A strong WARNING about the disinformation coming from John Alan Martinson Jr, Prothink & some others

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

Weak understanding on your part would be more like it.  You completely missed the point.  Zionists want anti-Zionism to be equivalent to anti-Semitism, that is precisely what Timothy is trying to push on this forum.  For you, Ognir, the quote, from Israel's Foreign Minister from 1966-1974, which places him in office during the six day war, is not just "some Jew" and if you had looked him up you would know that.  Zionists want the term Zionism to equal Jewish because it allows them to equate any criticism of Israel with anti-semitism, which equates it with Nazism and the holocaust, which then defeats the argument with ad hominem.

You follow that?  Or do I need to post a quote from "some Jew" like Theodore Herzl?

Yours,

THE AQUARIAN 1

No Shlomo, I did get the point, I knew that's where you were going with that quote. Funny that you assumed I didn't clue in to the obviousness of it. What does that say about you?

Anti-Zionism is considered Anti-Semitism. Who do you think you are fooling by claiming that you are a legitimate anti-Zionist, yet you dont even know the roots of Zionism? Who are you fooling when you say the only reason you wont go beyond Zionism is because you are merely trying to avoid the "anti-semite label" when you are called anti-semite anyways? Jews call everyone anti-semitic just for being gentile. You dont even have to criticize Israel or Zionism.

But you keep working your little ass off trying to change that. Good luck. Either that or you are a shill.

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

Special kid timmy - you have tripped up again.

Timothy said:

Again with the third party bullshit again. You guys never cease, do you?

Christian Zionists are not Christians, They are Jews by conversion. Proselyte Jews or NOAHIDES. ONLY JEWs are Zionists. Oddly enough, a the title for a 21st degree Freemason is also a NOACHITE.

But...

special Tim also said this earlier:
Jews are a race. they are a culture, they are a law religionized, they are a religion. Get over it, and move on.

and

timmy said this too :
Jews are different races for sure, but mainly one. The more important issue is Jewish culture. That is the problem. As I said yeseterday, where religion fails to make a Jew Zionist, culture succeeds.

What the fk? So your typical anglo Pentecostal church goer who hears all this crap about Israel every Sunday is going to be a jew by conversion, therefore part of a race, or "mainly one" race too?

No wonders you dont want to talk about race because your views make no sense.

And this is what AA has to say on the topic:

The main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews), Mizrakhim (Middle Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish populations of the world is Israelite. The Israelite haplotypes fall into Y-DNA haplogroups J and E.

See, they all have the same DNA...ALL of them. You don't get jew specific genetic diseases like Bloom Syndrome from a religion. You don't get hook noses and fat lips from a religion. You don't get a sloped forehead and heavy brow ridge from being a zionist.

Yeah except you can also get genetic markers for Viking ancestory too! Does this mean vikings are a race as well? These guys are retards.Incidentally, the term "viking" was attributed to this wide-ranging group of scandanavian people in modern times.

But let's get to the heart of the matter about Timmy.

He somehow doesnt want to have a debate on race, yet he wants us to slag off all jews and if you dont also do that in a racist fashion then you are a "pussy". This is the kind of script JAM, quest and AA follow.

Timothy said:

Do you really think that by speaking out against Jews, but just not calling them a race, is going to save you from hate laws?

If they are going to get you, they are going to get you. Semantics will not save you. Stop being such a pussy.

Oh and lets not forget how much timmy defends JAM:

John Allan Martinson gets it. He tells it better than most I have heard of. He is not disinfo and definitely not cointel as far as I can see.

Timmy is a JAm affiliate or is hopelessly brainwashed. I dont think he can be saved.

Timmy is part of the cause to try and associate anti-zionism with being anti-jewish, therefore a possbile hate crime.

Srbadman, the source of your confusion in my words is your lack of knowledge. You don't know the Old Testament, the Torah, nor Christianity. You don't know that the majority of historical Christianity has been anti-Jewish. You only know what you hear and see on TV.

Get educated. If you want to learn about the Jews, learn their religion, Pick up an Old Testament before you start flapping your lips about what you know not. Then perhaps we can have a civil discussion.

[/tab]

CrackSmokeRepublican= Sorry, I have not really paid attention to this thread until tonight.  

My thoughts:

1. To all TIU Europeans  [ . . .]

Sorry to tell you this CSR but USA is already [almost] doomed [by design], and Europe is coming soon after. It is not about the jews but the Judaica Elites controlling the Jews and by that proxy, us. When you are [only] fighting "The Jews" you have already been deceit, Empire judaica already moved the Empire to Asia for some time ago and those elites don't care at all what gonna happen with the jews living in USA, or rather said, they expect you americans to "wake up" and blame the "hebrew" herd for all the bad things happening, if you read history carefully that is the modus operandi and always been that way. So, go and fight the puppets, but under thousands & thousands of years that haven't fix the problem, have it ? Go and defend the control opposition (AA, Prothink, JAM Jr, etc), but you are at least warn here, is a trap, it leads to pseudo Fascism / pseudo opposition.



