Caroline Yeager VS Charles Giuliani

[Michael K.]

Dearest checkitb4uwreckit:

I can't help but notice that you are gone for a month, and when you return it's not with research and evidence to contribute, but with an axe to grind over something which can't be settled, something you can't win, in short vanity.

But let's take a good look at some of the inconsistencies in your whole approach:  

1.)  You are now working Real Jew News, a Christian-run and supported website.

http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=656#comment-342266

 You don't seem so eager to show them your real face there.  Why don't you ask them to explain Christ to you, so that you can finally believe?  I'm sure that they would be delighted.

2.)  Rather than use the old "invisible cat" straw man to refute the existence of God, why don't you step right up to a mirror for some real proof - see, that's God's image and likeness that you have.  You are intelligent, can think, feel, know and create. If these traits appear in mere earth man, who came out of the clay and mud (where they are not, by the way, ever found in nature), then they must pre-exist the emergence of them in man, somewhere else in a more perfect and much earlier way.  Otherwise you are reasoning that intelligence naturally comes from mud, which anyone would be skeptical over.  So everything you take for granted as your natural mind is really a gift from your eternal Father who created you to have godlike intelligence.  Yet you don't see vast intelligence as necessary to have made you exist from mud and ooze in the first place, just accident and coincidence?

3.)   Your real problem, I sense, is that you are struggling to understand why God allows evil in the world, even creates evil in the first place, if He is a good and loving God.  Based on the disappointment and confusion you feel, you reject God entirely like a child who runs away from his parents because they did something he thinks is wrong.   The answer is that when God created free will, He created evil.  Because only free willed intelligence can do other that what God programs it to do by nature.  

What God is trying to get is a loving relationship that is real, because it is freely chosen.  In risking the creation of something that could reject His will, God knew that evil would result in some cases, and that this would be the price.  Yet He came as Jesus Christ and took that price on Himself, since He created the problem in the first place, and in so doing He provided the solution for those who love Him and His good and life-giving ways.   And He promised to return and finish the job for the sake of restoring the earth and its few loving inhabitants to their original beauty and peace.

Do not think that God is slow in bringing justice to this world, for you know that if He is really God He would do so and He hasn't.  But a thousand years is as a day to God, and a day as a thousand years.  He withholds for the sake of mercy to give all time to repent before He returns in judgment.  As above, so below.  If man has intelligence, heaven has intelligence; if man has armies, heaven has armies; if man has judges, heaven has judges; and if man has victory over his enemies, so God will have His victory in His time, and all that love Him will have a part in the celebration of that new day after the earth is cleansed and purified.

God bless you and give you peace and faith to carry the burden that is on your heart.

[Anonymous]

Zionist Sniper, they keep believing because they want to believe that a super being loves them and that they are going to heaven. They won't give up their jew created fantasies. Also they have been programmed with the belief that if they do not believe they will goto hell and I have heard pastors even recommending as a tactic to suggest that even if there was a 1 out of 100 chance that hell is real it would be wise to become christian since a gamble on a lifetime is infinitesimal compared to infinity in hell and they claim there is no point to life without christ anyway....

[youtube:o9scj6ip]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaXvoliJyEo[/youtube]o9scj6ip]

[Anonymous]

bluejelly,

Oh I completely understand what they believe in, why they have the need to believe in it, where they believe its going to get them and where they got all these stupid ideas.

I also understand where its actually going to get them if they keep believing in this garbage.

Bottom line:
NO MORE use of descriptions like zionist or Frankist or whatever. JEW, JEW, JEW, JEW, JEW. Thats it, period. John Kaminski is dead on with that point. STOP IT.

The evidence to all of this has been amassed for thousands of years and today is widely available. Assuming you don't get distracted with bullshit like Frankists and religion. FECK !!!!!

Now, at this point anyone using any other term than JEW is:
#1: ignorant to the evidence
#2: afraid
#3: doing it on purpose

JEW. Done.

(and yes I know my screen name is Zionist Sniper so save the BS. I'll check profile right now and see if that can be changed). - edit: just checked, doesn't look like it can be.

The only thing that needs to be addressed by those that are truly jew wise is how to take these people out. Any thing else is:

#1: distraction
#2: needing to hear one's self talk

However DBS might just be correct. We just might have let them get too far with technology to have made this impossible at this point.

JEW, TAKE OUT, OR YOUR DEAD. SOON. DONE.

Do you fools get it now or do I have to quote myself. Holy feckin' cow. ARGH .

ZS

[pas]

ZS wrote:

JEW, TAKE OUT, OR YOUR DEAD. SOON. DONE.

Exactly the position i've come to.
It's like Norman Dodd said (i believe):''We have over-analyzed the problem".In other words, we talk too much and act too little.

Appreciate your input, ZS and i share your frustrations.

[Michael K.]

All theology aside, and speaking only of the facts about strategy that are self-evident to the wisdom of a man of the world, placing yourself in a position where your one remaining option is attack with intent to murder, you have already lost the war.

I say that the ultimate resistance is to take up the cause of the new technology which has a capacity to keep us alive and free if we master it soon enough.  I say we fight a good fight with the tools we have, not to kill but to live.  If we fight to live and be free men on the land, getting our existence from the gifts of nature with wisdom and skill, we will become unassailable on that great day when the cities burn and the enemy occupies our shores to finish us off.

You don't have to look for the fight or go get in the face of the Jews.  You will literally get made out as something completely hate-able by their media for your possibly heroic resistance, and your cause will never be understood by the people.  You will do more harm than good if you attack: their power over the people is multiplied by being able to present themselves as normal people being victimized by rabid scum.  And then they will have a perfect pretext to escalate against the innocent.

They are planning to bring the ground war to you for real some day by setting up Americans to take the combined outrage of the world for their sakes as the new UN, united under National Bolshevism, the Middle Path, and/or Communitarianism, comes together to torch and rape the Capitalist Babylon, in part the end result of so many of America's Christians taking up the spurious cause of Zionism as martyrs.   Many would be better served to figure out how to master energy production and alternative medicine for the day when everybody making their own and doing it themselves will be the only way to survive the times.

They will hold power centrally until central power is no longer existent, then our freedom from our oppressor will be at least possible, but at the cost of pure survival without Babylon and in the face of invaders.  One line of Jews in the West will fail and the other in the East will prosper after much waiting, but at the end of the day they are pre-ordained to be the ghost in the machine of the World until the end of things.  May our land someday be free.

[checkitb4uwreckit]

Rather than use the old "invisible cat" straw man to refute the existence of God

It's not a straw man. It's a perfect comparison that you can't deal with. Do you believe in invisible leprechauns? If not, why not? I assume you disbelieve in Leprechauns, yet you believe there is an invisible man in the sky who is omniscient and omnipotent that can form celestial bodies at the snap of a finger, yet can't even appear to you to prove he is real. The evidence for invisible leprechauns and an invisible man in the sky is not qualitatively different, but you believe in one and not the other. That's the fundamental hypocrisy of theists. Give me the reasons why you don't believe in invisible leprechauns.

why don't you step right up to a mirror for some real proof - see, that's God's image and likeness that you have.

How is that proof the Judeo-Christian god of the bible exists? All that is proof of is that I exist. If I am in god's image and likeness then what about Blacks, Asians, Arabs, etc, who don't look like me, are they also in god's image? How can that be possible? What about animals, plants, bacteria and microbes? They are all living things, are they also in god's image? And, for example, say I was born with a giant tumor on my face... are you claiming I was born in god's image? OR what about twins who are born with their heads stuck together, or other horrible deformities, do these deformities also represent god's image and likeness?  He created everything (according to Christians) so he would have had to have purposely created those horrible deformities.

The reason Christians make that claim that humans are created in god's image and likeness is because they have made "god" a man and have given him humanly characteristics. That's called personification and humans have done that with every fictional god they have invented. The god of the bible has petty human emotions like jealousy, vengeful, angry, etc. That's because MAN invented god in the image of man, not the other way around.

You are intelligent, can think, feel, know and create. If these traits appear in mere earth man, who came out of the clay and mud (where they are not, by the way, ever found in nature), then they must pre-exist the emergence of them in man, somewhere else in a more perfect and much earlier way.  Otherwise you are reasoning that intelligence naturally comes from mud, which anyone would be skeptical over.  So everything you take for granted as your natural mind is really a gift from your eternal Father who created you to have godlike intelligence.  Yet you don't see vast intelligence as necessary to have made you exist from mud and ooze in the first place, just accident and coincidence?

