Jews and Communism in South Africa

[checkitb4uwreckit]

Against the international background of heavy Jewish involvement in Communism, did the South African experience show any parallels? Perhaps the best way to gain an insight into this topic is to quote from four books, three of which are by Jewish authors.

BOOK ONE
A History of Communism in South Africa by Dr Henry R Pike (published by Christian Mission International of South Africa, Germiston, South Africa (1985, 1988).

A large number of Jews have worked to promote Communism in South Africa, as Pike's book indicates. Many of these Jews were involved in the organization of trade unions, particularly black trade unions. Some of the names mentioned by Pike are A Z Berman 'a noted Marxist' who headed the Industrial Socialist League in Cape Town; the communist writer David Shub, Solly Sachs, secretary of the Garment Workers Union and expelled from and then readmitted to the South African Communist Party, Bennie Weinbren who directed the Non-European Trade Union Federation, Issy Diamond, Abraham Levy, Hymie Levin, Issie Wolfson, Julius Lewin, Louis Joffe, Dr Max Joffe, Molly (Zelikowitz) Wolton, Lazar Bach, Rebecca (Notlowitz) Bunting, Fanny Klenerman, Michael Harmel, Sam Kahn, Katy Kagan, Eli Weinberg, Yetta Barenblatt, Hymie Barsel, Leon and Norman Levy, Lionel Forman, Jacqueline and Rowley Arenstein, Errol and Dorothy Shanley, Monty Berman, Bertram Hirson and Neville Rubin.

Dr Pike (p 212-3) quotes from a South African Government Gazette Extraordinary (vol VI 16 Nov 1962 pp 2-28) which listed 'persons who have been office-bearers, officers, members or active supporters of the Communist Party of South Africa'. The list included 66 'clearly identifiable as Jews', 61 'white non-Jews' and two uncertain. At the time, the South African population was approximately 3 million whites, while the South African Jewish population was 110 000 (World Almanac 1958 p270). So there was approximately one Jew for every 26 white non-Jews in the country. If there had been an equal distribution of Communist involvement between non-Jewish whites and Jews, the Jewish membership of the Communist Party should have been one-twenty-sixth the white Gentile representation. Instead, we find slightly more Jews as members. In other words, Jews were almost thirty times more likely to become members of the Communist Party than were white Gentiles. If Jews with non-Jewish names were also counted, the ratio would be likely to have been considerably higher.

In theory this could be explained away as simple Jewish concern for the welfare of the underdog, the lowest classes, and in the South African context, evidence of Jewish sympathies across racial barriers, or non-racism. In testing such a hypothesis to see whether this is indeed the case, we can look at another instance. Such concerns have been notoriously, and very conspicuously, almost totally absent in the protracted conflict in the Middle East. There, international Jewish support has been overwhelmingly and steadfastly in favor of the Jewish Israelis, and not of the Palestinians who have lost their country, and in thousands of cases their lives, to the violent settlers from Eastern Europe and America. After all, the entire territory was under Palestinian political control until 1947. The Jewish population of the area in 1917 was a mere 7% of the 700 000 inhabitants. The other 93% were Arabs. In 1947 the United Nations under tremendous US pressure gave the Zionists, who owned only about 6% of the land, 56% of the territory of Palestine. Since then, there has been a steady take-over of the remaining territory by force, violence, warfare, bribery and stealth.

Perhaps you might think Dr Pike is just 'anti-Semitic' and his approach is biased. But have a look at the next author:

BOOK TWO
Jews and Zionism: the South African Experience (1910-67), by Dr Gideon Shimoni (Oxford University Press, 1980). This book appears to have been written for a Jewish readership. Two extended quotes from the book will serve as a summary of the situation some decades ago.

[Dr Shimoni was born in South Africa to parents from Lithuania, but settled in Israel where he lectured at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and where he gained post-graduate degrees in Jewish history. While bitterly contemptuous of South Africa under the apartheid system, Dr Shimoni in effect identifies with the concept of geographically based ethnic groupings that was the basis of the South African system. This kind of irony, not to say hypocrisy, is typical of Jews opposed to 'racism' in Europe, the US or South Africa.]

Dr Shimoni writes of '..the extraordinary salience of Jewish individuals in the white opposition to the regime of apartheid. Throughout this period Jewish names kept appearing in every facet of the struggle: amongst reformist liberals; in the radical Communist opposition; in the courts, whether as defendants or as counsel for the defense; in the lists of bannings and amongst those who fled the country to evade arrest. Their prominence was particularly marked in the course of the Treason Trial which occupied an important place in the news media throughout the second half of the 1950's. This trial began in December 1956, when 156 people were arrested on charges of treason in the form of a conspiracy to overthrow the state by violence and to replace it with a state based on Communism. Twenty-three of those arrested were Whites, more than half of them Jews. They included Yetta Barenblatt, Hymie Barsel, Lionel (Rusty) Bernstein, Leon Levy, Norman Levy, Sydney Shall, Joe Slovo, Ruth (First) Slovo, Sonia Bunting, Lionel Forman, Isaac Horvitch, Ben Turok, Jacqueline Arenstein, Errol Shanley, Dorothy Shanley. To top it all, at one stage in the trial the defense counsel was led by Israel Maisels, while the prosecutor was none other than Oswald Pirow. The juxtaposition was striking: Maisels, the prominent Jewish communal leader, defending those accused of trying to overthrow White supremacy; Pirow, the extreme Afrikaner Nationalist and former Nazi sympathizer, defending White supremacy.' (pp. 227-8).

'In this extended five-year period between the emergence of violent opposition and its effective suppression, the prominent involvement of individual Jews was in the public eye more than ever before. This was even more so than in the dramatic circumstances of the 'Rivonia arrests'. On 11 July 1963 the police raided the home of Arthur Goldreich in Rivonia near Johannesburg, where it captured, by surprise, the leadership cadre of the Umkonto we Sizwe underground. Seventeen people were arrested.. Five of those arrested were Whites, all of them Jews. They were: Arthur Goldreich, Lionel Bernstein, Hilliard Festenstein, Dennis Goldberg and Bob Hepple.. [There was an] overwhelming impression that Jews were in the forefront of the White radicals who were trying to overthrow the system of White supremacy in South Africa. When the secret African Resistance Movement (ARM) was crushed during 1964, it again became evident that many Jews were involved. One of its founders was identified as Monty Berman.. others were Adrian Leftwich and Bertram (Baruch) Hirson. Among those who were associated with ARM were Neville Rubin and Michael Schneider [and ] others implicated were Frederick and Rhoda Prager, Raymond Eisenstein and Hugh Lewin..' (pp. 232-3).

Dr Shimoni records with obvious distaste the wording of an Afrikaans letter in a newspaper criticizing this fundamentally hypocritical proclivity of Jews: 'They (the Jews) themselves are the most exclusive apartheid people, yet they exert themselves here for integration.' While Jews themselves have shown no intention to integrate or merge with the African masses, they have been hyper-critical of mainstream whites who are reluctant to follow this route, criticizing churches with segregationist policies, while their synagogues have remained ethnically 100% Jewish.

BOOK THREE
Cutting Through the Mountain: Interviews with South African Activists Edited by Immanuel Suttner (Viking-Penguin, England and USA 1997).

This book also appears to have been written for a Jewish readership. It is a thick expensively bound book of over 600 pages, financially supported by the Liberty Life Foundation created by the Jewish mega-capitalist Donald Gordon. Suttner says 'a disproportionate number of individual Jews played a part in transforming South Africa into a more just society. There are two streams: those who fought 'within the system' as jurists, members of parliament, via the media, or in civil society, and those who entered 'illegal' organizations which were socialist, communist or mass-based in character.' (p.2) He says the book 'welcomes (these Jews) back not only as worthy South Africans, socialists, communists or liberals, but as worthy Jews' (p.3). Some of the 'remarkable people' (page vii) who are heroes of the book include:

Taffy Adler who was involved in the 1970s and '80s in the 'formation and consolidation of the black trade union movement'. His father was a Lithuanian Jew who emigrated to South Africa in 1926 and who 'was tremendously loyal to Stalin and Russian communism' right up to the fall of the Soviet Union in 1989. His uncle, Michael Harmel, became general secretary of the South African Communist Party.
Ray Alexander (Rachel Alexandrowich) arrived in South Africa from Latvia and joined the SA Communist Party five days later. She played a leading role in the organization of trade unions. She was married to Jack Simons, a 'devoted communist' and lecturer at the University of Cape Town.

Pauline Podbrey (Podbrez) born in Lithuania came to South Africa at the age of eleven. She joined the Communist Youth League, run by Max Joffe, and the related Labor League of Youth, run by Hilda Bernstein. Of the Communist Party she says 'the majority of the members were Jewish...looking back on it now, it seems as if everybody was Jewish.' (*p52). She married a prominent Indian trade unionist and Communist Party leader, resulting in her mother being ostracized by the South African Jewish community, although it has been and still is normal practice for this community to depict white non-Jews as despicable prejudiced racists.
Joe Slovo born in Lithuania, came to South Africa where he joined the Young Communist League at the age of sixteen. He became a central member of the Communist Party of South Africa and a 'hard-line Stalinist', becoming general secretary in 1986. He concentrated on building up Umkhonto we Sizwe, the 'armed wing' of the ANC (African National Congress), becoming its chief of staff and head strategist in the campaign of bombings directed at civilian targets and other acts of terror. He only abandoned his commitment to Stalinism and Soviet-style communism when the Soviet bloc started falling apart in the late 1980s and it became necessary to do so. A key strategist representing the ANC in the negotiations with De Klerk's government in the hand over of power, he became a minister in Mandela's Cabinet when the ANC came to power in 1994.
He died of cancer a few years later. His daughter published an autobiographical book describing her father's affair with a Jewish Communist friend's wife and his utter refusal to acknowledge the son born of this relationship.

Gill Marcus, the daughter of parents involved with the Communist Party, a long-time member of the Party and of the ANC, is now a Deputy Governor of the South African Reserve Bank after being a member of the first Mandela Cabinet. Ronnie Kasrils became a central figure in the South African Communist Party and head of military intelligence of the ANC's military wing. He became Deputy Minister of Defense in the Mandela government, and is now Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry.

BOOK FOUR
Traitors' End: The Rise and Fall of the Communist Movement in Southern Africa by Nathaniel Weyl (Arlington House, USA, 1970).