Take for example a look to the Josephus Problem :


http://mathworld.wolfram.com/JosephusProblem.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_problem

[youtube:39x3xy22]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uebiF2rZoaI[/youtube]39x3xy22]

Count then for sure that the Magi/PhoenicianBloodlines/Imperial Forces/Sanhedrin [whateveryouwanttocallthem] manages this [now with computer powered Simulations/game theory] Because if you place the elites in safe mode by this permutation then understand that what you may see as evident [maybe] is not.



That means that when you think you know reality  and define it. . . then think twice, otherwise the 3 already above written gonna be in reality real REALITY, when right now is just in potencial a becoming reality.

ultimately is not just about the players but mainly about understanding the system.


.
.

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

Tab said:

It is not about the jews but the Judaica Elites controlling the Jews

Bwahahahaha!

So, go and fight the puppets, but under thousands & thousands of years that haven't fix the problem

Jewish Existence is Doublefold

The reason God has not let the Jews perish is because they bear witness to Christianity. Secondly, they are a curse from God for Anglos falling away from the Church.

As John the Baptist said: "Men must change before Kingdoms can change."  When Europe was predominantly Christian, Judaism was contained, when men fell from the Church, Judaism flourished.

[THE AQUARIAN 1]

I wasn't talking to you Tim.  My last post was to Ognir.  I suppose it doesn't matter either way.  You're modus operandi on this forum is not to discuss anything.  It's to force your will on others.  I've been there and done it.  It's a waste of time.

I'm not trying to avoid the anti-Semite label.  I don't care what people call me.  I will continue to believe what I believe regardless.  My POINT, in the previous post, which you have completely missed, was that ZIONISTS--phonetically sound it out if you have to--ZIONISTS, want to control the term Zionism so that it EQUALS--again, phonetically sound it out--EQUALS Jewish.  

This has nothing to do with what I want.  This is REALITY.  

YOU, Timothy_Fitzpatrick, are working for ZIONISTS--sound it out--ZIONISTS because you want ZIONISM to equal JUDAISM; for reasons that are beyond me.

ME, personally, I do not believe that all Jews are Zionists nor do I believe they are evil, therefore, I am not ANTI-JEWISH--sound it out if you have to--ANTI-JEWISH on a racial, or a religious level.  Do I support everything about the Jewish religion?  Absolutely not and we can discuss this at length if you'd like.  I can be critical of Jews without hating the entire lot of them.  It's unfortunate that you are unable to do this, because you make it difficult for others, who are not lazy, to wake people up.  You unknowingly work for the people you attempt to fight.  In this way, you are a Zionist.

You are right in saying that the public view of anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism.  I am fighting to change that.  You are upholding it.  I believe this to be counter productive and negative for humanity.  You and I are on opposing sides.  You've chosen to make your enemy the Jews, when you are fully aware, that your enemy includes innocents.  I will not disparage people for being born.  Doing that would be cursing God.

And I'm not about to start doing that.  I wish you wouldn't either.

Yours,

THE AQUARIAN 1

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

you want ZIONISM to equal JUDAISM; for reasons that are beyond me.

Go read the Old Testament before you embarass yourself further. I repeat myself yet again, ZIONISM COMES FROM THE JEWISH RELIGION IN THE TORAH. JUDAISM IS ZIONISM.

And on the contrary Shlomo. Jews don't want us to know the religous (Torah/Talmudic) roots of Zionism. Because then we will see that the problem is more than just Zionism.

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

So, is it any wonder that as Orthodox Christianity has perished, Judaism has flourished reciprocally. You cannot fully understand the Jewish question from a secular-humanist view. That is the problem with all of you.

The Jewish question doesn't concern you. It concerns the true followers of Christ. It is a war with them.

[THE AQUARIAN 1]

No one is arguing that Zionism comes from Judaism.  Do you understand that?  Read the sentence again if you need to.

No I'm serious, re-read it.

ZIONISM COMES FROM JUDAISM.  We're all aware of this.  That doesn't make Zionism equal to Judaism.  Nor does it make every Jew a Zionist.  

I've read the Old Testament.  Propagating a Jewish state is not the sole purpose of that book.  The majority of Zionism does not come from the Torah, it comes from the interpretation of the Torah, and that book is called the Talmud.

And you think that all Jews are trying to hide the Talmud from non-Jews.  Take a stroll to Barnes and Nobles and see if you can find it.