Nonsense. If human intelligence is proof of god then why are some humans more intelligent than others? Is god playing favorites and purposely putting certain people at a disadvantage? Human intelligence has evolved over time. Cave men were obviously not as intelligent as modern day man. It is evolution at work.

This is not proof there is an invisible man in the sky.

3.)   Your real problem, I sense, is that you are struggling to understand why God allows evil in the world, even creates evil in the first place, if He is a good and loving God.

If god creates evil in the first place then "he" is not a loving god like Christians claim, but a malevolent and evil deity. Your god didn't create evil. Neither did Allah, Krishna, Kukulcan, Osiris, Zeus or Horus. They didn't create anything because they don't exist. Men created the idea of these gods and then accredited them with supernatural powers to explain things that science couldn't at the time. Simple as that.

The answer is that when God created free will, He created evil.  Because only free willed intelligence can do other that what God programs it to do by nature.  

That's a ridiculous flawed answer because if god is omniscient there is no such thing as free will. If he knew before I was born that I'd become an atheist and he knew exactly what evidence that I require to prove to me that he is real, and he fails to provide that evidence, then he has condemned me to hell before I was even born. How do I have free will if everything is already decided by god beforehand? My existence is simply the enactment of a predetermined script basically.

Besides prayer being totally ineffectual (it doesn't work and never has), what is the point of praying to god if he already has a plan for every single person beforehand? Praying means you're trying to CHANGE what god already has in mind. In fact, if the Christian religion is the only true religion like you claim, god has condemned the majority of people on earth to hell before they were even born. And god directly undermines that free will claim himself in the bible. In the bible god DIRECTLY intervenes and sends plagues on cities, and commands killing and destruction, and edits things via intervention. That disproves the notion that he gave us "free will". If he's changed his mind about what's going to happen, and edits the future, then that means he's made an error and thus is not omniscient. If he can't change the future then he's not omnipotent. Your god can't exist.

What God is trying to get is a loving relationship that is real, because it is freely chosen.  In risking the creation of something that could reject His will, God knew that evil would result in some cases, and that this would be the price.  Yet He came as Jesus Christ and took that price on Himself, since He created the problem in the first place, and in so doing He provided the solution for those who love Him and His good and life-giving ways.   And He promised to return and finish the job for the sake of restoring the earth and its few loving inhabitants to their original beauty and peace.

Why did he create the problem in the first place? You are actually saying that god created the problem in the first place, and then to correct this problem HE created, sent himself down to earth in the form of a man named Jesus to correct that problem (even though he could just correct it with the snap of a finger). And all we have to do now is have blind faith in him, go to church and do a bunch of rituals like symbolically eating Christ's flesh (cannibalism) and symbolically drinking Christ's blood (vampirism) and we will be saved and live forever in a fairy cloud city called heaven? ROFL That's got to be the dumbest and most inefficient way possible to get things done. God is supposed to be all powerful, why doesn't he just obliterate all things evil? Why did he create evil in the first place? Because he didn't create shit, he doesn't exist. This is IDIOTIC.

Do not think that God is slow in bringing justice to this world, for you know that if He is really God He would do so and He hasn't.  But a thousand years is as a day to God, and a day as a thousand years.  He withholds for the sake of mercy to give all time to repent before He returns in judgment.

So you are claiming to know god's motivations and why he just sits in the sky and does nothing and makes no appearances. Yet you can't explain why he did make appearances in the fantasy book you call the "holy bible." I could go ask 99 other Christians that question and they'd given me 99 different answers. It's a bunch of convoluted nonsense. If god wanted us to know something he could spare teh confusion and just beam it right into our minds. He doesn't because he ain't there. You are just making excuses for the fact that your god is no more real than Kukulcan, Minerva, Amen Ra, Isis, Leprechauns or the tooth fairy. Do you believe in those gods? Do you believe in Leprechauns or Santa Clause? If not, why not?

[Anonymous]

Michael K. & checkitb4uwreckit,

You both clearly do not fully understand what your really up against. You simply do not or you wouldn't be writing this stuff. Or ..... your doing it on purpose.

Black or white. If your doing it on purpose: FECK OFF.

If your not and just on this trip: FECK OFF, DROP THE CRAP and GET FOCUSED.

ZS

[checkitb4uwreckit]

Michael K. & checkitb4uwreckit,

You both clearly do not fully understand what your really up against. You simply do not or you wouldn't be writing this stuff. Or ..... your doing it on purpose.

Black or white. If your doing it on purpose: FECK OFF.

If your not and just on this trip: FECK OFF, DROP THE CRAP and GET FOCUSED.

ZS

Being a skeptic and critical thinker, I endeavor to point out the fallacious nature of ridiculous beliefs and claims. Michael K., Gordzilla, and Tim Fitzpatrick, continuously conjure the most astonishing hypocritical bullshit you can think of to bolster their admitted blind faith in an invisible, intangible, omnipotent, omniscient, semitic space deity.

For example, Gordzilla falsely claims the theory of evolution is a "belief" and therefore he doesn't believe in it. Yet, he does this in an attempt to defend his "faith", which, by definition, is believing in something without any evidence. Besides the contemptible hypocrisy of his statement, why would he have a problem with the theory of evolution IF it were only a "belief" like he falsely claims? He is trying to defend blind faith here after all. Why not have blind faith in evolution then, Gordzilla?

If any of these clowns were born in Saudi Arabia, they would currently be worshiping a different invisible, intangible, semitic space deity named Allah, and would be praising his deranged "prophet" Mohammad and relating the preposterous legend of Mohammad's magical trip to heaven on his flying WINGED STEED, where god murmured a few things in his ear and then sent him down to Mecca to pronounce Allah's orders. Apparently all-powerful Allah couldn't just telepathically communicate his message to everyone on earth simultaneously. No way José, that would have been too much work for him.  :roll:  Both of these farcical faiths are based, at least in part, on the bat-shit, insane religion of Judaism. That's why they are called the three "Abrahamic faiths", they have common roots.

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

Some points about "Evolution" that don't add up:

1. SuperVolcano 73,000 years ago

Supervolcano Eruption -- In Sumatra -- Deforested India 73,000 Years Ago (and almost all of Europe, the Americas, Asia had "Ash" coverage... --CSR)

ScienceDaily (Nov. 24, 2009) — A new study provides "incontrovertible evidence" that the volcanic super-eruption of Toba on the island of Sumatra about 73,000 years ago deforested much of central India, some 3,000 miles from the epicenter, researchers report.

The volcano ejected an estimated 800 cubic kilometers of ash into the atmosphere, leaving a crater (now the world's largest volcanic lake) that is 100 kilometers long and 35 kilometers wide. Ash from the event has been found in India, the Indian Ocean, the Bay of Bengal and the South China Sea.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 142739.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 170128.htm

Ancient Supervolcano's Eruption Caused Decade Of Severe Winters

ScienceDaily (July 6, 2009) — Previous studies have suggested that Indonesia's Toba supervolcano, when it erupted about 74,000 years ago, triggered a 1,000-year episode of ice sheet advance, and also may have produced a short-lived "volcanic winter," which drastically reduced the human population at the time.

2. The wild and unique diversity of plant-animal life in India-Malaysia-Indonesia-Phillippines-Vietnam-Thailand-Burma...etc. existing "TODAY" must be accounted for in the time given... 73,000 years and not "Billions".

Q: Can 73,000 years allow for this much "diversity" of animal and plant species?

3. If you think it can... then why not build the algorithm to support a "new virtual evolutionary" theory.  (Kind of like the Jews building a "Virtual HOLOHOAX Camp".... it simply can't be done to allow for all variables...number of plant-animal diversity with fish included.... Evolution doesn't hold up in compressed timeframes... it never does... things just seem to "come into existence"....   0:)  )


Just 94 million years for most aquatic life?

Volcanic Eruptions May Have Wiped Out Ocean Life 94 Million Years Ago

ScienceDaily (July 18, 2008) — Undersea volcanic activity triggered a mass extinction of marine life and buried a thick mat of organic matter on the sea floor about 93 million years ago, which became a major source of oil, according to a new study.