'For the most part, the Jews had come to South Africa from Lithuania at the turn of the century.. They had been popular at first, but by the mid-1930's this was no longer the case. The Jews had become heavily urbanized. In Johannesburg, they constituted 17 per cent of the population and were sufficiently conspicuous so that the metropolis was sometimes referred to, not as Jo'burg, but as Jewburg. They aroused envy and some rancor during the years of depression because they controlled a large part of the business of Johannesburg and other cities.. Anti-Semitism was fed by the economic discontent.. A perhaps more important ingredient was the prominence of South African Jews in finance, mining and the other economic command posts of the nation, on the one hand, and in revolutionary and racial reform movements on the other. From the outset, the Jews had been prominent in the Communist Party and its various fronts. They were equally conspicuous in the various movements that sought to break down the barriers separating the White from the non-White population. South African anti-Semitic propaganda.. depicted the Jew as a deracinated element who sought to destroy White civilization and nationalism with the twin weapons of Communism and international finance. Given the visible prominence of Jews in both areas, this doctrine fell on receptive ears.'

The famous Rivonia Trial of the 1960's resulted from a raid on a farm near Johannesburg in which many of the top leadership of the Communist party were detained. The White defendants were virtually all Jews, including Dennis Goldberg, 'a civil engineer who served as commander in a Communist camp that trained young guerrillas', and Lionel 'Rusty' Bernstein, the only prisoner to be acquitted. A Johannesburg architect, Bernstein 'admitted to having been a Communist for 25 years, but successfully alleged that he had left the party, without, however, changing his revolutionary convictions.' (Weyl pp 122-3). Amongst those implicated during the trial were the Jews Joe Slovo and his wife Ruth First, Bob Hepple and Michael Harmel. 'Operation Mayibuye [a plan for guerrilla warfare, armed invasion of South Africa and Communist conquest of the country] was drafted by Arthur Goldreich, perhaps the most important of the men captured by the South African Police at Rivonia. Goldreich managed to bribe his way out of prison.. During the trial, Goldreich was referred to by Nelson Mandela and other defendants as a military expert who served as an officer in the Israeli war for independence.. Goldreich's plan was modeled on the guerrilla strategy of the Chinese Communists.. Goldreich's notebook shows constant preoccupation with the practical details of revolutionary war. He goes into the types of explosives and fuses needed and their characteristics...' (Weyl pp124, 127-8).

'On December 16, 1966, the United Nations branded Rhodesia "a threat to international peace". President Johnson's Ambassador to the United Nations, Arthur Goldberg, immediately pledged United States support for sanctions against Rhodesia "in order to drive home to the illegal regime (of Ian Smith) that the international community will not tolerate the existence of a discriminatory system based on minority rule in defiance of the United Nations and its principles." Ambassador Goldberg's logic was extraordinary, to say the least. Over half of the 122 UN member states had governments not based upon majority rule As for the United Nations statement that Rhodesia threatened international peace, the statement simply reversed the facts of the matter. Rhodesia was exposed to attacks by guerrillas, armed, financed, trained and abetted by Black African member states of the United Nations in flagrant defiance of the UN Charter.. Ambassador Goldberg had shown on previous occasions that, where racial issues were involved, he practiced a double standard of morality in favor of Black demands.. Ambassador Goldberg was not alone in his fanatical hostility to White rule in Africa..' (Weyl pp 162-3).

Jews in South Africa in the main and those mentioned above in particular have all been pushing for a majoritarian government in which population numbers effectively mean that whites have no say over their own affairs. The new ANC-dominated South Africa is proclaimed to be a 'democracy', although a leading political scientist, Professor Hermann Giliomee has described the election system as a simple ethnic census. Whites, for example, have no effective power over the government as far as their own interests, such as schooling for their children or their language rights are concerned. The Constitutional Court, supposedly the custodian of these rights, has an over-representation of Jews who have shown little sympathy for white non-Jewish rights. Even the traditionally English South African game of cricket is being transformed - the Jewish former director of the cricket board, Dr Ali Bacher, did everything in his power to turn cricket in the country into a black-dominated sport.

There are various kinds of hypocrisy at work here. Authors such as Immanuel Suttner perhaps unwittingly communicate their clear belief that Jews are morally better than South African whites, because of their political stance. This in itself is not only racist but also not true. We can study the attitude of South African Jews to Middle Eastern issues to see whether they really do display a genuine moral superiority. Until a few years ago South African Jews gave more per capita to Israel than any other Jewish community in the world, including that of America (Suttner p. 420).

'When Ronnie Kasrils, a leader of the ANC's armed campaign against apartheid South Africa, returned home after 27 years in exile, he was lionized by a local Jewish establishment belatedly eager to associate itself with the struggle. His picture was put in the Jewish Museum in Cape Town and his name in the Book of Honor. The Jewish community basked in his reflected glory' (Fair Lady 22 May 2002 p.37). South Africa's Chief Rabbi Cyril Harris officiated at the funeral of Joe Slovo, calling Slovo 'a better Jew than most' (ibid p.39). Who was Slovo? He was general secretary of the Communist Party of South Africa and chief of staff of the armed terrorist wing of the ANC (African National Congress). When Kasrils, in an awkward position because of his cabinet post in the ANC government which includes several very influential Moslems, became one of a very small number of Jews to speak out against Israeli policies against the Palestinian people in Palestine, his name became mud. He signed a petition along with 286 other Jews to the effect that Israel's treatment of the Palestinians does not have their blessing. The South African Zionist Federation quickly organized a rival petition in support of Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon, and collected 11500 signatures. Helen Suzman, the veteran anti-Apartheid Jewish member of the South African parliament and consequently the recipient of numerous international honors and awards, 'believes that everything Israel has done has been retaliatory' (ibid p39) in spite of the fact that the Israelis, with support from Jews elswhere particularly in the US and its government, have been able to take over Palestine with absolute impunity, disregarding with absolute and violent contempt the lawful human and property rights of the Palestinians. This hypocrisy is very common, not to say dominant, in the Zionist community which forms the overwhelmingly dominant part of South African Jewry.

No candid discussion of the issues raised above was permitted to take place in South Africa before the fall of white rule owing to the ownership pattern of the newspaper cartel. There has been much talk of a 'Jewish Capitalist-Communist nexus' - we have to recognize that monopoly capital has an affinity with Communism. According to Antony Sutton (Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution) international bankers funded the Bolshevik Revolution. In 1917, Trotsky and 200 revolutionaries were literally transferred from New York's Lower East Side to St. Petersburg to foment the revolution in Russia. Jews are internationally synonymous with hyper-capitalism or monopoly-capitalism, where ever-greater financial power is continually being sought, and there is the impression that the hunger behind this urge is insatiable. Media control is an important part of this program, because criticism must be stifled at all costs. These powerful people are ever-seeking to instruct or coerce non-Jewish people of European ancestry in the direction of non-discrimination, but always supporting their own country with its fundamental racial discrimination whereby Palestinians born in Jerusalem have no rights, while even atheistic Jews born in Milwaukee or Miami have full citizenship rights in Israel.

The large reserves of gold, diamonds and other natural wealth attracted Jews in large numbers from Germany, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland and Russia. The discovery of gold in the Boer republic of the Transvaal turned out to be tragically unfortunate for the Boers. According to J A Hobson, an English liberal-socialist thinker and correspondent who reported on the Boer War, 'a little ring of international financiers', mainly Jews, led Britain into the war for their own selfish capitalist interests. (Hobson, The War in South Africa – its causes and effects (New York, Macmillan, 1900, pp194, 184, 190). Boer farms and towns were burnt to the ground. Boer women and children were herded into concentration camps, where 26 000 died through epidemics and unsanitary conditions. But the Jews gained a wonderful ascendancy in the gold and diamond industry, with leading names including Barney Barnato, Solly Joel and Lionel Phillips. Eventually the Oppenheimer family, with financial support from Rothschild interests, controlled not only the largest gold mines in the country but also the world diamond cartel De Beers and a very large part of the South African economy, as well as the English language newspaper monopoly. De Beers in recent decades has been often implicated in trading in 'blood-diamonds' from war zones in Africa. (The international diamond trade in New York and Amsterdam is also largely Jewish-controlled.) The Oppenheimer press cartel normally depicted white efforts in South Africa to find political self-determination, including the apartheid policy of parallel or separate development, as totally and utterly reprehensible and unacceptable. At the same time the cartel ensured that the Israeli State did not come in for parallel criticism for its incomparably inhumane and violent oppression of the native Palestinians. The Jews have found it useful to their ethnic agenda to exacerbate tensions between white and black in South Africa, with the clear objective of subverting the apartheid idea of ethnic self-determination for a situation in which non-Jewish whites would be subject to unfettered black political and social control. Since this goal has been achieved, Jews have been emigrating in large numbers, primarily to the United States. Although scornful of white non-Jews for racism during the apartheid era, none of these Jewish emigrants are known to have moved to any African country. As Immanuel Suttner says 'The Jewish community.. will likely continue to shrink through emigration, and those Jews who choose to stay in South Africa, and choose to involve themselves fully in South Africa's unfolding story, face a difficult period of redefining their role and finding a niche in which they believe they are relevant and useful.' (Cutting Through the Mountain p.4).

Why are Jews prominent as political activists in all western countries, but definitely not on behalf of the Palestinians, as fifty years of history have shown? Why were US Congressmen Stephen J. Solarz and Howard Wolpe, instrumental in securing financial sanctions against the South African apartheid regime, but 'unwavering in their commitments to Israel' (ex-Congressman Paul Findley, They Dare to Speak Out: People and Institutions Confront Israel's Lobby (1985) p70-71). Are hidden tribal-racial agendas a factor in "liberal" American universities and, above all, in politics?

Original Source: http://boerekryger.co.za/artikels_files ... FRICA.html

Also see: http://www.sunray22b.net/arthur_goldreich.htm

[youtube:3e2ojn64]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxusgNVH7zw[/youtube]3e2ojn64]

[Moe Foe]

Perhaps you could summarise what you are trying to get at?

You seem to be conflating South African Communism with with the ANC who while on the left are nationalists.  You seem to be confused overall.  If Jewish involvement is de-facto sinister and If your position is based on Jews being over represented within anti-apartheid movements then you have to apply the same standards to the Jews that supported and profited massively from  white supremacy and hegemony through either the Boers/Afrikaans and the British or a combination.  