Yours,

THE AQUARIAN 1

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

No one is arguing that Zionism comes from Judaism.  Do you understand that?  Read the sentence again if you need to.

No I'm serious, re-read it.

ZIONISM COMES FROM JUDAISM.  We're all aware of this.  That doesn't make Zionism equal to Judaism.  Nor does it make every Jew a Zionist.  

I've read the Old Testament.  Propagating a Jewish state is not the sole purpose of that book.  The majority of Zionism does not come from the Torah, it comes from the interpretation of the Torah, and that book is called the Talmud.

And you think that all Jews are trying to hide the Talmud from non-Jews.  Take a stroll to Barnes and Nobles and see if you can find it.

Yours,

THE AQUARIAN 1

Good to see you admitting Zionism comes form Judaism. Now explain to me how Zionism is not equal to Judaism please. How are they different?

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

Answer this:

"What is the best religion for Jews? That allows them to trash their Talmud and Protocols."  

[THE AQUARIAN 1]

No one is arguing that Zionism comes from Judaism.  Do you understand that?  Read the sentence again if you need to.

No I'm serious, re-read it.

ZIONISM COMES FROM JUDAISM.  We're all aware of this.  That doesn't make Zionism equal to Judaism.  Nor does it make every Jew a Zionist.  

I've read the Old Testament.  Propagating a Jewish state is not the sole purpose of that book.  The majority of Zionism does not come from the Torah, it comes from the interpretation of the Torah, and that book is called the Talmud.

And you think that all Jews are trying to hide the Talmud from non-Jews.  Take a stroll to Barnes and Nobles and see if you can find it.

Yours,

THE AQUARIAN 1

Good to see you admitting Zionism comes form Judaism. Now explain to me how Zionism is not equal to Judaism please. How are they different?

This isn't anything that needed to be admitted.  Zionism is not equal to Judaism for a number of reasons.  For one, true Judaism believes that Israel can only be ordained by God.  Since the House of Rothschild took it upon themselves to be the messiah of the Jews, the current state of Israel is unholy and not ordained by God.  

Most Jews do not believe that the ordained state of Israel will give them "2800 Goyim slaves to every Jew."  This is straight from the Talmud.  Stuff like this:

"Jehovah Himself studies the Talmud standing, he has such respect for that book." -- Tract Mechillo.

"It is more wicked to question the words of the rabbis than those of the Torah." -- Michna Sanhedryn 11:3.

These passages are heretical in the religion of Judaism.  This breaks the first commandment.  It puts the rabbis before God.  Parts of the Talmud twisted Judaism into something unholy and spawned the modern movement of Zionism.  Israel Shahak exposed much of this "Rabbis as God" nonsense in his book "Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years" and wrote very clearly about the Rabbis tactics to gain control over their people.

Yeshua ben Yosef, a.ka. Jesus Christ, destroyed the need for a rabbi and the sanhedrin as he became the chief religious figure for Jews to reach God through.  This made every Jew, or converted Christian, responsible for his or her relationship with God.  No longer did they need their religious and cultural practices dictated to them by a rabbi.  Yeshua changed a lot about Judaism.  The story of the Good Samaritan combats the tribal, and often racist nature of many of the Jews during that time period.  He took many things about Judaism and made them superfluous, in particular, the authority of the Sanhedrin.  This is primarily why he was put to death.

After Yeshua and the spread of Christianity across the known world, non-converted Jews were persecuted very violently.  Not only because of their religious difference but also for their practice of usury.  This made some Jews even more tribal, secretive, and eventually manipulative.  I believe many of the vitriolic and venomous passages in the Talmud are a reaction to persecution and slavery.  Jews became a master/slave culture.  And this has effected a huge portion of their population.  

Goyim, the word racist Jews use for non-Jews, were seen as animals and beasts of burden, not only because some of the text in the Old Testament describes them as such, but also because some non-Jews saw Jews as cattle, as objects, as non-humans, as the other, and treated them as such.  Some Jews wanted and prayed that one day they would be the persecutors, that one day they would be the masters.  Some of these Jews even went so far as to turn against God and worship another.

Other Jews trusted in God and Israel is what they prayed for.  The shining hope for a persecuted people.  A homeland where their people can live in peace, free from persecution a land promised by God.

Zionism took this hope and turned it into theft, racism, and murder.  A blot on humanity, a sickness that has no, known, cure.

This is a very complex issue.  I've barely touched on it.  I'm not trying to place a moral judgement on any of this.  This is the history that I know, a very general version of it.  I certainly don't think it's as simple as saying that "every Jew alive is in league with the Rothschilds."

To answer another question: "What is the best religion for Jews?  That allows them to trash their Talmud and Protocols."