"It certainly caused an extinction of several species in the marine environment," said University of Alberta Earth and Atmospheric Science researcher Steven Turgeon. "It wasn't as big as what killed off the dinosaurs, but it was what we call an extreme event in the Earth's history, something that doesn't happen very often."

U of A scientists Turgeon and Robert Creaser say the lava fountains that erupted altered the chemistry of the sea and possibly of the atmosphere.

"Of the big five mass extinctions in the Earth's history, most of them were some kind of impact with the planet's surface," said Turgeon. "This one is completely Earth-bound, it's strictly a natural phenomenon."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 095027.htm


4. Oh, BTW, God doesn't play dice with the universe.

[checkitb4uwreckit]

Some points about "Evolution" that don't add up:

I've already poked a thousand holes in theism in a few short posts which you haven't even attempted to address. Typical of religious kooks. Just ignore what they cannot defend against.

1. SuperVolcano 73,000 years ago

Supervolcano Eruption -- In Sumatra -- Deforested India 73,000 Years Ago (and almost all of Europe, the Americas, Asia had "Ash" coverage... --CSR)

ScienceDaily (Nov. 24, 2009) — A new study provides "incontrovertible evidence" that the volcanic super-eruption of Toba on the island of Sumatra about 73,000 years ago deforested much of central India, some 3,000 miles from the epicenter, researchers report.

The volcano ejected an estimated 800 cubic kilometers of ash into the atmosphere, leaving a crater (now the world's largest volcanic lake) that is 100 kilometers long and 35 kilometers wide. Ash from the event has been found in India, the Indian Ocean, the Bay of Bengal and the South China Sea.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 142739.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 170128.htm

Ancient Supervolcano's Eruption Caused Decade Of Severe Winters

ScienceDaily (July 6, 2009) — Previous studies have suggested that Indonesia's Toba supervolcano, when it erupted about 74,000 years ago, triggered a 1,000-year episode of ice sheet advance, and also may have produced a short-lived "volcanic winter," which drastically reduced the human population at the time.

2. The wild and unique diversity of plant-animal life in India-Malaysia-Indonesia-Phillippines-Vietnam-Thailand-Burma...etc. existing "TODAY" must be accounted for in the time given... 73,000 years and not "Billions".

Q: Can 73,000 years allow for this much "diversity" of animal and plant species?

Yeah, why not?

3. If you think it can... then why not build the algorithm to support a "new virtual evolutionary" theory.  (Kind of like the Jews building a "Virtual HOLOHOAX Camp".... it simply can't be done to allow for all variables...number of plant-animal diversity with fish included.... Evolution doesn't hold up in compressed timeframes... it never does... things just seem to "come into existence"....   0:)  )

Holocaustiantiy is very comparable to Christianity. It is a regular religion replete with saints, holy men and grotesque impossibilities no rational human being would believe. You don't believe in holocaustianity but believe in Christianity. What's the qualitative evidential difference for "soap and lampshades" and Jesus' miracles? In fact, it could be said that there is more so-called "evidence" for the soap and lampshades fable than Jesus' miracles, since the Jew hoaxers actually produced some prop lampshades, fake soap and shrunken heads from South America. Jesus' miracles are just words written on paper, in a book which also claims that the sun stood still for a day and the earth is sitting on pillars and has edges, etc.

Moreover, how can you claim things don't just "come into existence" when you believe "god" just "came into existence"?

You haven't proven anything, CSR. And you're not a scientist, so what makes your speculation about what's possible or not possible without some magical fairy space god intervention, credible? You don't really know what you're talking about on these scientific issues.

Just 94 million years for most aquatic life?

You're right, god waved his magical wand and aquatic life appeared in a millisecond. Much more plausible.  

[checkitb4uwreckit]

Here's a typical "Christian believer", Mr. Ray Comfort. Here, in this 30 minute video, he is desperately trying to convince people to believe in Christianity and Holocaustianity. They are almost identical belief systems.

[youtube:3p2rdm7c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y2KsU_dhwI[/youtube]3p2rdm7c]

Holocaustianity is a regular religion replete with saints, holy men and grotesque impossibilities no rational human being would believe. They have:

Their God, Son of God, Holy Spirit (The Jew)
Their Saints (Saint anne, Saint eli, Saint victim, Saint lipstadt)
Their Apostles (The 6 million)
Their Holy Site (Auschwitz)
Their God-given land (Palestine)
Their devil (Adolf Hitler and the German people)
Their brain-amputated followers (the common jew and christians)

[checkitb4uwreckit]

CSR, you're a closeted Christian Identityist. C.I. is Judaism for White people.

Prothink actually invited me over to join the discussions on the hardcore C.I. fanatic William Finck's Christogenea.net voice chat server. I twice went in there and debated that guy and his followers. Basically I ripped to shreds their ridiculous faith using simple logic. He would make the most ridiculous and absurd excuses for things and would just start yelling you down when he couldn't answer for something. Or use the typical cop-out "I'm not gonna answer that logical question because that's Jew logic", blah, blah, blah. He couldn't handle me so he just booted me the second time I went in there. Was pretty fucking hilarious. Finck can't even agree with another C.I. dual-seedline pastor, Eli James, about just what set of fables they believe in. Shows how convoluted and retarded their beliefs are.

[Anonymous]

What is this the freckin' Discover Channel now?


- We have the evidence of who the enemy are

- we know why they do this insanity

- we have the evidence of their crimes against humanity throughout history

- we have the evidence of their endgame (they clearly tell us they are going to kill us off and 100% enslave a few to wipe their butts)

- we know we're at the end of the line

 ......... and you cats wanna debate soap and shrunken heads?  HOPELESS !!!!!!

Not only are the jews laughing in your faces, now I am too !

JEW, TAKE OUT, OR YOUR DEAD. SOON. DONE.  

Why the heck are you talking about the holohoax? We have the evidence this is bullshit. FECK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God damn pussies.

ZS

[checkitb4uwreckit]

......... and you cats wanna debate soap and shrunken heads?  HOPELESS !!!!!!

...

Why the heck are you talking about the holohoax? We have the evidence this is bullshit. FECK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well the point in bringing that up is that CSR does not believe in the discredited soap and lampshades holohoax story (rightly so), yet, at the same time, FULLY believes in Jesus's IMPOSSIBLE miracles as told in the fantasy book known as the holy bible. Even though technically there is actual physical "proofs" (though fake and fabricated) for soap and lampshades, and no physical proofs for Jesus's alleged miracle work. So the mystery is, why doesn't he believe in Soap and Lampshades if really he doesn't care about evidence to believe in something?

That is the fundamental hypocrisy that is being displayed here by religious kooks. They disbelieve in some things, yet fully believe in other things even though they have no more or less evidence to believe in those other things (i.e. deities, Jesus miracles, etc).

This illustrates clearly that religious people are dishonest liars. There is no way that they don't realize that they are doing this.

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

LMAO!

MSMD, you are too much. I love how you pretend that we haven't already answered or addressed your questions 10-times over in multiple other threads. How long can you keep that up?

[checkitb4uwreckit]

LMAO!

MSMD, you are too much. I love how you pretend that we haven't already answered or addressed your questions 10-times over in multiple other threads. How long can you keep that up?

You haven't addressed a damn thing. You know your "faith" is false. I've punctured so many holes in it already that it's not possible you don't know Christianity is bullshit. But, instead of admitting this like an honest person would, you make up hundreds of ridiculous and bizarre rationalizations to continue to believe Christianity's impossible, farcical doctrines. Thus, you are deceitful.

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

LMAO!

MSMD, you are too much. I love how you pretend that we haven't already answered or addressed your questions 10-times over in multiple other threads. How long can you keep that up?

You haven't addressed a damn thing. You know your "faith" is false. I've punctured so many holes in it already that it's not possible you don't know Christianity is bullshit. But, instead of admitting this like an honest person would, you make up ridiculous and bizarre rationalizations to continue to believe Christianity's impossible, farcical doctrines. Thus, you are deceitful.

Sure, play dumb. You aren't impressing anyone.

[checkitb4uwreckit]

It's you that is playing dumb Tim. Or, I should say, you don't have to play dumb since you are just plain dumb to begin with.

