of Keweenaw were the deepest in the world. Bringing copper to the surface required increasing amounts of physical plant investment and it was apparent to geologists that the mines of the district had reached maturity.

When the mines were no longer profitable, the companies and employees left. All that remains are ruins of mines, ghost towns and a lot of copper. Many of the people who live here today are descendents of the courageous Copper Miners of the Copper Country.

I am sure that is true and these guys would not dig pits and use stones or make copper axes and stuff.

[Anonymous]

The second article is just masonic hocus pocus. They are always finding crap from the "ancient" "Phoenicians" who are without a doubt Venations.
They also always claim that it is so amazing that the  "ancient" "Phoenicians" language is so much like hebrew. It's all a joke to these guys.

http://faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/bronze/bronze9.htm

Anyway my point was that at best the knowledge of bronze making was developed during the latter stages of the Byzantine empire [ROMAN] around 1300's and most likely closer to our time say 1500's.

My point being that the Bronze axe in the Fasces can only be conceived at a particular point in time, when the technology was invented that made it possible to make bronze.

KeepTruthFree did a show with Joe Blow about how the Founding Fathers of America were trying to emulate the byzantine system and were obsessed with all things Byzantine. That is his take, and I have not looked into it as of yet to form an opinion in either direction.

[Wimpy]

The preponderance of EMPIRICAL evidence  that dates the time of bronze manufacturing and Iron manufacturing is unequivocal.  To suggest a middle ages origin for the technology is so ignorant it's frightening.  We need critical thinkers to get the message out not diversionary bullshit.  I will be watching and pointing.

I will not discuss this hair brained idea or subject again because it is clearly a distraction and an absolute waste of time and energy.


Just look at a couple of links that represent hundreds.

http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/trades/metals.htm


http://www.humanities-interactive.org/a ... ze_age.htm


WIMPY

[Anonymous]

The preponderance of EMPIRICAL evidence  that dates the time of bronze manufacturing and Iron manufacturing is unequivocal.  To suggest a middle ages origin for the technology is so ignorant it's frightening.  We need critical thinkers to get the message out not diversionary bullshit.  I will be watching and pointing.

I will not discuss this hair brained idea or subject again because it is clearly a distraction and an absolute waste of time and energy.


Just look at a couple of links that represent hundreds.

http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/trades/metals.htm


http://www.humanities-interactive.org/a ... ze_age.htm


WIMPY

ok don't discuss it's better to believe in make believe.

I personally don't find it diversionary since the lies are at the foundation of the whole show.

ps both links provided are based on false chronologies, but don't take my word for it. and did you actually read the Iron section? Haven't you heard it's a battle of words.

[Wimpy]

You've either demonstrated that you are a disinformation agent or a complete moron.  Which is it?

[Anonymous]

anyway, moving right along and to bring us back on topic - I would like to hear FreeTruth's take on the fasces. I am aware of some of it's symbolic nature.

Here is KeepTruthFree with Joe Blow

http://torrents.thepiratebay.org/496750 ... PB.torrent

http://sites.google.com/site/keeptruthf ... nd-me-html

where he discusses his Byzantine background and the Obsession of all thing Byzantine of the founding fathers. I am sure he could provide greater details if pushed.

[Free Truth]

To be honest, I'm not too sure what to think of it.

Though I am of the opinion that the ruling blood of past empires, like the Roman empire, are surely still around and are the owners. Their impressions are everywhere.

I also think that we have limited ourselves (on the "leaders"?) over the last couple years by not investigating who the real owners are. We're stuck on Rothschild and Co. Granted they seem to be our main target, but if AJ is talking about Rothschild, then I have to believe there's bigger players. And I believe there's more truth to learn about the most powerful blood through the years.  Unfortunately, I don't think there is much out there...

Rounding up a dozen Roths and treating them unfavorably would get us some answers though...

[Free Truth]

On the point about when it was actually possible to make a fasces, I think the ancients were capable of making things that the official story of inventions would claim otherwise. Apparently evidence of smelting capabilities can go back as far as 3,000+ years ago. Who knows...

Maybe we could use a fasces to deal with them when it's time for justice.