Well, Judaism allows them to trash the Talmud and the Protocols.  Jews are asked to be "righteous lions of God" in the face of sin.  There are many righteous Jews.  When Judaism is interpreted correctly, and not read and believed verbatim, it can be a guide for living a good life.

However, I think the tenets of Christianity are far less convoluted than Judaism and make more sense to me personally.

Whew!

Yours,

THE AQUARIAN 1

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

Most Jews do not believe that the ordained state of Israel will give them "2800 Goyim slaves to every Jew.

Evidence? If you don't have the stats to back this up, than this is just opinion...your opinion.

These passages are heretical in the religion of Judaism.

Wrong, the Talmud passages you quoted are not heretical in Judaism. The Talmud is the authoratative book in Judaism, even more authoratative than the Torah.

Yeshua ben Yosef, a.ka. Jesus Christ, destroyed the need for a rabbi and the sanhedrin as he became the chief religious figure for Jews to reach God through. This made every Jew, or converted Christian, responsible for his or her relationship with God. No longer did they need their religious and cultural practices dictated to them by a rabbi. Yeshua changed a lot about Judaism. The story of the Good Samaritan combats the tribal, and often racist nature of many of the Jews during that time period. He took many things about Judaism and made them superfluous, in particular, the authority of the Sanhedrin. This is primarily why he was put to death.

Yeshua is not Hebrew for Jesus. That is a popular yet erroneous belief.

Jews became a master/slave culture. And this has effected a huge portion of their population.

Yeah, the MAJORITY of Jews.

Goyim, the word racist Jews use for non-Jews, were seen as animals and beasts of burden

True, but we STILL are seen as animals and beasts of burden. Present tense.

Other Jews trusted in God and Israel is what they prayed for. The shining hope for a persecuted people. A homeland where their people can live in peace, free from persecution a land promised by God.

Judaism is NOT the book of the Old Testament. Judaism only esteems parts of the Torah. The Tanakh (entire OT, with prophets, law and writings) is largely ignored, even by Orthodox Jews.

There are many righteous Jews.

Like who? What makes one righteous according to the Bible?

When Judaism is interpreted correctly, and not read and believed verbatim, it can be a guide for living a good life.

Sure, is that why no outsiders are allowed in?

[kokakola]

Hey Timmy, good to see you active here.

I spread some of your content (AJ related) in several L*U*A*P N*O*R related sites and got some good response from the audience there...I have long been wondering about this stuff too, so I finally opened a blog today...cointelblog(.)wordpress(.)com

[THE AQUARIAN 1]

Yeshua or Yahshua.  This has been an ongoing debate.

[THE AQUARIAN 1]

This would be an opinion, as I have not polled "most Jews" of their beliefs toward the passage from the Talmud I have quoted.  In my experience however, most Jews have not even read the Talmud.  I figured opinions were welcome in this discussion, considering your assertion that all Jews are complicit in a conspiracy to ruin the world.

Wrong, the Talmud passages you quoted are not heretical in Judaism. The Talmud is the authoratative book in Judaism, even more authoratative than the Torah.

This is false.  Rabbis make this claim, but it's not true.  It may be true for Rabbis and Talmudic Zionists.  On a basic level, the Talmud is an extrapolation of the Tanakh.  The Tanakh is made up of the five books of Moses and can also be referred to as the Pentateuch.  These books are considered the word of God as told through Moses.  Any Jew who has a reverence for God holds the Torah as "The Law," which is a Hebrew translation of the word Torah.

True, but we STILL are seen as animals and beasts of burden. Present tense.

By SOME Jews this is true.  Any evidence to back this claim of yours?  That could be interesting.  You also make the claim that the majority of Jews were effected by master/slave, evidence for this??

You mentioned that Judaism is not the book of the Old Testament, I don't believe I said it was.  The Tanakh is not the entire Old Testament.  Did you think it was??

To be continued...

Yours,

THE AQUARIAN 1

[thirdeyewise]

In my experience however, most Jews have not even read the Talmud.  

Actually reading the Talmud is not really that important in Judaism because the Jews are taught that the word of the Rabbi is the most important thing. The Rabbi reads the Talmud and provides the interpretation for the flock.



"The modern Jew is the product of the Talmud" – Michael Rodkinson, in the preface of Babylonian Talmud, page XI

"The Talmud is to this day the circulating heart's blood of the Jewish Religion. Whatever laws, customs or ceremonies we observe - whether we are orthodox, conservative, reform or merely spasmodic sentamentalists = we follow the Talmud. It is our Common Law." (The Talmud, by Herman Wouk)

"The Talmud: Heart's Blood of the Jewish Faith..." (November 11, 1959, New York
Herald Tribune, based on The Talmud, by Herman Wouk).