Let me ask you Tim, do you believe in Kukulcan, the mayan wind god also known as feathered serpent god?

[CrackSmokeRepublican]

Okay, MSMD... believe what you will.

But, since you are strictly "not by the book".... tell us, what is your Cosmology? If you even know what that means... like what "work/research/discoveries" do you think explains "things"...  with physics and biology?  How did everything start?  Or how old is the universe? What are the bricks of your Cosmology?  

By the way, this link shows unique species across the world.... Sri Lanka is very close to Toba... covered feet deep in ash at some point but hey... look at the number of unique Freshwater fish species there... that's a lot of evolution that can be calculated year by year after the destruction of that territory by the Toba Supervolcano... and then try Malaysia... covered in Ash... 73,000 years ago? That takes a lot of "faith" in my book...  to explain...

http://lntreasures.com/srilanka.html

Checklists of Endemics

Mammal Species 13

Bird Species 23

Reptile Species 77

Amphibian Species 39

Freshwater Fish Species 29

Marine Fish Species 9

Vertebrate Genera 19

Swallowtail & Milkweed Butterfly Species 4

Vascular Plant Genera 15

Families & Orders 0

[GordZilla]

Here we go loop du loo, here we go loop da lay...

Well MSMD, welcome back! Been awhile since I've seen you post here, though I know you have been present elsewhere. Good to have you back, sincerely.

Well you have taken apart my post piece by piece and have provided your insight once again so I figured I should at least respond in kind. However today was a rotten day for me as I spent a good deal of it trying to illustrated for my boss that 3000 dead innocent American lives are do not equate to 1.5 million innocent Iraqis lives. I'm sure you've been down that road before with someone too, some people will not hear it. You might indeed think the same of me;  that I won't hear it. But I do, I read what you post and take the time to consider it, as well with others. As I said before, I do value the minds of the people on this forum, I do believe they are amongst some of the brightest in existence. Yours is quite obviously not an exception to that, your mind works very well, and I do like your reasoning, it's clear.

However, and you knew that was coming;  However...

Back to your post at hand, and the topic this has now evolved into;  Religion and Faith.

Well, I for one do not defend organized religion, I agree with you on almost entirely all of what you have to say on that front. I do however do see incredible value in the teachings of Jesus Christ, whether a fictional character or not I still maintain there is a lot to learn from this man. I also still maintain that although yes the 'Jews' were spoken about by others before Christ's time,  none spoke more directly, with more insight and with the added predictions as Jesus Christ did. I can't see the harm in listening to a bit of what He had said. I also maintain that yes, yes indeed the Christians have slowed the progress of the Jews many times in history, they have been the biggest push against the Jew historically too. You claim there to be no proof of this, yet I know of over 100 times were this in fact has been proven. The problem of course being is the 'solutions' have all been temporary. I could only imagine that they would have been permanent if, say, the Byzantine empire was outstretched around the world, entirely. Had this been the case the Jew would be a problem no more. But that was the problem, none of these 'solutions' were ever attempted on a world-wide scale. I also mention about Father Coughlin's time, and you cleverly sidestep it by assuming I grab stuff out of mid air and ignore factual evidence you provide. Well I don't, on both counts. The truth is that in his time (and before) there was a greater sense of, if I can borrow their word, 'anti-Semitism' amongst the White word. Now you can claim this was not the case, however I know you would have to lie to do so. I have known people like this in my personal life, I have made reference to this before, they were 'Jew-wise' without much knowledge of the Jew outside of the teachings of Jesus Christ. No internet, no videos, no underground magazines. Nope they were common folk who from their real word experience and the teachings of the fore mentioned they KNEW the Jew. That is what has slipped away, and that is what slowed their progress in the past. 100 plus times. Now I know you believe that this was achieved without a faith, without His words and merely from the 'goodness' of the average White European citizen, but that's a fallacy. Much like believing that Whites, on their own with no shared beliefs would indeed still manage to form cults than cultures than civilizations. Again never happened, and never will. So for the last 2000 years or so when the Jew was ousted here and there, it was by a culture formed from a cult of shared believes amongst predominately White nations, question for you is; What was that shared belief?  How did they even notice the Jew, how did they find objection to the things they were doing? 'Goodness'??  Seriously you believe that?

Now let's spin it in the other direction; Whites void of a shared faith, rather ANY faith, forming what appears to be a nation. A nation where belief is abolish and science alone reigns supreme. What do you figure would happen, given human nature as it is? Do you picture a world like 'Star Trek', where everything and everyone is at peace with everything and everyone else? Where money is not needed, and all things can just be created, rather 'replicated', so the very need for 'need' is completely eliminated? Is that how you see it? Well then you would have left out the caveat; 'human nature'. What I would see, envisioning this world, would be something more akin to George Orwell's 'Animal Farm'. It would be atheistic communism on steroids. Imagine ' science rules'; your child -if you were permitted to have children - happens to be born a little 'slower' than his peers, what happens in this world? Well, he/she would have to be removed - rejected. What about your place in this world, predetermined from amplitude tests? Cause science would show us that if we are to advance we'd have to eliminate the week, and categorize the rest. You think individual freedom could be obtained in such a world? And what about 'freedom' itself. Orwell has it right "all animals are equal but some more than others", that is indeed what would unfold, given human nature. Pray you're not on the short end of the stick on that deal. I know, as we've rehashed this same argument a few times on this forum, that you don't believe individual freedom owes anything to the chance, or faith, of there being a creator, but I would argue back, quite simply, there is no other way. This world would be that example, and look to communist Russia to see how it played out. For freedom REQUIRES the recognition of all men being equal -full stop, no hidden clauses. Faith in a God, and fear of His retribution indeed helped create this very notion - in fact nothing else could. 'Ah baloney' I hear you say, but in a faithless world, with the added touch of 'human nature', the end result is exactly what I'm describing in this fictional faithless and scientific  world; some animals are more equal than others - except here they could even add on to that; 'see, science proves it'.

Science, ah science, for some odd reason whenever I debate faith it seems I'm always pegged with science, as if one couldn't exist in the other's world. Well it reminds of a quote I heard once, and I'll be damned if I can remember who said it, but goes like this; "The first sip from the cup of science leads to atheism, but at the bottom of the cup awaits God". Many scientists throughout history have also come to this realization. But back to science, no I'm not a scientist, but I don't need to be to find it pretty disingenuous to have someone else -who is not either -use that excuse against me. Never-the-less let's look at science, from our 'un-scientist' perspective. Science has theories which become laws, and although I'm not a white coat wearing member of this tribe, I do know a few of them. I know the law of thermodynamics, I know this law is used to help realize that the universe is in motion. I know the physics of kineticism, and I know the law of relativity. I know that a few of these laws combined have help scientists come to the conclusion of the' big bang theory'. All well and good, but where they are puzzled, as am I is; What is/was before? Using these laws we know energy and matter cannot exist outside of time. We know reaction takes action. And we know the universe is in motion. Well from that I can deduct, as have many scientists have themselves, that something had to have 'triggered' it. But this 'something' is outside of what we know. Outside of time and matter and energy. 'Well that's impossible!'  says science, and I have to agree - it sure does seem impossible, yet there it is. And the worst part is in order for that something to have been started, a 'something' itself must have started it - as per the laws of kinetics. The question science is now grappling with is was it a random event outside of all known physics, or was it something sentient - again outside of all known physics? That one is tough, I lean on the side of maybe it was indeed something, and something with a purpose in mind.

So now -so you know -science is stumped here on another front too, one that is very simple sounding but that does not take away from the weight it does hold in this argument. Nothing, according to all we know in the scientific world, nothing can never become something. Ever. You could take a vacuum sealed mason jar, brimming to the lid with nothing and wait as many of billions of years as you would like and it will remain nothing. Yet there's something, we are here. Couple that together with the big bang theory as science knows it and the problem becomes even more perplexing for us.