I'll give you a good example, Sammy Marks.

Samuel Marks better known as Sammy Marks 1843 - 18 February 1920, was a South African industrialist and financier...Born the son of a Jewish tailor in 1843/44 at Neustadt-Sugind ...At the end of the Anglo-Boer War, he presented a cast-iron fountain to the city of Pretoria, shipped from Glasgow and very Edwardian in design, it stands at the Zoological Gardens. Marks commissioned the statue of Kruger on Church Square in Pretoria - sculpted by Anton van Wouw and cast in bronze in Europe, it carried a price tag of ₤10 000.

In 1898 Marks was allowed the extraordinary privilege of using the state mint for a day. He was awarded the Jewish Cross for his services to his race. Marks used the opportunity to strike 215 gold tickeys – three-penny pieces that were normally silver – as mementos for his relatives and friends, including President Kruger ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Kruger )and members of the Volksraad.



This famous incident says much about the close relationship that these two men had. There was often a blurring of the boundary between personal and State property. Their relationship was almost feudal, as that of a king and highly regarded subject. Besides President Kruger, Marks enjoyed the trust of the Boer Generals Botha, De Wet, and de la Rey, and the respect of Earl Roberts, Lord Kitchener, and Lord Milner,

I really don't know where you are coming from, unless you think that an immigrant minority should govern a native majority in their own homeland? That would make you anti-Nationalist. And if not, that resistance to oppression is impossible without Jewish agitation for whatever purposes?

[Whaler]

Moe Foe, It's simple. Jews didn't have the control/media white guilt propaganda in place to take out the white majority in SA when they started doing business there in the 1700 +1800's. By the 1980's they did and they made their move...The "nationalist" mantra is bogus because without the Boer white rule in that region of Africa, it wouldn't have been a prosperous nation in the first place. Probably a bunch of tribes warring with each other and cutting off each others heads... like every other hell hole in Africa untouched by whitey. Name me another industrial and civilized nation in Africa started by blacks. There isn't any. That's not any kind of indictment on blacks but it's just a statement of fact.

There are some right wing nationalist Jews that have allied with whites in SA because for the first time in history Jews feel a kinsman ship with nationalists. It hasn't been this way for 5,000 years. For the most part, they have been nation wreckers and revolutionaries that use their banking resources to corrupt and eventually dismantle Gentile rule. It's how they roll.

Israel is a totally unique experience for Jews. In the "olden days" 99% of the Jewish population would have been for the dismantling of white rule in SA because they have an instinctual jealousy and hatred for white Western Europeans. When most Jews made the jump from communism(but still Zionist) to Neoconservative fanatical Zionism, it was for purely selfish, ethnocentric reasons. It was good for Israel. (Jews)  That's really what these people are interested in. That's why the Mossad and Jew bankers did business with apartheid SA. Jews and Israel were just stealing from another white European country and taking military technology. Doesn't mean they weren't stabbing them in the back. Again...this is all verifiable standard Jewish behavior throughout history.

It doesn't have anything to do with Jews sticking up for the little guy and underdog. They don't give a shit about blacks.

[Whaler]

Moe Foe, It's simple. Jews didn't have the control/media white guilt propaganda in place to take out the white rule/leadership in SA when they started doing business there in the 1700 +1800's. By the 1980's they did and they made their move...The "nationalist" mantra is bogus because without the Boer white rule in that region of Africa, it wouldn't have been a prosperous nation in the first place. Probably a bunch of tribes warring with each other and cutting off each others heads... like every other hell hole in Africa untouched by whitey. Name me another industrial and civilized nation in Africa started by blacks. There isn't any. That's not any kind of indictment on blacks but it's just a statement of fact.

There are some right wing nationalist Jews that have allied with whites in SA because for the first time in history Jews feel a kinsman ship with nationalists. It hasn't been this way for 5,000 years. For the most part, they have been nation wreckers and revolutionaries that use their banking resources to corrupt and eventually dismantle Gentile rule. It's how they roll.

Israel is a totally unique experience for Jews. In the "olden days" 99% of the Jewish population would have been for the dismantling of white rule in SA because they have an instinctual jealousy and hatred for white Western Europeans. When most Jews made the jump from communism(but still Zionist) to Neoconservative fanatical Zionism, it was for purely selfish, ethnocentric reasons. It was good for Israel. (Jews)  That's really what these people are interested in. That's why the Mossad and Jew bankers did business with apartheid SA. Jews and Israel were just stealing from another white European country and taking military technology. Doesn't mean they weren't stabbing them in the back. Again...this is all verifiable standard Jewish behavior throughout history.

It doesn't have anything to do with Jews sticking up for the little guy and underdog. They don't give a shit about blacks.

btw... It's wayyyyy different then the situation in Palestine. Comparing the SA situation to Palestine is straight out of the Jewish communist handbook. International power broker Jews engineering two world wars to STEAL land and squat on a modern and established urban civilization is a bit different then hardy colonists actually creating and establishing a thriving civilization out of total wilderness....even if they were "raycisss".

[checkitb4uwreckit]

Moe Foe, It's simple. Jews didn't have the control/media white guilt propaganda in place to take out the white rule/leadership in SA when they started doing business there in the 1700 +1800's. By the 1980's they did and they made their move...The "nationalist" mantra is bogus because without the Boer white rule in that region of Africa, it wouldn't have been a prosperous nation in the first place. Probably a bunch of tribes warring with each other and cutting off each others heads... like every other hell hole in Africa untouched by whitey. Name me another industrial and civilized nation in Africa started by blacks. There isn't any. That's not any kind of indictment on blacks but it's just a statement of fact.

There are some right wing nationalist Jews that have allied with whites in SA because for the first time in history Jews feel a kinsman ship with nationalists. It hasn't been this way for 5,000 years. For the most part, they have been nation wreckers and revolutionaries that use their banking resources to corrupt and eventually dismantle Gentile rule. It's how they roll.

Israel is a totally unique experience for Jews. In the "olden days" 99% of the Jewish population would have been for the dismantling of white rule in SA because they have an instinctual jealousy and hatred for white Western Europeans. When most Jews made the jump from communism(but still Zionist) to Neoconservative fanatical Zionism, it was for purely selfish, ethnocentric reasons. It was good for Israel. (Jews)  That's really what these people are interested in. That's why the Mossad and Jew bankers did business with apartheid SA. Jews and Israel were just stealing from another white European country and taking military technology. Doesn't mean they weren't stabbing them in the back. Again...this is all verifiable standard Jewish behavior throughout history.

It doesn't have anything to do with Jews sticking up for the little guy and underdog. They don't give a shit about blacks.

btw... It's wayyyyy different then the situation in Palestine. Comparing the SA situation to Palestine is straight out of the Jewish communist handbook. International power broker Jews engineering two world wars to STEAL land and squat on a modern and established urban civilization is a bit different then hardy colonists actually creating and establishing a thriving civilization out of total wilderness....even if they were "raycisss".

Well said Whaler. :clap:  Couldn't have put it better myself.

What needs to be understood is that political action in any form by Jews is always motivated by hidden ethno-racial loyalties and agendas, no matter how much they try to mask it or spin it. The Communist Jews deliberately changed their names to Gentile names, and played a universalist tune promising a "utopian society" in order to sway "the mob" over to their side who were then mobilized to install the Jewish leaders of the movement into power whereby they were able to conduct their real agenda of theft, mass destruction and genocide.

Moe Foe does not understand Jews, what they do or what they're like. He is ignorant of the motives of Jews who support black causes, or at least is pretending to be. The motivation of Jewish support for black causes is not because they give a damn about blacks, but solely to undermine White Gentile rule, deracinate White societies and nations forged by White Europeans, so the Jews can replace White Gentiles as the rulers and owners of these nations. In the case of South Africa and Rhodesia, they simply did it out of spite and envious malice for White Europeans and then high-tailed it out of there in search of greener pastures. White nations have been the most prosperous nations and that's why Jews generally choose to live amongst Whites -- they go where the getting is good.  


Most of these South African Jews running the "anti-apartheid" crusade against White-rule in SA EMIGRATED out of the country after the blacks via the ANC took power. And NONE of them emigrated to another black-ruled African country, almost all of them jumped ship to America, a prosperous European-forged nation, where they are running the same subversive "undermine-Whitey" gambit full steam ahead. And nearly all of these Jewish "anti-apartheid" crusaders against White South Africa were staunch Zionists fully in support of the ongoing Jewish genocidal occupation of Palestine. That undermines Moe Foe's ridiculous and shill-like claim that these Jews actually care about oppressed people.

Moe Foe appears to be a typical anti-white subversive who is only against "Israel" because he wants to graft Israel under the category of "European imperialism" (since he probably equates Ashkenazi Jews as being mere "White people with a different religion"  :roll: ). If the Jews hadn't created Israel the way they did Moe Foe would be standing side by side with the Jews under the banner of Communism, seeking the destruction, annihilation and wealth acquisition of White Europeans.

[Moe Foe]

Moe Foe, It's simple. Jews didn't have the control/media white guilt propaganda in place to take out the white majority in SA when they started doing business there in the 1700 +1800's. By the 1980's they did and they made their move...

Firstly there has never been a "white majority" within the borders of modern day South Africa.  Secondly, Jews rode on the coattails of the original (Rothschild) Dutch East Company, there were Jews on the the very first ship that landed in the Cape and later on the (Rothschild) Rhodesian City of London industrialists and imperialists who fought and later consolidated power with the former.  There is no mystery here.  The Jews while not the overlords themselves were always positioned as the influential right-hand-men of the overlords, much as they had before and after all over the world.

The "nationalist" mantra is bogus because without the Boer white rule in that region of Africa, it wouldn't have been a prosperous nation in the first place. Probably a bunch of tribes warring with each other and cutting off each others heads... like every other hell hole in Africa untouched by whitey. Name me another industrial and civilized nation in Africa started by blacks. There isn't any. That's not any kind of indictment on blacks but it's just a statement of fact.

This is veering into Social Darwinism, eugenics and the like.  "Industrial" and "civilised" are not mutually exlusive terms.  Also, cultural and moral relativism need to be applied.  I am quite sure the Xhosa farmers were a lot better off and lived happier and fuller lives living off the land than when they were forcefully transferred from their rural lands to the cities and towns to live as sub-humans serving their white masters in menial jobs for a pittance.  This is anti-civilisation surely?