The following is a well-known and highly praised opinion in the writings of the Rabbis: "My son, give heed to the words of the scribes rather than to the words of the law."

The reason for this is found in the tract Sanhedrin X, 3, f.88b:
"He who transgresses the words of the scribes sins more gravely than the transgressors of the words of the law."


The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia (1943),  lists under "Pharisees":

"The Jewish religion as it is today traces its descent without a break, through all the
centuries, from the Pharisees. Their leading ideas and methods found expression in a
literature of enormous extent...The Talmud is the largest and most important single
member of that literature..."

considering your assertion that all Jews are complicit in a conspiracy to ruin the world.

If you are a Jew then by definition you are complicit because the ideology of Judaism is exactly that, Jewish world domination.
You did say "ruin the world"?


The Jewish author, Oscar Levy, in the Preface to his book THE WORLD SIGNIFICANCE OF THE RUSSIAN REVOLUTION, said:  "There is scarcely an event in modern Europe that cannot be traced back to Jews. We Jews today are nothing else but the world's seducers; it's destroyers; it's incendiaries; it's executioners."

[Anonymous]

It's like this, Reeler is a Nigga but I can't call him one

Whatchu said shawty?

Look. I got family and patna dem off in Savannah closer to your scary ass in FL. These niggas just wouldn't give your fuckin ass the time of day. Fuck da forum hype bruh. :roll:

Don't worry reeler, he said nigga, not nigger. it's all good! :lol:

listen bitch

Da intent was there muhfucka. if a pussy-ass-cracka-fed pulled me over in da Chevy and found Alprazolam on my fuckin ass, it would grill da fuck outta me...i just had to grill da fuck outta Wimpy's burger eatin ass!

you been watchin too much of dat Hollywood shit, ain't on fuckin difference between Nigga and Nigger, when a whitey say it anyway. bout all good :roll:

[joeblow]

listen bitch

Da intent was there muhfucka. if a pussy-ass-cracka-fed pulled me over in da Chevy and found Alprazolam on my fuckin ass, it would grill da fuck outta me...i just had to grill da fuck outta Wimpy's burger eatin ass!

you been watchin too much of dat Hollywood shit, ain't on fuckin difference between Nigga and Nigger, when a whitey say it anyway. bout all good :roll:

Such language is not appropriate for a Research Forum such as TiU, you have received a warning.

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

Yeshua or Yahshua.  This has been an ongoing debate.

What, putting the "a-h" makes a difference? No, out of all the of the variations the YHWHist cultists use, whether it be Yeshua, Yashua, Yehoshua, Joshua, etc...they are all fake names and none of them have any historical significance as far as Jesus Christ is concerned.

The New Testament was written in Greek, so if you want to get back to the original, you would call Jesus by His name translated into Greek which is (Ἰησοῦς (Iēsoûs)).

This notion of using the so called Hebrew is merely a fad, predominant in the Christian Zionist/Messianic movement.

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

This is false.  Rabbis make this claim, but it's not true.  It may be true for Rabbis and Talmudic Zionists.  On a basic level, the Talmud is an extrapolation of the Tanakh.  The Tanakh is made up of the five books of Moses and can also be referred to as the Pentateuch.  These books are considered the word of God as told through Moses.  Any Jew who has a reverence for God holds the Torah as "The Law," which is a Hebrew translation of the word Torah.

By SOME Jews this is true.  Any evidence to back this claim of yours?  That could be interesting.  You also make the claim that the majority of Jews were effected by master/slave, evidence for this??

You mentioned that Judaism is not the book of the Old Testament, I don't believe I said it was.  The Tanakh is not the entire Old Testament.  Did you think it was??

To be continued...

Yours,

THE AQUARIAN 1

Wrong aquarian, you are confusing the Torah with the Tanakh. The Torah is the Pentateuch (Five Books of Moses), whereas the Tanakh is what is considered the entire Old Testament; law, prophets, and writings.

In other words:

Torah: Genesis - Deuteronomy (Five books of Moses - The Law)

Tanakh: Joshua - Malachi (Prophets and Writings)

The Talmud is the highest book in Judaism

The Torah is the second in line

The Tanakh is the least out of all, even the Kabballah, probably because the Tanakh is so harsh agianst the Jews
The Prophets were outspoken opponents of the Jews and were killed by the Jews

Matthew 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!"

[joeblow]

Did not Ognir say that all concerned should join him on a show? This thread has deviated greatly.

[Wimpy]

Reeler,

Are you really JAM, the main subject of this thread?

[sullivan]

Timothy... You are wrong about the Torah. The term can be interchangeable with the Pentateuch. But it is more commonly used as a reference to the entirety of Jewish "religious" texts.
JoeBlow...Yes, this thread has wandered way off base. Time to move this discussion to a new thread with an appropriate title.