Now lastly there is DNA itself, and yes I've heard the argument that there are some creatures who apparently have none, however I find this argument as weak as me telling you Jesus walked on water - you'd have to see it to believe it. So any and virtually all creatures have this DNA, from the very complex to the very simple, and all seem to have tons of it. So much so  that some DNA strands seem to be useless, referred to often as 'junk DNA' . Ok this is all well and good. I have no problems with any of this, it makes good sense - well except the 'junk DNA' (I figure by now the scientific community should know better than to label something they don't quite understand yet as 'junk' - but that's another story). Ok so DNA, what is it? Well science agrees it's a code. What science also agrees on is that no code has ever been known to exist naturally, except this one; DNA. Almost all scientists, except the reluctant ones, will tell you 'codes' are indeed a 'language' which requires intelligence. Well  you can see where I'm going with this, I think it's fitting that in the Bible among the first words are "and God said the word and then there was life". DNA to me is that 'word'.

Ok all this, to me, can be used to easily validate one's opinion that there is indeed a 'creator', now whether He is a leprechaun or Santa Clause or an alien or a She? That's another question but  the debate is almost all but over as to whether or not there is one, at least when science has a look.  You may not like that outcome, lots of scientists don't either and press forward to find another explanation(s), oh well such is human nature.

Ok so now I put to you, and not so much Zionist Sniper as he at least can see that there may be a creator - just don't call it 'God' ... but I put to you; How can you know there's not?  I will answer that for you;  you can't!  As I know science cant either - no one can! Now if this 'creator exists - and it must exist outside of time, energy and matter - could you not then claim it is 'supernatural' in  ..well.. nature? Yet you want to be able to understand all that He/She/it might be by dissecting a book that has been re-written a few times and refers to miracles and impossibilities? Really? Well it might have effect on some, but not me, I already see Him as supernatural.  How I'm I, a creature of the natural world, going to be able to ever understand all that is possible within, and with, the supernatural? I don't assume to, which is why I don't often use biblical quotes to argue in the case of 'faith'.

'Faith', what is it? Well it's blind, you can't expect to get one single answer from 99 different people, you never will. Whether they are Christian, which seems to be your focus, or Muslim or Hindu etc. Those with 'faith' are going to have different interpretations of what that is exactly for them. People will also interpret their books of faith differently amongst themselves too. 'Faith' is immune to all of this. Faith is individual, and is judged/rewarded etc on that same basis, or not at all. To the Christian God, faith is the greatest gift a mortal can offer, indeed the one most sought after by God. You would argue it's easy to give, I'd say only one without faith would make such a remark - it's not. Faith is about trust, trust in your heart and trust in your creator, and in the Christian world that creator did all He could to make this trust a very difficult journey to take -I would argue by design. You refer to the Old Testament for some of your evidence that God is not someone you'd want to share the sandbox with, I see it a bit differently, I see a God who was a jealous God, a God amongst Gods, and one who did not know what it was like to be human. He did not understand why it was for so many not to give faith onto Him. He reacted badly when presented by this. Then came a New Testament, where He decided to find out just what it was to be human, this is where the tide changed, no longer did God stick around directing people in their day-to-day. This is where, I believe, He learned that in order to bring the best of them to him, He would have to give them the choice, He'd have to step out of the picture - and He did. Free choice was given to man as the 'big brother of the sky' decided to change His ways and step back. Now all that was left was faith, and that's all He wanted. In the words of The Police "If you love somebody set them free".  I don't see God as the 'all loving' God you claim I do. I never said that, not 'all' loving, there are some He doesn't. I believe He is holding Himself under a lot of restraint and would indeed wipe entire nations on the earth without this restraint. This restraint, I belieive, was learned thru His experience on earth. He knows now that we won't change, so He let us have our way with it, but did give us some guide lines and some warnings, and most of them still hold value today. He's not here for everyone , just everyone that chooses to be with Him. That's my God, and it may not be everyone's but that's the God I hold my faith up for. To ZS, it's the creator, to you it seems to be science.

Babies in heaven? see the supernatural bit, I'm sure he makes that 'just' somehow. Why doesn't He come down and change things, see the freewill and faith bit. I'm sure you had a few other problems with the Christian God that I'm not touching on, though I'm sure I have before anyways. I'm also sure none of this will change your mind, and I don't fool myself into thinking it will. I respect you, despite your lack of respect for my faith. I wonder if you feel the same about Mike Delany's faith? Ah, that's another story. My only issue is as it's always been; people's faith, people I consider allies within the confines of Jew-wise forums should not be outright personally insulted. Being called 'fools' and such when I KNOW they have no way of knowing there is not a creator so therefore these actions are hypocritical at best.

Now why do I bring it up, Christianity, in the first place. Well some of the faithful were under blanket attack here, and as I said that's completely hypocritical, science be damned you can't know! But secondly, as I stated before, this particular faith, prior to the poisoning it has suffered the last few hundred years has been virtually the only article of unity that has ever brought hinderance to the Jew. Apart from making Christianity more supportive of the Jewish cause, there is another reason for this infiltration and poising.  It's precisely because of this fact, this religion brings them resistance when practiced in it's true form (by following the teachings of Jesus in the oldest book you can find). Those teachings have indeed woken many folk to the Jew. If you follow it closely, and your neighbor does too, it doesn't take long for all of you to notice the ones who are not. Couple that with Jesus telling you exactly what they are and what they will do then it becomes very clear to the masses that action must be taken. That my friend is exactly how it happened, it could not have been done by just being 'White' alone, it had to have been from a shared belief and guidelines and rules among the common folk to recognize, then retaliate, against those that wished not to share in this cultture, not share in these guidelines and rules. Yup other faiths can accomplish this too, the most notable is the other target of their hatred; Islam. Islam would make up the other times in history where we've seen the Jew get ousted, again by a common belief in a culture share by common people. That is the power of faith, and yeah you can even go back to Roman times, and still see examples of this strength, a strength only obtained from shared belief of what is right and what is wrong. In an atheist scientific world mixed with a dash of human nature the end result would be those rules and guidelines would not be shared by the common folk, but rather would be shared by the folk who considered themselves 'more equal' as it were. Just who do you think would rise to the top? Who would call the shots? And what rules and guidelines do you think they'd write for themselves to share? I guarentee those rules would not hold the same values we do.  You're fooling yourself if you think some other unity could evolve in this imagined world made of sceintific rule, faithlessness and human nature.

It amazes me in quite the opposite direction;  I'm amazed 'Jew wise' people cannot see this is indeed a battle beyond the mortal world. This is indeed the very battle of good versus evil. They didn't evolve this way, they were created this way. 'Fingers of the same had'. You can lock them in boxes from birth and they still tell lies without an inkling of guilt, without a hit of a conscious. Brother Cane indeed. Re-created for us in Esau and Jacob. This is the stage - pick your side. They already choose theirs.  They also know this shit is real, they worked hard to convince you it's not - ONLY BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT IS. Your soul is in the bidding, their father would like to win it. They didn't need to create Jesus, it would serve -as shown - only to be a hinderance to them.  They are not fools, and Jesus is not their creation. If you think they haven't tried for a very long time indeed to rid the Christian world of the teachings of Jesus, than you are simply not paying attention. History does not reflect your belief. And with the passing of true faith, in Islam or Christianity or whatever, will grow -in almost direct proportion-  their control and will also lower any resistance they might encounter. They know this lesson well, they have contracted people to re-write bibles, to remove prayers and ideologies -and add their own (Were they just too stupid to have done that in the first place???) . To promote atheism, Darwinism, Marxism you name the 'ism'.  All to detract you from the real game, the one our forefathers knew much more intimately.

As per Hitler? When did you get the impression I do not defend him? Which brings us full circle back to the topic of this thread ... and yes despite Carolyn's much to be despised approach I still find her arguments spot on.

[Michael K.]

Zionist Sniper wrote:Michael K. & checkitb4uwreckit,

You both clearly do not fully understand what your really up against. You simply do not or you wouldn't be writing this stuff. Or ..... your doing it on purpose.

Black or white. If your doing it on purpose: FECK OFF.

If your not and just on this trip: FECK OFF, DROP THE CRAP and GET FOCUSED.

ZS

Zionist Sniper, I want you to explain for me as though I have no clue, what it is that I am "up against".  I assume that you mean Jewry and their ilk.


checkitb4uwreckit,

what you need is to be shown unconditional love, and I myself have failed to do this for you, and so I am sorry.  If you have some tumor on your body that makes you feel less than a full human being, then take hope in all the healing and restoration that Christ did.  If you pass judgment, you will have a "glorified body" to dwell eternally in.  Some of us are seriously maimed, and more importantly we all are spiritually maimed from the world hurting us so cruelly.  