There are some right wing nationalist Jews that have allied with whites in SA because for the first time in history Jews feel a kinsman ship with nationalists. It hasn't been this way for 5,000 years. For the most part, they have been nation wreckers and revolutionaries that use their banking resources to corrupt and eventually dismantle Gentile rule. It's how they roll.  

Blacks are goyim just like whites are.  In fact I believe that the Babylonian Talmud describes black skin as a curse.  They would have absolutely no interest in overturning white power for black power in South Africa for two reasons 1) There was a system in place where the few already ruled the many.  The
few is obviously much easier to bribe, coerce, corral or otherwise manipulate.  2) They were already entrenched and influential if not already the tail wagging the dog within South Africa's white power structure.  For example, South Africa's three riches men, billionaires all ,  are all Jews to the best of my knowledge.  


DR ANTON RUPERT & RABBI MOSHE SILBERHAFT -
GRAAFF-REINET / SOUTH AFRICA - 1999



RABBI MOSHE SILBERHAFT & MR HARRY OPENHEIMER - KIMBERLEY / SOUTH AFRICA - 2001

and Donald Gordon  ( http://www.financial-inspiration.com/donald-gordon.html )

Israel is a totally unique experience for Jews. In the "olden days" 99% of the Jewish population would have been for the dismantling of white rule in SA because they have an instinctual jealousy and hatred for white Western Europeans. When most Jews made the jump from communism(but still Zionist) to Neoconservative fanatical Zionism, it was for purely selfish, ethnocentric reasons. It was good for Israel. (Jews)  That's really what these people are interested in. That's why the Mossad and Jew bankers did business with apartheid SA. Jews and Israel were just stealing from another white European country and taking military technology. Doesn't mean they weren't stabbing them in the back. Again...this is all verifiable standard Jewish behavior throughout history.

Regarding the illicit nuclear arms deals it was the other way round - Israel was offering to sell nuclear warheads to South Africa.  I do agree with you that likely the greatest single motivating factor, for these Jewish- Communists was what is good for Communism and/or Jewry.  It must be remembered that many of these Communist Jews were also anti-Zionist.  For example, Joe Slovo wrote this in an unfinished auto-biography.

"Within a few years the wars of consolidation and expansion began. Ironically enough, the horrors of the Holocaust became the rationalization for the preparation by Zionists of acts of genocide against the indigenous people of Palestine. Those of us who, in the years that were to follow, raised our voices publicly against the violent apartheid of the Israeli state were vilified by the Zionist press. It is ironic, too, that the Jew-haters in South Africa – those who worked and prayed for a Hitler victory – have been linked in close embrace with the rulers of Israel in a new axis based on racism."

Also, it must be put into context of the time.  The worldwide spread of Communism was financed and facilitated by a world superpower, Soviet Russia.  This is acompletely seperate issue from the liberation of black people in apartheid South Africa.  There was an alliance between the ANC and the Communists because time and place had drawn them together.  There was a symbiotic relationship but they were not a single entity by any means.  This is how Mandela put in his auto-biography:

the alliance of the African National Congress with the South African Communist Party he likens to the Allies' alliance with Stalin against Hitler and he writes: "Who is to say we were not using them?"
http://www.africafiles.org/article.asp?ID=3902

Point being that if close ties between Afrikaans and Jews can be shrugged off as "well...that's just parasites being parasitic" then the same must be able to be true when the tables are turned i.e. close ties between the anti-apartheid movement and Jews.

A final point is that there are as many, if not more Jews/Israelis who are firm supporters of the liberation of Palestine.  Wouldn't it  be ridiculous to think that in fifty years time their names could be used as evidence that Jews were behind any future Palestinian liberation?

It doesn't have anything to do with Jews sticking up for the little guy and underdog. They don't give a shit about blacks.

I would tend to agree when talking about "they" plural but I certainly don't agree that individual Jews are all incapable of empathy.

[Moe Foe]

btw... It's wayyyyy different then the situation in Palestine.

I disagree.  It is comparable to the situation in Palestine.  A colonialist "chosen" (by God) elite minority ruling over and excluding as citizens the indigenous majority population by force and dehumanisation.  It is not the same in practice in every aspect but it's foundations are the same - entitlement brought about by ethnocentric, supremacist ideals.

Comparing the SA situation to Palestine is straight out of the Jewish communist handbook.

Here I strongly disagree.  Denying  the comparisons is straight out of the Hasbara Handbook, (not that I accuse you of such of course). The respectable position of Israel is based on deception.  Part of the deception is in denying the apartheid nature of Israel.  It is in their interests to deny it.  I'll give you you two quotes to demonstrate this.  Both taken from here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/fe ... ica.israel

"The Jews took Israel from the Arabs after the Arabs had lived there for a thousand years. Israel, like South Africa, is an apartheid state,"

Hendrik Verwoerd, the South African prime minister and architect of the "grand apartheid"

"As you are undoubtedly aware, the pro-Palestinian and anti-semitic campaign to demonise Israel focuses on the entirely false and abusive analogy with South Africa. Using the term 'apartheid' to apply to Israel's legitimate responses to terror and the threat of annihilation both demeans the South African experience, and is the most immoral of charges against the right of the Jewish people to self-determination,"

A prominent Israeli political scientist, Gerald Steinberg

International power broker Jews engineering two world wars to STEAL land and squat on a modern and established urban civilization is a bit different then hardy colonists actually creating and establishing a thriving civilization out of total wilderness....even if they were "raycisss".

But there was people living in the lands the Boers wanted - The Xhosa's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xhosa_Wars

[Moe Foe]

-

[Moe Foe]

Well said Whaler. :clap:  Couldn't have put it better myself.

What needs to be understood is that political action in any form by Jews is always motivated by hidden ethno-racial loyalties and agendas, no matter how much they try to mask it or spin it. The Communist Jews deliberately changed their names to Gentile names, and played a universalist tune promising a "utopian society" in order to sway "the mob" over to their side who were then mobilized to install the Jewish leaders of the movement into power whereby they were able to conduct their real agenda of theft, mass destruction and genocide.

Moe Foe does not understand Jews, what they do or what they're like. He is ignorant of the motives of Jews who support black causes, or at least is pretending to be. The motivation of Jewish support for black causes is not because they give a damn about blacks, but solely to undermine White Gentile rule, deracinate White societies and nations forged by White Europeans, so the Jews can replace White Gentiles as the rulers and owners of these nations. In the case of South Africa and Rhodesia, they simply did it out of spite and envious malice for White Europeans and then high-tailed it out of there in search of greener pastures. White nations have been the most prosperous nations and that's why Jews generally choose to live amongst Whites -- they go where the getting is good.  


Most of these South African Jews running the "anti-apartheid" crusade against White-rule in SA EMIGRATED out of the country after the blacks via the ANC took power. And NONE of them emigrated to another black-ruled African country, almost all of them jumped ship to America, a prosperous European-forged nation, where they are running the same subversive "undermine-Whitey" gambit full steam ahead. And nearly all of these Jewish "anti-apartheid" crusaders against White South Africa were staunch Zionists fully in support of the ongoing Jewish genocidal occupation of Palestine. That undermines Moe Foe's ridiculous and shill-like claim that these Jews actually care about oppressed people.

Moe Foe appears to be a typical anti-white subversive who is only against "Israel" because he wants to graft Israel under the category of "European imperialism" (since he probably equates Ashkenazi Jews as being mere "White people with a different religion"  :roll: ). If the Jews hadn't created Israel the way they did Moe Foe would be standing side by side with the Jews under the banner of Communism, seeking the destruction, annihilation and wealth acquisition of White Europeans.

I've read this a number of times in an effort to try and extract something worth responding to.  The simple truth is that there is nothing.  It's spurious, hyperbolic nonsense, opinions stated as fact, unsourced "facts" and a few ad-homs and absurd strawmen thrown in for good measure. Honestly, all I am getting from you is  "four legs goooooood. Two legs baaaaaaad".

This claim for example "In the case of South Africa and Rhodesia, they simply did it out of spite and envious malice" is simplistic and naive to the exteme.

I'd just like to add that you seem rather biased on this topic and see the apartheid through rose tinted glasses.  Perhaps you could briefly explain whether apartheid rule was a postive/or negative and why?

[checkitb4uwreckit]

Even one of the leading Jewish Communists at the forefront of the crusade against apartheid in South Africa has admitted that apartheid Israel and South Africa under apartheid are hardly comparable:

In 2004, Ronnie Kasrils visited the Palestinian territories to assess the effect of Israel's assault on the West Bank two years earlier in response to a wave of suicide bombings that killed hundreds of people. "This is much worse than apartheid," he said. "The Israeli measures, the brutality, make apartheid look like a picnic. We never had jets attacking our townships. We never had sieges that lasted month after month. We never had tanks destroying houses. We had armoured vehicles and police using small arms to shoot people but not on this scale." http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/fe ... ica.israel

Kasrils speaks out against Israel because he doesn't want to appear to be a complete hypocrite.

One of Mandela's early comrades-in-arms was Arthur Goldreich, a Jewish terrorist member of the Haganah who fought in the Israeli "war of independence" to create IsraHell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Goldreich

The South African Jewish Community is one of the most zealously Zionist in the world http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... and_Israel

[checkitb4uwreckit]

I've read this a number of times in an effort to try and extract something worth responding to.

What your Jewish communist handbook ran out of excuses or justifications for Jewish subversive behavior? Jews are subversives always looking to undermine Gentile-rule and deracinate Gentile societies. They don't even need a reason for it. It is their very nature to do so. And when they say Gentile what they really mean is White European. Gentile is just a Jewish codeword for White European.

This claim for example "In the case of South Africa and Rhodesia, they simply did it out of spite and envious malice" is simplistic and naive to the exteme.

Most of the South African Jews were from the Talmudic ghettos of Eastern Europe where revolutionary-Zionism and revolutionary-Communism first emerged. Some went to Palestine to terrorize Arabs, others went to South Africa to terrorize Whites. None of them would have moved to South Africa if there were no Whites there. They came to plunder the nation that Whites built and then destroy it, as is their nature:

Deuteronomy 7:2: "And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor show mercy unto them."