[joeblow]

New thread for any Torah-related posts created viewtopic.php?f=41&t=9664 and all such posts that deviate from the thread's topic will be placed there.

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

The bottom line is, and I'm sure JAM would agree with me, while all Jews may not be Zionist, all Jews are guilty by association. The burden lies upon them to prove themselves. ANd that is why a Jew can only be trusted when he renounces Judaism. Hence people like Benjmain Freedman can be trusted.

[thirdeyewise]

Reeler, Are you really JAM, the main subject of this thread?

Reeler is not JAM, trust me.

[/tab]

.

The Brendon O'Connell's trial coming soon (Australia) - Jews : Race or Religion ?

Since the Statute provides no legal definition of whether or not Jews are a race, the question is an issue of fact, not law, and therefore a defendant so charged ought to be entitled to have the issue of fact determined by a jury, if that is his choice, and not a judge or other non-jury form of hearing.

Christopher Jon Bjerknes

[youtube:361ef0ev]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yep5yLJG0i4[/youtube]361ef0ev]

__________________________________________________________________
by Fredrick Toeben

1. On 11 December 2009 Fredrick Töben visited Perth to observe in the District Court a call-over in the Matter of Director of Public Prosecution - DPP, Western Australia, and Brendon O'Connell.
2. The matter is important because Mr O'Connell is accused by the state of racially vilifying Jews, and so it must be clarified whether the Jews are a race, a religion or both, or anything else. The DPP has taken up this complaint laid by a young Jew in Perth who felt harassed by O'Connell.
3. If the court finds being a Jew is a racial matter, then this brings in the National Socialist definition that a Jew is a race, something that speaks against the facts, though the ethnic category would support the facts that some Jews make up an ethnic category, for example the Ashkenazi-Khazars and the Sephardics.
4. While visiting Israel during the 1970s Töben met Chinese and Indian Jews, and in Africa during the early 1980s he met African Jews.
5. He thus concludes that the Jew is a religion and not a race.
6. Problems may emerge when the definition is tested in the Perth District Court because there will be claims made that being Jewish is a matter of one's mindset.
7. There is legal strength in this argument because Australians of European descent have claimed they identify with the Aboriginal people and thus, for example, in matters of social security purposes they claim to be indigenous, which courts have accepted as legitimate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yep5yLJG0i4
http://www.youtube.com/user/FredrickToben



________________________________________________________________________

By Christopher Jon Bjerknes
Though there are certainly weighty historically important questions which will be judged in the case of Brendon O'Connell, his first concern should be to preserve his liberty and win his case. Any defendant should be raising legal issues in his defense and not simply hope to win because he is morally and factually correct. If convicted, a defendant may have waived those rights he did not assert prior to and during trial, and the appeals courts may refuse to consider any issues raised for the first time in post-conviction process. It is important, therefore, for any defendant to vigorously defend himself at the pretrail and trial stage of the prosecution, and throughout the process and assert all of his rights, and not get caught up in the drama and emotion which may blind him to the legal issues which can free him and which can help preserve all of our fundamental rights as human beings against the encroachments of the State.

If the information Toeben presents is correct, then the law which the State seeks to enforce against Brendon O'Connell is fatally defective on its face.

If the determination of whether or not the Jews constitute a race is made after the alleged act of vilifying the Jews occurs, then such a determination, however made, and whether made by a judge or a jury, or some other form of hearing, is made ex post facto and therefore is unenforceable against a defendant who had no prior notice of what conduct is proscribed by law.

The very act of conducting a hearing to determine whether or not Jews are a race demonstrates that the Statute failed to provide sufficient notice to the public of what conduct is proscribed by law, and therefore the Statute is unenforceable and must be struck down.

Since the Statute provides no legal definition of whether or not Jews are a race, the question is an issue of fact, not law, and therefore a defendant so charged ought to be entitled to have the issue of fact determined by a jury, if that is his choice, and not a judge or other non-jury form of hearing. I know nothing about Australian law. It might be that a defendant will have waived his right to have the issue determined by the jury at trial if he fails to assert that right pretrial and instead agrees to have the issue determined by a judge without objecting and taking exception to the violation of his fundamental due process rights. I do not know if the Australian courts honor a defendant's fundamental right to have issues of fact determined by a jury of his peers, as opposed to by a judge who in America is only entitled to determine issues of the law if that is the defendant's choice. This is a very important point to consider and one which the appeals courts may refuse to consider if it is not raised at the pretrial stage.