Evil is the product of free wills choosing to destroy the natural growth pattern of the physical realm to get temporary gains with which to affect future outcomes.  It is liquidating everybody's today just to own a tomorrow.  This is because some people don't love, and so they throw away the miracle of what is already there in order to make some money.  This is possible because of free will.  Free will abused is the mystery of evil.

Regard the things of heaven as possible, even if just by suspending disbelief long enough to imagine.  As above, so below.  We humans are a distorted reflection of a more perfect pattern, which we do not own or originate.  Imagine good and you will know that it exists.  Live in the love of knowing that regardless of whatever happens, that you are ultimately safe in a fair final judgment.  

If Christ sees that you loved a lot, even if you were always imperfect, He may save you even if you never confessed Him, as long as you did not offed his divine progenitor, The Holy Spirit or Ghost, depending whom you ask.  You see, while he is not here for you to see and know, the Holy Spirit is.  If you fear to do those things which are unconscionable to a kind person, like abusing those weaker than one's self, or pets and animals, etc., you probably have a general idea of the Holy and life-giving Spirit or Ghost.  You are probably a good person.

[Anonymous]

Zionist Sniper wrote:Michael K. & checkitb4uwreckit,

You both clearly do not fully understand what your really up against. You simply do not or you wouldn't be writing this stuff. Or ..... your doing it on purpose.

Black or white. If your doing it on purpose: FECK OFF.

If your not and just on this trip: FECK OFF, DROP THE CRAP and GET FOCUSED.

ZS

Zionist Sniper, I want you to explain for me as though I have no clue, what it is that I am "up against".  I assume that you mean Jewry and their ilk.

Jews, you, dead, soon. They are 100's to 1000's of years ahead of us goy in the organization dept. to accomplish their goals. Clear ?

At this point the details are continuing to keep us going in circles.

ZS

[Moe Foe]

Twas a sad day MSMD got his logic for beginners book.  He thinks he's Carl Sagan now.  :lol:

The Jews use atheism to destroy spirituality among all peoples of faith, particularly Christians because their hatred of Christianity is virulent. This was laid out in the protocols of Zion. The militant atheist community definitely seem part of the anti-Christian agenda. Militant atheists and their aggressive followers are pesudo-skeptical, phony rationalists.  The problem with militant atheists is that they are arrogant and act like they have it all figured out. There are some things we will never know, but to pretend that we've got it all figured out, to assert that there is nothing bigger than ourselves and that our existence is just some chemical accident is pompous. There are many good things that you can take from the teachings of many religions and incorporate into our own philosophies.

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

Zionist Sniper wrote:Michael K. & checkitb4uwreckit,

You both clearly do not fully understand what your really up against. You simply do not or you wouldn't be writing this stuff. Or ..... your doing it on purpose.

Black or white. If your doing it on purpose: FECK OFF.

If your not and just on this trip: FECK OFF, DROP THE CRAP and GET FOCUSED.

ZS

Zionist Sniper, I want you to explain for me as though I have no clue, what it is that I am "up against".  I assume that you mean Jewry and their ilk.

Jews, you, dead, soon. They are 100's to 1000's of years ahead of us goy in the organization dept. to accomplish their goals. Clear ?

At this point the details are continuing to keep us going in circles.

ZS

While the details may keep us going in circles, the segregationists, like Giuliani and MSMD, are doing worse by dividing the movement. People like Giuliani and MSMD are quite obviously subversive. There is nothing genuine or sincere in their dialectics. Did you honestly think the Jews would leave us alone without trying to subvert us?

Enter the Marxist Nihilist Revolutionary

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

Twas a sad day MSMD got his logic for beginners book.  He thinks he's Carl Sagan now.  :lol:

The Jews use atheism to destroy spirituality among all peoples of faith, particularly Christians because their hatred of Christianity is virulent. This was laid out in the protocols of Zion. The militant atheist community definitely seem part of the anti-Christian agenda. Militant atheists and their aggressive followers are pesudo-skeptical, phony rationalists.  The problem with militant atheists is that they are arrogant and act like they have it all figured out. There are some things we will never know, but to pretend that we've got it all figured out, to assert that there is nothing bigger than ourselves and that our existence is just some chemical accident is pompous. There are many good things that you can take from the teachings of many religions and incorporate into our own philosophies.

Indeed, militant atheists are exactly like the Jewish radicals of the 60s and 70s. Er, they were/are Jewish radicals. Why, they are only trying to free us from our culturally-induced psychosis ... or neurosis, as Marxist Jew Freud called it.

[youtube:1jf69dnw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-dWC-vFAwk[/youtube]1jf69dnw]

"The truth is that while conservatives won the Cold War with political and economic Communism, we've lost the cultural war with cultural Marxism, which I think has prevailed pretty much in the United States. It is now the dominant culture. Whereas those of us who are traditionalists, we are, if you will, the counterculture."

[checkitb4uwreckit]

Firstly, Gordzilla, in your long diatribe you have failed to counter a single one of my non-existence of god arguments or address the fundamental hypocrisy of you calling evolution a "belief" while defending blind faith in a deity. If you are defending faith (i.e. believing something without any evidence), why would you have a problem with the theory of evolution IF it were merely a "belief" as you falsely claim? if the theory of evolution were just a belief (i.e. something lacking evidence), you would be saying great things about it right now. The fact that it is not a "belief", but a solid, proven theory based on scientific facts and observations is why you take issue with it. Proofs that conflict with your BLIND FAITH are dismissed by you, and in your desperation, you even apply to these proofs the concepts you are supposed to be DEFENDING (i.e. faith, belief, etc) to denigrate them.  :lol:

And you have just basically restated all of the absurd things that I conclusively debunked in my two responses to your previous post. The fact that all of my sound, logical, undeniable reasoning disproving the existence of god just goes right over your head time and time again proves that you are under A FORM OF MIND CONTROL. It is like trying to convince someone who has been brainwashed with the holocaust religion that 6,000,000 Jews did not die in the so called holocaust. No matter how much proof and evidence and logic you demonstrate to them, they will continue to believe. You are no different than a holocaustian, Gord. People like this are not an asset to any cause of truth, because they don't care about the truth.

I also maintain that yes, yes indeed the Christians have slowed the progress of the Jews many times in history, they have been the biggest push against the Jew historically too. You claim there to be no proof of this, yet I know of over 100 times were this in fact has been proven.

In your vein defense of the bullshit that is Christianity, you keep shifting the topic to these expulsions of Jews because it takes attention away from the infinite number of holes in your belief system. You're just looking to "prove" that christiainity has done something positive. Regardless if it has or not, that doesn't make it any less bullshit and made up.

Those expulsions were not all from Christian lands, and from the ones that were predominately Christian you'd have to prove that the expulsions were motivated by the people's Christianity, instead of something else like, for example, an uprising against the Jews' exploitative practices of usury, or Jewish ritual murders. What does people's belief in a God or Jesus have to do with the expulsion of the Jews in various countries?

Now let's spin it in the other direction; Whites void of a shared faith, rather ANY faith, forming what appears to be a nation. A nation where belief is abolish and science alone reigns supreme. What do you figure would happen, given human nature as it is? Do you picture a world like 'Star Trek', where everything and everyone is at peace with everything and everyone else? Where money is not needed, and all things can just be created, rather 'replicated', so the very need for 'need' is completely eliminated? Is that how you see it? Well then you would have left out the caveat; 'human nature'. What I would see, envisioning this world, would be something more akin to George Orwell's 'Animal Farm'. It would be atheistic communism on steroids.

Communism is a political ideology and system. Atheism is simply lacking the belief in a god, they have nothing to do with one another. I don't believe in Leprechauns, which makes me an aleprechaunist. Is there a political ideology attached to not believing in leprechauns too?

It's idiotic to assume that because a majority of the people in a country are atheists that they would magically get the urge to want to live under Communism. The Scandinavian countries, I have heard, have majority atheist populations, and they are some of the best countries to live in and they aren't Communist dictatorships. Your arguments are fallacious. Now, I see you are advocating basically some sort of Christian theocracy. Let's look at the middle-ages. During the heyday of the Catholic Church, HERESY WAS PUNISHABLE BY DEATH. Christian religious authorities in Europe would hunt down "heathens", "heretics" and people accused of being "witches" and burn them at the stake! They arrested Galileo because of his "heretical theory" that the earth revolved around the sun. Christians strung him up in a torture device and made him renounce his factual observation! Oh how wonderful life would be for us under a Christian theocracy. Pfffft. The Muslim equivalent to what you're advocating is living under Sharia Law.