"We Jews, we the destroyers, will remain the destroyers forever. Nothing that you will do will meet our needs and demands. We will forever destroy, because we need a world of our own, a God-world, which it is not in your nature to build." - Maurice Samuel, You Gentiles, Pg. 155

Like I said you just don't understand Jews, or are pretending not to understand them in an effort to deny their subversive actions against White Gentiles. And why would you want to deny that unless you are on their side?  :think:

[Whaler]

Firstly there has never been a "white majority" within the borders of modern day South Africa. Secondly, Jews rode on the coattails of the original (Rothschild) Dutch East Company, there were Jews on the the very first ship that landed in the Cape and later on the (Rothschild) Rhodesian City of London industrialists and imperialists who fought and later consolidated power with the former. There is no mystery here. The Jews while not the overlords themselves were always positioned as the influential right-hand-men of the overlords, much as they had before and after all over the world.

Wrong, there was a ruling majority in government. That's what I meant.

Jews were all over SA as parasites leeching off the hard work of gentiles. Not a shocker.

his is veering into Social Darwinism, eugenics and the like. "Industrial" and "civilised" are not mutually exlusive terms. Also, cultural and moral relativism need to be applied. I am quite sure the Xhosa farmers were a lot better off and lived happier and fuller lives living off the land than when they were forcefully transferred from their rural lands to the cities and towns to live as sub-humans serving their white masters in menial jobs for a pittance. This is anti-civilisation surely?

It's not veering into anything other than statement of fact. Now you want to turn the argument into whether blacks had a fair deal in Africa. Off topic and sneaky...desperate.

Blacks are goyim just like whites are. In fact I believe that the Babylonian Talmud describes black skin as a curse. They would have absolutely no interest in overturning white power for black power in South Africa for two reasons 1) There was a system in place where the few already ruled the many. The
few is obviously much easier to bribe, coerce, corral or otherwise manipulate. 2) They were already entrenched and influential if not already the tail wagging the dog within South Africa's white power structure. For example, South Africa's three riches men, billionaires all , are all Jews to the best of my knowledge.

You are delusional if you think most Jews supported white rule rule in SA. You are cherry picking some right wing ultra Zionists because that is the big bad enemy according to your world view. While ignoring the fact that a majority of Jews are liberals and have a very anti-white/ pro minority stance. There are Jews for the 2nd amendment and Jews against illegal immigration groups in the US, it doesn't mean that most Jews in the US are for the 2nd amendment. In fact most Jews in the US are raging liberals that want to grab all of the goyim guns and flood the borders with illegal immigration. The fact that you think these right wing whackos in Israel some how support your argument that Jews are pro white is laughable and misguided. Gives me the auto-Newbie Alert...but like I said, these right wing Israeli's are the enemy while the nice liberal Jews are your allies.  The facts of Jewish involvement/leadership are ridiculously evident yet you stubbornly refuse to accept the fact that Jews were indeed  in charge of your heroic undertaking to free the blacks from the evil white rule.  :roll:

 Your naive.

Blacks are goyim just like whites are. In fact I believe that the Babylonian Talmud describes black skin as a curse. They would have absolutely no interest in overturning white power for black power in South Africa for two reasons 1) There was a system in place where the few already ruled the many. The
few is obviously much easier to bribe, coerce, corral or otherwise manipulate. 2) They were already entrenched and influential if not already the tail wagging the dog within South Africa's white power structure. For example, South Africa's three riches men, billionaires all , are all Jews to the best of my knowledge.

Image
DR ANTON RUPERT & RABBI MOSHE SILBERHAFT -
GRAAFF-REINET / SOUTH AFRICA - 1999


Image
RABBI MOSHE SILBERHAFT & MR HARRY OPENHEIMER - KIMBERLEY / SOUTH AFRICA - 2001

and Donald Gordon ( http://www.financial-inspiration.com/donald-gordon.html )

Ok now your just posting stuff that I either
a)didn't even bring up
b)don't contest and have even stated that Jewish billionaires are all over SA.

So stop posting stuff like your showing me some new revelation. These don't support your argument at all that Jewish power wasn't behind the dismantling of white rule in SA. Your just posting irreverent links.

Regarding the illicit nuclear arms deals it was the other way round - Israel was offering to sell nuclear warheads to South Africa. I do agree with you that likely the greatest single motivating factor, for these Jewish- Communists was what is good for Communism and/or Jewry. It must be remembered that many of these Communist Jews were also anti-Zionist. For example, Joe Slovo wrote this in an unfinished auto-biography.

umm, I never brought up anything about an illicit arms deal so that's a massive straw man argument your setting up again. I don't like your debating tactics. You seem to be highly dishonest and sneaky. Jew-like.

[Whaler]

Also, it must be put into context of the time. The worldwide spread of Communism was financed and facilitated by a world superpower, Soviet Russia. This is acompletely seperate issue from the liberation of black people in apartheid South Africa. There was an alliance between the ANC and the Communists because time and place had drawn them together. There was a symbiotic relationship but they were not a single entity by any means. This is how Mandela put in his auto-biography:

The world wide spread of cummunism was foinaced by internaqtional Jewish bankers specifically the warburgs and Schiffs.

Soviet Russia. This is acompletely seperate issue from the liberation of black people in apartheid South Africa. There was an alliance between the ANC and the Communists because time and place had drawn them together.

I disagree. This was part of a plan of worldwide domination facilitated by Jewish bankers using the Soviet union/communism as a weapon against gentiles. It was another Bolshevik style revolution to remove the middle class bourgeois of SA and replace it with a more controllable and less intelligent(in the Jews opinion) ruling class....There is actually a history and pattern of behavior for my theory. Your theory is liberal hogwash and wishful thinking. Fantasy land.

Point being that if close ties between Afrikaans and Jews can be shrugged off as "well...that's just parasites being parasitic" then the same must be able to be true when the tables are turned i.e. close ties between the anti-apartheid movement and Jews.

A final point is that there are as many, if not more Jews/Israelis who are firm supporters of the liberation of Palestine. Wouldn't it be ridiculous to think that in fifty years time their names could be used as evidence that Jews were behind any future Palestinian liberation?

No, As I have stated before, the situations are quite different. Add to the fact that whites are being slaughtered by blacks in SA on a daily basis and not a freaking peep from the MSM about it. Yet if a rocket hits a Honda in Tel Aviv, the Jew media goes code red drama alert about it. Why does that make me a racist to be completely outraged at the SA genocide??? I could be a black dude for all you know.

 Apples and oranges. Jews own the media and therefore dictate what whites in Europe and America should care about. They have made the decision that the White genocide in SA is to be ignored because it's part of their anti-white agenda. You cherry pick some yahoo right wing Jews in Israel as an example of Jewish support for whites in SA. It's not going to fly. Fail.

Here I strongly disagree. Denying the comparisons is straight out of the Hasbara Handbook, (not that I accuse you of such of course). The respectable position of Israel is based on deception. Part of the deception is in denying the apartheid nature of Israel. It is in their interests to deny it. I'll give you you two quotes to demonstrate this. Both taken from here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/fe ... ica.israel

I guess you must think Gilad Atzmon is a Hasbarat then...
--------------------------------------------------------------
The European Colonial comparison to Israel is a flawed and bogus argument according to Gilad Atzmon

An Interview with Gilad Atzmon
by Silvia Cattori

Voltaire.net

Gilad Atzmon: I will tell you something that I really plan to write about. For many years our so-called "political analysts" have been talking about Israel being a "settler state" and Zionism being a "colonial project". But what kind of colonialism is it? Is it an accurate comparison?

For if Israel is a "settler state" – then what exactly is its "motherland"? In British and French colonial eras, the settler states maintained a very apparent tie with their "motherland". In some cases in history the settler state broke from its motherland. Such an event is a rather noticeable one, and the Boston Tea Party is a good example of that. But, as far as we are aware, there is no "Jewish motherland" that is intrinsically linked to the alleged "Jewish settler state".

The "Jewish people" are largely associated with the "Jewish state", and yet the "Jewish people" is not exactly a "material" autonomous sovereign entity. Moreover, native Hebraic Israeli Jews are not connected culturally or emotionally to any motherland except their own state.

Silvia Cattori: However, for some of the strongest advocates of the Palestinian rights, such as Ilan Pappe, Israel is a colonial State. They put forward this argument to challenge Israeli policies.

Gilad Atzmon: I am afraid that most activists and academics cannot tell the entire truth on this sensitive matter. Maybe no one can survive telling the truth. Indeed, we are daily terrorised by different measures from the thought police. I am convinced that most of the scholars who insist upon calling Israel a "settler state" are fully aware of the problems entangled with the "colonial paradigm". They must be aware of the uniqueness of the Zionist project. It is indeed true that Zionism manifests some symptoms that are synonymous with colonialism — however that is not enough: Zionism is inherently a racially oriented "homecoming" project driven by spiritual enthusiasms that are actually phantasmic. It intrinsically lacks many of the "necessary" elements that we understand as comprising colonialism, and cannot be defined in solely materialist terms.

It seems to me that here, we come across a crucial problem of understanding and analysis within our movement, and within Western intellectual discourse in general. Our academics are suppressed, and scholarship is silenced, for within the tyranny of political correctness, our academics are forced to primarily consider the boundaries of the discourse — they first examine carefully what they are allowed to say – and then they fill in the empty spaces, formulating theories or narratives.

This pattern is unfortunately common. Yet, such an approach and method is foreign to my understanding of truth-seeking and true scholarship.

It is crucial to mention at this point that I do not claim to know the truth. I just say what I believe to be the truth. If I am wrong, I welcome people to point it out to me.

It appears to me that "the Left" mislead us and itself by depicting Zionism solely as a colonial project. The "Left" likes the colonial paradigm because it locates Zionism nicely within their ideology. It also leads us to believe that the colonial/post-colonial political model provides some answers and even operative solutions; following the colonial template, we first equate Israel with South Africa, and then we implement a counter-colonial strategy, such as the BDS (Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions).

[Whaler]

"As you are undoubtedly aware, the pro-Palestinian and anti-semitic campaign to demonise Israel focuses on the entirely false and abusive analogy with South Africa. Using the term 'apartheid' to apply to Israel's legitimate responses to terror and the threat of annihilation both demeans the South African experience, and is the most immoral of charges against the right of the Jewish people to self-determination,"

Spoken like a politician desperately trying to save his country from the Jewish onslaught that he knew was coming. Trying to appeal to the Jew's pro Israel sensibilities. He is actually taking a subtle shot at the hypocritical Jews in media and trying to appeal to the "Joe Jew".

It didn't work.