(1) There is a substantial argument to be made that there are no distinct human races, and therefore any accusation of racial vilification does not, and cannot state an offense and can therefore be dismissed pretrial. (2) This argument can be made in addition to the argument that the Jews are so genetically diverse that they cannot constitute any homogenous and unique biological category, much less constitute a specific race. (3) Beyond this is the argument that the Jews are followers of the Jewish religion, not an homogenous and unique racial biological category. A Jew may become a non-Jew by changing his religion without changing his genes. A non-Jew may become a Jew by conversion and belief. Though such a convert may believe that he is racially superior based on his incorporation through his beliefs into the "chosen people", science provides no evidence that his genes have changed, much less blended with those of a mythological homogenous and unique Jewish genotype which nowhere exists. These are three separate issues and should be heard separately at different hearings or by a jury.

Once again, since the law has not made any such definitions, these are questions of fact best left to the determination of a jury which is more likely to be sympathetic to the defendant's position than the State's by virtue of the fact that a judge is a member of the State. Any defendant should consider whether or not it is in his best interests to raise issues of: fact versus law, jury versus judge; and raise objections and take exceptions should the courts deny his right to have these issues of fact determined by a jury of his peers.

I once again caution O'Connell to use his head, not his heart, to defend his liberty, and his backside, and not martyr himself out of emotion and knowledge that he is in the right. He needs proper legal counsel who defend all of his rights and he needs to assert those rights and make proper and effective legal arguments as well as historical, religious and political arguments. The press, the public and the courts will take a strong interest in well stated legal arguments.

http://jewishracism.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... endon.html
http://brendonoconnell.blogspot.com/

[Ognir]

Why do I get the feeling that CJB actually reads here?  :lol:

Zionism Is Judaism
By Christopher Jon Bjerknes
2-7-10
 

Stating that, "Catholicism is Christianity," is not the same thing as stating that "Christianity is Catholicism." Catholicism is a Christian belief system, but there are Christians who are not Catholics. Zionism is a Judaic belief system, but there are Jews who are not Zionists. However, the fact that there are Jews who are not Zionists does not mean that Zionism is not Judaism; just as the fact that there are Christians who are not Catholics does not mean that Catholicism is not Christianity.
 
The Judaism of the Old Testament is devoid of spirituality or any advanced Metaphysics. Instead, it posits a creator god who is just like the stereotypical Jew, selfish (Genesis 3:5, 22), jealous (Exodus 34:14), supremacist (Zechariah 14:9), desiring all the gold, silver and jewels of the whole World (Joshua 6:19. Proverbs 1:13-14. Ezekiel 28:13. Joel 3:5. Haggai 2:7-8. Zechariah 14:14), and wanting to rule the World from Jerusalem and impose Jewish law on every human being (Exodus 34:11-17. Psalm 2; 72. Isaiah 2:1-4; 9:6-7; 11:4, 9-10; 42:1; 61:6. Jeremiah 3:17. Joel 3:16-17. Micah 4:2-3. Zechariah 8:20-23; 14:9).
 
Just as Jews are jealous of others and seek to exterminate them, the Jewish god is jealous of other gods and seeks to exterminate them. Just as the Jews seek to horde all the gold, silver and jewels of the World and bring them to Jerusalem, so too does the Jewish god. Just as the Jews seek to rule the World from Jerusalem, so too does the Jewish god. "As above, so below," or, "On Earth as it is in Heaven," says the Jew.
 
The point is, Judaism is ultimately mundane and political, and the Jewish god is a reflection of the Jewish person. Judaism is a plan for World conquest and a call to the Jew to be racist, segregated and to steal the land of Palestine/Canaan from the native inhabitants.
 
The fact that there is no distinction between Zionism and Judaism can be easily proven in a simple example, one of a large number of such examples. Consider the fact that the Zionists want to make Jerusalem the capital of Israel and to drive out all non-Jews from Jerusalem.
 
It is important to note that the Jews were never the native population of Jerusalem, but were instead always genocidal, racist and segregationist invaders. The Jews have only been majority residents of Jerusalem for relatively short periods of time in their history, and never natives. The same is true of the Jewish god, who sought to drive out and exterminate the native peoples and their gods and make Jerusalem an exclusively Jewish city. The Zionists are in the process of making this Judaic quest a reality, not because politics demands that the Jews be absolutely segregated and that no non-Jews ever again be allowed into Jerusalem, but rather because Judaism demands these things of the Jews, in the Old Testament.
 
Isaiah 52:1, states:
 
"Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean."
 
 
Joel 3:16-17, states:
 
"16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. 17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more."
 
Zionism and Judaism are indistinguishable, but this does not mean that Judaism must be interpreted as the Zionists interpret it, or that every aspect of Judaism is Zionist. It does, however, mean that Zionism is Judaism. And what is it that prominent Zionists say?
 
Yehoshafat Harkabi noted that Rabbi Meir Kahane wrote in modern times,
 
"The Arabs of Israel are a desecration of God's name. Their non-acceptance of Jewish sovereignty over the Land of Israel is a rejection of the sovereignty of the God of Israel and of his kingdom. Removing them from the land is therefore more than a political matter. It is a religious matter, a religious obligation to wipe out the desecration of God's name. Instead of worrying about the reactions of the Gentiles if we act, we should tremble at the thought of God's wrath if we do not act. Tragedy will befall us if we do not remove the Arabs from the land, since redemption can come at once in its full glory if we do, as God commands us. . . . Let us remove the Arabs from Israel and hasten the Redemption (Thorns in Your Eyes, pp. 244-245)."-- English translation in: Y. Harkabi, Israel's Fateful Hour, Harper & Row, New York, (1988), p. 148. Harkabi cites: M. Kahane, Thorns in Your Eyes, New York, Jerusalem, (1980?), pp. 244-245.
 
 
Yehoshafat Harkabi noted that Maimonides wrote long ago,
 
"An affirmative precept is enjoined for the destruction of idolatry and its worshippers, and everything made for its sake. . . . In the Land of Israel, it is a duty actively to chase out idolatry until we have exterminated it from the whole of our country. Outside of the holy land, however, we are not so commanded; but only that whenever we acquire any territory by conquest, we should destroy all the idolatry found there (Hilkhot Avodah Zara, ch. 7:1)."--Y. Harkabi, Israel's Fateful Hour, Harper & Row, New York, (1988), p. 156.
 
and,
 
"It is forbidden to show them mercy, as it was said, 'nor show mercy unto them' (Deut. 7:2). Hence, if one sees one of them who worships idols perishing or drowning, one is not to save him. . . . Hence you learn that it is forbidden to heal idolators even for a fee. But if one is afraid of them or apprehends that refusal might cause ill will, medical treatment may be given for a fee but not gratuitously. . . . The foregoing rules apply to the time when the people of Israel live exiled among the nations, or when the Gentiles' power is predominant. But when Israel is predominant over the nations of the world, we are forbidden to permit a gentile who is an idolator to dwell among us. He must not enter our land, even as a temporary resident; or even as a traveler, journeying with merchandise from place to place, until he has undertaken to keep the seven precepts which the Noachides were commanded to observe (Hilkhot Avodah Zara, ch. 10:."--Y. Harkabi, Israel's Fateful Hour, Harper & Row, New York, (1988), p. 157.
 
 
The Jews have been saying, "Next year in Jerusalem" (Leshana Habaa Birushalayim) far longer than the term "Zionist" has been in existence. The Jews have wanted to exterminate the natives of Palestine and make it an absolutely segregated "Jewish State" from the beginning. The Jews want to take Jerusalem and make it an entirely segregated Jewish city, not because Zionism arose in the Nineteenth Century, but rather because the conquest and segregation of Jerusalem means for the Jews that they will then rule the entire Earth, judge and then exterminate the Goyim, which is the ultimate goal of Judaism, and was from the beginning. Christian Zionists know this and support it based on Luke 21:24, which states:
 
"And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."
 
Christian Zionists are traitors to their own nations, traitors who want to destroy all Gentile countries and make the Jews and the Jewish god masters of the World. This is not a new plan. It is clearly stated in the Old Testament, as I have proven, and those Jews who disapprove of the Zionists' interpretation nevertheless embrace the racism, segregationism and desire for World conquest of the Jewish Old Testament and its god, who is just like them.

[mgt23]

(1) There is a substantial argument to be made that there are no distinct human races, and therefore any accusation of racial vilification does not, and cannot state an offense and can therefore be dismissed pretrial. (2) This argument can be made in addition to the argument that the Jews are so genetically diverse that they cannot constitute any homogenous and unique biological category, much less constitute a specific race. (3) Beyond this is the argument that the Jews are followers of the Jewish religion, not an homogenous and unique racial biological category. A Jew may become a non-Jew by changing his religion without changing his genes. A non-Jew may become a Jew by conversion and belief. Though such a convert may believe that he is racially superior based on his incorporation through his beliefs into the "chosen people", science provides no evidence that his genes have changed, much less blended with those of a mythological homogenous and unique Jewish genotype which nowhere exists. These are three separate issues and should be heard separately at different hearings or by a jury.

I agree.

[sirbadman]

I reckon either Timmy doesnt sleep much or there is more than one person using his account. Given that I am generally 8-12 hours east of most of the tiu community, he responded very fast to the last post i made.

If you can check the IPs Timmy logged on from, i would. This could also explain why Timmy had inconsistent messages.

Agree with the other views here about how this has gone off topic. I dont need to read the torah to know the games JAM and co are playing.