But back to science, no I'm not a scientist, but I don't need to be to find it pretty disingenuous to have someone else -who is not either -use that excuse against me.

It's not disingenuous. What is supremely disingenuous however is that you have dismissed the well-proven theory of evolution, by claiming it is only a "belief", yet, at the same time defend blind faith in an invisible deity! That you are no scientist simply illustrates the fact that you are not qualified to dismiss the evidence that evolutionary biologists give to prove evolution is true. You are essentially claiming to know better than they do about what constitutes legitimate proof of evolution. You wouldn't know what good evidence is if you saw it because you could CARE LESS ABOUT EVIDENCE. That is the point of the whole discussion, you are defending FAITH, believing in something WITHOUT evidence and IN SPITE of the evidence to the contrary. You are the hypocrite and you are the one being disingenuous.

I know that a few of these laws combined have help scientists come to the conclusion of the' big bang theory'. All well and good, but where they are puzzled, as am I is; What is/was before? Using these laws we know energy and matter cannot exist outside of time. We know reaction takes action. And we know the universe is in motion. Well from that I can deduct, as have many scientists have themselves, that something had to have 'triggered' it. But this 'something' is outside of what we know. Outside of time and matter and energy. 'Well that's impossible!'  says science, and I have to agree - it sure does seem impossible, yet there it is. And the worst part is in order for that something to have been started, a 'something' itself must have started it - as per the laws of kinetics. The question science is now grappling with is was it a random event outside of all known physics, or was it something sentient - again outside of all known physics? That one is tough, I lean on the side of maybe it was indeed something, and something with a purpose in mind.

You've simply invented a fictional realm "outside physics" to give hope to your fantasy that there had to be a creator. You just keep creating invisible, intangible things to feed your unquenchable desire to BELIEVE.

So now -so you know -science is stumped here on another front too, one that is very simple sounding but that does not take away from the weight it does hold in this argument. Nothing, according to all we know in the scientific world, nothing can never become something. Ever. You could take a vacuum sealed mason jar, brimming to the lid with nothing and wait as many of billions of years as you would like and it will remain nothing. Yet there's something, we are here.

This is the argument theists always fall back on. And it's fallacious. You claim that something can't come from nothing, but then how did god come from nothing and how did he create the universe from nothing?

Now lastly there is DNA itself, and yes I've heard the argument that there are some creatures who apparently have none, however I find this argument as weak as me telling you Jesus walked on water - you'd have to see it to believe it.

Yet you believe jesus walked on water don't you?

So any and virtually all creatures have this DNA, from the very complex to the very simple, and all seem to have tons of it. So much so  that some DNA strands seem to be useless, referred to often as 'junk DNA' . Ok this is all well and good. I have no problems with any of this, it makes good sense - well except the 'junk DNA' (I figure by now the scientific community should know better than to label something they don't quite understand yet as 'junk' - but that's another story). Ok so DNA, what is it? Well science agrees it's a code. What science also agrees on is that no code has ever been known to exist naturally, except this one; DNA. Almost all scientists, except the reluctant ones, will tell you 'codes' are indeed a 'language' which requires intelligence. Well  you can see where I'm going with this, I think it's fitting that in the Bible among the first words are "and God said the word and then there was life". DNA to me is that 'word'.

You keep asserting what scientists believe and what is 'accepted' and so forth. You are just pulling this out of thin air.

Citing the bible for your claims discredits you.The bible also said there was a talking snake in the garden of eden, that Noah built a giant ark with his bare hands and took two of each kind of species, including a million species of insects, on a boat to survive a world-wide flood by god, and that jesus was raised from the dead, and that the sun stood still for a day, and that the earth is sitting on 'pillars', and has "four corners" thus is flat, and has edges, etc. The bible is a pile of nonsense.

Ok all this, to me, can be used to easily validate one's opinion that there is indeed a 'creator', now whether He is a leprechaun or Santa Clause or an alien or a She? That's another question but  the debate is almost all but over as to whether or not there is one, at least when science has a look.  You may not like that outcome, lots of scientists don't either and press forward to find another explanation(s), oh well such is human nature.

None of what you stated validates a creator. You provide nothing but anecdotal assertions based on a very limited knowledge of science.

Ok so now I put to you, and not so much Zionist Sniper as he at least can see that there may be a creator - just don't call it 'God' ... but I put to you; How can you know there's not?  I will answer that for you;  you can't! As I know science cant either - no one can! Now if this 'creator exists - and it must exist outside of time, energy and matter - could you not then claim it is 'supernatural' in  ..well.. nature?

That is the equivalent of saying "you can't know for sure there aren't invisible leprechauns in my shoes."  You've made your god unfalsifiable (invisible, intangible, etc) so that nobody can disprove it because you've placed it outside the realm of physical evidence. See how idiotic it is? You can't "know" for sure there are no invisible, intangible, leprechauns in my shoes, but based on the evidence, you can be damn well certain that the invisible leprechauns in my shoes are fictional. Hypothetically, if those invisible, intangible leprechauns in my shoes did, somehow, magically exist, what would be the point in "believing" in them? It'd be fucking stupid and pointless.

Yet you want to be able to understand all that He/She/it might be by dissecting a book that has been re-written a few times and refers to miracles and impossibilities? Really? Well it might have effect on some, but not me, I already see Him as supernatural.  How I'm I, a creature of the natural world, going to be able to ever understand all that is possible within, and with, the supernatural? I don't assume to, which is why I don't often use biblical quotes to argue in the case of 'faith'.

That book is claimed by Christians to be the eternal, infallible word of god. Christians claim god is perfect and can't make any mistakes. If god's "word" in the form of the bible contains errors, then how can god be perfect? If god's not perfect, as is claimed by Christians, then how can the Judeo-Christian god of the bible be real?

'Faith', what is it? Well it's blind, you can't expect to get one single answer from 99 different people, you never will. Whether they are Christian, which seems to be your focus, or Muslim or Hindu etc. Those with 'faith' are going to have different interpretations of what that is exactly for them. People will also interpret their books of faith differently amongst themselves too.

And that proves how flawed religion is. How can any religion be true, if 1) there are so many of them with totally different beliefs and 2) there is no agreement among believers and 3) the religion you hold is mainly determined by dates and demographics? So who's right? Muslims, Christians, Hindus, the Bahai faith, the ancient greek gods, ancient Egyptian gods, ancient roman gods, ancient nordic gods? They can't all be right, and among all those individual religions there is no agreement. There are dozens of denominations of Christianity that all disagree with one another and have fought wars with one another. If the Christian god is real, why does he allow this to happen when he could just beam the truth into the minds of everyone simultaneously? The answer is obvious.

'Faith' is immune to all of this. Faith is individual, and is judged/rewarded etc on that same basis, or not at all. To the Christian God, faith is the greatest gift a mortal can offer, indeed the one most sought after by God. You would argue it's easy to give, I'd say only one without faith would make such a remark - it's not. Faith is about trust, trust in your heart and trust in your creator,

Faith is believing in something without evidence. IT IS POINTLESS. I could have faith in invisible leprechauns too. WHAT'S THE FUCKING POINT?

and in the Christian world that creator did all He could to make this trust a very difficult journey to take -I would argue by design. You refer to the Old Testament for some of your evidence that God is not someone you'd want to share the sandbox with, I see it a bit differently, I see a God who was a jealous God, a God amongst Gods, and one who did not know what it was like to be human. He did not understand why it was for so many not to give faith onto Him. He reacted badly when presented by this.

So now you are trying to argue for the existence of specifically the Judeo-Christian god, when earlier you were simply trying to argue for a "creator". I've already punctured so many holes in this that it is unreal to me you are still arguing that the god of the bible is real. FUCKING UNREAL.

Right here you are already contradicting the basic doctrines of your "faith". You say god is a "god among gods". So you believe in multiple gods? I thought Christians believe in only "the one and only almighty"? Which specific other gods do you believe in? There are tens of thousands of other gods man has invented, do you believe only in some and not others or all of them?