[checkitb4uwreckit]

I really don't know where you are coming from, unless you think that an immigrant minority should govern a native majority in their own homeland? That would make you anti-Nationalist.

1) South Africa as a nation didn't exist before Whites got there and created it so it is not the "homeland" of blacks as you are implying.
2) You are pro-Nationalist and pro-Self Determination when it comes to Blacks and other non-Whites, yet you live in a European nation and have expressed a zealous pro-immigrant, anti-White Nationalist stance and have tried time and time again to sway me away from my White Nationalist leanings. You even tried to use the Norway shooting incident to convince me to "rethink" my pro-White Nationalist position and support the massive Third World invasion of all of Europe, North America and all formerly White nations. A massive, hypocritical double-standard. A Jew-like double standard.

MoFo's hypocritical ideology:
Africa for Africans
Asia for Asians
Middle-East for Semites
White nations for EVERYBODY

[checkitb4uwreckit]

I don't like your debating tactics. You seem to be highly dishonest and sneaky. Jew-like.

Indeed, Moe Foe does act and debate like a sneaky Jew. And he's a stalker too. Notice how he only ever shows up here to respond to something I posted and inject his liberal Jew, anti-white invectives.  :think:

[Moe Foe]

Even one of the leading Jewish Communists at the forefront of the crusade against apartheid in South Africa has admitted that apartheid Israel and South Africa under apartheid are hardly comparable:

In 2004, Ronnie Kasrils visited the Palestinian territories to assess the effect of Israel's assault on the West Bank two years earlier in response to a wave of suicide bombings that killed hundreds of people. "This is much worse than apartheid," he said. "The Israeli measures, the brutality, make apartheid look like a picnic. We never had jets attacking our townships. We never had sieges that lasted month after month. We never had tanks destroying houses. We had armoured vehicles and police using small arms to shoot people but not on this scale." http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/fe ... ica.israel

Yes it would appear that way if you quote him out of context.  The irony is that the speech he was arguing the Israeli and South African apartheid are very much comparable.

Ronnie Kasrils:

Parallels between Israeli and South African Apartheid  Colonialism and the dispossession of the indigenous people.


Ronnie Kasrils
Ronnie Kasrils began on an optimistic note by saying that Jews and Israelis, such as Ilan Pappe, are following in the footsteps of the small group of white South Africans who stood up for fairness and justice during the darkest days of the South African apartheid era. They may have been vilified at the time but later, when justice won out, they were praised; and similarly, he told Prof. Pappe, when justice wins out in the case of Palestine, your compatriots will take their hats off to you for speaking out against the Israeli regime.

Israel's parallels with the South African Apartheid government can be traced a long way back, said Mr. Kasrils. He read out a quote from 1961 and asked the audience if they could identify the person who said, "Israel, like South Africa, is an apartheid state." It was uttered by Dr Hendrick Verwoerd, the South African Prime Minister in the 1960s and the architect of apartheid. Verwoerd was able to make that comparison even as far back as 1961 because he could see the similarity, even then, of the ethnic, right-wing, nationalistic nature of both states. He also understood that both states are about "exclusivity" in the sense that they "exclude" the indigenous people. Israel is for Jews and apartheid South Africa under the Nationalist Party was for whites, regardless of the rights of the indigenous people. They are not considered to be citizens and they have no rights. The laws enacted by those in control provide a monopoly of power, rights and privilege to one group over another in both the ex-South Africa regime and in Israel. All colonial settlers deprive the indigenous people of their rights and expel them from their land. "Colonial genocide is horrific" he said. It took the Dutch and the English three centuries to achieve colonisation over South Africa but in Israel it has been much more swift. It is anachronistic that such colonialism took root in 1948, post-World War Two, and it is shocking that it still exists today in the twenty-first century.

The "chosen people".

Ronnie Kasrils said that the "chosen people" aspect is another stark similarity between the mindsets of the two regimes. The Boers [the term used to describe the white Afrikaners] used the same tactic that the Zionists have used.

[At this point in Mr. Kasrils' speech a Zionist heckler stood up and shouted "lies" and held up a banner of the Israeli flag with something along the lines of "lies" or "liars" scrawled across the front. He was then removed from the committee room by the police.]

Undaunted and in good humour, Mr. Kasrils continued with his analogy. According to both white South Africans at the time of apartheid and Zionist Israelis, each have a covenant with God who "acts as an agent of real estate" and decides to give these people such and such land regardless of its indigenous inhabitants.

He also expressed great concern about the racist ideology that is fed to children in schools as a result of this mentality. In relation to children in Zionists schools particularly he said "the extent to which they are being brainwashed today is actually quite frightening".

South African Apartheid "is like a picnic compared to what Palestinians are going through."
Any South African who goes to Palestine today and visits the West Bank and Gaza, or Palestinians living in the State of Israel, "come away shocked and, shaking their heads" saying "This is far worse than the apartheid we knew." South Africans in great numbers are saying, "What we went through is like a picnic compared to what Palestinians are going through."

Mr. Kasrils told the audience about a visit he once made to the West Bank in which he met with the late Palestinian President Yasser Arafat. Arafat told those gathered to look around and said that they would see that the West Bank was exactly like a South African Bantustan [apartheid-created "homelands" for the various tribes], to which Kasrils replied, "No President, it is not like a Bantustan." A surprised silence followed before he clarified his statement and said, "You see Mr President, the Bantustans in South Africa never had fences around them." He further differentiated between them by explaining that "tanks were never sent into the Bantustans". Yes, there were arrests, torture and murders, he told the audience, but as a result of police action, not as full-scale military operations sanctioned by the government. Furthermore, he continued, when there were curfews in South Africa, they may have lasted a weekend or a week, or two, or even six, but nothing like what we are seeing in the West Bank or Gaza. Gaza has now been under siege for over 1000 days! We "South Africans are appalled at what we see taking place."
http://www.middleeastmonitor.org.uk/art ... ie-kasrils

Kasrils speaks out against Israel because he doesn't want to appear to be a complete hypocrite.

This is more stating opinions as fact and to be perfectly honest is total nonsense.  

One of Mandela's early comrades-in-arms was Arthur Goldreich, a Jewish terrorist member of the Haganah who fought in the Israeli "war of independence" to create IsraHell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Goldreich

 :lol:  Who also makes the apartheid analogy.

According to The Guardian, Feb. 2006, Goldreich was living in the city of Herzliya. "There was a time when he believed the young Jewish state might provide the example of a better way for the country of his birth. As it is, Goldreich sees Israel as closer to the white regime he fought against and modern South Africa as providing the model. Israeli governments, he says, ultimately proved more interested in territory than peace, and along the way Zionism mutated.

"Goldreich speaks of the 'bantustanism we see through a policy of occupation and separation', the 'abhorrent' racism in Israeli society all the way up to cabinet ministers who advocate the forced removal of Arabs, and 'the brutality and inhumanity of what is imposed on the people of the occupied territories of Palestine'. 'Don't you find it horrendous that this people and this state, which only came into existence because of the defeat of fascism and Nazism in Europe, and in the conflict six million Jews paid with their lives for no other reason than that they were Jews, is it not abhorrent that in this place there are people who can say these things and do these things?' he asks."[4]

The South African Jewish Community is one of the most zealously Zionist in the world http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... _and_Israe l

For fucks sake lad, do you even read your own links???  This is contrary to everything you are saying!

South African Jews and Israel

When the Afrikaner-dominated National Party came to power in 1948 it did not adopt an anti-Jewish policy despite its earlier position. In 1953 South Africa's Prime Minister, D. F. Malan, became the first foreign head of government to visit Israel though the trip was a "private visit" rather than an official state visit.[10] This began a long history of cooperation between Israel and South Africa on many levels. The proudly Zionistic South African Jewish community, through such bodies as the South African Zionist Federation and a number of publications, maintained a cordial relationship with the South African government even though it objected to the policies of Apartheid being enacted. South Africa's Jews were permitted to collect huge sums of money to be sent on as official aid to Israel, in spite of strict exchange-control regulations. Per capita, South African Jews were reputedly the most financially supportive Zionists abroad.[11] During the 1980s Harry Schwarz, a prominent Jewish anti-Apartheid politician engaged in private meetings with Israeli Prime Minister's Shimon Peres and Yitzhak Shamir and was assured by them that Jews in South Africa would not become isolated and links between the Jewish community and Israel would be maintained.

[Moe Foe]

Most of the South African Jews were from the Talmudic ghettos of Eastern Europe where revolutionary-Zionism and revolutionary-Communism first emerged. Some went to Palestine to terrorize Arabs, others went to South Africa to terrorize Whites. None of them would have moved to South Africa if there were no Whites there. They came to plunder the nation that Whites built and then destroy it, as is their nature:

You seem to be confusing gold and diamonds with white skin.

Like I said you just don't understand Jews, or are pretending not to understand them in an effort to deny their subversive actions against White Gentiles. And why would you want to deny that unless you are on their side?  :think:

That's a false comparison.  If I don't agree with you I am on "their side".  Bollox. Everything really is black and white to you in your narrow-minded world innit'?

[Moe Foe]

It's not veering into anything other than statement of fact.

"Fact"
Well this was your statement:

The "nationalist" mantra is bogus because without the Boer white rule in that region of Africa, it wouldn't have been a prosperous nation in the first place. Probably a bunch of tribes warring with each other and cutting off each others heads... like every other hell hole in Africa untouched by whitey.

I'm sorry but that is a ridiculous statement.  It doesn't even resemble a "fact".  Correct me if I am wrong but you are saying black people, the indigenous population are not entitled to a homeland and self-determination because the Western imperialists  were more "modern" when they colonised their land.  That is the textbook definiton of Social Darwinism. You have not given a legitimate reason to demonstrate why African nationalism is "bogus".

Now you want to turn the argument into whether blacks had a fair deal in Africa. Off topic and sneaky...desperate.

Actually I don't but for what it's worth there is no argument whatsover.  Any fool can see that apartheid with the priveledged few ruling the many over the barrel of a gun is wrong.

You are delusional if you think most Jews supported white rule rule in SA.

I never said such a thing.

 

You are cherry picking some right wing ultra Zionists because that is the big bad enemy according to your world view. While ignoring the fact that a majority of Jews are liberals and have a very anti-white/ pro minority stance. There are Jews for the 2nd amendment and Jews against illegal immigration groups in the US, it doesn't mean that most Jews in the US are for the 2nd amendment. In fact most Jews in the US are raging liberals that want to grab all of the goyim guns and flood the borders with illegal immigration. The fact that you think these right wing whackos in Israel some how support your argument that Jews are pro white is laughable and misguided.

I never said that Jews are pro-white.  I think that supremacist Jews and supremacist whites are two sides of the same coin.  

Gives me the auto-Newbie Alert...but like I said, these right wing Israeli's are the enemy while the nice liberal Jews are your allies.  The facts of Jewish involvement/leadership are ridiculously evident yet you stubbornly refuse to accept the fact that Jews were indeed  in charge of your heroic undertaking to free the blacks from the evil white rule.  :roll:

 Your naive.

Naive??? You haven't given me a single reason to accept it.  I've stated repeatedly that the ANC and the SA African Communist Party whilst allies are seperate entitys.  Was the Communist Party run by Jews in SA? Largely yes.  Did they have a common enemy? Yes.  Did they have seperate reasons to fight? Yes.  Is it guilt by assoication? Yes.  Is it a red herring? Yes.

umm, I never brought up anything about an illicit arms deal so that's a massive straw man argument your setting up again. I don't like your debating tactics. You seem to be highly dishonest and sneaky. Jew-like.

Well I was responding to this claim:

That's why the Mossad and Jew bankers did business with apartheid SA. Jews and Israel were just stealing from another white European country and taking military technology. Doesn't mean they weren't stabbing them in the back

[/quote][/quote]
The fact that Israel was trying to maneauver an illegal nuclear arms deal where Israel gave nuclear warheads to South Africa shows the extent of the love they had for each other.  BTW...That's the first time I've seen South Africa referred to as a "European country".

[Moe Foe]

Also, it must be put into context of the time. The worldwide spread of Communism was financed and facilitated by a world superpower, Soviet Russia. This is acompletely seperate issue from the liberation of black people in apartheid South Africa. There was an alliance between the ANC and the Communists because time and place had drawn them together. There was a symbiotic relationship but they were not a single entity by any means. This is how Mandela put in his auto-biography:

The world wide spread of cummunism was foinaced by internaqtional Jewish bankers specifically the warburgs and Schiffs.

Soviet Russia. This is acompletely seperate issue from the liberation of black people in apartheid South Africa. There was an alliance between the ANC and the Communists because time and place had drawn them together.

I disagree. This was part of a plan of worldwide domination facilitated by Jewish bankers using the Soviet union/communism as a weapon against gentiles. It was another Bolshevik style revolution to remove the middle class bourgeois of SA and replace it with a more controllable and less intelligent(in the Jews opinion) ruling class....There is actually a history and pattern of behavior for my theory. Your theory is liberal hogwash and wishful thinking. Fantasy land.

I don't think you realise how in the grand scheme of things how completely insignificant the Boers actually were.  True, they were an anamoly compared to how imperialist misadventures normally play out but they were of no interest until they found their gold and diamonds.  It was just a case of big fish eats little fish when the Boers were fighting the natives and again when the British attacked the Boers.  What you also fail to realise is that apartheid, injustice etc creates it's own resistance.  Do you think people like living in filth unable to put food proper food on the family table, having childred dying of curable diseases and so on purely because the colour of their skin?  Now take into consideration the fact that this excluded native minority makes up 4/5ths of the population.  Do you think that any Jewish intervention is necessary for these people to want to rise up`?  Cos' your talking like you are.

The Jewish intervention comes in via the South African Communist Party.  NOT THE ANC.  Seperate entities with seperate goals and largely seperate members list.  This is not a theory but a fact.  Your theory ignores the will of 80% of the population. The historically strong push factors of freedom and equality.  
 In fact, it completely ignores their very existence.   You seem to see it as a battle between the white man and the Jew with black mercenaries on the front lines fighting for the Jews to crush the noble white masters meanwhile you are oblivious to the natives own fight via the ANC.  I can't begin to describe how ludicrous this is.

Point being that if close ties between Afrikaans and Jews can be shrugged off as "well...that's just parasites being parasitic" then the same must be able to be true when the tables are turned i.e. close ties between the anti-apartheid movement and Jews.

A final point is that there are as many, if not more Jews/Israelis who are firm supporters of the liberation of Palestine. Wouldn't it be ridiculous to think that in fifty years time their names could be used as evidence that Jews were behind any future Palestinian liberation?

No, As I have stated before, the situations are quite different.?

Okay,  but that in itself means nothing.  Stating it twice, likewise.  

 

Add to the fact that whites are being slaughtered by blacks in SA on a daily basis and not a freaking peep from the MSM about it. Yet if a rocket hits a Honda in Tel Aviv, the Jew media goes code red drama alert about it. Why does that make me a racist to be completely outraged at the SA genocide??? I could be a black dude for all you know.  

1. I don't think your a racist
2.I don't care if your black or not.
3. Blacks are also killing blacks inside and outside South Africa every day.  Whites are killing blacks.  Whites are killing whites etc.  It's called crime.  Not every murder that takes place in the whole world can be on your North American evening news.  That's what local news is for.

 

Apples and oranges. Jews own the media and therefore dictate what whites in Europe and America should care about. They have made the decision that the White genocide in SA is to be ignored because it's part of their anti-white agenda. You cherry pick some yahoo right wing Jews in Israel as an example of Jewish support for whites in SA. It's not going to fly. Fail.

When Terre Blanche was killed it was front page news here http://www.google.se/#sclient=psy-ab&hl ... 80&bih=541.  So this media supposed media blackout  doesn't cut it-

I guess you must think Gilad Atzmon is a Hasbarat then...

Well no, not at all actually but here you are apparently missing the point again. My point is not that apartheid SA was a great and life for Palestinians is bad relatively.  It is that life (for the exluded) in apartheid SA was horrific yet life in the occupied territories is even yet worse on the scale of horrificness.  Therefore the analogy is valid.

[checkitb4uwreckit]

Nice sig MoFo. Anti-White and proud I see.

Say, when are you making the trip to Africa to join the "black struggle"? Or will you continue to live on the backs of Europeans while you openly support their demise?

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

So, Moe Foe ain't white nationalist, Big deal. At least he is reasonable and speaks like an adult.

[checkitb4uwreckit]

So, Moe Foe ain't white nationalist, Big deal. At least he is reasonable and speaks like an adult.

You are mistakenly under the impression that your opinion matters.  

[Whaler]

'm sorry but that is a ridiculous statement. It doesn't even resemble a "fact". Correct me if I am wrong but you are saying black people, the indigenous population are not entitled to a homeland and self-determination because the Western imperialists were more "modern" when they colonized their land. That is the textbook definition of Social Darwinism. You have not given a legitimate reason to demonstrate why African nationalism is "bogus".

Yes I have and anyone reading this thread can go back and read my explanation. Your Jew-bot lies are not going to cut it.

I never said such a thing.

You are implying that most Jews' political views and aspirations are somehow different than the Jewish elite. I beg to differ. I would say that a majority of Jews take their cue from the top and are brainwashed. More so than white Christians. In fact, Jews instinctively know that there is a potential of a backlash when whites are in a ruling majority because they have experienced it 109 times....and they don't forgive and forget. Apparently you do though....which Is why whites have come under repeated attacks from this pit of vipers. Thanks to bleeding hearts like Moe Foe.

I never said that Jews are pro-white. I think that supremacist Jews and supremacist whites are two sides of the same coin.

You lump in anyone that acknowledges any kind of white-ethnic self interest with being a supremacist.  While hypocritically championing any non-white agenda.

Naive??? You haven't given me a single reason to accept it. I've stated repeatedly that the ANC and the SA African Communist Party whilst allies are separate entity. Was the Communist Party run by Jews in SA? Largely yes. Did they have a common enemy? Yes. Did they have seperate reasons to fight? Yes. Is it guilt by assoication? Yes. Is it a red herring? Yes.

wrong, you have given me several reasons to believe you are an incocrinated mind slave.

The fact that Israel was trying to maneauver an illegal nuclear arms deal where Israel gave nuclear warheads to South Africa shows the extent of the love they had for each other. BTW...That's the first time I've seen South Africa referred to as a "European country".

Nuclear weapons/secrets that they stole from white European nations and then used for currency to improve their own interests. It has nothing to with love for SA. It was a straightforward arms deal. Israel(Jews) dominate the blackmarket arms market and will sell and work with anyone as long as it fulfills their ultimate goal. Again, the SA's were allying with Israel because they thought(wrongly) it would save them from the Jew commie scum that was aiming for them. They didn't realize that no matter what political ideology a Jew has, they will always be on Team Jew. A lesson that you haven't even begun to understand because you are indoctrinated into a false paradigm .

I don't think you realise how in the grand scheme of things how completely insignificant the Boers actually were. True, they were an anamoly compared to how imperialist misadventures normally play out but they were of no interest until they found their gold and diamonds. It was just a case of big fish eats little fish when the Boers were fighting the natives and again when the British attacked the Boers. What you also fail to realise is that apartheid, injustice etc creates it's own resistance. Do you think people like living in filth unable to put food proper food on the family table, having childred dying of curable diseases and so on purely because the colour of their skin? Now take into consideration the fact that this excluded native minority makes up 4/5ths of the population. Do you think that any Jewish intervention is necessary for these people to want to rise up`? Cos' your talking like you are.

FFS, Stop saying "natives". South Africa is a hodge podge of tribes from all over Africa. You seem to want to say that any black is a native of South Africa. It's simplistic. It's literally a black and white issue for you. Blacks=goodguys + whites=evil imperialists.

South African whites were the backbone of SA. It's the Jews that are insignificant. The Jews wouldn't exist if it weren't for white europeans setting up civilizations for them to mooch off. Add to the fact that Ashkenazi Jews look white so they can blend and infiltrate(NOT BUILD) a functioning society.  The Boers are the most significant part of this subject. It's the Jews that are insignificant in terms of actual nation building. They are parasites...useless.  By the 20th century they(Jews) had their pieces in place to pull of their popular uprising and dislodge the white rule from Africa while maintaining their own power.(JUST LIKE THEY ALWAYS DO! WAKE THE F*CK UP!) It's amazing that you don't see the pattern of behavior.

  In other words....

 Jews need the whites to actually set up a working civilized country. Something the Jews have never done because its not in there hardware to do so....and as much as it pains me to say, it's not in the black's hardware either.

The Jewish intervention comes in via the South African Communist Party. NOT THE ANC. Seperate entities with seperate goals and largely seperate members list. This is not a theory but a fact. Your theory ignores the will of 80% of the population. The historically strong push factors of freedom and equality.
In fact, it completely ignores their very existence. You seem to see it as a battle between the white man and the Jew with black mercenaries on the front lines fighting for the Jews to crush the noble white masters meanwhile you are oblivious to the natives own fight via the ANC. I can't begin to describe how ludicrous this is.

Well yeah Genius, If you want to start a popular uprising it might be a good idea to team up with the actual group/race you want to replace the current system with. It would look kinda ridiculous if Jews just started demanding the end to white rule without an alternative other than Jewish rule. Its probably not registering in your kindergarten-like understanding of Jewish intrigue.

When Terre Blanche was killed it was front page news here http://www.google.se/#sclient=psy-ab&hl ... 80&bih=541. So this media supposed media blackout doesn't cut it-

and why do you think that was? They(Jew media) were clearly rejoicing in the fact that a "virulent racist" got murdered by his own black farm hands. Are you effing kidding me? I remember the coverage and it was wall to wall "evil racist got what was coming to him" Man, you really are living in another world.  :crazy:  :crazy:  :crazy:

brb...with the rest

[checkitb4uwreckit]

I never said that Jews are pro-white. I think that supremacist Jews and supremacist whites are two sides of the same coin.

You lump in anyone that acknowledges any kind of white-ethnic self interest with being a supremacist.  While hypocritically championing any non-white agenda.

I know eh, Moe Foe champions any non-white nationalism, yet is openly anti-white nationalist and admitted that he volunteers or works at some place that helps non-white immigrants settle in the European country he is helping the Jews destroy. Jews are comfortable flaunting these kinds of outrageous double-standards. They're arrogantly rubbing it in our faces these days.

[Whaler]

I never said that Jews are pro-white. I think that supremacist Jews and supremacist whites are two sides of the same coin.

You lump in anyone that acknowledges any kind of white-ethnic self interest with being a supremacist.  While hypocritically championing any non-white agenda.

I know eh, Moe Foe champions any non-white nationalism, yet is openly anti-white nationalist and admitted that he volunteers or works at some place that helps non-white immigrants settle in the European country he is helping the Jews destroy. Jews are comfortable flaunting these kinds of outrageous double-standards. They're arrogantly rubbing it in our faces these days.

Yeah, It might be too late to save Moe Foe. The Jew-force is strong with this one. No amount of reasoning or evidence will sway him.

He wants to criticize Israel because deep down he knows it's the right thing to do. The Jews have provided him plenty of venues for Jew-friendly anti zionist resources and now he feels like he has it all figured out. He has been able to keep his liberal/white genocide agenda going while at the same time mildly opposing Israel  

Now, in his infinite wisdom he is coming to TIU to chase off the 'raycissstts' and make sure his anti-white agenda(instincts) are fulfilled.

[Moe Foe]

Yes I have and anyone reading this thread can go back and read my explanation.

Your explanation that black nationalism is South Africa is "bogus"  is that  the people of the land weren't "prosperous" pre-colonialism.  Not only is that not  an explanation it's a nonsensical statement .

Your Jew-bot lies are not going to cut it.

I haven't lied...anywhere

You are implying that most Jews' political views and aspirations are somehow different than the Jewish elite.

Nope, some Jews.  This is common sense.

I beg to differ. I would say that a majority of Jews take their cue from the top and are brainwashed. More so than white Christians.

Agreed.

In fact, Jews instinctively know that there is a potential of a backlash when whites are in a ruling majority because they have experienced it 109 times....

This is laughable.  Jews prop up or indirectly control most white majorities in existence.  They can't get enough of them.

and they don't forgive and forget. Apparently you do though....which Is why whites have come under repeated attacks from this pit of vipers. Thanks to bleeding hearts like Moe Foe.

This is emotive nonsense unworthy of a response.

You lump in anyone that acknowledges any kind of white-ethnic self interest with being a supremacist.  While hypocritically championing any non-white agenda.

In your own head maybe I do but I can assure you that I do not.  I like to try to think for myself and judge each cases on it's own merits.  We are discussing South Africa here.  White people have no historical, reasonable moral or ethical claim to be sole rulers of South Africa.  Or do you disagree?

wrong, you have given me several reasons to believe you are an incocrinated mind slave.  

Overall I have no idea why your lashing out because I am disagreeing with you.  Here, however, I can see where you are going with the insults.  I stated you haven't given any reasons -- you haven't btw -- you then say I am "wrong" and follow up with an insult.  No more, no less.

Nuclear weapons/secrets that they stole from white European nations and then used for currency to improve their own interests. It has nothing to with love for SA. It was a straightforward arms deal.

No it wasn't.  It was illegal negotiations.

Israel(Jews) dominate the blackmarket arms market and will sell and work with anyone as long as it fulfills their ultimate goal.  

Hang on! I thought your argument was that the "ultimate goal" was the overthrow of the white regime??? They do this by selling them nuclear warheads; the ultimate defensive weapon.

Again, the SA's were allying with Israel because they thought(wrongly) it would save them from the Jew commie scum that was aiming for them.

I'm sorry but this is another asinine statement.  You honestly think that the white ruling elite thought they would "save" themselves from revolutionary Jews aiding and abetting their demise by turning to Israel for assistance? Surely.  Surely.  Surely you can't honestly believe this?

They didn't realize that no matter what political ideology a Jew has, they will always be on Team Jew. A lesson that you haven't even begun to understand because you are indoctrinated into a false paradigm .  

Are you even aware yourself how self-contradictory you are?  

Your premise is that Jews are trying to take over white South Africa through the front of Communism. South Africans ally themselves with the Jewish State, Israel  to combat the Jewish internal threat.    The South African whites joined this alliance with Jews becuase they thought it would save them from Jews   .  The Israeli Jews then joined the alliance and actively tried to illegally sell to the South African state (i.e. the very same one they were actively trying destroy!).  So on the one hand the white SA's figured out the Jewish/Communist threat but in your view they couldn't extend that to Israel and thought that they'd make good partners  

FFS, Stop saying "natives". South Africa is a hodge podge of tribes from all over Africa. You seem to want to say that any black is a native of South Africa. It's simplistic. It's literally a black and white issue for you. Blacks=goodguys + whites=evil imperialists.

They are natives.  They are the indigenous population and are therefore natives of the land.  No use getting angry with me.  It's a dictionary definiton and proper usage of the terminology.  If this is an uncomfortable truth for you it is not my concern.

South African whites were the backbone of SA.  

Correction: South African whites were the backbone of apartheid SA.  Even then that's not even true and it couldn''t have existed without blacks doing the toilet cleaning, road sweeping etc.  

 

It's the Jews that are insignificant. The Jews wouldn't exist if it weren't for white europeans setting up civilizations for them to mooch off. Add to the fact that Ashkenazi Jews look white so they can blend and infiltrate(NOT BUILD) a functioning society.  The Boers are the most significant part of this subject. It's the Jews that are insignificant in terms of actual nation building. They are parasites...useless.  By the 20th century they(Jews) had their pieces in place to pull of their popular uprising and dislodge the white rule from Africa while maintaining their own power.(JUST LIKE THEY ALWAYS DO! WAKE THE F*CK UP!) It's amazing that you don't see the pattern of behavior.

  In other words....

 Jews need the whites to actually set up a working civilized country. Something the Jews have never done because its not in there hardware to do so....and as much as it pains me to say, it's not in the black's hardware either.  

Well the above is not strictly true.  As I've said the Afrikaaners came aboard Rothschild's ships.  Cecil Rhodes was a Rotschild puppet and led the British inroads.  The Jews were dominating the "white" economy all through these periods.  Take a look at this list of the leading South African industrialists http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randlord . More than every second one is Jewish.  

Well yeah Genius, If you want to start a popular uprising it might be a good idea to team up with the actual group/race you want to replace the current system with. It would look kinda ridiculous if Jews just started demanding the end to white rule without an alternative other than Jewish rule. Its probably not registering in your kindergarten-like understanding of Jewish intrigue.

I'm well aware of Jewish intrigue.  It should not replace common sense.  Why on earth would the Jews want to replace white power with black power when the white power structure was already in the palm of their hands?  Why would they want to replace the elite few who they've already utterly corrupted with an unknown and unpredictable X factor  with the popular support of millions?

and why do you think that was?

Because it was newsworthy.  It's really quite simple.  He was a public figure.

They(Jew media) were clearly rejoicing in the fact that a "virulent racist" got murdered by his own black farm hands. Are you effing kidding me? I remember the coverage and it was wall to wall "evil racist got what was coming to him" Man, you really are living in another world.  :crazy:  :crazy:  :crazy:

It's a pity you didn't remember it when you were crying "media blackout".  This completely refutes that.  Let's not move the goalposts.

[Moe Foe]

They're arrogantly rubbing it in our faces these days.

You should stay out of the gay clubs then.

[Moe Foe]

Yeah, It might be too late to save Moe Foe. The Jew-force is strong with this one. No amount of reasoning or evidence will sway him.

He wants to criticize Israel because deep down he knows it's the right thing to do. The Jews have provided him plenty of venues for Jew-friendly anti zionist resources and now he feels like he has it all figured out. He has been able to keep his liberal/white genocide agenda going while at the same time mildly opposing Israel  

Now, in his infinite wisdom he is coming to TIU to chase off the 'raycissstts' and make sure his anti-white agenda(instincts) are fulfilled.

1. You've shown very little reasoning and zero evidence.
2. I don't think I have anything figured out.  My only purpose on this site is to learn.  The last thing I wanted was to get bogged down in an argument.  MSMD is only a kid so his hormones are probably at him but I was hoping that we could've had a healthy and frank discussion.   I am more than aware that my knowledge of SA is essentially nil beyond the surface.  I certainly don't claim to have it figured out.  
3. I don't consider myself a liberal and the claim that I am in support of "white genocide" is paranoid and delusional.
4. If your done discussing this topic we'll leave it at that.  Your insults are water off a ducks back but I have better things to do with my time than try to have a conversation with someone who doesn't know how to have one ala MSMD with strawmen and ad hom's when their cognitive dissonance kicks in.  So if you could let me know if you want to continue the discussion.

[Moe Foe]

So, Moe Foe ain't white nationalist, Big deal. At least he is reasonable and speaks like an adult.