You say god "did not know what it was like to be human" and he "did not understand why it was for so many not to give faith onto him". That would mean that he's not omniscient which is a central tenet of Christianity. How could an omniscient god who knows everything not know why people did not give "faith onto him"? Maybe because he didn't provide any EVIDENCE that he existed? This is absolutely retarded and you know it. You've debunked the Christian god yourself here.

Then came a New Testament, where He decided to find out just what it was to be human, this is where the tide changed, no longer did God stick around directing people in their day-to-day. This is where, I believe, He learned that in order to bring the best of them to him, He would have to give them the choice, He'd have to step out of the picture - and He did. Free choice was given to man as the 'big brother of the sky' decided to change His ways and step back.

LOL No, this is your ridiculous excuse for the fact that god stopped "intervening" precisely when humans gained the ability to investigate claims, report them and record them for posterity. This is asinine. you're like a child who wants desperately to continue to believe in santa clause so he makes some bizarre excuse for the presents he saw hidden under a blanket in his parents closet. The child says, "Maybe santa clause is just working through my parents this year because he's really busy." :roll:

Now all that was left was faith, and that's all He wanted.

What kind of idiot god would only care about people having blind fucking faith in him? This has got to be the most childish deity ever invented. and the people who believe in such a god are even more childish then their fictional deity.

I don't see God as the 'all loving' God you claim I do. I never said that, not 'all' loving, there are some He doesn't.

I don't care how you see god and or peculiar, made up "interpretation". The Christian doctrine is that god has "unconditional love" for his creation. this is obviously false, all you gotta do to disprove that is read the old testament.

I believe He is holding Himself under a lot of restraint and would indeed wipe entire nations on the earth without this restraint. This restraint, I belieive, was learned thru His experience on earth.

How can an all-knowing god "learn" anything? He's supposed to know everything already. You fail.

He knows now that we won't change, so He let us have our way with it, but did give us some guide lines and some warnings, and most of them still hold value today. He's not here for everyone , just everyone that chooses to be with Him. That's my God, and it may not be everyone's but that's the God I hold my faith up for. To ZS, it's the creator, to you it seems to be science.

Why do you hold your faith up for a god that most likely doesn't exist. I've already poked a thousand holes in your god. Yet it all comes down to "faith" with you. Wouldn't you get upset with someone who, after hearing all the undeniable proofs that the holocaust is b.s., said, well, "I just have faith that it happened." Same deal here man.

Babies in heaven? see the supernatural bit, I'm sure he makes that 'just' somehow. Why doesn't He come down and change things, see the freewill and faith bit.

I already debunked the free will thing. You have no evidence of anything supernatural. This is idiotic.

I wonder if you feel the same about Mike Delany's faith?

Obviously, and I hammered that out with him on skype. I think he basically leans more towards atheism than theism but goes along with the C.I. stuff because he has a circle of friends/supporters who are C.I.

My only issue is as it's always been; people's faith, people I consider allies within the confines of Jew-wise forums should not be outright personally insulted. Being called 'fools' and such when I KNOW they have no way of knowing there is not a creator so therefore these actions are hypocritical at best.

You have no way of knowing there are not invisible leprechauns in my shoes. Would you insult someone who said something like that? I wouldn't blame you, because it's stupid and it is the equivalent to what you're saying here. I think I've illustrated who the hypocrites are here, and it's religious folk of your persuasion.

It amazes me in quite the opposite direction;  I'm amazed 'Jew wise' people cannot see this is indeed a battle beyond the mortal world. This is indeed the very battle of good versus evil. They didn't evolve this way, they were created this way.

No, they evolved this way. You are claiming that your god deliberately created jews to torment the world. I cannot put into words how dumb this claim is.

To promote atheism, Darwinism, Marxism you name the 'ism'.  All to detract you from the real game, the one our forefathers knew much more intimately.

Again with this bullshit. Atheism is SIMPLY lacking a belief in deities, THAT'S IT. It has nothing to do with politics. I don't believe in Zeus or Osiris, Horus or Kukulcan. How is promoting disbelief in these gods benefiting Jews? Meanwhile you worship the malevolent Jewish god, Yahweh.

 :crazy:  :crazy:  :crazy:  :crazy:  :crazy:  :crazy:  :crazy:  :crazy:  :crazy:  :crazy:

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

One day, MSMD, you will come to a paradox when your arrive at the realization that your Marxist-Nihilist theory contradicts evolutionary biology. Darwin was a believer in God. His theories support Christianity more than you realize.

[checkitb4uwreckit]

Twas a sad day MSMD got his logic for beginners book.  He thinks he's Carl Sagan now.  :lol:

The Jews use atheism to destroy spirituality among all peoples of faith, particularly Christians because their hatred of Christianity is virulent.  Militant atheists and their aggressive followers are pesudo-skeptical, phony rationalists.  The problem with militant atheists is that they are arrogant and act like they have it all figured out. There are some things we will never know, but to pretend that we've got it all figured out, to assert that there is nothing bigger than ourselves and that our existence is just some chemical accident is pompous. There are many good things that you can take from the teachings of many religions and incorporate into our own philosophies.

And Jews use aleprechaunism to destroy people's faith in leprechaums too. :up: They also are conspiring to destroy people's belief in santa clause and the tooth fairy too. better start believing moe foe!



Jews obviously use atheism to destroy people's belief in Kulkulcan, the mayan wind god also known as the feathered serpent god.


Better start praising Kukulcan Moe Foe, it'll solve the Jewish problem!

Militant atheists and their aggressive followers are pesudo-skeptical, phony rationalists.

Atheists are pseudo skeptical? ROFL. that's why you have failed quote anything i've written thus far and tried to refute it... because you can't. Look at the idiots in here defending BLIND FAITH yet claiming that evolution is "just a belief" at the same time. That's way beyond pseudo-skepticism, that's downright MENTALLY ILL.

The militant atheist community definitely seem part of the anti-Christian agenda.

Anti-Christian agenda? I refute all bullshit religions, Christianity is nothing special. But what's the Christian agenda these days...?

The problem with militant atheists is that they are arrogant and act like they have it all figured out.

The problem with theists is that they are dishonest idiots who have absolutely no evidence for their claims of invisible space gods who telepathically speak to them if they cup their hands together and point them in the direction of the heavens.

You're just another idiot who can't defend the Christian fairy tale using rational arguments so you bring up irrelevant stuff about Jews hating Christianity. Hey, guess what, Jews hate Hitler 1,000,000 times more than Christianity and have convinced the world that he is the embodiment of evil through lies and deceit. Yet, you have nothing good to say about Hitler and haven't adopted National Socialism simply because Jews hate it have you? No, you are a liberal, "anti-racist", pro-immigrant, marxist activist.

[Timothy_Fitzpatrick]

MSMD said:

You're just another idiot who can't defend the Christian fairy tale using rational arguments so you bring up irrelevant stuff about Jews hating Christianity. Hey, guess what, Jews hate Hitler 1,000,000 times more than Christianity and have convinced the world that he is the embodiment of evil through lies and deceit. Yet, you have nothing good to say about Hitler and haven't adopted National Socialism simply because Jews hate it have you? No, you are a liberal, "anti-racist", pro-immigrant, marxist activist.

You see, this is where I disagree with those that defend you, MSMD, and say you can debate with a level head. They attempt to demonstrate this by saying, "at least he is not as bad as Yo_Mama." But the truth is, you are just as bad as him. Personal attacks, ad hominems, and calling people the very things you yourself are guilty of. You call MoeFoe a Marxist! Really? Hah, you expect us to buy this? You are only fooling yourself.

I know it's going to be tough for you, as a Marxist-Freudian-Nihilist, to admit that you have so much more in common with Jews than Christians do, but it is reality. And please, refrain from trying to pretend to be a National Socialist when you aren't. Yo Mama tried to pull that crap awhile back when we asked him about the economic situation in Nazi Germany and he ran from the board with his wittle tail between his legs.

The only reason I can see why you would pretend to be a National Socialist is in an attempt to fend off any suspicion that you are indeed what you appear to be, and that is a Cultural Marxist crypto-Kike.

[Anonymous]

Hopeless ........     :crazy:  :crazy:  :crazy:  :crazy: